Brucenkhamen

I think he was warning about dwelling on issues way beyond our ability to comprehend.

Correct.

What is the cause of my suffering? Why am I here? Who am I? Do I even exist? What is I? Why do I live under this illusion? What makes it so real? Where did this world come from and what is its relationship to me?

These seem to be reasonable questions if asked at appropriate times and under appropriate conditions.

And do you have the answers? do you know someone who does?

They are good questions to ask, sure, but with an open mind not expecting a definitive answer, this creates a positive open minded approach to life.

What the Buddha was warning against was spending a lot of time and effort on them, also against accepting answers given on blind faith. As one will distract you from what he was trying to teach, the other will stop you having an open inquisitive mind.

They are appropriate questions to ask, and "I don't know" is an answer we should be comfortable with.

How are you going to solve your "immediate" problem if you don't know what caused it????

That's exactly how you solve the immediate problem, by getting to the root of that immediate problem and solving it there. Not by trying to trace it right back to the garden of eden or amoebas first evolving or suchlike, all that does is provide a distraction from the immediate problem, and maybe some consolation with something to believe in.

Of course if you get very good at rooting out your own problems you naturally start helping other people do it, either actively like the Buddha did or passively by not creating more problems for you and them in the future, it's all worthwhile.

How are you going to treat a poisoned wound if you don't know what kind of poison was on that arrow? Do you even realise that your problem might not be an arrow in your shoulder but they poison that would kill you in two hours?

I don't recall the Buddha mentioning the arrow being poisoned in his simile, but yes if poison is involved you are going to have to trace it back to it's roots to find the cause and therefore an appropriate cure, because the poison is your immediate problem. You may not have time to find out where it was manfactured, what kind of bottle it was kept in and so on...

Sometimes you ask your kids to do something and you know you can't explain all the reasoning behind your request right now as it will go over their heads - but it doesn't mean that one day they won't be ready to hear it all.

Sometimes you keep your subordinates on the need to know basis - but that doesn't mean that it's the best and the ultimate management solution.

Two very good points.

I have heard this story before and it doesn't really ring true. Why should our desire to know how we came to be created (whatever form that question takes) be equated with a story of someone getting shot with an arrow?

That's the whole point of the story. Buddhism is about solving the problem of human suffering or disappointment here and now, and it's not an easy process, being shot with an arrow causes suffering and disappointment, and is not easy to recover from.

If you spend you time and attention seeking answers to questions that can't be proven and that don't solve your immediate problem then your immediate problem may never be solved, and you may die without achieving either.

Firstly Buddhism doesn't so much skirt the issue as considers it irrelavent.

The Buddha had a wee story to illustrate this. It's like if someone gets shot with an arrow but before accepting medical help wants the answer to questions like; who fired the arrow, what kind of bow was he using, where did he fire it from, what is the arrow tip made of, what is the shaft made of, who made it...

Buddhism is about dealing with life as it is now, just how we find it, rather than making up stories or myths to give answers to questions that don't have any scientific answer. It's about maintaining an open and inquisitive mind rather than filing things away under "Understood" and not having to think about them again.

Of course it isn't always practiced this way in tradional buddhist societies.

I haven't had to deal with your situation myself but I think the best thing you can do is teach your child that it's ok not to know and it's a good thing to have an open mind and consider all the possibilities. So "I don't know" or "Nobody really knows" is probably the best answer.

I asked this because I always consider that my experience might not be showing me what is common and that I might be seeing a small group of people who are not typical of the society at large....also that your experience might not represent the typical situation......so.....I asked if they drink alcohol because I know for sure that typically Thai people drink alcohol...the overwhelming majority of them do....everywhere in the country...all socio-economic levels.

While in theory I know your statement is correct I'd have to say the vast majority of the Thai people I know personally either don't drink alcohol, or drink in such a moderate way it's not really noticable.

These people are mostly middle class, mostly female, many I've met through the Wat, or are friends of my wife, or have met through yahoo or similar, or are expats in my country. I've never had any contact with the thai "nightlife".

I suppose like gravitates to like.

Though I do know the poorer males among my wifes relatives are definately heavy drinkers though.

Intensive meditation is not a cure all and generally isn't recommended for someone who is suffering from physical or mental difficulties, better to get well and then take up meditation as a preventative measure for the future. That doesn't mean it won't work for your GF, just a word of caution.

If you can find out the name of the teacher, or the name of the Wat, or organisation we may be able to more accurately identify what it will be like.

There are lots of different approaches out there and they vary depending on whether they are aimed at farang or thai. For example one Wat i stayed at in Chiang mai, Wat Ram Poeng, for farang had a schedule of up to 12 hours meditation a day, wheras the thais did less than half that plus a bit of chanting.

