bigyin

You are correct but it is a good start. That plus pictures of us together as a family was enough for a visitor visa last year. Settlement visa more difficult but I am assuming that you are living together in Thailand so really if that has been the case for more than a few months and you have the kor por 14 together with photographic evidence covering a reasonable period of time then I would hope that would be enough. If you could get a letter from the natural father conceding that your wife has had sole custody and saying he has no objection to the move then that would make it perfect but that is not usually a runner.

But both durhamboy and myself have told you that you are wrong. You do need at least reading for your application and the test is a 1 score test over all 4 disciplines.

I think your situation is difficult and as a UK citizen I can well see why your applications are being refused. At the present time there is a huge feeling against people coming to the UK and taking advantage of the benefits available there. So to qualify for a visa you have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have a suitable sponsor and the means to ensure that you will have no recourse to state funding whilst in the UK. From what you have said I would not be happy that this was the case. Your sponsor does not appear to be able to show satisfactory evidence of funds and he is only a friend anyway and could simply pass on any obligations and you are unable to show that you have an employment record such as to satisfy the ECO that you can pay your way. I think you should wait until you have a proven track record of your own money. Graduation money from your mom just won't cut it. If I was the ECO I would not give you a visa either. Sorry!

Yes I would most strongly advocate applying for both at the same time. We did a visitor visa last year and have just handed in settlement visa applications about 1 week ago. The first question the staff at Trendy Building ask is do you have a letter from the local office confirming that you have sole custody? So first step is that I would get that and build a portfolio of evidence in terms of pictures showing you all as a family over as long a period of time as possible. Wise words from 7by7. The ECO will not just take your word for it that your wife has exercised sole responsibility for the child

Now you have changed the argument. Previously you said that you could just sit back and do nothing on the reading and writing..now you are saying that if you cannot read English how can you pass the tests for ILR. The 2 points are not in any way comparable. Firstly you have 5 years to prepare for the B1 test and the LITUK test after attaining A1 so plenty of time to improve. Secondly there is no actual requirement to be able to read and write English for a settlement visa so why should an applicant have to do that? It is utterly illogical! My wife can communicate in a most satisfactory way in terms of speaking and listening but reading and writing is not easy. She can do it and in 5 years time I don't have the slightest doubt she will be able to achieve both B1 and pass LITUK. But that is not the point...there is no current requirement for the applicant to be able to read and write English to obtain a settlement visa yet the test expects them to be able to do so.

Thanks durhamboy and just to expand on that the current test which most people do I think is the Key English Test (KET) and for this the A1 mark is 45 out of 100 so not particularly low and the mark is an overall score for the whole test. There are no scores for the individual parts just a candidate profile giving an indication that weak or better was achieved for each part. It sounds like up to now each change has actually made the test harder, not easier. We will have to wait and see what the latest change brings. I would be interested to hear if anyone's partner has scored less than 45 overall in the KET but got a visa on the strength of the candidate profile. My wife for example did pass with a score overall of 59. She attained good in speaking, weak/borderline in listening and just above weak in reading and writing. But if she had not got over 45 with below weak in reading and writing would the profile showing good and borderline/weak in speaking and listening have got her through? My understanding as well is that the ECO goes online to Cambridge English to verify the results so what do they get from them? The overall score or the individual elements on the candidate profile? The whole thing is a minefield and my concern is that someone reads a thread like this and things it is an easy pass. It is not.

That is just not correct. To do part of the listening test they have to be able to read the multi choice answers. Nobody could pass this test without some reading ability in English at least.

Yes you can cancel the appointment and re book online. I did this last year.

Sorry but it is just not correct to say that the A1 is easy to achieve. We have been through all this earlier in the thread and the point is that despite only requiring listening and speaking for visa purposes the tests require a level of reading to answer the listening element and the Thai applicants are tested on all 4 disciplines. For applicants with a completely different alphabet it is unnecessarily difficult. As an addition to this a UK citizen should be able to take their wife/husband back to the UK as a right and there should be no bar to negotiate be it high or low. My wife as an example can communicate perfectly well with me but she found the test very difficult. The point being made here is that the test is not testing the Thai applicants' ability to communicate adequately but far more than that.

If they do not have British passports there is a potential issue about the natural father of the children. Do you have his permission to take the children out of Thailand? A visit to the local office to get a letter confirming your wife has been in sole care of the children would be a good first step. This is the first question that the staff will ask at The Trendy Building, 'Do you have the letter?'. This should, I think, be your number 1 concern. You apply online and at that time you make an appointment and then print off the appointment confirmation with the application itself.

I don't think any reasonable person would dispute that immigrants to the UK should be expected to learn English but the very last group they should be tackling are spouses of UK citizens. By the very nature of the relationship this group speak English every day. At the end of the day a UK citizen should be entitled to bring their wife (or husband) back to the UK with them subject to a check that there is a proper relationship.

daveyravey I bet you didn't realise what a can of worms you would open when you started the thread!

