SooKee

I'm not buying into the "Phuket versus Vietnam" debate, however there are some very good points in this post, most of which I agree with.

Likewise re not buying in to the Phuket vs Vietnam debate. Primarily because, fascinating though all the information might be, the topic of this thread is 'Patong is dead'. Not Phuket vs Vietnam.

Wow, this sure went down the tubes fast. Kinda funny that someone who bemoans the thread being too Bangla-centric (albeit those posts WERE actually on topic) goes on to criticise people about their, and their friends, choices of where to spend a night out, flings around a few insults, and sets about giving everyone his warped, flawed and stereotypical view of everyone that goes to a beer bar in Phuket. Bizarre.

"Wow, this sure went down the tubes fast." - there have been some recent posts containg personal attacks, however, the majority of posts in this long thread have been well discussed.

Unfortunately, all we can do is sit back and watch Phuket's sad transformation, as officials do absolutely nothing to stop Phuket's rapid economic decline.

Yup, I wasn't refererring to the majority of posts. I was referring to since my last visit, since when, it went downhill (and off topic) - fast.

Agreed about Phuket, for sure. It'll be interesting to watch how this year's (not so?) high-season unfolds.

Wow, this sure went down the tubes fast. Kinda funny that someone who bemoans the thread being too Bangla-centric (albeit those posts WERE actually on topic) goes on to criticise people about their, and their friends, choices of where to spend a night out, flings around a few insults, and sets about giving everyone his warped, flawed and stereotypical view of everyone that goes to a beer bar in Phuket. Bizarre.

On the subject of there being more to Patong than Bangla. Geographically, sure there is. But it sure as hell ain't the reason that anyone that visits Patong goes or stays there. Other than for restaurants, the bars in the suburbs will never be anything more than temporary attractions, dull as dishwater, devoid of customers and zero atmosphere. The bars along Nanai are mostly dead and with the closures over the years are too far apart now so when you DO go there and (inevitably) find it's crap it's time to move on to the next crap bar either by tuk-tuk or on foot. If there's one you find that has a few customers in you can even have a chat for a while, in between shielding your ears from the street-kid motorbikes ripping up the road 10 feet from your stool. Eventually they give up and head towards Bangla. Sure there's the odd bar that might get a cluster of a few guys or a couple of guys with TG's, perhaps having a quiet night out or grabbing a few 80 baht beers before heading to the pricier joints in Bangla. But as going concern that are seen an an integral part of Patong nightlife - no way. And, errr, this thread IS about Patong. Not Phuket Town or 'where do all the nice Thai girls go' or the Janet and John series 'back of a matchbox guide to the mind of a prostitute'. The reason I guess most posts will focus on Bangla is that for most people visiting Patong that's all there is. Bangla would still exist without ANY of the bars in the suburbs, would they even be able to survive without Bangla? I don't think so. And the bars that make up OTOP and the cluster (the name of which I never remember, largely because I've never had cause to) opposite Absolute at the top end of the beach road - same same. Never more than 30% full, maybe catching a few stragglers for an afternoon session but nothing to offer at night IMO unless just chilling and avoiding Bangla, but to do that I wouldn't go to a (failed) 'copy, cut, paste' version of the same thing.

As to 'nice Thai girls wouldn't be seen dead in a beer bar'. Absolute total and utter crap! Ever heard of Thai tourists? I know quite a lot of Thais from all over, several of them very hi-so indeed. They have friends in Patong who own hotels, restaurants and bars and yes, they come to Patong, visit them, and are gracious enough to go to their bars with them and socialise. Provided said tourist is not seen as a complete tool they'll even say hi, chat, smile and have a drink. Why, because they are nice people, confident, pleasant, just enjoying their night out. I'm sure they'd be devastated that they wouldn't be seen as 'nice Thai girls' simply because they don't find the narrow-minded and fundamentally flawed stereotypical profile of one twisted individual's view of the world and 'all things Thai'.

In a hopefully not doomed attempt to TRY and get this post back on topic (which entails, for me at least, adding a couple to the 'ignore' list), I did go to the opening night at Tao on Friday last week. It was open the night before but that was just for systems testing. Went with a small group and was with the owner and his girlfriend there most of the night, in between them flitting around to take care of other invited guests. Overall it was an enjoyable night and a nice venue. As has been mentioned the place is not overly big, a large bar near the entrance takes up quite some space. It's also very nicely decorated. Custom throughout the night changed, singlet clad bogans tended not to hand around long, a few groups of Indians plus a couple of tables of 1 beer per hour Chinese. There was about 30-40% Thais too, but I guess by default they mustn't have been nice Thais, they seemed OK to me though, but I did forget to hand them the 'Are you qualified as a nice Thai' questionnaire.

There was a live band from 8 until about 12. Pretty good most of the time, have to say though I get really tired of the 'old rock classics' that get peddled out by these bands in EVERY bar EVERY time they play. Some songs were even played twice!! I think the band is normally scheduled to end about 11 but maybe they were playing later because of the opening. By 12 though I'd had enough of them. Thankfully the music wasn't too loud and the base wasn't dialled up to vibrate your diaphragm. Too loud to talk much though.

After 12 it was down to the DJ(s). Quite a good range of music, again with volume, base and treble balanced quite well. Too loud to talk but not headache inducing. Once the DJ started there were a number of tastefully attired dancers on the stage, dance floor and on a raised gantry providing some eye-candy. There were also about 25 hostess / PR type girls around all night, mostly from out of town I gather. I'm not sure if that was just for the opening night or if they'll be around in the same numbers after. There was also a just about enough waitresses to keep the drinks flowing. The place does have a nice ambience to it, aided by what I would consider to be one of the best lighting set-ups in Patong. It's a bit on the pricey side though, it's different but it's not THAT different and, while I'm happy to pay it, I'm not sure everyone will think that beers like SML at 180 and Leo at 150 provides enough VFM.

I hope Tao does well, I guess time will tell, if it DOES get crazy popular it might get a bit cramped in there in high season but it's a welcome enough change for me to the rest of what has become the current state of Soi Blandla.

