Brucenkhamen

I think it's important to realise that the experience you describe is very normal.

I've been on long intensive retreats and back again several times over the years and my experience is much the same as yours. To have a meaningful meditative life plus a productive worldly life is not an easy path, after sometime on retreat I feel like I could take on the world, after sometime taking on the world I just want to crawl back into my cave for a while.

Are you looking to gain something from your meditation? The gaining idea is probably adding fuel to the antsiness. Instead just be with what is here and now, continually bring youself back to the present moment even if you know you it's not getting you that experiece you gained on retreat back again. Sit if you can, don't if you can't, either way practice goes on with everything you do.

My wife is also pregnant and I can tell you it feels like it's going to be the deathblow to my practice in the formal sense. We just have to work with what is, not what we want it to be, we don't have to succeed we just have to keep at it.

Most Thai forest monasteries can be as noisy as everywhere else in Thailand.

If silence is what you really want I'd go the extra distance and take the overnight train to Wat pah Nanachaat in Ubon, though you need to write in advance.

It sounds like you've been doing Goenka retreats, which is fine and good that you finish the full 10 days but is just one approach among many.

You'll find most other monasteries and retreat centres to be less physically intensive.

Where are you located? Where do you want to go? I might be able to suggest something locally.

I'd recommend you do some retreats in western countries as they contain a lot more teaching than you'll get in Thailand and will help broaden your practice, as Goenka teaching is quite narrow. In Thailand Wat Kow Tahm in Ko Phangan is probably a good start.

I have actually stopped reading after 300 pages which is very unusual for me. If I read past 100 pages then I nearly always finish a book. I am just not sure with this one. Maybe I will pick it up again at a later date.

I can't say I liked the book much either, I enjoyed learning about the history but there was a lot supernatural type stuff in there I found irrelavent that I sorta filtered out I guess.

I guess that sort of thing is expected by the Thai reader. A lot of Buddhist scriptures contain it as well and it doesn't gel with me as being a useful part of the teaching either. Again I think it was just something that indian people 2500 years ago expected to be present in religious scripture.

I have a lot of respect for Luangta Maha Boowa, he has a presence about him when you see him at his wat.

But I've always found his books and teachings come across like they're aimed at anyone from stream enterer and up. This is hugely different from Ajahn Chah who's teaching is relavent and accessable to everyone.

We used to live in an apartment block next to Nong Prajack, it's on the opposite side of the lake from Udon Hospital near another private hospital (i think it's called Wattana).

I think it was about 4000bht for a nice studio, it's quiet and the owner speaks some english.

According to the wife it was the only apartment block in Udon that was both affordable and nice.

If interested let me know and I'll either find out the name or draw a map for you.

wonder where I can rent a Mio Scooter in Udon?

Thanks for your info and for replying

I recall there is a motorcycle rental shop around the corner from Charoensri which is the main shopping mall in Udon. If you have trouble finding it I'm sure the hotel will know somewhere.

Someones got to ask, what's the attraction with Nam Som? You obviously don't know anyone or aren't working there as presumably they'd help make arrangements for you.

Weellll....Ain't no guarantee that the hotel is IN the town - might just be outside of town. Also - I'll (hopefully) be on a rented motorbike. Not too excited about showing up in the area with a bag and not being able to find a hotel or guest house. But - thanks - anyway for the suggestion.

Sounds like you're a bit of an adventurer.

I'm sure you'll find the locals happy to point the strange traveller in the right direction.

Hopefully Lickey will chime in and give you an indication where in town it is, I'm not sure why you think it might be anywhere else, amongst the rice paddies?

Unless you're experienced in backpacking around asia i'd be more worried you might not find the hotel to your taste.

You can always carry on to Nongkhai as there are plenty of hotels there, but by then you'll probably be too hot and bothered from your travels to conteplate that.

If you want to do it because you like tattoos, why not, then go for it.

As for the prayer beads being a buddhist symbol I've never really thought of them as so, I know some buddhists use them occasionally, but then so do catholics.

I can understand your desire to somehow cement your commitment to your newfound path, and buddhism doesn't really have something that caters for that the way baptism does for christians.

I'd do it another way, spend some quality time on a few meditation retreats, take a bit of time off when you can and immerse yourself in a buddhist environment for a while, i think that's more meaningful than skin art.

Been offline for a while, sorry, but busy lately. No, not coming to NS to meet a girl (bringing my own with me!). Would luv to know how I reach that motel, as that would save traveling backwards & forwards to a bigger town.

If there's only one hotel in town everyone is going to know where it is.

Just tell a taxi-truck driver "bai rong riem", or point to the phrase in your phrasebook.

One example of a good monk I forgot to mention is Luangta Maha Boowa. He's been a monk for almost all of his life and is now in his early 90's.

