ilocos

Oh dear, not good news for many people I'm sure.

I think this is far too much too quickly. I guess if you are working illegally and using back to back tourist visas, well you're not paying tax and it is illegal so the writing was on the wall anyway. If you are however using back to back visas and living on your own money and not working this is unfortunate.

Maybe there will be a sudden increase in student visa applications, not sure, but one thing is for sure a lot of people are going home.

I'm in the second group. My partner and I are nomads, and we support ourselves quite comfortably on the royalties of several novels I published back when I could be bothered to work. We're perpetual tourists, and have no interest in anything other than a life of leisure in whatever warm and pleasant country will have us. Unfortunately, if you were to look at our passports the pattern of tourist visas could easily be mistaken for that of the folk who come here to work illegally.

In the three years we've been coming to Thailand we've usually stayed no more than two or three months at a time before taking a break elsewhere (we've probably only had one actual back-to-back visa in that time, and one same day in-out exemption, if memory serves). We were here for the first few months of 2013, spent two months in Mongolia before coming back to Bangkok for another month, then went to tour Europe for seven months before coming back here for the last three. In two weeks we head back to Mongolia for August, and our plan (which is looking shakier by the day as reports of problems emerge) is to return to Thailand at the start of September for a long stay. I'm guessing our best option would be to enrol in a Thai language course and get an ED visa, but as those will become much more popular as a way for illegal workers to stay in-country I'm concerned they'll start cracking down on those soon enough (and I don't really care to learn another language right now).

Of course it's the prerogative of Thailand to tighten up visa rules, but it's a shame people like me will probably get caught in the dragnet. I don't believe it's the intention of the authorities to oust non-working, cash-rich layabouts, but that will be the effect. I just wish I hadn't recently signed a 12 month lease on an apartment. It'd be much easier if we could bail out and spend a little time elsewhere without losing a hefty deposit.

P.S. I also wish the gloating TV fools on long term visas would give the schadenfreude a rest. The new state of affairs may get rid of a few undesirables, but it will also hurt a lot of honest people who are a positive force for the Thai economy.

With your book royalties you can purchase a Thai Airways return ticket from a neighbouring country,

a triple entry tourist visa should get you almost 270 days. is that long enough stay?

A triple entry would be more than enough, but my concern is whether it would be issued and honoured at the border. We've already spent three months in Thailand this year on a double entry tourist visa (we've used one entry and its extension - the second entry will be void by the time we return, unfortunately). A three month stay followed by a one month break before returning doesn't really fit the profile of a legitimate tourist, so I'd expect we'd have an issue either at a consulate or the border, especially in the near future while the guys at the border are a little more zealous than usual.

I feel bad for the people that came to Thailand to start a life because they where told.... don't worry about proper visas or permits in Thailand, there's lots of ways around it and they are really lax on enforcement. However it seems to me that they are only enforcing rules and regulations that have always been in place.

With the proper visas and permits other than periodic visits to immigration ( UGH!) no worries.

As for the companies that took advantage of the loop holes to pay under minimum wage to teachers, etc. now that it will be universally enforced, the work permit/visa rules should provide an increase in wages for people in this category.

And school fees will rise accordingly. Knock on effect.....

narrithiwat crossing 4 days ago the group coming back from Penang with double entry tourist visas

The 64,000 dollar question is:

What is the minimum amount of time a suspected visa-runner should stay out of the kingdom to avoid the dreaded O-I stamp?

Will it be 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, or is it going to be another arbitrary decision based on the whim of each border agent?

Off-topic side note: This past week I have been inundated with requests to teach or tutor English. Requests are coming from all directions. I say no because I am not a qualified English teacher. Are a lot of undocumented English teachers packing up and leaving?

Any refused tourist visas? Or any refused double entry? Any red stamps given? Read in past Savannakhet is limited to issuing two visas per person wheras Vientiane can issue many more. Can a genius please confirm

25-7 Vientiane red stamp TR double entry.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

What kind of red stamp mate. Used to be one red stamp giving 15 days to depart Thailand if tourist visa declined

Never heard of 15 days being given by the embassy.. Normally the red stamp is given with a single entry visa instead of a 2 entry. They seldom deny the application entirely.

Any refused tourist visas? Or any refused double entry? Any red stamps given? Read in past Savannakhet is limited to issuing two visas per person wheras Vientiane can issue many more. Can a genius please confirm

25-7 Vientiane red stamp TR double entry.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Any refused tourist visas? Or any refused double entry? Any red stamps given? Read in past Savannakhet is limited to issuing two visas per person wheras Vientiane can issue many more. Can a genius please confirm

Is there anything members could do to mitigate the consequences of arrest on the way to border or airport to pay their overstay fees in Thailand? How could they prepare if they were unlucky. I guess having a Thai person to represent them in such matters. I ask many questions as I have limited knowledge. I ask these questions hoping answers will help members.