In the daytime, Givenchy Gentleman, and in the evening, Dunhill Edition.

I used to really like Dunhill Edition, bought some recently though and it seems to have REALLY changed. Not a patch on what it was before.

I have been to Taipan a few times in the past and in general had some good fun, however the last few visits I've found to be devoid of tasty talent, so IMO you were lucky to find some good looking girls there..............just a few weeks ago an American friend of mine asked if I had seen the movie "Planet of the Apes" and I said that I had, why did he ask, and his reply was, "well the last few times I've been Taipan, the women have been a lot like that", so I went again a couple of nights later and encountered that very same thing, purposefully avoiding the gaze of a small table of them as one of them seemed to be making a move over to the table I was at with a friend, before scurrying out of the place!

Can't comment on the other places because my only Hollywood visit was a few years ago and I found it to be claustrophobic, with a big bass sound which literally interfered with the beating of my heart and bloody nearly kicked my heart out of rhythm!!! Rock city was okay and Banana Disco in the old days was where one went to pick up the "better class" of girls (yeah right) and of course Tiger disco in the old days was the place to go although that became passé after a while.

I remember a few visits when people were crammed in so badly that you could only stand upright with your drink in your hand and couldn't move anywhere, let alone speak to anybody or even see anybody across the dark expanse, and even if you could it was damn near impossible to get to them. Some of the more experienced guys used to sit outside of the disco having a beer and endeavoured to pick up some of the better looking girls who were leaving the place, and had great success I may add.

So at 68 I leave the discos alone and just go out for pure enjoyment, and occasionally visit new bars I haven't been to in the past........and of course to sing a few songs and wallow in the appreciative applause from the scant audience!

Yeah, with Taipan, in all honesty I couldn't really say that the (somewhat) better standard of the girls is now the norm as I don't go there enough. I've just been there a few times recently as I've had visitors here who know people that work late and who don't finish until 2-3 am so it rather cuts down the choices of where to go. In that regard I'd still rather go to Taipan than the Bangla discos and on the occasions I went I was pleasantly surprised by the greater proportion of attractive and, shall we say, not unattractive, girls in there. More mature of in the main, aside from the orange clad Taipan dancers (some of whom being quite game for some fun), but then I prefer that maturity to the teeny propelling pencils gracing many of the coyote bars. It may be though that the times we went we just got lucky.

Tiger disco for me is the worst of the lot. Awful layout with only a very small floor area affording a view of the raised centre dance floor, stand elsewhere and you invariably have a damn great pillar stuck in front of you and of course there's the music, with everywhere seeming to play the same rubbish that we jokingly refer to as "Bangla Hits - The F&%$ed Up Mix: 50 tracks they said should never be remixed and certainly not like this". The DJs (and I use the term loosely) here seem to not realise that there's more to mixing than blending in a booming 140 BPM (and it's ALWAYS the same one!!!!) backing track. Always seems to me that they are out to see who can make the tables vibrate the most rather than trying (or even being able) to create a vibe that encourages and is conducive to dancing. The so called VIP areas are also laughable, generally being just a few sofa's, raised and out of the action with even less atmosphere than the rest of the place with a 1,000 plus baht added on the the price of a bottle to buy you that 'luxury'. OK (just!) I suppose if you go with a big group and want some floor area but there are other places I'd chose for a night out like that, not Bangla discos.

Even more credit to you PoP if you 56...

I lived that life for quite a few years. Back then it was Tiger Disco, Taipan and before that Shark Club and Banana...a simpler time.

In my 30's going to bed at 4am and getting up at 2pm seemed normal. Riding the bike down to No. 6 restaurant for breaklunchdinner before it was popular and you could always get a table, and seeing the girls from the night before...often still dressed like the night before. A mixed fruit shake and a few Panadol was the normal heart starter.

Does Banana even happen these days? It always seemed to attract a good bit of biffo late in the evening. No idea why.

I was banned from Tiger by Pia. Long story.

Before Hollwood, that place was a cool pool bar with a ever changing Go-Go, disco, club at the back. It actually had some good phases, but the Management couldn't seem to get it right and eventually Khun Ut's family lost or sold the club to what became Hollywood. I never really liked it after that. Felt too much like a "look at me" place, and unless you were with a group, it was not a lot of fun. The clubs also became later and later...or I got older...probably both. That did seem to usher the change from attractive girls from the beer bars moving to freelance at the emerging clubs...beer bars went downhill fast.

I did always enjoy taking first timers to Soi Crocodile...some of them worked it out, some were so blitzed on Bacardi Breezers they didn't. Haven't been there in a long time either. The last time seemed very aggressive and unpleasant.

Keep up the posts when you go out...loving them.

Yah, Number 6 has gone really downhill in the last couple of years, ever since it became a tour bus stopover. It was good before that, but even then, not good enough to warrant queuing in the street for a table, I mean jeez!! Quality of the food has nose-dived too.

Crocodile much the same now, very pushy. Fewer punters seem to bother going down it now, tending instead to congregate at the mouth of the soi and watch for a few minutes before moving on.

None of the clubs really do it for me here. They're all somewhat devoid of atmosphere, even when busy, and only Illuzion gets busy at the moment. I guess it's the standard 'cheap as chips' interior design, concrete floors and metal tables, walls painted black and crap lights, heck even the Dannok clubs near the Malaysian border have better light-shows, and I mean MUCH MUCH better. Agree about the migration of talent from the beer bars to freelancing at the discos too. In hindsight I guess that really helped kill much by way of interest in Bangla for folks, outside of the coyote bars. These days Sansabai and the surrounding sois get busy about midnight to 1am as the freelancers pour into Bangla to hit the clubs, making most of the beer bars about as interesting as watching a plank warp IMHO.