Every day hundreds of people come to his monastery to give food, and every day he teaches and chats with them despite his advanced years, well at least every day I was there.

Not only that but after the economic crises in the late 90's Thailand ended up owing the IMF a lot of money. Luangta Maha Boowa decided to use his celebrity status and started a campaign along the lines of "If every Thai gave 10 baht we'd pay off the IMF". It worked and the money raised was given to the government and the IMF was paid off.

Just one example of how one monk can make a difference in society.

In fact it is the ascetics, the lifers I now regard as the most selfish. Obviously there has to be those who offer knowledge and guidance to newly ordained novices and Bikkhus, they are the teachers and the continue the tradition of passing on their wisdom to those in need of it. I am curious though as to how these monks interact with lay people and if they are available to them when needed?

I think you'll find that while the lifers may spend periods of time in solitary retreat most of the time they are available to teach other monks and lay people. The Theravada system is setup to enforce that, because as the monks are dependant on the lay people for their material needs they can't totally withdraw from society. A kind of symbiotic relationship I suppose.

From what I've seen senior Thai forest monks are too available and too in demand, teaching and engaging with laypeople most of the day every day. Westerners are better at getting time out.

I can't fathom why a monk should spend his entire life within the monastery, surely there is no need once you have set yourself on the right path, what purpose does it serve? Would it not be more useful to be out in society, not behind the walls of the monastery.? These are the things I cannot justify.

That's because you view it in terms of western culture and the western work ethic, we judge people by what they produce, what's one of the first questions asked when meeting new people "What do you do?"

Asian cultures have a different way of looking at it and it's worked for them for 2500 years.

Isn't it more selfish to just be concerned with ones own existence, and ones own salvation??

If you can't save yourself how can you save others? People have to take responsibility for their own lives and spiritual development. If they are at the stage of needing teaching and help it's freely available. It's not like the Buddha's teaching is a quick and easy push your head under water and you're saved, it's a lifetime. For that reason it's not appropriate for advanced Buddhist practitioners to push their salvation on others.

There are lots of notions about the nobility of life of a Buddhist monk which I can no longer subscribe to. I'm not sure it's a bad thing though.

I agree, in and of itself there is no nobility, following the Buddhist teaching as honestly as you can whatever your situation is noble I think.

But nowhere can I find a reason to live ones whole life as a monk??

I think the example of the Buddha's life is reason enough, he gave everything up and never looked back. He was a monk for the rest of his life and when he was in the position to teach he did so to his last breath.

but I believe to do this and to claim you are not being partly or wholly selfish is a foolish lie and if you cannot even accept and understand your own actions and see them as they are, then 10 lifetimes of sitting in a monastery will see you no better off.

I'm afraid it takes longer than you'd like it to.

It's like saying those who go to restaurants and order a meal that takes an hour to prepare are selfish, they should use the McDonalds drive through. Well maybe the meal that takes an hour is more delicious and nutritious.

Following a belief based religion that encourages people to look after the sick and poor is a good thing, but it treats the symptoms not the cause, for some people that's just not enough.

The Asian view is having people in society who are trying to eradicate clinging and aversion in their own lives improves societies "collective conciousness" as a whole. While I don't like using new-agey terminology it's the easiest way to describe it

I cannot agree that veneration of a monk is a must. I would certainly not respect any monk younger than I without at least first talking with them..

I agree.

For a start you need to realise that there are at least two kinds of monks in Thailand.

One kind, maybe 90% in Thailand, are there to try and make merit for their parents, as a cultural status thing, or to skive off from having to make a living, Their practice of the buddhist teachings and the monks rules can vary from non-existant to being as genuine as a Thai can be.

The other 10% or so see Buddhist teachings as a way to end their personal suffering and suffering as a human condition. They tend to be very strict on the application of monks rules and ascetic practices. In Thailand meditiation isn't so emphasised as in places like Burma but it is a major part of their life. They might live a very secluded life or teach others.

If you are saying the first kind is selfish then I agree with you, the whole merit making industry seems daft to me and quite a sad corruption of the Buddhist teachings.

As for the latter it really depends on where you think the answers to human problems lie. If you think feeding the poor and helping the sick is where it's at then they are going to seem selfish compared with Christians for example.

In contrast the Buddhist teachings points to rooting out an inner dissatisfaction and selfishness within each of us as the way to make the world a better place. The more people who achieve that, the more that can teach others, the better society is as a whole. So while sitting cross-legged in a cave and working on your own self can seem selfish in the short term in the long run it can benefit society as a whole. It takes a long time sure but other methods seem to treat the symptoms, wheras the buddhas method treats the cause.