The World Buddhist Fellowship behind Benjasiri Park next to the Emporium gets a monk from Wat Pah Nanachat to lead a half day workshop once a month, I'd recommend that, see http://www.wfb-hq.org/

It sounds like it's not worth your while trying to be a caring employer and offer loans to your staff. Is that something that's expected of Thai family business owners? If not you're better off not doing it.

It's not as if there aren't alternatives, you can write them references for the bank, and there are plenty of pawn shops around.

I have been expecting things from my meditation and that is part of the problem. About a two months ago I started getting this pleasant sensation in the middle of my forehead which stayed with me most of the time. I saw this as a great sign at the time and since then have probably focused on it too much. The problem is that it is a nice sensation. I think that I read way too much into this phenomena and I am probably paying for it now.

I know that what I am going through with my meditation at the moment is impermanent. I suppose I just need to accept it and observe.

It sounds like you understand what's going on and know what you need to do, still it's good to talk about it.

In the end who cares if you have a pleasant sensation in the middle of your forehead or not, it's less likely to be a sign of proress than it is to be a sign that you have a pleasant sensation in the middle of your forehead, anyway. I know we look for signs of progress but at the end of the day an impermanant phenomena is just that.

I'd recommend changing your focus from awareness of the object to awareness of the awareness of the object. It will help you relax into your meditation more and you'll find that your awareness increases in strength and has a tangible quality to it. Either way there's no point being caught up in how it was before.

I think it's important to realise that the experience you describe is very normal.

I've been on long intensive retreats and back again several times over the years and my experience is much the same as yours. To have a meaningful meditative life plus a productive worldly life is not an easy path, after sometime on retreat I feel like I could take on the world, after sometime taking on the world I just want to crawl back into my cave for a while.

Are you looking to gain something from your meditation? The gaining idea is probably adding fuel to the antsiness. Instead just be with what is here and now, continually bring youself back to the present moment even if you know you it's not getting you that experiece you gained on retreat back again. Sit if you can, don't if you can't, either way practice goes on with everything you do.

My wife is also pregnant and I can tell you it feels like it's going to be the deathblow to my practice in the formal sense. We just have to work with what is, not what we want it to be, we don't have to succeed we just have to keep at it.

Most Thai forest monasteries can be as noisy as everywhere else in Thailand.

If silence is what you really want I'd go the extra distance and take the overnight train to Wat pah Nanachaat in Ubon, though you need to write in advance.

It sounds like you've been doing Goenka retreats, which is fine and good that you finish the full 10 days but is just one approach among many.

You'll find most other monasteries and retreat centres to be less physically intensive.

Where are you located? Where do you want to go? I might be able to suggest something locally.

I'd recommend you do some retreats in western countries as they contain a lot more teaching than you'll get in Thailand and will help broaden your practice, as Goenka teaching is quite narrow. In Thailand Wat Kow Tahm in Ko Phangan is probably a good start.

I have actually stopped reading after 300 pages which is very unusual for me. If I read past 100 pages then I nearly always finish a book. I am just not sure with this one. Maybe I will pick it up again at a later date.

I can't say I liked the book much either, I enjoyed learning about the history but there was a lot supernatural type stuff in there I found irrelavent that I sorta filtered out I guess.

I guess that sort of thing is expected by the Thai reader. A lot of Buddhist scriptures contain it as well and it doesn't gel with me as being a useful part of the teaching either. Again I think it was just something that indian people 2500 years ago expected to be present in religious scripture.

I have a lot of respect for Luangta Maha Boowa, he has a presence about him when you see him at his wat.

But I've always found his books and teachings come across like they're aimed at anyone from stream enterer and up. This is hugely different from Ajahn Chah who's teaching is relavent and accessable to everyone.

We used to live in an apartment block next to Nong Prajack, it's on the opposite side of the lake from Udon Hospital near another private hospital (i think it's called Wattana).

I think it was about 4000bht for a nice studio, it's quiet and the owner speaks some english.

According to the wife it was the only apartment block in Udon that was both affordable and nice.

If interested let me know and I'll either find out the name or draw a map for you.

wonder where I can rent a Mio Scooter in Udon?

Thanks for your info and for replying

I recall there is a motorcycle rental shop around the corner from Charoensri which is the main shopping mall in Udon. If you have trouble finding it I'm sure the hotel will know somewhere.

Someones got to ask, what's the attraction with Nam Som? You obviously don't know anyone or aren't working there as presumably they'd help make arrangements for you.

Weellll....Ain't no guarantee that the hotel is IN the town - might just be outside of town. Also - I'll (hopefully) be on a rented motorbike. Not too excited about showing up in the area with a bag and not being able to find a hotel or guest house. But - thanks - anyway for the suggestion.

Sounds like you're a bit of an adventurer.

I'm sure you'll find the locals happy to point the strange traveller in the right direction.