My memory may be fading but I also don't recall Bangla being QUITE so inundated with pushy katoeys after 2-3 am as it is now, they were always there of course but now it's like the floodgates opened or something. People I know that come here and who stay at the hotels in the sois opposite Christine Massage always complain about being hassled by ladyboys on the way home, with groups of 3-4 sat around in massage parlour doorways getting slammed on 285, the further out from Bangla you get, the more they seem to overlook the 'lady' component of 'ladyboy' by all accounts. Not a pretty sight and not a pleasant experience as you walk home munching the now ubiquitous kebab.

Ok thanks for the explanation. Your Thai friend likes to celebrate with HER friends at a venue that plays bad music, has expensive drinks, and late in the evening fills with hiphopslims.

In all honesty, initially I thought your comment really, REALLY didn't even warrant a reply. Your point being what exactly? Or are you just going out of your way to be antagonistic? But I guess there's always one. Some people are just too concerned with what OTHERS do, and trying to make smart #ss comments about it, rather than minding their own business and getting on with leading THEIR OWN lives.

She had her reasons for holding her celebration there but I guess she would feel as compelled to explain them to you about as much as I do, which is not in the slightest. I guess my Thai friends are rather like me in that regard, they care only about what the people they are close to think and don't give much of a monkeys about the opinions of others, and certainly not random anonymous internet personas. I imagine she'd be totally devastated if she knew about it - or maybe she wouldn't give a st! Yah, thinking about it, she'd be the same as me in this regard too, it'd be the latter. Have a good day.

Pop. I dont understand you. Why go to Hollywood to socialize with Thai girls friends. You already said that they were not interested in the Arab and Leb hip hop boys. Of course cool girls can see right though the coooool and know that they are broke. Why not arrange for your girls to met up with you at a Thai venue in Phuket town. No Lebs and Arabs and you can bring your own bottle and just pay for mixers. You can't use the excuse that you go to Hollywood to "People Watch" because, by your on admission, the place was empty except for hiphopslims.

Ummm, this might come across as overly harsh BUT....I don't understand you to be honest. I post these updates here to update the state of Bangla, not to split hairs and enter into a debate with people I don't know over the choices I make over where I go. What the heck does it even matter to you why I go there?? You don't need to understand, I don't care whether you do or don't, no need to justify what I do to anyone and I've lived here enough to know all the options in terms of where to socialise, with who, how and when. Thankfully though, I do what I want, not what others think I should do. I'm a bit of a traditionalist in that regard.

If you felt the NEED to understand I guess the giveaway would be in the first two lines of the post, it's called attention to detail! In this case it was a friend of mine having HER celebration with HER friends at the venue of HER choosing. Not my place to dictate where she goes just so it suits me, but then, maybe others are more selfish,what makes you think I need ANY excuse to go there? My life, my choice, end of. Feel free to understand or otherwise.

PoP, you are like the TripAdvisor of Phuket nightlife.

Great post again.

555. Thanks. Posted it really as I had heard that Hollywood was dead but had not been to actually see for myself(now remedied) and couple of folks were asking about Taipan. Also thought the 'Tao' and 'Tazmania' updates might be of interest in terms of new places opening soon and offering something (hopefully) at least a BIT different.

Have to watch my computer's bleedin' auto-correct like a hawk though (e.g. face replacing phase!). Think I'll turn it off, I swear I spend more time correcting ITS screw-ups than it saves me time in making correct corrections. Auto-correct is a ducking piece of ship!!!!! 555

Really enjoy your posts.

I lived there 7 years, so its good to hear what's going on, the changes - good and bad, and get a first person perspective on different places.

Good to hear Bob is still doing good with Taipan. Still throwing out stuffed toys, money and T-shirts to the screaming girls and yelling out "You guuuyyyyyyssss"?

Doubt I could do a 6am close anymore. You hit your 40's and recovery times get harder...but happy to live vicariously through you.

Keep them posts coming when you can.

Thanks. "You hit your 40's and recovery times get harder.." Tell me about it! I'm 56 55555. Been burning the candle both ends waaaaaay too long, too many years playing guitar, bumming around with bands and performing artistes while trying to find time to work (thankfully the dreaded W word is behind me now) so I guess the juvenile behaviour has become somewhat hard-wired 5555, only here once eh!!!

I've not been to Taipan enough to know if the throw-arounds are still happening, though I do remember them. Certainly nothing like that when I've been the last couple of times well before closing time. I guess hard times are biting all round, or I just picked a couple of random nights when it didn't happen. The crowd is actually quite good in Taipan now, better than it was I think. Those looking for non-scene girls / freelancers will find a lot to chose from now IMO, with a variety of styles across all age groups. Last time I was there I was with a chum of mine who's a bass player (they always seem to be ultra cool guys - Thai guy in his 40s) and got talking to bunch of 5-6 stunning, and I MEAN stunning, girls visiting from BKK for a few days. Bank tellers, air-crew and nurses from memory. "Girls just wanna have fun" types, who were also bemused by the dark glasses / caps backward brigade 5555. They were fobbing them off with 'sorry no speak English'. The ability to speak Thai has its bonuses I suppose when you pick up and that kind of vibe being sent out. Actually 4 of them spoke great English, I guess they just thought the readings on the 'twatometer' were too high for the droids trying to hit on them. Ended up playing pool with them at Chang. Hit the one with a challenge, real real party fun girl, you win, you go hotel, You lose........ "Ok ka". She lost, good to her word too 555. Now THAT was a good night. 9am finish that day, or finish drinking at least. Happy days Trip to BKK coming up soon

PoP, you are like the TripAdvisor of Phuket nightlife.

Great post again.

555. Thanks. Posted it really as I had heard that Hollywood was dead but had not been to actually see for myself(now remedied) and couple of folks were asking about Taipan. Also thought the 'Tao' and 'Tazmania' updates might be of interest in terms of new places opening soon and offering something (hopefully) at least a BIT different.

Have to watch my computer's bleedin' auto-correct like a hawk though (e.g. face replacing phase!). Think I'll turn it off, I swear I spend more time correcting ITS screw-ups than it saves me time in making correct corrections. Auto-correct is a ducking piece of ship!!!!! 555

Went out again couple of nights ago, one of the girls I've known a LONG time had a bit of a celebration and insisted on having it in Bangla , understandable as lots of her chums work there.