Having the money to pay the overstay fine and 1900 baht to apply for 7 days to leave the country could reduce the time spent being detained.

If on the way to the airport having a ticket out of the country would help.

Is there anything members could do to mitigate the consequences of arrest on the way to border or airport to pay their overstay fees in Thailand? How could they prepare if they were unlucky. I guess having a Thai person to represent them in such matters. I ask many questions as I have limited knowledge. I ask these questions hoping answers will help members.

Anyway I would advise affected people not to turn themselves in as my brothers mate did. He was only arrested and incarcerated for 3 months. I won't say what town but ill give you a hint - this town is known for its many ladies. Guess he was extremely lucky. Make your way to airport firstly or land border as second choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong with this advice.

Question, where did your brothers mate turn himself in ? Immigration or Police Station ?

And indeed, make your way to the airport with the money for the fine and a plane ticket, and when you arrive be as humble as you can be and say "sorry" a lot.

Immigration. The told him kindly to go away on his first visit. But he came back the next day to sort it out. On this day they arrested him. Perhaps he didn't have the 20,000 baht. I don't know.

Anyway I would advise affected people not to turn themselves in as my brothers mate did. He was only arrested and incarcerated for 3 months. I won't say what town but ill give you a hint - this town is known for its many ladies. Guess he was extremely lucky. Make your way to airport firstly or land border as second choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong with this advice.

Question, where did your brothers mate turn himself in ? Immigration or Police Station ?

And indeed, make your way to the airport with the money for the fine and a plane ticket, and when you arrive be as humble as you can be and say "sorry" a lot.

Anyway I would advise affected people not to turn themselves in as my friends brother did. He was an English man. He was only arrested and incarcerated for 3 months. I won't say what town but ill give you a hint - this town is known for its many ladies. Guess he was extremely unlucky, but perhaps not with the reputation for vice this town has. Make your way to airport firstly or land border as second choice. Please correct me if I'm wrong with this advice.

For the poor lad bkkdawg, for whom I at least have empathy for, if he is caught before he makes it to the Laos border and is subsequently incarcerated in the IDC what would he legally be obliged to pay in the case of immigration staff promptly and courteously processing his deportation order?

IMHO the fine for overstaying (500 a day with a Max of 20k), and has to have a plane ticket back to his Home Country.

if he's arrested before he makes it to the border? I have heard of farang arrested paying much more than this. Is there a legitimate reason for paying much more? Must the arrested over stayer pay for his food and board on daily basis while incarcerated?

Actually if caught with an overstay and sent to IDC the fine is lowered by the judge to about 10 to 12k baht from the 20k baht maximum fine.

Perhaps you have heard of people bribing their way out.

For the poor lad bkkdawg, for whom I at least have empathy for, if he is caught before he makes it to the Laos border and is subsequently incarcerated in the IDC what would he legally be obliged to pay in the case of immigration staff promptly and courteously processing his deportation order?

IMHO the fine for overstaying (500 a day with a Max of 20k), and has to have a plane ticket back to his Home Country.

if he's arrested before he makes it to the border? I have heard of farang arrested paying much more than this. Is there a legitimate reason for paying much more? Must the arrested over stayer pay for his food and board on daily basis while incarcerated?

Yes, you will only get sent to IDC if you're caught

Sorry, but those other questions I can't answer, but maybe contact member KarenBravo as I can recall he has posted about staying in IDC and what I recall from them, "It wasn't nice"

For the poor lad bkkdawg, for whom I at least have empathy for, if he is caught before he makes it to the Laos border and is subsequently incarcerated in the IDC what would he legally be obliged to pay in the case of immigration staff promptly and courteously processing his deportation order?

IMHO the fine for overstaying (500 a day with a Max of 20k), and has to have a plane ticket back to his Home Country.

For the poor lad bkkdawg, for whom I at least have empathy for, if he is caught before he makes it to the Laos border and is subsequently incarcerated in the IDC what would he legally be obliged to pay in the case of immigration staff promptly and courteously processing his deportation order?

Now there is much talk of farang doing the very naughty heinous crime of overstay and are deserving of being locked up in IDC. I wholly agree. A very deserved punishment. What I would love to know is this money demanded by immigration for a deportation more than legally required. What I mean is part of payment an extortion fee not too similar for fees demanded for landing at Phuket Airport? Let's keep topic relevant and interesting please.

It's very clear. It's all about the money. Pay and you're welcome 555. Everyone has option for student visa. Clarification on this impossible regards tourist visas. Just get as many as you can until they say no more if history and the present is anything to go by.The vege chicken samosas very tasty in penang. What ever rules they make some will get more tourist visas than others. No need to worry unnecessarily. Put it all in the lap of the God's.