The people that feed and look after the worldly concerns of those monks are doing their bit and showing that they don't think it's a selfish act but something they want to get behind and support in a way that's appropriate for them.

really?

so, when did you achieve enlightenment ?

i have been answering questions....

expressing my opinion...

as to making claims about myself...

then i am deeply sorry if i gave a misleading impression...

i have not achieved enlightenment..

i have failed at most things in my life including the quest for enlightenment....

failure sometimes makes for an interesting teacher...

Reminds me of the Ajah Chah story of the dog chasing his own tail, or was it the dog with mange, can't remember. The point is the answer is in setting aside the striving to scratch the eternal itch.

I've met many buddhist teachers including Ajahn Sumedho, none of them made me feel that I'd met some idea of the ideal buddhist teacher or enlightened being, but really i haven't been looking for that as I don't think that's what the buddhist path is about.

Most were inspiring in their own way and had something valuable to pass on and i'm greatful for that.

Spiritual seekers start off with a strong feeling there must be more to life than this, I think there's actually less, it's that feeling of non-acceptance that drives us and causes suffering that we need to drop so we can enjoy the present moment.

I'd like to spend 3-7 days as a monk (is it called novice?). I have practiced meditation for 20+ years with so much more to learn. My Thai is okay but not good enough for instruction so I am wondering if there is a place where English is spoken?

Thank you!

I agree with everything tycann has said, but I'm also wondering why you'd want to ordain for 3-7 days when you've had 20+ years meditation experience (unless it's 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there).

I feel such short ordinations do nothing but cheapen the monastic tradition. I wish Thais didn't do it and has nothing to do with buddhist teaching and everything to do with thai culture, but you can't fight thai culture.

I haven't been to Nam Som but I lived in Udon Thani for a year and am familiar with some of the small towns around there.

I asked my wife about Nam Som and she said a friend of hers worked at the hospital there for a while. For a start you need to know that Nam Som is about as poor and remote as you can get in Thailand, government workers posted there get remote living allowance as compensation otherwise nobody would go. The roads are difficult and there are no buses, just taxi trucks.

My comments are based on her comparing Nam Som with her hometown to give me an idea.

1. Is NS mainly a farming community or is there any development happening there?

Definitely a farming area. As for development you probably need to turn the clock back a few decades.

2. What roughly is the population and any (many?) farangs live in NS ?

You might not meet any, and if you did they are likely to be far gone native.

3. Is there a fresh food & veg market in or around NS, daily or weekly ?

Of course, it's not as if people can go to a supermarket.

4. Got cable-tv in NS ?

Unlikely.

5. Any supermarkets and 7-11 stores (or the equivalent) in NS?

I thought every Thai town has a 7-11 but I'm reliably informed this is not the case.

6. Got bars or pubs there?

Not a chance.

7. Any farang-type of restaurants or places that serve some western food in NS?

Especially breakfast (like bacon, eggs, toast & coffee) - ain't always easy eating

rice first thing in the morning!

You’ve got to be kidding, and considering the alternatives you are likely to be happy with a bowl of plain rice for breakfast..

8. Got any hotels or guest houses in NS ?

I suppose travellors must sleep somewhere but nothing you’d recognize as a hotel.

9. Got banks and ATMs there ?

Should do, it’s not like it’s easy for people to get to the city.

The other thing to consider is April is the hottest month in an area of extreme temperatures. Expect temperatures in the 40’s (Celsius) and air conditioning hard to come by.

I hope I haven’t painted a negative picture. Expect the people to be lovely and to get more an authentic taste of Thailand than any hilltribe excursion.

A few things spring to mind reading this thread.

What is your reason for choosing Thailand as the place to ordain?

Have you spent time in monasteries or intensive retreats before?

If the answer to the second question is no then I'd recommend that you go to England first (or alternatively Switzerland or Italy) and spend some time in a monastery. It will be much cheaper than going to Thailand, you'll gain some experience, make some contacts, get some good advice, and prepare yourself. Amaravati is probably the most accessable monastery.

Unless you are looking for a bit of spiritual adventure, which doesn't appear to be the case, I think it's important to get a good grounding before you go to Thailand.

The other thing to consider is that as you are 18 you won't be able to ordain as a monk, you'll have to ordain as a novice (th. samanairn) until you are 20. This may affect your visa status, I'm not sure, and affect how seriously Thais take you. Being Thailand you'll be able to find somewhere that bends those rules but they are probably not good places for you to be anyway.

How log do you expect to remain a monk? This may affect your options on where to ordain.

When I ordained 3 years ago I did so on a non-immigrant O visa, I got that based on my intention to ordain with a supporting letter from a monastery. I didn't have to ordain in the monastery that originally supported me if I didn't like it there when I arrived. A monk visa is 1 year renewal of that visa, I hadn't heard of getting a monk visa beforehand, but things might have changed since then.