Went to Hollywood. The 100 baht beer promo has either finished or was off for that night, back to 180 baht per bottle. We went about midnight and the place was 90% empty. By far the highest proportion of people in there were the Hollwood attired and 'sponsored' PR girls. The music was awful and the DJ really bad, merely playing random tracks with little to no mixing and highly erratic in terms of 'beats per minute' and clashes in style (pop, house, trance, Arab, electronica, pop, trance), a real musical dog's breakfast. Shisha still available at 350 baht (to be fair they actually do make a good job of it).

Around 3:30 (Bangla closure time) it picked up mostly with a few Arabs and French/Algerian types trying to be uber-cool but generally being blanked by the girls, all in cheap-charlie mode (indeed if some of the farangs are seen by bar owners as 'cheap charlies' here, don't hang your hopes on these drongos keeping your bar afloat!). The trend in the dorkish wearing of sunglasses inside a club with next to no lighting, and the VERY tired, and these days unfashionable, wearing of caps backwards hasn't subsided with this crowd. Doubtless due to the large number of girls around our table a couple tried to muscle in to bring their brand of cool to the evening, until they were told in no uncertain terms "private party and you ain't invited, now &%#$ off!!" Even after 3:30 the place was still about 80% empty. Wrapped up there about 6, waited until the death as we had a couple of bottles of liquor and got joined by a bunch of off-duty Bar Funk girls we know who came in after work. Had a good time but for me it was only because we took our own party. As an aside, the Hollywood Zero refurb is set to happen 1st October. The recent closure was just for a short time and some minor touch ups, the 100 baht beer offering merely to tempt people back once the doors opened again.

After that, we went to Tai Pan which by this time was in its death throes and had entered the Thai music shut down face. It was still pretty full through. Tai Pan still does well, pretty constant really. Was in there the last time we went out here with a few chums who finish work late. Busy enough even at 12, peaking to about 90% full around 3:30, thinning out again around 5.

The new place next to Rock Hard that has been mentioned (and that is owned by the same guy that owns Suzy Wongs Group) will be a club with a live band and DJ, it's not another gogo. I stopped by to chat to the owner and have a look at the place on the way to meet my chums the other night and it will hopefully be ready to open 1 August, they're working flat out on it at the moment, 24 hours a day I think. I'd be surprised if it can open on the 1st though. Lots to do. It will be in an oriental style, similar to Suzy Wongs, and will be called 'Tao' (as in Taoism).

One of the problems with the old Tazmania pool lounge, under Illuzion, was that the beers were a bit pricey for a pool lounge. Nice to see that under the new owners the prices will be better. 100 baht beers and cocktails around 200-260 depending on the type. They will be doing shisha too and have a nice line-up of PRs. Looking forward to seeing it when it's finished. The PRs will be out in Bangla tonight, before it wraps up at 12 for Buddha day, dishing out some tickets for the opening on the 1st.

Other parts of Bangla same same, even Aussie Bar quite quiet. Tiger 2 dead. Tiger 1 not far off. Tons of tourists mingling around, but mostly Chinese and Korean taking photos, and clogging up the walkway watching the various break-dancers and whoever else decides to turn the walkway into street theatre, fine until you want to walk and get somewhere!!

Judging by the amount of pestering "Taxi sir?, kebab/burger sir?, hello mate you need a suit?, massage?, Thai food/seafood?, ping pong show?, kebab sir?" (you know the drill) which seem to have reached record levels, times are really hard. Does get tiresome walking down Soi Sansabai having be conscious of not making eye contact with almost anyone at all for the sake of not getting pestered with the relentless stream of fast food invites. That's assuming you can actually walk down Sansabai which by 1am is barely wide enough to get one tuk-tuk down the road thanks to the now 5 deep parking of bikes.

I have to say that I enjoy reading your posts "Pick of Penang' and the same with those of "Lashay", not only because they give great accounts of what is out there, but also because they are well well structured and interesting.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks. The feeling is mutual

In terms of variety (even a degree of quality), on the occasions that I did venture down Blandla Road I'd often kick the night off at a local beach bar called Bikini, at the back of the Patong Bay Resort Hotel. Pick a nice day and it was a great place to go at sunset. The atmosphere was great, good chill music that would increase in tempo as the night went on (but never so loud you couldn't hold a conversation, nice clientele (seems bogans don't do chill) and, for me, the best cocktails in town made by a guy who knew how to make them and used branded premium liquor at reasonable prices. It was such a refreshing break from Blandla that the balance of hours I'd spend there vs the strip shifted dramatically in favour of Bikini.

Sadly, as a result of a number of issues surrounding contractual matters, the two guys that ran it said enough and pulled out. And, in typical fashion when a bar is abandoned by people who do know what they're doing and it gets left to people who don't the inevitable happened. It's now a ghost bar. Zero atmosphere, zero customers and one less (and there are FAR too few in Patong for it to be even one less) place to go that offers a pleasant environment for a few relaxing drinks (and no, sorry, for me the 'copy / cut / paste / repeat repeat repeat' formula of the bars that make up OTOP and opposite Absolute don't fit the bill in that regard).

The change at Bikini is quite obvious between pics 1 & 2 vs 3 & 4.

Struggling, and I mean REALLY REALLY struggling to find anywhere that might be a reasonable substitute I checked out the Sky Bar (or whatever it's called) on top of The Keys Hotel, around Soi Seadragon. Not even close. No atmosphere, no music, dull looking, no customers at all and hot as hell (at least at Bikini they had an array of fans for the windless nights). The search continues.