Hopefully Lickey will chime in and give you an indication where in town it is, I'm not sure why you think it might be anywhere else, amongst the rice paddies?

Unless you're experienced in backpacking around asia i'd be more worried you might not find the hotel to your taste.

You can always carry on to Nongkhai as there are plenty of hotels there, but by then you'll probably be too hot and bothered from your travels to conteplate that.

If you want to do it because you like tattoos, why not, then go for it.

As for the prayer beads being a buddhist symbol I've never really thought of them as so, I know some buddhists use them occasionally, but then so do catholics.

I can understand your desire to somehow cement your commitment to your newfound path, and buddhism doesn't really have something that caters for that the way baptism does for christians.

I'd do it another way, spend some quality time on a few meditation retreats, take a bit of time off when you can and immerse yourself in a buddhist environment for a while, i think that's more meaningful than skin art.

Been offline for a while, sorry, but busy lately. No, not coming to NS to meet a girl (bringing my own with me!). Would luv to know how I reach that motel, as that would save traveling backwards & forwards to a bigger town.

If there's only one hotel in town everyone is going to know where it is.

Just tell a taxi-truck driver "bai rong riem", or point to the phrase in your phrasebook.

One example of a good monk I forgot to mention is Luangta Maha Boowa. He's been a monk for almost all of his life and is now in his early 90's.

Every day hundreds of people come to his monastery to give food, and every day he teaches and chats with them despite his advanced years, well at least every day I was there.

Not only that but after the economic crises in the late 90's Thailand ended up owing the IMF a lot of money. Luangta Maha Boowa decided to use his celebrity status and started a campaign along the lines of "If every Thai gave 10 baht we'd pay off the IMF". It worked and the money raised was given to the government and the IMF was paid off.

Just one example of how one monk can make a difference in society.

In fact it is the ascetics, the lifers I now regard as the most selfish. Obviously there has to be those who offer knowledge and guidance to newly ordained novices and Bikkhus, they are the teachers and the continue the tradition of passing on their wisdom to those in need of it. I am curious though as to how these monks interact with lay people and if they are available to them when needed?

I think you'll find that while the lifers may spend periods of time in solitary retreat most of the time they are available to teach other monks and lay people. The Theravada system is setup to enforce that, because as the monks are dependant on the lay people for their material needs they can't totally withdraw from society. A kind of symbiotic relationship I suppose.

From what I've seen senior Thai forest monks are too available and too in demand, teaching and engaging with laypeople most of the day every day. Westerners are better at getting time out.

I can't fathom why a monk should spend his entire life within the monastery, surely there is no need once you have set yourself on the right path, what purpose does it serve? Would it not be more useful to be out in society, not behind the walls of the monastery.? These are the things I cannot justify.

That's because you view it in terms of western culture and the western work ethic, we judge people by what they produce, what's one of the first questions asked when meeting new people "What do you do?"

Asian cultures have a different way of looking at it and it's worked for them for 2500 years.

Isn't it more selfish to just be concerned with ones own existence, and ones own salvation??

If you can't save yourself how can you save others? People have to take responsibility for their own lives and spiritual development. If they are at the stage of needing teaching and help it's freely available. It's not like the Buddha's teaching is a quick and easy push your head under water and you're saved, it's a lifetime. For that reason it's not appropriate for advanced Buddhist practitioners to push their salvation on others.

There are lots of notions about the nobility of life of a Buddhist monk which I can no longer subscribe to. I'm not sure it's a bad thing though.

I agree, in and of itself there is no nobility, following the Buddhist teaching as honestly as you can whatever your situation is noble I think.

But nowhere can I find a reason to live ones whole life as a monk??

I think the example of the Buddha's life is reason enough, he gave everything up and never looked back. He was a monk for the rest of his life and when he was in the position to teach he did so to his last breath.

but I believe to do this and to claim you are not being partly or wholly selfish is a foolish lie and if you cannot even accept and understand your own actions and see them as they are, then 10 lifetimes of sitting in a monastery will see you no better off.

I'm afraid it takes longer than you'd like it to.

It's like saying those who go to restaurants and order a meal that takes an hour to prepare are selfish, they should use the McDonalds drive through. Well maybe the meal that takes an hour is more delicious and nutritious.

Following a belief based religion that encourages people to look after the sick and poor is a good thing, but it treats the symptoms not the cause, for some people that's just not enough.

The Asian view is having people in society who are trying to eradicate clinging and aversion in their own lives improves societies "collective conciousness" as a whole. While I don't like using new-agey terminology it's the easiest way to describe it

I cannot agree that veneration of a monk is a must. I would certainly not respect any monk younger than I without at least first talking with them..

I agree.

For a start you need to realise that there are at least two kinds of monks in Thailand.

