mike2011

Where in Cambodia?

If Sihanoukville it is the CM - Rayong bus, then connect to Trat and Van to the border. At the Hat/Lek Koh Kong border you will do good to have evisa/Tourist visa unless you need an 'ordinary visa.'

If to PP, you might still want to take the CM-Rayong bus bet get off the bus at Prachinburi and connect to a bus to Aran. Cambodian immigration Poipet charges 25 US for the 20 USD Tourist visa and 30 USD for the officially 25 USD ordinary visa. Thus, the tourist visa is cheaper than the evisa even with the tea money paid. Depends of course also on the number of free pages in your passport as the evisa saves you a whole page.

Be careful about the transport mafia to Siem Reap at Poipet, lots of info on the web on that. Several morning till non buses to PP and also night buses with sleeper seats.

Take the bus as you can haul a lot of stuff this way.

I think that the Poipet route to Siem Reap will be a bit cheaper and the border crossing much cheaper than Osmach to Siem Reap.

If you intend to visit the Thai Embassy in PP, Poipet is your border crossing as the Siem Reap-PP road is a mess.

Giant Ibis will cost more than Capitol but they also pick you up and drop off. Small Bus not a Van. Might be worthwhile.

PP Sorya and Bung Virak are not so great.

Anyhow all buses are close to your location. I personally prefer Capitol, so far persistently solid performance and no breakdowns on the road.

Dont forget to bring your umbrella )

(moderator edited libelous comment), I thought that at least 50% of advertizing was on condos and also visa runs. I have met over the years quite a number of foreigners who own more than one condo and living off their income from renting these out to other foreigners. Unless, they are debt-free these landlords might face a number problems due to their reduced customer base.

I take it that the visa run companies did not advertize for the sole benefit of those well-known characters mentioned above but to make some money. Obviously there were plenty of customers to sustain some of those companies for quite a few years. Their customers were longterm tourists who might now be missing. As reported elsewhere on the forum here, obtaining a tourist visa is not an option for all as THai embassies and consulates in neighboring countries use their discretion and refuse entire categories of applicants (check for PP).

With the moving in reduction of tenants it is doubtful that landlords will invest in more rental property and it is also doubtful that those longterm tourists will think of buying property given their increased cost of organizing their stay in the country.

The reference to the large number of tourist arrivals is misleading and just obscuring the issue. Those large numbers include the wave of Chinese tourists on arranged tours and the standard backpacker and vacationers. The longterm tourists form just a small part of that number and thus fluctuations in their numbers do not impact the overall statistics too much. However, it is this segment that makes all the difference for many business owners and the property market.

Talking about property prices in Thailand in relation to other property markets makes a lot of sense. Really. Without doubt people compare prices in Singapore and will be pleased that Pattaya charges less..... Such posts are welcome. It gives us an idea how sales agents work on their potential buyers with all too true statements and still talk absolute nonsense.

Denying the link between easy and cheap/no cost visa solutions and the property market is wishful thinking and reminds me of schoolboys whistling in a dark forest a night. The efforts by the real estaters here to talk up prices tells more about the market than they wish it would. Would it be all sunshine and a bright future ahead awaiting them - none would waste a second coming forward. Obviously, they do come forward and that has a reason.

A decent bus is USD 5.5 (22K riel) from PP. I took Capitol which was ok. They have a service bus from the bus station to their office in the city center - nice as you can advoid the motorbike guys trying to rip you off.

A taxi might be faster but with all those trucks on the highway I would not feel safe.

There are also smaller buses which are more comfy and cost more.

Bus trip on a weekday afternoon took 5 hrs including a pit-stop half-way.

Sorry, my mental health really suffered after looking at this text.

Question 1. Do you open account at BOC Thailand? How much deposit/interest/etc?

Question 2. What kind of documents provided? Your visa/permit/etc?

Thank you

Sorry about your mental health. The story was and is extremely bizarre and more like a bad joke in a soap opera.

1) I never had an account with Bank of China (BKK) but one with Bank of China (Manila). BoC BKK was used for the transfer because of the incompetence of BoC Manila.