The two guys from Bikini are taking over Tazmania Pool Lounge underneath Illuzion and plan to bring a similar recipe to that venture, minus the sea of course. I hope it works out. I used to like Tazmania before even though the beer prices were a BIT high at 150 for an upmarket pool lounge. Prices aside I still preferred the change that it offered over boom-boom (in sense of the loud) Blandla. Nice environment and even some decent music. Some cracking PR hostesses initially too which they were paying top dollar for, most of whom seem to have upped and left when it started to get busy and they had to do some actual work. But, good attempt at different nonetheless. I hope it flourishes under the new management. Patong badly needs different.

Phuket is changing, and fast, no doubt about it.

I agree 100% and

Phuket has been changing since i moved here in 1985 :-)

And I agree as well. I moved here in 1996 and the change in 'tourist' demographics has been astonishing. The businesses adapt or go bankrupt.

From what I see, more are going bankrupt than adapting, because there just aren't the western customers coming here to even attempt to be creative and try to adapt.

Indeed. The adapting and any attempt at creativity has come in a few years too late with too much reliance on the old model "copy/cut/paste/repeat repeat repeat". I think the astonishing aspect is more from the sheer complacency in Phuket that the model was sustainable despite it being obvious with for quite a while that it was going down the pan.

That it's supposed to be Thailand's number 1 tourist destination makes the total lack of infrastructure development and lack of environmental investment laughable. 5* prices everywhere for a 2* experience.

Taking your theme of suggesting what I seem to be thinking, you seem to think it's OK to ratchet the prices right up on the basis of compensating the bar owner for bringing in top notch girls but no problem if they fail to do so. Just pay up punter. No problem with people charging high prices, but you'd better offer an experience that justifies it. Whatever the numbers are all I care about is am I having a good time and am I getting value for money.

You seem to misunderstand, yes many bar owners are paying to have pretty much any girls these days. Why? because girls don't want to work bars here anymore. Why? because they can either go clubs to work less and earn more or even better go somewhere else completely (western farangs here are now some of the cheapest customers around). Salary for the girls was only ever an incentive to get the girls to stay put in one bar. Pick up 1 or two customers a month in a club that keeps them for a few days and the girl is already ahead financially without having to sit around for 7-8 hours per night shouting "welcome" or being nice to old cheap chariles regulars.

Just as the "tourists" walking up and down the "attraction called bangla road" taking pictures and little else are killing Bangla, so are the guys who expect prices to remain same over 10 years and complain that bangla bars are over priced at 100 baht compared to their chalong expat dive at 60 baht (or now it seems 45 baht vs some on bangla at 80). Where ever i am, I don't go from my local dive bar to the main nightlife area and expect even remotely the same prices.

But also, i don't argue, bar owners need to up their game as well, but main complaint they they are told is "prices prices prices", one of the biggest things they can do little about if they want to actually stay in business

Edit: actually, let me ask you. What would make it more "fun" for you and make you inclined to go there?

I think you misunderstand me. I really don't care about the plight of the bar-owners, their problems, the justifications for price hikes or whatever. The point was made though that a couple of specific bars racked up the salaries to get the best girls in town. Others followed to attract any dancers at all. Prices up a lot, yes. Quality up a lot, no. Entertainment value up, no. Good value for money for customer - go figure.

The ONLY thing I care about is having an enjoyable night out that is good value for money. Patong cannot provide that for me so I won't go.

As to what would make it more fun for me, I've mentioned in several posts above the things for me that are a real turn off about the bar scene. So it'd be the reverse of those. Other than that, sorry I can't really be bothered to repeat it all again. Fix some of those issues and may be others would be more inclined to go there, as for me, nothing would entice me there on even a remotely regular basis. I'm not even remotely interested in the bar-girl scene in Patong save popping in from time to time (like 2-3 times a year) to say hi to some owners I know and a few of what I would consider to be higher quality dancers that I've known and who have been around some time.

To be honest I'm done micro-disecting the Patong bar scene. It's just one ingredient from a whole list that creates the dish that is rip-off Patong, all of which have been fully covered in this and many other threads. The discussion only really digressed into 'bar management' because of issues raised concerning why costs had risen so dramatically in the last 18 months or so. Right or wrong, justified or not I simply don't care and I'm afraid bar owners are about as highly placed on my sympathy list as anyone else that has been involved in ripping off tourists over the years. People are entitled to have opinions, make choices and spend their money where they think they get the best bang for the buck, the best night out and the best value for money. And no amount of pleading the plight of bar owners will change that.

Maybe the Western farangs who are the 'cheapest customers around' and the 'old cheap charlie regulars' got fed up with just that attitude and decided to go somewhere where their spending of money isn't something that's seen as something that bar-owners or their staff have a god-given right to expect only to be branded in derogatory terms for having the audacity to complain, complain about a night of entertainment that Pattaya seems to be able to offer for half or even a third of the price while facing the same economic pressures that are faced in Patong. And I'm not sure where the moans about prices at 100 baht came into it? The main concerns I think were the massive hikes in LD prices and bar fines coupled with the generally abysmal attitude and poor customer entertainment. The total lack of fun. Tourists just dishing out money hand over fist to owners and dancers almost as if it is expected regardless of the crap experience the customer was getting. Maybe the customers ARE getting the girls and the bars they deserve, but the bars are now sure as hell getting the customers they deserve. Enjoy. No sympathy from me I'm afraid, none at all.

@Lashay. Why are you trying to assume what I'm thinking? My thoughts, quite simply, are that the night out experience in Patong is simply crap. Over-priced, loud, bland and totally unentertaining. Quite simple, I just think Patong's crap.

I'm not blaming the bar owners at all. I just take the view that I get zero enjoyment and zero value for money at those bars, Whatever the justifications or reasons the poor down-trodden bar owners might feel they have. If I have a crap time in the bars, I won't go, simple. I'm well versed in the practice of running a business. How the bar owners here run them is up to them. But don't expect me to go there and put up with the whatever crap is on offer just because life's not easy. There's plenty of places I go where I do have a good time and where the owners are under the same economic pressures as anyone else.They provide a good night out, with great value for money. So, that's where I go, that's where I spend. The bars are one of the only ingredients of rip-off, scammy Patong.

