boomerangutang

What the country had better start "addressing", as local law enforcement put it, is this (al.com - What we know so far about David Daniels):

"Daniels was never particularly violent, according to Sharon Daniels, his mother. "I've never known him to be violent towards anybody," she said. He was one of her 14 children and grew up in the Alabama Village community in Prichard. But he did become more difficult over the years, she said."[/size]

(emphasis mine)

Without being ethnicist (aka racist), I would bet there were multiple fathers and none of them resident (on paper, at least) in order to ensure maximum welfare payments.

"Without being ethnicist (aka racist), "

That's exactly what you AND your "likers" are.

One look at the photo...he's black, therefore his mother has multiple fathers of her children and for the reason of getting welfare.

Maybe some of your likers didn't even see the photo but made anOTHER assumption.

14 children??? Who the heck does that, especially one living in the Alabama Village community which are the projects. Completely irresponsible to have 14 children when you cannot even get out of the projects.

The we have the shooter. I think local news reported he had 6 arrests and long drug history and he was how old??? No job, no car, high school drop out . . . Maybe stereo types suck, but there is a reason stereotypes exist because some time they are absolutely true.

I think Alabama leads the US in % of federal hand-out money per population. In some communities, over 60% of adults get SSI or similar. Nearly every one who gets federal/state hand-outs are grossly overweight. Mississippi is a close 2nd. In a round-about way, such shootings are related to the immense amounts of sugar (and other junk food) Americans stuff in their mouths. The average American ingests over 50 kg of raw sugar annually. Harvey Milk used the 'Twinky defense' to get off easy for a double murder (with a a handgun) in SF, California. Maybe Daniels will get as good a lawyer as Milk, and get off easy.

Eating too much sugar has also been linked to diminished mental capacity. Look it up.

From the above: The judges don't want to hear what a nobody farang like me has to say ... They probably aren't alone.

my humbleness flew right by you.

And as I said, it is all a moot point because, if the defense had any credible evidence as to the identity of the real perpetrators, they would already have presented it.

Not true. The defense won't show its hand until the trial begins. It's not up to the defense to try and solve the crime, it's primarily up to the RTP with their non-independent investigators. Judging from the thousands of posts, just on T.Visa, the RTP are doing a rotten job of it.

Contrary to what RTP echoers would like to believe, posters like myself don't want to continually find fault with the RTP. When Thai police do something right, I'm one of the first to stand up and say ,"job well done!" Proof of that are letters/comments to the Bangkok's two major Eng.Lang dailies, where several times I've commended the police when they've done a good job on an investigation. There are times when RTP do their jobs well. However, in the KT crime investigation stemming from Sept. 2014, they've failed, and there are repercussions beyond incriminating two boys who are probably innocent, and letting several islanders (who are probably guilty) go free.

From the above: Not true. The defense won't show its hand until the trial begins. If the defense had any real hand to show at the preliminary hearing, they maybe could've prevented the B2 from having to go to trial in the first place.

Not plausible. Remember that leading up to the prelim, the RTP worked hand in glove with the prosecution to hammer out an accusatory scenario. They kept passing the script back and forth until they got what they believed to be an ironclad case against the B2. They wanted B3, because even die-hard shelterers of the H can't believe that two small men could overpower and kill two healthy farang, one of whom was twice the size of either of the fingered perps. However, one of the B3 wasn't sufficiently cowed by the pancake seller and the RTP (shouting threats with fists clenched), so they let the 3rd guy scuttle out the side door. After all those hours and dozens/hundreds of pages of re-written 'evidence' it's very doubtful the judge would have tossed it where it belonged due to something the defense or defendants were to say. It would be going against the same establishment in which the judge is embedded in, and which pays his salary.

The concerted efforts by the RTP and prosecutors are like a 'grand jury' in the US system. A judge isn't going to counter all the efforts of his brethren.

From the above: The judges don't want to hear what a nobody farang like me has to say ... They probably aren't alone.

my humbleness flew right by you.

And as I said, it is all a moot point because, if the defense had any credible evidence as to the identity of the real perpetrators, they would already have presented it.

Not true. The defense won't show its hand until the trial begins. It's not up to the defense to try and solve the crime, it's primarily up to the RTP with their non-independent investigators. Judging from the thousands of posts, just on T.Visa, the RTP are doing a rotten job of it.

Contrary to what RTP echoers would like to believe, posters like myself don't want to continually find fault with the RTP. When Thai police do something right, I'm one of the first to stand up and say ,"job well done!" Proof of that are letters/comments to the Bangkok's two major Eng.Lang dailies, where several times I've commended the police when they've done a good job on an investigation. There are times when RTP do their jobs well. However, in the KT crime investigation stemming from Sept. 2014, they've failed, and there are repercussions beyond incriminating two boys who are probably innocent, and letting several islanders (who are probably guilty) go free.