2) If you want to deal with them, just pay them a visit. They are on Sathorn Rd. next to Chongnunsi BTS (wrong spelling) and opposite the BRT terminus. It is the corner building. I can thoroughly recommend them as concerns their integrity, customer care, and ethical standards. I should add that I had assumed that ethical standards had disappeared from the banking sector. BoC BKK showed me that it hasn't. Does anyone else knows a bank that compensates damages caused by another bank abroad to a customer who has not even an account with that bank? Difficult to imagine. So these guys are first class.

WDR - I was surprised how widespread BoC is now - my mistake they were never on my radar screen.

One additional thought: When I transferred my money out of Thailand my Thai bank charged me the usual fees PLUS 0.25% of the amount. That was a rather heavy bill and all went through City NYC. Could it be that BoC transfers between their various international branches is cheaper?

I had planned to settle in Thailand for some time before the changes in the overall situation took place. In preparation for applying for Visa extension I transferred adequate funds from my account with the Bank of China in Manila to my USD account with a large Thai bank. At least I thought that I had done this. The whole affair turned into a bizarre experience.

In March I went to Manila where I filled out the requisite forms with all details. I was surprised that they had no special international transfer form but used the standard ones. Nevertheless, I had all details - minus the corresponding bank / City Bank NYC in this case - but all other details were present and I showed these in original print-outs and the account-card to the bank staff. All should have gone through within 2-3 days I was told. I was also promised to get a confirmation over the phone.

Actually, nothing worked. I received information that there was a problem and nothing could be done. The money had come back. I again provided all details but to no avail. Being tied up with numerous obligations connected with the planned move it took me three weeks to get back to the Bank in Manila. By that time, the Thai Bank had allegedly refused to receive my money which made no sense as I had often transferred funds to them.

In Manila it became quickly obvious that the international department was unable to handle the transfer. I was told that the Bank of China Manila needed 'specific details.' This was of course pure nonsense. I asked the staff to be specific in their request as specific details dont make sense. In the end, I emailed my Thai bank who gave me the standard information but even that did not suffice. Finally, I got the Thai bank in contact with the Bank of China Manila and they coached the staff through the process. Pretty unbelievable.

At Manila the BoC staff handed me some paperwork showing the tracking of my initial transfer. These people were not even able to correctly identify the Thai Bank and had inserted some madeup Bank in the forms. Worse, 300 USD had disappeared. I was not informed and I m not sure why I was not told. Perhaps people hoped I would not notice. When confronted the staff pledged ignorance. Informing them about their responsibility for the funds, blame was put on the THai Bank and other corresponding banks for charging such fees. The corresponding bank was , by the way, Bank of China!There was not a single other bank involved. It was a simple attempt at distracting my attention away from their branch. Anyhow, the BoC Manila staff promised to investigate the matter and it would take only a few days until I would learn more. They staff knew that I was leaving before that time for Bangkok. For the past 3.5 months I did not receive that promised email and my renewed inquiry was ignored by BoC Manila.

Thanks to the intervention of the Thai Bank the money got to Bangkok and I received a confirmation from BKK promptly and (!!!) outside the regular work hours.

When I got to BKK I went to the Thai bank and inquired about their fees. Some confusion set in as they could not understand my inquiry. I was told something like 15 USD and when I inquired about the 300 USD miscommunication occurred. We finally figured out that we were talking about different transfers. Or better: I referred to a transfer that had never occurred and thus no fees had been charged. Thus, it was clear that BoC Manila had misinformed me.

The only other two options I had left were BoC New York City = far away and BoC Bangkok down the street. So I went there and on a hot April morning I arrived sweating as I had received multiple false directions. Anyhow the staff was very polite and it took them only an instant to understand my inquiry and pull up the relevant paper work. It turned out that the USD 300 had evaporated in an exchange of my USD to Thai bath and after the refusal of the Thai baht by the Thai bank back into USD. Again, my inquiries about fees created confusion and misunderstanding. Once more the false information by BoC Manila had had its impact.