On the subject of girls, the bar owners racked up the prices to offer salaries to offer the best in town. These days, they don't. But the prices remain hiked. Taking your theme of suggesting what I seem to be thinking, you seem to think it's OK to ratchet the prices right up on the basis of compensating the bar owner for bringing in top notch girls but no problem if they fail to do so. Just pay up punter. No problem with people charging high prices, but you'd better offer an experience that justifies it. Whatever the numbers are all I care about is am I having a good time and am I getting value for money.

You can try to assume what I'm thinking or saying as much as you like, plead the plight of the poor down-trodden bar owners as much as you like. Fact is, no reasons are good enough for me to pay over inflated prices for a crap customer experience and that's what Patong offers. So I'll spend my money elsewhere. The bar owners can console themselves at the next meeting of the Phuket Bar Owners Association and can feel free to berate those god-awful punters who think they have a right to get value for money and enjoy themselves.

The bars are just ONE of the ingredients of the problems facing Patong and it's continued slide from popularity, it's a prominent one for tourists I guess as it's one of the few reasons a lot come here. Hence some of the focus on that aspect, and the micro issues surrounding their operations. Whatever the problems they think they might face, if people don't enjoy it, don't get good value for money and don't come profits will nose-dive. But please don't tell me that just because life's tough people shouldn't be able to expect a good night out. There ARE places that do it.

On a final note, being as we're quoting examples I can think of ample examples of bar owners and staff ripping the arse of slightly inebriated tourists with the girls and their chums making a killing on drinks, fiddling the bin, overcharging at the end, customer paying his 1,500 baht bar fine for a 5,000 baht short time only for the girl to get back to the hotel and suddenly become sick and need to go home. There's examples that can be given from both sides of the fence, there's lot's of tourist in Patong, but the bar owners and staff are hardly all angels and beyond criticism.

Upshot for me is, splitting hairs over the management of bars is pretty pointless. As are opinions as to why and who is right, who is wrong, what is justified and what is not, or what the difficulties might be that the bar owners face. I go out to have a good time and get good value form money and enjoy the night out. Patong bars don't provide that for me. Bar owners can quote as many reasons as they want but it won't change the fact that I and customers that feel the same simply won't go there. My money, my choice whether people think my reasons are right / wrong, justified or not. Choosey customer I am, charity to prop up crap bars I'm not.

@ NamKangMan. Absolutely. Agree with you fully about Pattaya too, and they seem to be able to provide it notwithstanding the economic pressures on them and without running at a loss. Fun + VFM. Nice combination. Missing from Patong.

Have to say I have little sympathy for the bar owners, far from it in fact, it's self-generated bubble that was bound to burst. Whatever the justification the owners might have felt they had for the continued price hikes offering an enjoyable night out can't be ignored as a consideration, the suckers at the end of their food chain seem to have had enough. It will be very interesting to see how long lived the 'start of high season' celebrations on Bangla are this year.

I find that a very interesting comment. Basically you seem to be saying they should be running at a loss and be happy as long as all customers are having fun.

Nearly all the cost increases have been factors beyond individual bars owners control;

• Increasing alcohol wholesale prices (introduction of 10 vat and general producers price hikes)
• Rents (if they refuse to pay the bangla rents they will end up somewhere like nanai with little to no customers)
• Girl salary increases (no salary, little to no girls and if you do manage to get them people will complain, to old/to fat/to average and go elsewhere. Actually these days even with salary it can be a struggle as so many of the better looking girls prefer to freelance in the clubs instead, they can up their rates while still less cost to customer due to no bar fine)

Across europe and US (and presume Aus though never been involved in the industry there) average mark up for bottle beer is 250-350%, this is considered needed to actually make a profitable business .

Lets use Singha as an example, wholesale generally around 31 baht (high volume places like clubs can get this down about 10%). Here, selling at 80 baht it's a 150% markup, at 100 baht it's a 215% markup, at 120 it's 280%. So by worldwide standards vast majority of bars are selling too cheap already. Before bars could get away with these low mark up's and still make a profit because then staff were generally paid well under the minimum wage, girls cost virtually nothing and rents were low (you could get a whole soi for less than what a front row bar costs now), but these days.....

Bar owners (and developers) have tried time and time again to get customers out of Bangla into cheaper areas, we said we would never go there, that it would never work and laughed at them, they flopped. And now we complain that drinks prices are to high.

Nope. Actually I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is this (from my previous post):

"Patong is poor value, low quality, over-priced, dangerous and scam ridden place that has rested on its laurels ripping people off for years, and getting away with it because “they’ll always come back”. But, it looks like they won’t and Patong’s failure to interpret and adapt to a situation that’s been changing for years will I’m sure be the cause of it’s demise. Have to say I won’t be one of those mourning when it does collapse. What goes around comes around - and yes even to Patong!!"

And of course, no need to infer what I seem to be saying, if I meant to say that, believe me I would. But what I ACTUALLY said was this: Whatever the justification the owners might have felt they had for the continued price hikes offering an enjoyable night out can't be ignored as a consideration,

Pure and simple for me. Patong offers a bland, expensive and low-quality experience and has been happily ripping off customers for years, bar owners included. Now it looks like it's all going pear-shaped. The economic pressure on bar-owners is but one of many factors and one that I guess the number of tourists will be bothered could be counted on one hand. What they WILL care about is whether they are getting value for money (whether it's 100, 1,000 or 10,000 baht) and whether they are getting a good experience and IMO Patong offers neither. The plight of the bar owners is of no interest to me to be honest, thankfully I rarely go there. Cost however is far from the only factor owners should be considering when 'managing' (do they even?) their establishments and staff. I guess if baselines and mark-up was ALL that was being considered people would be having a pretty dismal experience in their bars - oh yeah, they are already.

Just looking through this thread and trying to imagine anyone talking about the state of the tourist industry in any other major tourist destination in the world. Post after post mentioning bar girls numbers and looks thereof as pertinent. I can't. Which is quite possibly why the shit hole that is Patong is in it's death throes. It has absolutely nothing else to offer. Very telling in today's world

You make a good point, however Patong has always been known for its nightlife/partying/girlie bars and beach, and not much else really.

