Traveler19491

Bradinasia,

Disagree with you 100% about drivers in CM being more courteous/polite than US drivers. can't address other countries you stated having no experience or knowledge....

I wonder how much driving you really do in CM?

Tailgating, not letting pedestrians cross the street, when signals go out (watch what happens), people running red lights, blocking intersections, changing lanes without looking or signalling, crossing over to another lane when in an intersection, blocking traffic/double parking to run into a store, passing on curves or double/solid lanes, cutting off cyclists and bicyclists..The list goes on and on...

Thais are just terrible about following regulations b/c they just don't know them and moving enforcement doesn't exist in this country....But understanding courtesy/politeness is different than non-compliance..

I know you can't be serious about courtesy and politeness on the roadways here. I hate bitching about Thais this and that but if there is one thing that bothers me the most - it's their driving..

Maybe you can explain why Thailand has the 2nd highest road fatality rate in the world? Incredibly aggressive driving leads to many accidents which Thailand now has a world famous reputation for...

Now don't get me started on Thai driving...

CB

I have to agree with you 100%. I love living in Thailand, and especially in Chiang Mai, but the one thing that does annoy me is the total lack of driving skills (forget highway courtesy) demonstrated by Thais. Complete lack of attention to what they're doing, straddling lanes, passing on curves/solid lines, changing lanes without looking, emerging from side streets without looking, forcing you out of their way...it's truly pathetic. IMHO, one thing that would ease congestion in CM...enforce driving licenses. Probably half or more of Thais don't even have a license. Start checking, and hit them with a large fine, and you'd soon see 25-35% less traffic, at least until they started getting licenses. Sorry, but Thais just don't have a clue when it comes to driving.

"The country has a lot of problems to be solved but you [media] keep finding fault with me," he said.

Welcome to the responsibility, and headache, of governance, your Worship. Actually, it is the job of the media to "find fault". A free press is the only defense that a free people has against the inevitable power grabs of the political elite. That is why, in the US, we have our First Amendment..."Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". Unfortunately, in the US, the "free" press has, for the most part, been bought by the oligarchs, and so what we US citizens are treated to is an air-brushed, Prozac coated version of the "truth". But, your Worship, the primary job of the media is to hold your feet to the fire. Your job comes with a heavy dose of accountability, and if you don't like it, well...there's always free elections as a way out!

"You shouldn't ask me when the election will be held or when we will leave. What am I?"

Ummmmmm, the guy who is supposed to give Thailand free elections?

"If you think anybody can say anything at all, then the country won't survive," he said.

So your country is so weak that it can be destroyed by...what? Free thought? Free expression? Maybe your personal image of what you think the country should be won't survive. But if history is any judge, most nations that embraced freedom of thought, freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press have managed to do pretty damned good.

The point of criticism is to illuminate perceived weaknesses. A wise leader accepts those criticisms, and has the perception to determine what points may be valid, and what points are not. That leader then uses the valid criticisms to improve their leadership, and embrace changes that will benefit the people. Perhaps it's time to develop a little thicker skin, and put the people before your ego.

Have faith, things are changing with our interim government, maybe not as fast as you would like, but they are changing. Just look at the track record of the achievements in just a few months, and compare it with the track changes of the past governments achievement’s in a few years. Big difference isn’t it?

Having faith is admirable and you seem to feel like that there will be change. So far there is little or no change from this perspective. To justify waiting I feel 6 months there should be radical change or it is all talk and no action. I could write a long list of what could change and the process could start overnight. many posters have mentioned here so many times.

Please explain here 'the track record of achievements in a few months'?

LG, I would generally have to agree with you. I might be willing to grant them a few extra months, due to the lag time of getting things set up and functioning. However, one would expect that by this point we would have seen a few BIG heads on the dung heap by now, and not just those from one side of the fence. Still waiting. And probably will be for the foreseeable future.

I think it is ridiculous that these people have been restricted from working on the beaches - it's part of the appeal. To go to a beach and for there to not be any umbrellas, sun loungers and soft drink vendors is a sad sight, disappointment and inconvenience.