The problem was that BoC of Manila had omitted that I had a USD account with the Thai bank. Following established procedure the BoC BKK had automatically done the conversion. I provided abundant material like official copies of emails from the Thai bank to BoC Manila to BoC BKK and they seemed to understand what had happened. A manager spoke to me and assured me that he would look into the matter but that for the moment not much could be done. Time was needed.

I left Thailand for some work related travel and on my return at the end of June I visited BoC BKK. I was surprised that everybody was fully aware and I did not need to explain my visit. After waiting for perhaps five minutes I was called into a meeting room where a manager discussed the matter. He fully acknowledged that I had not made any mistake and that the problems and loss money had been caused by BoC Manila. Moreover, the BoC BKK was assuming 50% - 150 USD of the loss and would transfer the sum to BoC Manila to a ledger account for me to collected the money. I was also informed that BoC Manila refused any responsibility dispite the conclusive evidence. BoC BKK had contacted the BoC Manila and had been unable to come to a positive result. Furthermore, I was told that BoC BKK would once more pursue the matter and it seems the affair goes to BoC Bejing, the company HQ.

In all those years I have been dealing with banks I never ever had such an experience. BoC BKK not only promised to do something stating that they want to take care of their customers but they actually did so. Moreover, they did not play a legalistic game refusing responsibility. Although I had never implied that they were at fault in any way, the bank assumed 50% of the conversion losses without being obliged to do so! For me this is unheard of.

Overall, I am deeply disappointed by the deceptive conduct of BoC Manila and their incompetence. On the other, I can only applaud and recommend the ethical standards of BoC BKK and their commitment to their customers. They spent work hours and funds on me although I was never their client and there was not a single cent to be made for them.

In about 6 weeks I will be back in Manila and the saga will continue. I am afraid there will be further twist and turns in the stories these people make up. I wonder how their manager will keep a straight face in view of the BoC BKK transfer crediting me with 150 USD compensation. Could there be a more damning testimony to his and his staff's utter lack of professionalism?

Since 2008 my trust in bankers had suffered but it was a pleasure to meet honest bankers at the BoC BKK. I can only recommend them.

I take back up all my previous criticism! Mea culpa!

Learning about a recent evaluation of the Pattaya chief cop's performance, wrong: former chief cop, I now understand that these volunteers fully met the job description, did what was expected of them, and all is fine.

Now we only wait to see them running like their former boss and his wife did.

I thought putting my experience here on the forum might actually be better for her. I dont know how you feel in Pattaya, but to me it seems getting more rough by the day. Aside from increasing numbers of the sort of people I do not like to see around me (speaking of other tourists) it appears that more and more local Thais act accordingly.

Thus, this genuinely nice service and help stuck out and is worth noting. Usually I approach travel agents with red alert on my mind being constantly on the look-out for scams. This agent was a most pleasant break from the rule/usual and this info will hopefully help some readers in he future. (I have nothing to do with the business, of course)

Nice to know that some people have kept their generally positive attitude and politeness.

I had made a mistake while booking on Air Asia and needed some help. Over the net I found out that there is an agent for Air Asia at Tukcom on Pattaya Tai. If you enter the place, it is immediately on the right hand side. A little hole in the wall shop.

The friendly lady took all details and got on the phone. It took - as was to be expected - quite some time until she had someone on the line and fixed the problem.

When I asked for the fee she declined and told me all ok. In case, I had another problem with the booking I am welcome to come back.

The kind lady had never seen me before, it was not her booking = she had not made a satong on the flight, and she surely had other things to do.

This was a most pleasant experience, she was helpful, friendly, and understood the whole issue.

All is fine with my ticket now.

I highly recommend this small shop and she will surely get my business in the future.

Seems to me that the more protests there against the military there are the longer it will be before an election can be held.

Anyone who genuinely wants to see reforms and a free and fair election should be, not getting behind the military, but lets say getting in parallel with them to get the process of reforms underway as soon as possible.

That way those who have interests in particular reforms, say education, can have an input as to what these reforms should be.

The more people and groups who give input the better the eventual results of reforms would be.