In that regard it is not fair to compare it to the "state of the tourist industry in any other major tourist destination" unless you are comparing it to a place which is comparable in what it offers.

Tourists don't really see the "real" Thai culture as such, in Patong and as regards sightseeing, well it is fairly limited.

It is a party town and incorporates and encompasses everything good and bad that goes with this, girlie bars et al.

Indeed. Patong really DOES offer very little else. In addition the inclusion of the girls in the discussion became more prevalent given that they were the stimulus for the bar owners to change their recruitment and operating practices throwing high salaries into the melting pot of 'justifications' for massive price hikes in the last 18 months, indeed the looks of the girls was THE primary reason the high salaries were offered. Pretty girls = more customers = more profit and for a while the theory worked. Trouble is in most cases the girls are nowhere near the quality of those that were originally recruited but the salaries are the same, then a prettier bunch comes along and want even more. And then the bar fines, lady drinks and drink prices go only one way.

Whether the people who come to Patong choose to indulge in the bar-girl scene is up to them But doubtless a significant proportion do. Take the girls out of the bars here and I guess it'd be as busy as a European coastal town on a wet and windy Sunday in winter (but at least I guess you could still get sun-bed there!) because the bars, and indeed the place, sure as hell have absolutely NOTHING else to offer to entice or retain customers. I detest Patong in all honesty, even if I were looking for the bar-girl experience it'd still be the LAST place I'd look for it. But it's pretty much impossible to discuss Patong or it's recent and impending slide in popularity without factoring in the one of the main ingredients in terms of why people come here and which forms the basis upon which massive price hikes have occurred. You only need to look around the bars that pay lip-service to the quality of the girls, with the odd token girl hugging a pole waiting for the time to get down, to see the impact it has on trade. Empty. And after a couple of months closed.

Finally, the interaction with the girls doesn't NEED to have a seedy side, albeit I guess in a lot of cases it does. It is possible to go to the bars and have a perfectly good evening just having a chat and a bit of fun with one or two dancers IF they have the character and personality for it. And IF that is a factor (e.g. are the customers ACTUALLY having a good time) is considered important by the owners. And of course if they weren't all so desperate to get every last baht out of people as fast as they can as a result of low customer numbers. These days though, unlike even 5 years ago, good luck with finding that in Patong.

Seduction is ok when not full of french arabs... They will be back for high season again....

Yah, the customer profile at Seduction / Blow is it's major problem. I think the sunglass sellers must make more money selling them outside Seduction to plonkers who think they look cool wearing them in a night club than they do selling them to people in the day time.

hollywood is dead yes, illuzion took over.

People wait for high season but if russians dont come back, it will be bad again, just chinese and few farangs i guess.

if drinks prices go down, taxis did not change anything, i even hear they try to push 1000 bahts to airport instead of their outrageous 800 now...

shame.

Hollywood is dead, that's for sure. ATM Illuzion is actually quite full, takings around 700K a night, not bad for low-season BUT I'm not sure that's because the place is higher quality (it's still a typical Thai club, concrete floors and metal tables - actually more like a not-so much converted warehouse) or the 500 baht open bar for liquor between 10pm and 1:30 am. It's working, for now. Time will tell. Bucket loads of staff though, separate managers for just about every single aspect you can think of so those takings have a LOT to cover! Switch off that 500 baht open bar and I'm not sure it would be so full, I still think Seduction and Blow are better, just.

Just before Bangla on the same side theres couple restaurants that look essential the same from the outside , one nearly always empty the one right next door swarmed with Chinese spilling out onto the street standing around waiting to eat.

Now I wonder which is Thai owned and which has Chinese backers.

Neither, both are owned by two thai sisters. The busy one has been around for a long time, used to be regular meet up place for bangla punters the day after as food was consistently ok and cheap and they served both thai (for the girls) and western (for the girls customers).

Then about 2 years ago some big blog in Korea raved about it and ever since it has been choker block with Koreans. Think most westerners don't bother anymore due to the queues. The other one has never really worked.

Some things were very noticeable. Most of the side sois were totally dead. Tiger 1, only Bar Funk was busy, Tiger 2, the usual front bars busy, but quite a few crammed with Chinese and from talking to the manager it was of the table for 10 and 3 beer (the omission of please' being deliberate) type. You too can drink here for 160-180 baht a bottle and listen to crap music thats so loud you cant even speak. The air-flow there has always been a problem but last night it was like a sauna.

There are reasons why tiger cannot really lower prices (and prices went up so much there) besides the high rent.

First off, none of the bars are really allowed to do "promotions", tiger does not want bars there starting a price war as is happening in other bars/clubs on bangla.

Pity he did not do same on other end when first opened. 5 years ago salary for normal girl was virtually unheard of and if she did get it would be sub 5k per month, then Tiger 2 opened, doubling the amount of bars on bangla. As all those owners wanted girls and as most did not have the contacts they started to try to attract them by not only paying salary but good salary's (also first high season Tiger 2 was a bit of a flop, many girls would not work there without salary).

This jacked up costs to all the bars but things balanced out and except for lady drinks and barfines prices did not change much.

Then a particular french group opened a bar in Tiger (now on main street bangla). These guys not only had a lot of advalible cash but also it seems little interest in actually making money. Their objective seemed to be having the bar with the best looking girls, no matter the cost.

To this aim they would regularly go around other bars and any girl who cought their fancy was offered crazy money to go to work in their bar. Other bars had to increase their salarys again to keep their girls. Think that bar alone, in conjuction with Tiger 1 reopening doubled salary costs for all bars in little over 12 months.

So in less than 5 years, to a bar with say 10 girls, salarys went pretty much zero to 150-180k per month. (bars can mitigate that by setting high 'sales' targets for the girls but even that is stopping to work now)

Some of that gets added onto normal drinks, large portion is recooped on barfines (why they when up so much in such a short time). Some got added onto lady drinks, 5 years ago girls commission would range from 30-60 per drink, these days it's 90 to 140 so most of that extra is lost to bar.