I quoted from The Telegraph as they were quoting Andy Hall who was in the courtroom. If you feel they have not been reasonably accurate, that is up-to-you.

That rather proves my point. It's like the game of 'telephone' played with kindergardeners: each time the word/phrase/sentence is conveyed from one person to another, it stands a chance of getting twisted and losing some accuracy. The court will have at least 3 different languages (English/Burmese/Thai), and then rely on one or two judges to boil down hours of testimony to one or a few minutes (if they choose to convey anything on any given day). Then the press corps get a-hold of it and bandies around the most sensationalist sound-bites, again with translations to other languages.

The judges don't want to hear what a nobody farang like me has to say, but I'll say it anyway: Get recording devices for all that transpires in court. Video is preferable, but audio would suffice. Get a Thai who is really fluent in English and another who is fluent in Burmese, to translate, at least the highlights of what happens each day in court. When I say 'really fluent' I don't mean your average Thai who teaches English, ....who stumbles along about as well as I stumble along in Thai.

I have a Burmese friend who is fluent in English, even knows much slang and many idioms. He's available.

Also, the judges (and everyone else) are dealing with two defendants, not one. So, to get an answer to a question, he/they may be more accurate by asking the question individually to each defendant.

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11313714/Koh-Tao-murders-suspects-in-killing-of-David-Miller-and-Hannah-Witheridge-say-they-were-framed.html --

“Did you kill them or didn’t you kill them?” the judge asked at one point, according to Mr Hall.

“No, we didn’t,” the men replied.

The judge then urged the two men to reveal any information they had about the murders, Mr Hall added. “You don’t need to be scared. If you know who did it, tell us.”

The men replied that they had been drunk and did not have any information about the crimes.

From the above post: That's about the silliest thing I've read on any of these threads and that's saying something!

Tell it to the Judge.

The above missive is not precise (about what was said in court), but close. The prior poster wasn't commenting directly about the B2's responses to the judge's q's. The poster was commenting in a roundabout way about comments on that exchange. When quoting what transpired in court, let's try to be as reasonably accurate as possible, as each word spoken may have significance. This will become difficult of us (concerned observers) and the press corp, this summer, because we're relying completely upon what the judge(s) chooses to recall, surmise, and share with the public, if he/they choose to share that particular day's testimony. In the 21 century, it's an archaic way to convey vital info, but we have no choice in the matter. The judges set the parameters.

It seems to me if the 2 accused had any credible information as to others who may have been responsible for these crimes, there in Court sitting before a Judge in a preliminary hearing as to whether this whole matter should be brought to full trial proceedings would have been a splendid time to divulge such information. Then maybe there might have been sufficient cause for the Judge to decide that the matter of a full trial was in sufficient doubt.

"it seems to me....." speculating are you? I thought AleG didn't want any speculation, and kept telling everyone to show facts and sources for everything they said.

Yes, we have the benefit of sitting back in our comfy chairs and taking tubs of time deciding what we might say in the same circumstance, facing execution, standing before a Thai judge who represents the entire taxpayer-paid establishment which includes prosecutors, RTP, The Headman, bureaucrats and the power brokers in Bangkok.

On the other side, here's what the defendants represent: Young migrant workers of questionable legality, dirt poor, probably uneducated (though their letters to Aung Saung Suu Chi looked rather well written), lower than the lowest rung of Thai society.

I completely understand their response to the judge's question, given the circumstances. If they lied a bit by saying they don't know anything, that's completely understandable given the lopsided dynamics of the situation.

What's the alternative? Telling what they know at the prelim hearing? There are several reasons why that would not be good for their defense nor good for their well being (they could be killed, for fingering VIP's, for example).

Hopefully, during the trial, they will feel freer to speak their minds.

From the above: I completely understand their response to the judge's question, given the circumstances. Really? -- the circumstances may be that they may have given that response because they genuinely do not know what happened, they may have given that response because they know what happened and resorted to subterfuge because of strategic reasons as to when to divulge such knowledge, or they may have answered that way because they know who committed those crimes : They did it themselves.

And if they have the goods to put the REAL killers behind bars, then most likely the REAL killers know that so what are the REAL killers waiting for to make sure that they never get to sing like canaries?

JLCrab, you may want to remind yourself of the meaning of the word 'speculation.' You layer speculations upon speculations and get a multi-layered sandwich that Dagwood would be impressed by. And you may want to consider a sideline career - writing pulp fiction.