Did you see the video of the scoundrel from the umbrella and lounge chairs abusing a tourist who wanposted to lie on her own beach towel?

Agreed. The principal at issue here is enforcement. The obvious solution would be a compromise that permitted a limited number of vendors the right to do business in a limited space, strictly controlled, with all fees going into the general coffers. However...this is Thailand. Enforcement is non-existent. The only example I need point to is the "regulated" price of lottery tickets. How long did that last?

The article shows the emptiness of any sense of enforcement. The "crackdown" occurs, the guilty parties simply wait a "reasonable" amount of time, then, gradually, it's back to business as usual. Until corruption is vanquished, and Thailand enters the twentieth century (the twenty-first we can only dream about) and actually enforces the laws that exist, the only possibility of improvement excludes compromise, and requires strict adherence to the laws/regulations in place.

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Did I miss something?

I have never heard the defense asking to check the sperm that was found inside Hannah Witheridge.

It is a fact, right??? There is sperm .... so why did I not hear the two Burmese men say: "Hey, that can not be our sperm, check it!"
I suppose that the Thai police did not jerk the men off..... Or found some sperm in a towell in the room of the 2 Burmese men.

Is the British police in possession of this sperm?

Reasonable question (the first one) but little is actually known about the DNA. Which is one reason I want to see a trial.

As for the last question. I doubt that the UK police have it. They probably have the report from Thailand.

There is no variance in DNA in different parts of the body. The DNA in sperm is the same as DNA in the blood, which is the same as DNA from a mouth swab, which is the same as DNA from hair follicles, etc. All the defense team would need from the defendants is a swab from the inside of their mouths to check against what was found in the victim. If the BIB have maintained the DNA properly (a huge assumption), then the forensic team from Myanmar should be able to do their own check.

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But there is no denying there are severe social problems (maybe soon to be seen, depending on the decision of the grand jury) in USA. How do you assess the cost to US society?

Oh my goodness, the shooting of Michael Brown in Aug 14, a black man in a suburb of St Louis, by Darren Wilson a white police officer, and the pending grand jury verdict on whether to indict Wilson or not is an indicator of severe social problems in the U.S. These type things don't happen in other countries?

Yes, these types of things do happen in other countries. However, with conservative media (Faux News) consistently insisting that racism is dead in America, the shooting of Michael Brown, as well as numerous other deaths of black men caused by white police officers (Eric Garner, Oscar Grant, Wendell Allen, Timothy Russell, and many, many others), serve to point out the fact is that racism is alive and well. New evidence has just emerged showing that both the police departments of Ferguson and St. Louis have been lying about how far Brown was from Wilson when Wilson opened fire. The police have consistently asserted that Brown was 35 feet away, but new evidence shows that he was 148 feet away, as well as the fact that Anonymous has discovered that Wilson's girlfriend, and fellow officer of the Ferguson PD, has close ties to the KKK, which necessarily brings into question Wilson's own position on race. Midas's question was directed at the intangible costs of these types of social problems on the American economy and society. While those intangible costs may be incapable of being measured, and therefore not necessarily germane to the topic, your dismissal of his question was churlish at best, and, in itself not germane.

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ROFLMAO Idiots for cops I would have held pending valid proof of purchase. Now these guys will get away with theft, transportation of body parts, without proper doc's Falsifying Shipping paperwork. And that just Federal level then you got Nevada laws to deal with No import permit. These guys are in Deep chit. But wave a few baht under a cops nose and wham bam your out of here. alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20> Explain that one flat foot. alt=whistling.gif>

"And that just Federal level then you got Nevada laws to deal with No import permit. These guys are in Deep chit. But wave a few baht under a cops nose and wham bam your out of here."

What does (imagined) US Federal law or the law in Nevada have to do with anything the police in Thailand do. The parts were, rightly or wrongly, considered medical display items and it wasn't until the hospital said the parts had been stolen that there was any justification found to arrest them.

As disgusting as it may be, most colleges and museums (and circus sideshows) have pickled bodied parts or stillborn infants on display.

Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigators are now trying to determine whether any laws were broken ...

The FBI is looking to see if any laws were broken, but you've already got ahead of them with a string of US federal and state violations, even though the parcels apparently never got anywhere near the US.

Not defending the two idiots or that anyone would find body parts something entertaining to look at, but being stupid or ghoulish is not against the law and there's no evidence the body parts were originally obtained illegally.

If they were stolen from the hospital and these two bought stolen goods and attempted to (most likely) violate export laws, that may or may not warrant them being arrested, but can you imagine all the hyperbolic comments here at TV if these two were jailed while the police tried to find a reason to charge them and they would most likely have been eligible to be bailed out anyway?

Idiots they may be, but this doesn't qualify as some major international incident nor is there any reason (aside from your highly excitable imagination) to believe they bribed anyone when they had not been charged with anything.

Whether the body parts were obtained here legally or not is no concern to the FBI. Trade, of any kind, in human tissue is illegal in the US. And the thing with US law is that, regardless of where in the world I am, if I violate a US law, as a US citizen I am liable for that action as if I had committed it within US borders. Just ask the many US chaps who have sojourned to other parts of the globe to have sex with underage children, only to find themselves charged with sex crimes upon return to the US. If I should decide to have sex with a sixteen year old girl here in Thailand, even though it is legal here because she isn't a prostitute, when I get back to the US I can be charged with a sex crime, and rightfully so. So these chaps, if found by the FBI to have violated US Federal law, will eventually be having some rather long, rather uncomfortable conversations with FBI agents and/or Federal prosecutors, most likely accompanied by their attorneys.

I'm sure the drunk nice man was just sitting there being very quiet and respectful to the officers.

That mean macho officer should have gone on a coffee break and let the family of the school girl he injured, and the owners of the 6 cars he hit, all have a nice conversation with the gentleman. I'm sure they could have worked something out.

There are several problems with your post. While it is true that, apparently, the "drunk nice man" resisted arrest, and in that case the use of force by the officers is both warranted and legal, once the subject has been subdued (as he was in this case) both the need for, and use of, force is no longer either warranted or legal. One of the problems that both Thais and the BIB seem to have is an understanding that the police are supposed to be the face of the law to the public. Due to the power that they wield, they are, and rightly should be, held to a higher standard. This officer's inability to control his emotions shows a lack of character and trustworthiness on his part. Someone else has noted that in many other countries this officer's action could result in the release of the subject. In most of the first world countries, this officer's actions would net a law suit for brutality against both him and the police force. What you fail to grasp is that, in this day of social media, video clips like this are seen around the world in a matter of hours after being posted on line. Visions of police officers brutalizing handcuffed suspects does not really do a lot to inspire foreigners to want to spend their hard earned money on vacation time in such a "lovely" place.

Your assertion that "...they could have worked something out" is pretty lame. The subject had already been arrested, was going to be transported to jail, and the job of the police was finished. In any truly "civilized" society the judicial system has layers of responsibility, and once one layer has completed its job, the next layer takes over. Here, the police had finished their job; it was now time for the prosecutor and the court to take over. Punishment is to be meted out by the court...NOT THE POLICE. You really want some guy with a gun on his hip and a baton in his hand to decide whether or not you (or a family member, friend) should be punished...and how severely?

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Don't understand why theses people are allowed to walk the streets on Sukhamvit just to sell drugs? I know they pay off the police. The new PM should send them all back to Africa and stop letting them in. Most western people do come to Thailand to make a honest living. Send them back to Africa!

You mentioned Africa 3 times within your 2 lines or slur. I'm just hoping that this for lack of eloquence rather than racism. Though I'm not from that continent, I would feel offended if I were. Not everyone from Africa sells drugs, mind you!

Be offended then, the truth of the matter is that Nigerians that come to Thailand are criminals.

So you're saying that this is true with 100% of Nigerians? Mind if I ask to see the documentation to back up that claim? Just curious. I'm sure you're not a racist.