It would also mean that there is in fact a check on the military for if groups come forward as a compliment to the military in formulating reforms and working towards free and fair elections then they would be in a position to make sure the military kept to their promises.

Should the military not keep their promises then would be the time to come out against them.

This is day 3, they have started cleaning the political toilet and tomorrow the farmers start to get paid, looks like a good start.

Give them another couple of months then we will have a better idea of where things are going.

Very thoughtful. Maybe some military hip hop for music classes. Drill for boys in sports classes? Mr Robby has problems to understand what a coup means. NO input wanted. They decide. Period. I can see that this imposing of orders on anyone without those time consuming exercises like elections, discussions ets is appealing to certain characters. Thai and others, including online persons.

However, legitimacy is gained exclusively through democratic elections. In Europe, the US, also New Zeeland (check it, yes, unbelievable - it is true!!) and it was so in Thailand, however flawed it was here.

Offering collaboration (look up the word) to promote once 'interests' (what a revealing term) to the current individuals wielding power is a perfect suggestion. But not for one who still upholds the principles of his/her home country and the ideals for which millions fought in WWII who overcame that sort of rule which robby nz seems so enticing.

I m still struggling to understand the logic of people like robby z and his sort. Neither the yellow nor the red shirts liked fair discussion, both abused the democratic process, we all can think of abuses of the law committed by both. That's why many, including myself, dont like those two sides. What I fail to get into my head how a group of people who committed the worst possible abuse of the democratic system can be supposed to perfect it? Given the past record, 1992 already forgotten?, it seems that both those yellow and red shirts pale in comparison to those guys now.

I think it is best we distinguish between conforming to Thai law and the spirit of Thai law on the one hand as opposed to finding one's way around the regulations. The here accursed "milkers", aka visa runners, belong to the second category as do nominal students. Both groups depend on local providers who are fully aware of the circumstances. What I like about the visa run companies is that they are upfront and do not present themselves in a false light. This is a low standard but some other business still needs to work hard to reach such low heights.

For the businessman: Did you take back the unfounded rumor about the Non-immigrant visa? Dont tell us more about white ravens or the possibility that something might happen. Such games do not reflect well on the poster. Until then: In my opinion, your posting is just a game to stirr fears and aimed at promoting your economic interests.

As for your insinuation concerning my future needs: Sorry, no chance to make a dime from me. Which is also good as I can post free of concerns what a certain business owners like or not. Again your allusion is not a recommendation quite the opposite. Always nice to have real input as it is much closer to reality than any ad could ever be.

On a positive note: The authorities at Mai Sai were very thoughtful in applying their orders. They stopped people from leaving, fully understanding the problems the runners would face once on the other side of the border. In the US and castle Europe, authorities are only to happy to see people on the other side of border without any worries. The instructions were aimed at "entry" to the country and not at "exit" from it. They were flexible enough to bring out the worst in officials but being in Thailand they brought out the best in those officials. Big "thank you" is due to those officials. They acted as gentlemen and in a very kind manner.

There is plenty of info on the web.

If you are not too much in a rush, you might consider the early morning train to Aran. it costs only 48 baht. When you exit the train station a bus (converted truck) is waiting and takes you the approx. 5-6 km to the border for very little money. Tuktuks want 80 baht (they are waiting at the bus station, right hand side from the train station 5 min walk).

The train is slower than the bus but if you factor in the time of getting to Morchit it is not too much. It is a nice ride through the fields and much safer. You could also alternatively also take the 2 pm train back. Schedules and stations are all online, google for state railway thailand.

The border scams are epic and do some reading online. It will cost you less if you do. An evisa for Cambodia might be a very good investment. it would be my choice knowing the circus at the border.

The border opens at 6 AM and closes at 9 PM (not 10 as it is claimed). They wont let you back into the checkpoint past 9 PM.

Theoretically you could take the afternoon train to Aran, do the run without long waits and spend the night in Aran. Cheap hotels there, food is not bad. Poipet is not that fancy but if you stay there and re-enter early enough you gain an extra day which might suit you. Hotels in Poipet start 10/15 USD.