How long ago was that.

I suspect you had 800k baht or more in your bank account.

27th March 2014. Yes, as I said, I showed them my bank book with a figure of 800K+ which is a requirement when seeking a Non Imm visa with a view to retire.

I was told that it had to have been in the account for a minimum of three months, but, they didn't seem interested. In fact, it had only been in the account for two weeks when I got the visa.

I was surprised that they offered the one year visa with no prompting from me as previous dealings with Penang haven't been the easiest.

I think you need to amend your previous statement.

KarenBravo ... under the visa issued to you - are you required to exit Thailand at least every 90 days? Or is your reporting requirement to visit a local Thai Immigration every 90 days?

Leave every 90 days.

Just before this visa expires, I will again show a bank book with 800k, this time for three months straight and get a visa extension for a year from immigration within Thailand.

This still negates your statement that you can't get a Non-Imm for retirement. It changes nothing as to the in-correctness of your previous statement.

Thank you for your reply Karenbravo... the requirement to exit Thailand at least every 90 days on a Non Imm Multi Entry '0' as you know means that the Visa issued to you in not categorized at O-A for purpose of Retirement. Rather it is just what I call a 'Plain' "O". This is the same category Visa I have and for my purposes I find it to be quite handy.

As has been implied, it is very unusual that the Thai Consulate in Penang issued this category of Visa... I monitor a lot of Visa topic posts and have not read of this before. But for me it is good news as I wish to get another such visa when my current one expires and get it without returning to America. I also realize that it may not be routine at Panang to issue such visas of this category and that I cannot rely on it. But when the time comes I will find a way to check it out.

If the Thai Consulate at Penang and other regional Thai Consulates would routinely offer plain Category 'O' Visas to those age 50 or over ... (IMO) it would prove to be of great benefit to quite a number of people who need a long term Thailand 'come and go' ability. And like me most would use it as a long stay visa spending almost all our time in Thailand. Some TVF members do not like this attitude but so be it because so far it is allowed.

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For those affected by Thai crackdown easy solution is to move to other ASEAN countries. Malaysia for example gives 90 days free. Just make sure you get out before August 12 if your only option to get back in is a tourist visa.

Perhaps easier for a Thai girlfriend/wife to get a visa in another Asean country than for you to do so here. But will they want to stay in the Philippines or Cambodia.....not mine. I am submitting to the new regulations and will obtain correct visas from now on. It was only on bad advice that I ever clung to the Tourist Visa/border run scenario. I would wake up one morning and just say to myself....how can I get this out of the way, quickly.

The REAL ultimate implication is that if someone is not yet at retirement age and/or has no work permit it is not possible to "live" in Thailand permanently with ANY visa (as I understand it). In ANY case it is 6 months in 1 year at best, and for the remaining period of the year it always means "Good Bye Thailand". Looks to me that whoever "settled" here "unofficially" will need to look for another place... BIG change, cold shock for many, I suspect...

Brilliant post. Everyone has option for ED VISA if they can afford it, many English teachers can't especially those spending most of their meagre salary on Beer Chang, or can be bothered when in almost all other ASEAN countries it's just a matter of paying fee or even free. Will be interesting to see if this option open to the under 50s is closed because it is often abused to work illegally. Perhaps it's time to hire a furniture removal truck and head across an ASEAN border or return to your beloved homeland to avoid this visa crackdown. Inaction will be painful.

Are you under the impression that English Teachers need/have and education visa? If so you are totally off the mark. To Teach in Thailand you need a "B" visa and a work permit....just like any other job.

They can't but they do, in my estimates quarter of farang teachers work illegally on ED VISAS

Just as a matter of interest, where do you get or how do you arrive at these figures/percentages? Why would a teacher want to apply for an ED-visa when he would be under contract with whatever school he/she is working at?

25% of teachers working in Thailand are on ED-visas?

Really.............................

And 25% on tourist visas. At least for ones being paid 30,000 to 45, 000. High turnover. All teachers in this salary bracket work illegally for at least the first 3 months.

Non immigrant visas give a 90 day entry. Only tourist visas give a 60 day entry.

So if you have used a tourist visa then have 2 or 3 visa exemptions can you get another tourist visa or is it considered as a back to back tourist visa too?

It is about visa exemptions, no problems with visas.

What you are saying is not correct 68 year old Canadian on tourist visas for 3 years was told they could no longer issue him a tourist visa 8 months ago but issued him with non O to apply for retirement visa. As he does not have 800,000 he went and got another 60 day non O at Kota Bahru. They have told hi Wm categorically no more Tourist visas. Luckily because of his age he's given a 60 day non O otherwise he'd have to move to another ASEAN country to live. Yes he is not a tourist so obviously not entitled to a tourist visa but he is not working.