I spotted an interesting article in Thai Rath over the week end, the gist of which I summarize below for the benefit of those who cannot read Thai.

"After the Koh Tao murders a crazy conspiracy developed with a view to making Thai people bitterly hate Thai police. They have repeatedly incited their friends to believe that Thai police looked for Burmese scapegoats to get forced confessions. After the dust had settled and the social media idiots all returned to America, it turned out after 3 DNA tests that the police were right.

Scotland Yard and the British Ambassador, who spent a long time engrossed in the case, asked to see all the details of the DNA tests of 300 people on Koh Tao and the taking of samples. All the Scotland Yard aunties and the British ambassador were so impressed that they asked the Thai police to come to the UK to train their own police. Even more important than the praise heaped on Thai police by the Brits was their admission that the Thai police used more advanced equipment and techniques in the investigation than their own.

Once the imaginative fantasies are over, hopefully people will stop criticizing Thai police."

The fantasies involved in this article are almost too numerous to list. 1) "...developed with a view to making Thai people bitterly hate the Thai police." Say WHAT??? The RTP do a dandy job of that all by themselves without having to turn to conspiracy theorists. 2) "...Thai police looked for Burmese scapegoats to get forced confessions." The Thai police would have been more than happy to force a "confession" out of, and hang it on, any non-Thai person. They had to find someone, and quick, before the news spread too far about this tragedy that was bound to effect tourism. Unfortunately the RTP didn't take into account the fact that there are those on social media who are capable of thinking for themselves, and not always willing to buy into the latest Thai governmental BS, and almost immediately started pointing out the failures of the RTP in their reportedly botched "investigation" techniques. 3) "After...the social media idiots all returned to America...". SURPRISE!!! Most of those "social media idiots" are living right here in the Land of Smiles! 4) "All...were so impressed...that they asked the Thai police to come to the UK to train their own police." Did they ask the same Thai police geniuses to bring some of those new bomb sniffing boxes with them? 5) "Even more important than the praise heaped on the Thai police by the Brits...". Anyone got a link to an article...ANY article...about all this "praise". Seems if this had transpired that, at least, The Nation, or the Bangkok Post would have had something, somewhere about it. 6) "...their admission that the Thai police used more advanced equipment and techniques in the investigation than their own." Apparently the Thai police have more recent DVD's of the latest season of CSI.

Interesting that their were no cites of articles or quotes of Thai authorities included in the article. Methinks the PM would have been all over such praise. My personal assessment of this "insightful" article"?.....................

Prayuth is the one and only that returns happiness to all thais.

I'm so sorry, but the Prime Minister can not see you at the moment. He's being fitted for his halo. Can I get you another glass of Kool Aid?

Perhaps Khun Tulsathit could find a nice hobby to occupy his obvious spare time, making fried rice or knitting or similar,

Ah, yes...mustn't have any criticism of, or sound advice offered to, his holiness the PM, must we?

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These boat people have no visa to enter thailand, so it is only correct to refuse their entry.

Deport the lot of them or more will follow, send them to an Islamic state where they will fit in.

What on earth are you two on about?

They were en-route to Malaysia when THE THAIS plucked them from the water and detained them.

Now they want to float them back out to sea and the UN have warned them not to.

I find it totally absurd that you two IMMIGRANTS feel you have the right to voice an opinion on Thai immigration.

Despicable. and inhumane that you both are.

I find it totally absurd that you should comment on anything

So he objects to the lack of compassion from two individuals who, most likely similar to you, are probably sitting in their air conditioned apartments, sipping a beer after a full meal, their (and your) biggest worry being "what am I going to do tonight", and you find it absurd that he should comment? I find it absurd that you, and all of the other dispassionate trolls on here, are wasting space on this planet. But I don't worry about it too much...karma's a bitch.

It may, in fact, turn out that the British police attempt to gloss over the seeming ineptitude of the RTP in this investigation. However, I'm not so sure that this mess will then slip into oblivion, as the Thai government so desperately wishes. Should the Brits try to whitewash their findings, you can expect the victims parents to howl bloody murder, and rightly so. Let's just hope, for the sake of justice, and for the lives of the two Burmese, that this doesn't end up being swept under the rug.