Thanks Eirene for finding that article and reminding us (those of us seeking the unvarnished truth of what really happened) of some items of interest. . . .

Police have held one man, however, identified as Lerpong Suksomboon, an attendant on a speedboat for tourists between Koh Samui and Koh Tao. He was detained after residents alerted police that he was hiding in a cave on Koh Samui - and came out from time to time and asked for food.

Under influence of drugs

Police on Sunday night questioned Lerpong but he appeared to be under the influence of drugs. He reportedly kept saying he did not beat to death the tourists. Police collected samples of his hair and fingernails for DNA tests at the Institute of Forensic Medicine of Police General Hospital.

Police yesterday took two of his friends into custody; one was also high on drugs and the other, identified as Jom, is the driver of a long-tail boat. Police learnt that they had been on Koh Tao on the day of the murder.

Some fishermen fishing off Kanom district in Nakhon Si Thammarat province alerted police that they found a Thai man on a speedboat named "Little Duck" speeding south from Koh Pha Ngan. The man stopped by and asked for directions to Naiprao Island in the district. But he changed direction to Pakpanang district in the same province after his boat encountered a marine police boat on Naiprao beach.

source: Nation newspaper, 8 days after crime

Putting some of those speedboat operators on the stand at the trial could prove to be interesting. However, Nomsod is not a defendant,So the prosecution and judges can bar any appearance by island speedboat drives - by saying they're immaterial - as they don't add anything to incriminating the B2.

Just wonderin': if police start to question a man, and he's too drugged out to give coherent answers, do police then let him go forever? ....or do they come back and question him again, when he's not so drugged-out? Nothing would surprise me about RTP tactics in this case.

There are a zillion sides to every predicament. If airlines start scrutinizing all their flight crew for possible mental problems. ....then some get grounded, the lawsuits will pile up - with crew claiming prejudice ('they're discriminating against me because I'm black/hispanic/ugly/fat {take your choice}....') .

It's a debacle. This time it was a co-pilot. Usually it's a pilot (I also think the Malaysian plane which went missing was pilot suicide/mass-murder). Next time it could be a screwed up steward/stewardess. He/she could go in to the cockpit, mace both pilots, garot them, lock the door, and cause grief to all on board.

It seems to me if the 2 accused had any credible information as to others who may have been responsible for these crimes, there in Court sitting before a Judge in a preliminary hearing as to whether this whole matter should be brought to full trial proceedings would have been a splendid time to divulge such information. Then maybe there might have been sufficient cause for the Judge to decide that the matter of a full trial was in sufficient doubt.

"it seems to me....." speculating are you? I thought AleG didn't want any speculation, and kept telling everyone to show facts and sources for everything they said.

Yes, we have the benefit of sitting back in our comfy chairs and taking tubs of time deciding what we might say in the same circumstance, facing execution, standing before a Thai judge who represents the entire taxpayer-paid establishment which includes prosecutors, RTP, The Headman, bureaucrats and the power brokers in Bangkok.

On the other side, here's what the defendants represent: Young migrant workers of questionable legality, dirt poor, probably uneducated (though their letters to Aung Saung Suu Chi looked rather well written), lower than the lowest rung of Thai society.

I completely understand their response to the judge's question, given the circumstances. If they lied a bit by saying they don't know anything, that's completely understandable given the lopsided dynamics of the situation.

What's the alternative? Telling what they know at the prelim hearing? There are several reasons why that would not be good for their defense nor good for their well being (they could be killed, for fingering VIP's, for example).

Hopefully, during the trial, they will feel freer to speak their minds.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Why do people use social media to tell people not to use social media ?

Same sort of reason top gov't leaders keep telling people they won't tolerate graft while they themselves are taking bribes. Or why fathers harangue their kids not to smoke cigs, while puffing on a cig.

...or why some posters herein tell everyone not to post - out of respect for the victims' families - while they themselves post feverishly.

I haven't read the OP or all the posts. But I can say: NO THAI ADMINISTRATION IS DOING ANYTHING ON THE ENVIRONMENT. They're as bad as Thai corporations. Once in awhile, they make a little mention of something which sounds environmental, but no Thai person in management has a clue about real environmentalism.

Buy condoms and have them dispensed throughout the world, particularly in places where people are causing the most environmental destruction and/or places where people are most miserable. Add a tube-tying clinics for men and women. All free for the asking.

Who would have thought?! .....such dire news from a region which practices the 'religion of peace.'

He should of kicked it down. I know if my fat ass ran at it at full force I'd of gone through the window the other end.