Unless there is some wrinkle in Thai immigration law that does not apply to Canadians, your friend should be able (as many others have) to get a one year duration for a Non Imm - Multi Entry 'O' visa. Yes - one still has to exit and enter Thailand every 90 days (Border Runs) but there are no other requirements except being age 50 or older and show enough income to finance one's travels in and out of Thailand (and that is not always ask). A Retirement Visa or an Extension of Stay for retirement purposes is referred to as an 'O-A' and has financial and other requirements - and the holder only has to report to the local immigration office. By the way this Non Imm Multi Entry 'O' Visa can be extended up to a total of about 15 months if the last exit and reentry is made just before the initial one year expiry date... I have read that a Non Imm Multi Entry 'O' Visa can be obtained at Savannakhet, Laos (I am assuming there is a Thai Consulate office there). For the experts here - please correct me if I have stated this incorrectly...

An extension of stay is not called a OA visa calling it that confuses people, A OA can only be issued at an embassy or official consulate.in your country or country of legal residence.
You cannot get a multiple entry non-o visa for being 50 years old or over from any location within the region. Savannakhet only does them based upon marriage or having a Thai child.

Well this most certainly precludes him 555 He is gay. He has no money to go back to Canada to get an O. He plans to live in Thailand using indefinite 60 day non Os as he has been told no more tourist visas for him 8 months ago.

So if you have used a tourist visa then have 2 or 3 visa exemptions can you get another tourist visa or is it considered as a back to back tourist visa too?

It is about visa exemptions, no problems with visas.

What you are saying is not correct 68 year old Canadian on tourist visas for 3 years was told they could no longer issue him a tourist visa 8 months ago but issued him with non O to apply for retirement visa. As he does not have 800,000 he went and got another 60 day non O at Kota Bahru. They have told him categorically no more Tourist visas. Luckily because of his age he's given a 60 day non O otherwise he'd have to move to another ASEAN country to live. Yes he is not a tourist so obviously not entitled to a tourist visa but he is not working.

Unless there is some wrinkle in Thai immigration law that does not apply to Canadians, your friend should be able (as many others have) to get a one year duration for a Non Imm - Multi Entry 'O' visa. Yes - one still has to exit and enter Thailand every 90 days (Border Runs) but there areu no other requirements except being age 50 or older and show enough income to finance one's travels in and out of Thailand (and that is not always ask). A Retirement Visa or an Extension of Stay for retirement purposes is referred to as an 'O-A' and has financial and other requirements - and the holder only has to report to the local immigration office. By the way this Non Imm Multi Entry 'O' Visa can be extended up to a total of about 15 months if the last exit and reentry is made just before the initial one year expiry date... I have read that a Non Imm Multi Entry 'O' Visa can be obtained at Savannakhet, Laos (I am assuming there is a Thai Consulate office there). For the experts here - please correct me if I have stated this incorrectly...

There are many of us who have used a mixture of both visa exemptions and tourist visas to stay in Thailand for as long as possible, without working illegally in Thailand.

I believe this group of people are the most concerned since they may not be eligible for other types of visas or long term visas for one reason or another.

Yes, in a way this group of people may have been exploiting the loopholes in the system, but as long as they have not been working illegally, they are not exactly abusing the system. The back to back visa exemptions are perfectly legal, and in Thailand we even have companies set up specifically to provide such a service.

In other words, we must not lump this group of people who have been using back to back visa exemptions to stay in Thailand with the another group who may have used the same method to stay and work illegally in Thailand.

For this group of people who have not abused the system in order to work illegally in Thailand, what is required from the Immigration now is clarity on the "turn around" period in order NOT to be classified as a visa runner, whether via air or land.

Would 15 days be good enough ? And so on.

Let's not forget Thailand has bilateral agreements with countries on the issue of visa exemptions. If Thai immigration decides that you need to be away for 3 months before you can re-enter Thailand on visa exemption, then which ever countries that have bilateral agreements with Thailand will have to update their policies and do a tit for tat. This will not only mess up the immigration policies in Thailand, but all countries with which Thailand has bilateral agreements.

Most ASEAN countries allow foreigners to take up residence using tourist visas indefinitely. Western countries do not allow it. Thailand used to allow it but no longer allow it. Just make sure you have no reason to get back into Thailand if you are relying on tourist visas. Wasted breath to object to a way a country is governed. It is their right to restrict tourist visas (which has already started) and exempt entries.

whether you are working or not you are still abusing the system. A tourist visa is not for the purpose of residing. Please do not mislead people.