Good point, Blues. In Malaysia the religious police forbid unmarried couples from holding hands etc, and many, including myself view this as too conservative. So, where do we 'draw the line', should the public learn to accept others expression or should we shun the evolution of social behaviour and wear black on Sundays......

The unfortunate fact is that many countries, my home country of the US included, have allowed extreme religiosity to inform their cultural values. I have zero problem with anyone having, and exercising, their own religious beliefs. Where I draw the line is when others want to force their religious or moral values on me, or anyone else. The thing about culture is that it is constantly evolving, or at least it should be if the culture is to adapt and be accepted by the rest of the world, and not result in a country being ostracized by the global community. What was the norm a generation ago is not going to be the norm a generation from now. This is naturally uncomfortable for those who derive their "security" from the status quo. I still remember being derided and "advised" that I should "Get a haircut" when I was young. Seems I was a "filthy, disgusting hippy"...and I took a bath every day, wore clean clothes, and even brushed my teeth, lol! My two cents? If it makes you uncomfortable, but it's not illegal...don't look. Just go back to doing something that's actually constructive...like playing "Candy Crush Saga". And even if it is illegal, depending on the activity, maybe it's time to reassess our values, especially if that activity isn't harming you, or anyone else.

"A former director-general of a government agency was recently moved to an inactive post at the Prime Minister's office after being found to be involved in this problem." So not only does he maintain his salary and perks, but he gets to impress his family and friends by mentioning that he now works with the PM???

I'm sorry, but F*** this "inactive post" sh*t, and F*** this "saving face" sh*t. The "saving face" crap is the principal reason that Thailand is in the dung house it's in now. Until the Thai nation is willing to leave the 18th century and enter the 21st (granted, a bit of a culture shock), this beautiful country, and it's wonderful culture (with a few notable exceptions, like the aforementioned concept of "face") will never begin to realize its potential. Thailand, with its incredible natural resources, and it's hitherto untapped human potential, has the incredible opportunity to soar to amazing heights, but is consistently held back by its feudal mentality. When are these wonderful people going to wake up and recognize that they are being continually abused by their "leadership"?

Several posters have mentioned sanctions by the US and EU. I have to agree that it is going to take some drastic action from outside of Thailand before anything meaningful is going to happen with regard to human trafficking. There's just too much money involved, and too many corrupt government officials profiting handsomely from this activity for any real solutions to ever be brought into action. Thailand is going to have to hurt, and hurt seriously before anyone does anything that will actually make a difference. So I would urge the US and EU to immediately invoke draconian sanctions against Thai exports, and not just in the fishing industry, but across the board. Thai officialdom has revealed itself to be more than happy to drag its feet for indefinite periods, hoping that whatever the current issue is will simply lose its popularity and then fade away (think Koh Tao), which has, unfortunately, worked pretty successfully for them in the past. Sanctions should not be phased in, but be drastic, be enacted quickly, and be targeted so as to hurt those at the top as quickly as possible. Hit their pocketbooks, hit them hard, and something will get done. Until then...business as usual. And more slaves are snared, lives destroyed, and people dying.

Burmese have no right to order Thais around.

Burmese is not the father of Thais.

In fact, some Thai fathers I saw in movies riding elephants and bit the shit out of Burmese in many ancient battle field.

Read the post again. The Burmese did not try to "order Thais around". The embassy of Myanmar is ASKING Thailand to reinvestigate. And if you're relying on the movies for your history lessons...well, I guess that says all we need to know about your intellectual level.

The plot thickens .... Maybe a movie in the future ?

It'll have to be a comedy. Wonder if they can get Adam Sandler or Will Ferrell to play the Chief of Police?

I wonder why she refused to give her name, and declined to make a complaint.

I was thinking that myself.

I can understand not giving her name because of possible reprisals. But to not press charges??

Does she even realise that had this piece of trash managed to overpower her, he would certainly not have left her alive to tell the story.