Last bus to BKK leaves Aran around 6 PM. After that a Buriram -Chantaburi bus passes outside the bus station around 7 PM. Next bus passing is around 1 AM the Mukdahan-Chonburi-Rayong bus.

Thus, you could also leave around 11 AM BKK by bus. Do the run after the rush has ended and take a tuktuk to the bus station for the last BKK bus. This way you might avoid hours of waiting in the sun.

Keep in mind that by 11 AM the Siem Reap crowd starts arriving, many Visa run companies have unloaded their cargo, and the individual runners also congregate at Poipet. It is a zoo. I entered twice around 5-5.30 and just walked through. Zero wait.

One element is missing in the discussion here. The state or better the monarchy. For instance, many of the people living in Surin province were Khmer migrants from today's Cambodia. They left the area when the French took over. My exgf was a decendant of the last Thai governor of Siem Reap. During her visit she spoke to older Khmers (on the top of the pyramid at Angkor of all places) and they knew/remembered her Great?-grandfather.

The family still plays a role in military and administration throughout the country. With their uniforms, being reasonably well-off (depending on the branch of the family), and generally high status they dont fit the image of the starving khmer villages (there are plenty of them in their neighborhood).

Thus, we have the stigmatizing based on economic wealth/education but also the aspect of service to the monarchy. Curiously, it is also the stupid underdogs in BKK and other places and the middle class who play the same stigmatizing game. Pretty much like anywhere the lowlife mob beats other disadvantaged if allowed.

The skin color game players often react confused to a simply question: When such a remark comes, I sometimes point to my skin color and ask what they figure I would think about them? then it is thai rak thai )

Going first to Chiang Mai while being bound for Mae Sot is somewhat bizarre.

Trains are not a good option as well.

The first class and VIP busses need about 7-8 hrs and are very comfy. The road between Tak and Mae Sot is picturesque because it goes through mountains. Unfortunately, it is also prone to accidents. So a daytime bus is better and you can enjoy the views.

In Mae Sot you will find good food of a variety not all Thai city can offer.

THis map might be helpful:

https://maps.google.co.th/maps/ms?msid=217134799861125195209.0004b80c959c270acc6eb&msa=0&dg=feature

There is also funny map available at the hotels, locally produced.

The town has two shops selling high quality hill tribe products which make perfect presents and I treasue my "finds" highly.

If it is your first time inThailand, 2-3 days Bangkok are ok. Have a look at the national museum, enjoy the river, adn get a feel for the place. More remote places are plenty around Mae Sot. No need for shopping as Mae Sot has supermarkets, a huge wet and dry market.

Accommodation is indicated on the map. Go around locally and you will easily find an apartment for the time you stay.

If you like to do a trip to Chiang Mai. There is a daily direct bus service with the Green Bus (the Mae Sai route) and an alternative: early morning songtaew to Mae Sariang and from there with 1 pm bus to CM. Takes longer but MUCH nicer and interesting ride.

You will be spending time in one of the most interesting parts of Thailand. A really good choice.

@just+another+guy

could that have been joy travel? I walked into their office near the intersection saisong and pattaya tai. Well, never ever booked with them. Was around the time of your adventure.

On my last visit to Germany I felt something was missing. Grandpa had told me about those hordes dressed in brown uniforms and stopping people in the street. But they were nowhere to be found. Just few traces of them: a few photos and documents. Difficult to find as you had to go to a museum. Gone were the days where they had those big parades or funny beating up parties. Thanks to the OP the mystery has been solved.

Grandpa is long gone but he would be glad to know that there is again a place in the world where you can be stopped by Germans in brown uniforms while driving down the road.

Seriously, some of those people should try and start thinking a little outside the box. But then, this is idle wishful thinking, obviously the advantages of being associated with such a prestigious institution like the Thai police force, one of the finest known, outweighs all other concerns. Who could blame them? Prominent Known Pattaya expats have demonstrated the benefits of such action.