So tiger bars are stuck in a pretty bad situation, they cannot really lower prices due to costs, the western tourists are are young skint types who cannot/will not pay those prices (even though ambiance is designed with their age group in mind) and the rest of bangla is stuck in a race to see who will start selling drinks for less than wholesale price first.

Yup, spot on. Net result for the customer - poor value for money, very poor. Maybe OK if you're coming out for a week or 10 days with a "couldn't care less" mentality (regarding how much you burn) but there aren't so many of those I guess. And those bars we are talking about 20-30% seats occupied the last 4-5 times I walked past. Even 5-6 months ago the manager at the big Tiger one was telling me takings were down 50%, and that was peak season! Now, I dread to think.

Sure the salary situation generated by Tiger 1/2 hasn't helped, average salary is min 12k with quite a few of the (top - hmmm - not so sure about defining criteria for top!) girls getting 20k per month. High rents, high salaries, payments to the 'authorities', skimming cashiers (and that is SOOOO common), who can pay? Of course, the customer. Load the barfines (2k), lady drinks (220-240), beer prices (160-180) whatever. There is price differentiation in Tiger 1 even now though. Those bars in question offering beer at 160/180, couple of bars back just 120, about the norm. So the price control isn't working too well. The front bars get away with it I guess because they are at the front and suckers wander in and plonk down, maybe assuming all prices are the same. Even the standard of the girls in those, supposedly top, bars has nose dived. And as for the bar which is now on Bangla, I guess wanting the best looking girls is no longer a criteria. For me the only bar that has offered a reasonable degree of 'quality' in the girls in Tiger is 'Nasty'. Generally more mature girls, with shapes and curves that look like girls instead of propelling pencils AND some even having a personality and sense of humour!!

Trouble is the equation as to who can pay ONLY seems to factor in the issues the bars are facing, a situation that they have created. Whether the model was sustainable and whether the customer is actually getting a good experience and good value for money don't seem to figure. Cash-cow contempt. And previously "they'll always be back" has carried it. Sorry, but if I go out I go out to enjoy myself and have a nice time and get good VFM, sadly I don't have this inner drive that says "go out and tip as much money as you can into a crap, loud, expensive and characterless bar with girls who are even more characterless so the poor bar owner and be saved from a self-generated crisis".

Yah the Hollywood 100 baht beers took me by surprise. All part of the desperate measures the bars / clubs are taking to get ANY customer at all. In this case it followed the re-opening. Worth to check out if you like Hollywood I guess, you'll have plenty of room in there that's for sure. Offers everywhere but, in many cases, it still ain't working.

Have to say I have little sympathy for the bar owners, far from it in fact, it's self-generated bubble that was bound to burst. Whatever the justification the owners might have felt they had for the continued price hikes offering an enjoyable night out can't be ignored as a consideration, the suckers at the end of their food chain seem to have had enough. It will be very interesting to see how long lived the 'start of high season' celebrations on Bangla are this year.

PS: Not sure why my quote blocks are being cropped long/thin??

Yah I think it's the culmination of all the negatives that have killed it and those negatives have been setting in for a long time. Not like there was a sudden big-bang or anything. More a slow death that on a piecemeal basis has been subject of a lot of comments on TV. You would think those alive to market influences here would (should) have noticed it too. Either they didn't or they didn't care. Instead the ripping off has got worse and both the attraction and quality less and less.

So yup it's been going down the tubes for years BUT I'd agree that there has been a more marked, noticeable and significant slide in the last 3-4 years, last 2 in particular. Tiger 1 was certainly a lot busier than now a few years ago with maybe the back 25% being dead and the 25% in front of them less densely packed than the front 50%. Now, front 30% is OK, with those on the front better than most. The other 70% dead. Tiger 2, which I much preferred for being brighter, more airy and a LITTLE less loud, has also withered, it's the repeated (over and over and over) recipe for the bars that offered nothing new, merely added to the dilution of the (ever shrinking) customer base and the dearth of attractive, friendly girls where there simply were no longer enough to go round. All compounded by the opening/refurb of Freedom (totally dead), Lion and such like.

The 10% increase in alcohol tax likely didn't help but then prices have been increasing regardless and then of course the beach / sunbed saga which I think has been the final nail in the coffin; news travels fast, especially bad and, unlike last year's high season (where people had already booked just as the no sunbed crap all started to come about), this year's 'not so high season' will see the full bite of the effects I think. So it'll be down to the seaweed / 'Snail White' lotion / dried fruit hunting Chinese chasing rooms at 500 a night and who dine on mamak noodle from the 7 to feed Patong's greed and somehow I think that ain't gonna work. Tough!

Still going strong at Surin I see. Catch and Bimi. In fairness, principles aside as to how they came by the land (it's not like the rest of the place is a haven of integrity), I hope they don't demolish Catch. At least it's one of the few places in a beach environment that IS a bit different and offers a pleasant night out in nice surroundings with decent staff. Demolish it and we're left with what? Oh yeah, great, the characterless concrete beer scrag-end and lifeless bars that grace almost every soi in every town or god-forbid, be sentenced to 'quality' nights out in the rip-off shit-hole that is Patong), yeah - can't wait!!

As an aside, it's great to be able see the sand along the beach at Surin. No tourists of course, stupid folks have clearly gone to places where they can sit down comfortably, eat, get some shade, get served drinks and, well, generally enjoy their hard earned holiday. But no doubt, Surin is a nice quality beach now, empty, aside from maybe the 2-3 folks standing trying to work out the zone signs that dictate where you can sit and what you can / can't bring to the beach, assuming you can work out where the sectors start and end. That is, before they decide 'stuff it' and go back to their hotel pool and plan where to go next holiday. Baby out with the bath water or what.

The Killing - watch the original Danish series. It's brilliant.

Thanks. Will dig it out. Presume it's sub-titled, not dubbed?