Her refusal to press charges against this scum, keeps him on the streets to do it again and again till he is finally caught.

This woman is part of the problem. It should not be up to her to make the decision whether or not this crime is investigated.... Well it won't be investigated now, thanks to her.

What you say regarding the fact that the douchebag will remain free, and a threat to other women, is absolutely true. However, what you're not taking into account is the fact that the victim, if she pressed charges and the cretin was captured, would then be paraded in front of the media, and her life turned upside down. The rapist's lawyer would probably attack her, saying that his poor client was lured on by her skimpy jogging shorts and top, and that it was her "suggestive" attire that "compelled" him to assault her. So she would be made out, in public, to be the farang slut who lured the poor, misunderstood, but morally superior Thai man who is really the victim. And that's not considering the potential for reprisals from his family and friends, and the stigma that would dog her for as long as she lives. No, the woman is NOT part of the problem. It is precisely the attitude that suggests that women contribute to the problem of rape that allows it to continue. There need to be anonymity laws in place to protect the victim, banning the media and defense counsel from revealing their identity, and allowing them to report and charge the attacker in a case of rape, without having their lives further shattered. Under age felons have their identities protected so as to shield their future lives from consequence. Why shouldn't rape victims? Enact laws to protect the victim and you will see reported rape cases increase substantially.

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Strange responses by foreigners that think they kniw what Thai people want.
Corruption is not taking perks of the job or paying off a cop to save you picking up your license at the station.
That is corrupion that benefits all. Corruption he refers to is that which harms the country as a whole.
Thai people WANT corruption no 1.

As for getting off with a crime - if your child did something wrong that could ruin his/her life, would you act legally or do sonething to save their life. No point criticising if you would adhere to corrupt activities.

If you are Thai then it is a perfect illustration of the failings of the education system. If you are not Thai then you must be a troll.

how racist can you get? The 2hile Thai nation is uneducated acc. To you. Pathetic.

Actually, I would have to say that YOU, Johnniey, are the troll. albeit borderline. The fact that a farang has the "audacity" to point to the failings of the Thai educational system is not racist, it is one person's opinion of your system...an opinion that is, unfortunately, shared by many. Whatawonderfulday was NOT saying that the "2hile" (maybe you meant "whole"? Not that that would be indicative of the failings of the educational system...the fact that you can't spell?) Thai nation is uneducated. Just that the educational system needs reform and improvement. And if you actually believe that it is OK for anyone to attempt to manipulate the legal system to get their relative free of a murder charge, then perhaps you need some additional education in morality, compassion, human decency, and ethics. Also, to voice the moronic opinion that "Thai people WANT corruption" is a pathetic evaluation of your own people, and a condemnation of your own country, out of your own mouth. I, as a farang, happen to have a higher opinion of the morals and ethics of Thai people than you apparently do. I do not think that Thai people WANT corruption. I think they want a system that treats them fairly, that does not yield to corruption on anyone's part, at ANY level, and that does not allow money or position to exclude anyone from justice. Your attitude, my "friend", is a pathetic example of the attitude that has held Thailand back for so long, and that desperately needs to be expunged. OBTW...from the Merriam Webster dictionary of the English language: "corruption: dishonest or illegal behavior, especially by powerful people (such as government officials or POLICE OFFICERS [emphasis mine])." You might want to invest in an English language dictionary and refer to it before attempting to lecture native speakers on the meaning of a word. And just for your added information...corruption does NOT benefit all. It HARMS all by corrupting the nation's morals, and destroying its reputation, as corruption has done to Thailand. Justice denied to one, regardless of how small an instance, is justice denied to all.

Yes, good idea, Mr. Prime Minister. Watch out for that corruption, and as soon as you spot it, do the patriotic thing and report it, for the good of the country, and your fellow Thais. Then grab a beer, find a comfortable chair, and wait for the BIB to show up at your door with the papers concerning the defamation lawsuit leveled against you. If the good PM is serious about eliminating corruption, and finding ways to get the country back on its feet, then repealing the ridiculous defamation laws should be item number one on his "to do" list.