The self-sacrificial attitude of those brown-shirts needs to be documented before claims about their benevolence can be accepted. Given the record of volunteers,so also previous posts further up, this will be an interesting exercise. Until then I take such statements as plain fiction deception.

Thanks to the OP for the timely warning

I still remember vividly how Thailand expelled the Hmong refugees to Laos after decades in detention camps. One elderly person had to be carried on a stretcher across the border. This atrocious act was committed by Oxford-trained opposition leader (FUHRER) Abbishit.

The fate of this people tells all about not so high Thai society.

You could also take the bus to Suphanburi and avoid BKK. From there next bus towards Nakon Sawan.

Perhaps a note on the laos speaking communities in central Thailand. Many of them originate from Bang Saen in today's Chiang Rai province. When that city was conquered and burned to the ground by the Thai army alongside with Vientiane (where the good Buddist from BKK used the temples as stables) and Champamsak (near Pakse), the Bang Saen population that survived was deported. Communities are found in Lampang (where they have their own specific temple and cultural center), Saraburi, Sakeo, also around BKK and I think Sri Satchanalai. This explains the existence of northern Laos speaking communities in central Thailand.

Nong Khai was, by the way, founded to supersede the destroyed Vientiane with the hope that the latter place would remain abandoned.

Those population maps from the 1970s in the mentioned above link owe more to Thai and US wishful thinking and the Indochina war than reality.

To understand the spread of dialects, ecology is important aside from political events like migrations. Following the demise of the Khmer central government's control in Isaan there were hardly, if any, roads left. Much like until recently in some areas of Laos the rivers provided transport during the rainy season. Otherwise the settlements were like island in a thick forest where little agriculture took place. Some of us were lucky enough to see the remaining forests of Northern Cambodia before they were cut down. These forests had overgrown formerly settled areas. In this perspective the Moon river provided a link to the Mekong and opening for settlers to move along it. Thus, the Buriram area was by the standards of the time rather close to Pakse but it was inaccessible to the Udon area. Look at the river network and you see where the old towns are and how people moved.

it also explains the refuges for populations of Mon, hill tribes, and other non-dominant groups. They could escape the military superior or more numerous groups that pushed them out of the more desirable locations.

The idea that these cultures will no disappear because everybody wants to be Thai and be modern is only partly convincing. On the contrary, new media might strengthen those supposedly marginal groups. In the case of the Khmer they profit from the proliferation of culture from Cambodia. In the case of Isaan it is more that the Laos majority (in Isaan) impact the less numerous and less wealthy population in Laos.

Smaller groups might profit from newly acquired compentence and the emergence of an educated elite. Once people grow a bit older, they might not think any longer that life is just hip hop.

I m often surprised how little Thai-speaking Thais know and their lack of interest. Often it turns out that Thais are in reality just displaying their acquired new identity and have been keeping to themselves a second and older one. I m not at all sure that Thais constituted a numerical majority in Thailand, it is more a dominance they represent. This is now under challenge from the northern and eastern language speakers.

thanks Joe, helpful info

well done, but you should really get your prostate check (PSA test and ultrasound) annually. Dunno why they say 18 months. I do it and feel reassured each time. Knowing people who died of cancer because of being lazy, this is the absolutely a must. Some say at an older age it should be every 6 months. Just repeating what I was told.

I also got a colonoscopy and now I m clear for the next 10 years but will go in 5.

These procedures eliminate the dangers for the 3rd and 4th most prevalent causes of male death. Heartattacks caused by bad habits and smoking are of course not covered by this. But taking care of numbers 3 and 4 and having an excellent chance of cure if early detected makes those checks a very good investment.

I m a little worried about the xrays. I had an accident and I could not help it but had to get one (they said). They messed the first one up and so I got 2. No idea how much radiation I ate. In the past I have asked the doc if there is another method for diagnosis. THis saved me 2 xrays over the years. The xray might not be that bad but then we get enough impact from other sources. Thus, reducing potential sources of trouble makes sense to me.

OP, thanks that you encourage people. Many of my friends never go and I am saddened by the thought that I m likely to attend some more premature funerals.