If the plane is thrusting nose down, the centrifugal force would be forcing anyone in the aisle toward the back - away from the cockpit door. ....or at least weightless (like the Vomit Comet). making it hard to get traction to break the door down.

This whole thing is just so sad, the last thing you would expect in a plane crash is a co-pilot crashing it on purpose ! They need to look into other security ways in which a pilot can gain access to the cockpit during an emergency, I have no idea how they would go about it but there needs to be a quick entrance that only the pilot knows about.

Unfortunately, for every safety precaution there's another side. It's actually more often the pilot (not the co-pilot) who becomes a mass-murderer. One prominent example: the Egypt Air disaster over the Atlantic (which Egypt Air still refuses to admit). If there's a way to enter the locked cabin, then terrorists can hold a knife to a stewardess and demand the door be opened - whether from outside or from inside. It's really hard to try to protect against every contingency. There are crazies in this world. If they want to become mass-murderers, they can.

The other side of the coin, which no one has mentioned, is: if there were Kavorkian-type options for assisted suicide, then perhaps crazies like the co-pilot could take his own life without becoming a mass murderer. I'm in favor of volunteer, assisted suicide, with conditions (too many to list here).

30 weeks since the crime. 13 1/2 weeks before the trial begins. Thai justice is re-defining the phrase 'glacial pace.'

Still zilch from the Brits. Even when the verdict is read, Sept 26 (over 1 year since crime), there will likely be appeals. All the while, the defendants are stuck behind bars with no hope for bail. How long do appeals processes take in Thailand? .....years? All the while, most of us posting herein think the wrong people are being held. But not to worry, the Thai PM said the police are doing a great job, doing everything right. "reading from the same book (How To Investigate a Crime) as the British" ...uh uh, great, very comforting. Thanks Mr self-appointed PM, but somehow I don't feel all warm and fuzzy inside, when hearing those words.

So now it's necrophilia as a defense?

I mentioned a possible scenario. I'm not talking about legal strategies.

Your statement would have some credence if it didn't use superlatives like "....know for a fact that..." "...are in no way complicit..."

When I was in jr. High school, there were gals who had a world view something like this: Everything, certainly every boy, was either 'super dreamy' or 'yuksville.' In other words, everything was either excellent or horrible - no middle ground. We don't need to stoop to that level. It's Sunday for Kryssache.

For example, when I discount what the RTP have done in this investigation, I don't assert everything they've done is off-base and unprofessional, .....only some things.

Did you make it past jr. High school? Either the B2 are complicit in these crimes or they are not. I don't see that there is any shade-of-grey in that matter.

"Either the B2 are complicit in these crimes or they are not." You sound like the PM who stated earlier: "if the DNA matches, they must be guilty of the murders."

Again, it's not necessarily a black or white scenario. If the DNA trail is credible (which many doubt) the B2 could have come along after the crime and had sex with a dead body. Even if they had sex with Hannah while she was alive, that doesn't prove murder of one or both victims. I'm not trying to bend over backwards to find the B2 innocent, but instead trying to look at all the evidence - to try and gauge what really happened that awful night. RTP have made too many mistakes thus far for them to be believable. There are many indications showing that the RTP have an agenda different from finding the real culprits.

As for the Brit experts: Most of us were hopeful they would contribute to unraveling the who-dunnit. Thus far, the Brits have been as useful as a tennis racquet to a pigeon.

My non-long-winded point of view: If this thing is a hoax in that those at the top of the Prosecution chain if not top-to-bottom know for a fact that the 2 accused are in no way complicit in the crimes for which they are charged, then I don't think those down in Samui even with direction from Bangkok are good enough to pull that one off given the international attention this trial will receive.

Your statement would have some credence if it didn't use superlatives like "....know for a fact that..." "...are in no way complicit..."

When I was in jr. High school, there were gals who had a world view something like this: Everything, certainly every boy, was either 'super dreamy' or 'yuksville.' In other words, everything was either excellent or horrible - no middle ground. We don't need to stoop to that level. It's Sunday for Kryssache.

For example, when I discount what the RTP have done in this investigation, I don't assert everything they've done is off-base and unprofessional, .....only some things.

with all the focus on the Bali duo, people like this man should not be forgotten.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/my-ghost-will-haunt-you-indonesian-death-row-inmate-to-be-killed-with-bali-nine-duo-speaks-of-injustice-20150309-13z6zi.html

thanks for posting that link. I read the whole article.

Indonesian justice system sure looks decrepit. ...and not just because it criminalizes recreational drug users. It looks rotten from top to bottom.