One kind, maybe 90% in Thailand, are there to try and make merit for their parents, as a cultural status thing, or to skive off from having to make a living, Their practice of the buddhist teachings and the monks rules can vary from non-existant to being as genuine as a Thai can be.

The other 10% or so see Buddhist teachings as a way to end their personal suffering and suffering as a human condition. They tend to be very strict on the application of monks rules and ascetic practices. In Thailand meditiation isn't so emphasised as in places like Burma but it is a major part of their life. They might live a very secluded life or teach others.

If you are saying the first kind is selfish then I agree with you, the whole merit making industry seems daft to me and quite a sad corruption of the Buddhist teachings.

As for the latter it really depends on where you think the answers to human problems lie. If you think feeding the poor and helping the sick is where it's at then they are going to seem selfish compared with Christians for example.

In contrast the Buddhist teachings points to rooting out an inner dissatisfaction and selfishness within each of us as the way to make the world a better place. The more people who achieve that, the more that can teach others, the better society is as a whole. So while sitting cross-legged in a cave and working on your own self can seem selfish in the short term in the long run it can benefit society as a whole. It takes a long time sure but other methods seem to treat the symptoms, wheras the buddhas method treats the cause.

The people that feed and look after the worldly concerns of those monks are doing their bit and showing that they don't think it's a selfish act but something they want to get behind and support in a way that's appropriate for them.

really?

so, when did you achieve enlightenment ?

i have been answering questions....

expressing my opinion...

as to making claims about myself...

then i am deeply sorry if i gave a misleading impression...

i have not achieved enlightenment..

i have failed at most things in my life including the quest for enlightenment....

failure sometimes makes for an interesting teacher...

Reminds me of the Ajah Chah story of the dog chasing his own tail, or was it the dog with mange, can't remember. The point is the answer is in setting aside the striving to scratch the eternal itch.

I've met many buddhist teachers including Ajahn Sumedho, none of them made me feel that I'd met some idea of the ideal buddhist teacher or enlightened being, but really i haven't been looking for that as I don't think that's what the buddhist path is about.

Most were inspiring in their own way and had something valuable to pass on and i'm greatful for that.

Spiritual seekers start off with a strong feeling there must be more to life than this, I think there's actually less, it's that feeling of non-acceptance that drives us and causes suffering that we need to drop so we can enjoy the present moment.

I'd like to spend 3-7 days as a monk (is it called novice?). I have practiced meditation for 20+ years with so much more to learn. My Thai is okay but not good enough for instruction so I am wondering if there is a place where English is spoken?

Thank you!

I agree with everything tycann has said, but I'm also wondering why you'd want to ordain for 3-7 days when you've had 20+ years meditation experience (unless it's 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there).

I feel such short ordinations do nothing but cheapen the monastic tradition. I wish Thais didn't do it and has nothing to do with buddhist teaching and everything to do with thai culture, but you can't fight thai culture.

I haven't been to Nam Som but I lived in Udon Thani for a year and am familiar with some of the small towns around there.

I asked my wife about Nam Som and she said a friend of hers worked at the hospital there for a while. For a start you need to know that Nam Som is about as poor and remote as you can get in Thailand, government workers posted there get remote living allowance as compensation otherwise nobody would go. The roads are difficult and there are no buses, just taxi trucks.

My comments are based on her comparing Nam Som with her hometown to give me an idea.

1. Is NS mainly a farming community or is there any development happening there?

Definitely a farming area. As for development you probably need to turn the clock back a few decades.

2. What roughly is the population and any (many?) farangs live in NS ?

You might not meet any, and if you did they are likely to be far gone native.

3. Is there a fresh food & veg market in or around NS, daily or weekly ?

Of course, it's not as if people can go to a supermarket.

4. Got cable-tv in NS ?

Unlikely.

5. Any supermarkets and 7-11 stores (or the equivalent) in NS?

I thought every Thai town has a 7-11 but I'm reliably informed this is not the case.

6. Got bars or pubs there?

Not a chance.

7. Any farang-type of restaurants or places that serve some western food in NS?

Especially breakfast (like bacon, eggs, toast & coffee) - ain't always easy eating

rice first thing in the morning!

You’ve got to be kidding, and considering the alternatives you are likely to be happy with a bowl of plain rice for breakfast..

8. Got any hotels or guest houses in NS ?

I suppose travellors must sleep somewhere but nothing you’d recognize as a hotel.

9. Got banks and ATMs there ?

Should do, it’s not like it’s easy for people to get to the city.

The other thing to consider is April is the hottest month in an area of extreme temperatures. Expect temperatures in the 40’s (Celsius) and air conditioning hard to come by.

I hope I haven’t painted a negative picture. Expect the people to be lovely and to get more an authentic taste of Thailand than any hilltribe excursion.