The monastery should arrange for a lay supporter to pay your ordination costs, if they expect you to pay it could be they doubt your sincerity or it could be it's not the place for you.

I take it you recommend Mr Muthu?

Got a multi emntry, which was why it was 500 ringgit?

My sitauation is I have plans while I'm in Penang, so having somebody to pick up and drop off my passport and application would be much easir and save me having to stay in Penang longer.

Did he seem honest? I just worry about someone running off with my passport and money?

My home line is TOT, so In theory I should be able to use 1222 or similar to dial up my ISP, and as I'm not in BKK many ISP's don't have local numbers so I'd like to use it.

Since I've been here about 90% of the time I get engaged or no dialtone on 1222, however a while ago I did a fresh reinstall of Windows XP Professional and for a few weeks 90% of the time I could get a connection on that number.

I'm wondering if there is a setting in windows that I may have changed that caused this behaviour? not knowing how the 1222 system works and all. Any ideas?

I've visited Penang twice, and each time on the first day I had vomiting and diahrrea, this after several months of no health problems in Thailand.

I'm about to make my third trip and would like to avoid whatever it is that's causing it, any ideas what it could be?

My theory is the water is supposed to be safe so they make ice out of tapwater there, so I guess i'll have to avoid ice, please don't tell me I can't have Roti Chanai!

I need to renew my Visa around Songkran time and am thinking of taking advantage of Air Asia's low fares.

Firstly are Thai Enmbassies/Consulates closed over Sonkran? If so what dates?

Bearing in mind I only need a single entry Non immigrant O based on marriage, which city or consulate would be the better to visit and why? Penang, Kl, or Johor Bahru then cross the border to Singapore. I plan to make a bit of a holiday of it and take the wife and mother in law.

Thanks.

I'm not sure if it has been reported yet on this forum but the Thai Consulate in Vientiane has moved. It's now not far from the Thai Embassy on That Luang Road down from the Malaysian embassy, look for a big Hyundai sign.

I'm off the Vientiene to get a 90 day non immigrant O visa and I just want to check I've got everything I need (most info on the site seems more for those working or wanting a one year extension), I figure I need:

Passport

Photocopies of passport, front and visa page

Laos Visa

Marriage certificate and photocopy

Copy of wifes id card or letter from wife (she will come with me)

Lots of passport photos

Anything else?

Do i need bank statements? If so I only have one 6 months old or can print one off the internet, which are they more likely to go for?

Thanks.

We went to the local immigration office today to clarify and it looks like I have to go to Laos, mai pen rai.

However what they said about the 12 month extension isn't consistant with what I thought was the case so I hope someone can clarify it for me.

They said that I can apply for the 12 month extension of a Non immigrant O if I have 200,000 baht in the bank AND am earning 20,000 baht from within Thailand, ie I'm working.

I always thought that an Non Immigrant O was for people who aren't working and those who are working needed a non immigrant B, is this not the case? Also according to the pamphlet they gave us last time I need to have 200,000 baht in the bank OR am earning 20,000 baht, no indication that this must be from within Thailand, have the rules changed recently?

The rationale that was given is that if I'm not working in Thailand then there is no reason for me to stay a long time, even though i'm married to a thai so they can only give a 3 month visa plus a 2 month extension, .

If this is correct it also begs the question once the rules chance to 400,000 plus 40,000 earnings within Thailand, how many farang can earn 40,000 baht from within Thailand? Doesn't make sense to me.

Oh, and apparently the reporting within 24 hours of returning from Laos is to advise them that my wife has married a foriegner so they can note it on her land registry.

Thanks.

I live in Udon and I'm a New Zealander.

My Gf has already been to to immigration but she is not sure she understood them as they were very busy at the time, a second visit is probably in order. My visa extension contains the words "must leave the kingdom" whereas all previos ones say something like "expires on:" which would tend to support the theory that i must get a new visa.

Thanks.

A few questions I hope somebody can help me with:

1. I entered Thailand on a Non-immigrant O Visa and after 3 months was able to get a further 3 months extension due to my being a monk at the time. My fiancee is not certain but the impression she got from immigration service is that because I've had 1 extension already I'm not eligable to apply for the 12 month extension once i'm married so must get a new Non immigrant O visa first. Does this sound correct?

2. She also got the impression that after crossing the bridge from Laos with the new non-immigrant O i must report to the immigration office in nongkhai within 24 hours. I can't think of why that is, unless they are expecting me to apply for the 12 month extension then and there. Does this sound correct?

3. My international drivers licence is valid for 12 months buton the inside cover it lists the countries it's valid in and next to Thailand it says (3 months), so I assume I can no longer drive legally in thailand. Is this correct?

Thanks for your help.