I accept everything you say 7by7 and your advice on these forums has been invaluable to me and I assume many others but the inescapable fact is that there is at the very least a reading element to this test when there shouldn't be and I would not want anyone to go into this test thinking otherwise. In addition the applicants get caught up in the test and they don't have the time during the test to say to themselves 'this doesn't matter' because at that moment in time it does. No amount of telling them in advance helps when they are in there and being made to feel stupid by things like creating an e mail headed with 'Dear Sir' and ending 'yours faithfully' . It is irrelevant and actually not good English...who does that in an e mail? I think in actual fact everyone is in broad agreement it is just that some of us think the test is harder on the Thai applicants than perhaps you do. That doesn't matter really as long as anyone who reads this or other threads understands that the Thai applicant has to be able to read English to get A1 whatever UKVI may say. They do not create or administer the tests.

I don't think 7by7 is defending the policy either but I do think it is important that anyone reading these threads understands what is involved in taking the tests. It would be a terrible shock to someone if they went into the test expecting to only have to worry about speaking and listening. Something else I didn't mention is that at no time on the day of the test or on the prep days was it spelled out to the applicants that they didn't have to worry about the reading and writing. It is presented as 1 test which has to be passed in its entirety. As stated above the tests are a disgrace and not fit for purpose.

Sorry but I can't remember for sure. I do remember that it was quicker than I thought it would be and that I was very relieved that it worked. I was the same as you in that I wasn't sure I would get the money back. I will be surprised if there is a problem as despite our dislike of the system it all seems to work pretty well now in terms of the application.

My refund was processed quickly and without any problem whatsoever.

My experience above confirms that you can get the refund up to just before the biometrics stage and when I went with my wife last week she received the following

"To qualify for a refund of the visa fee, you must notify us in writing of your intention to withdraw the application. This must be received

Before Biometrics have been submitted and

Within 3 months and 7 days of the date the application was paid for"

It then gives details of how to claim the refund online. I can confirm that there is no problem with this.

My wife was full prepped about what was required..can't speak for the rest but she was a nervous wreck and as I said they do have to be able to read English to do the multi choice listening questions. I do not believe anyone should take this test thinking that reading and writing is irrelevant because it isn't. They must be able to read English to do the Key English Test which was the one my wife took. The tests are intrinsically not fit for purpose and I am not sure whether the changes in the pipeline will do anything to improve this.

Yes 7by7 I know that they don't use those parts but having sat with 7 or 8 very stressed out Thai ladies at Vantage Siam last September the very fact that they have to take these parts of the test has an adverse effect on their performance. They also do need to read the multi choice questions to do some of the listening parts of the test so reading English is a factor.. Bearing in mind that well over half of the time on the test is spent actually reading or writing you can imagine the effect this has. 1 poor lady was so stressed out that she actually had difficulty breathing before going in to do her first interview session. It is not an easy test as currently constituted. So you are technically correct but as explained it is not the whole story.

Is the visa not free as the wife of an EU citizen?

There is a big difference between living long term in a country including endorsing what that country stands for and becoming the citizen of a foreign country. I can well understand a Thai person's reluctance to take that step

Yes that's right you can request a refund right up until just before you have the biometrics done. That is the cut off point. I had this situation last year with my stepdaughter where I used the wrong form. They let me complete a new form at the centre and cancel the old application and as the biometrics hadn't been done on the first application I got a refund and they did the biometrics on the second application. Can't remember about the greying out but I can say that the refund was processed quickly and efficiently so i am sure yours is underway.

The TB test is likely to be straightforward but the English test most certainly is not so I would try to get that out of the way first. I don't know how good your wife's reading and writing is in English but if it is not so good then there is a chance of failure first time round. Most of the test as it currently stands involves reading and writing which makes it hard for people who have a different alphabet. After you have done the English test, get the TB done...it is valid for 6 months and then start assembling the supporting documents. I would not consider applying until you have everything ready as it takes a lot of time and effort to get everything gathered together. Good luck!

Good advice as always from theoldgit. I have just handed in a settlement visa application for my wife and stepdaughter so any specific questions can probably be answered. I did it myself but it is a matter of choice. Having said that I know of 2 applicants recently who used agents and were unsuccessful so using an agent is no guarantee of success.

My wife took this test last year and as you can say from your link it is heavily weighted towards reading and writing neither of which are required for visa purposes but have a huge effect on the ability of applicants to attain A1 standard (45 out of 100). The test is difficult for Thai people or indeed anyone whose alphabet is not the Roman alphabet. My wife said they were required to write an e mail of at least 20 words using the correct tense and properly headed and finished. They had to listen to pieces of conversation and then answer multi choice questions. So there was a partial memory test and even to do the listening part they had to be able to read the multi choice questions. The whole thing is a nonsense but in Thailand there is no way to avoid the reading and writing parts which really stressed out all the ladies who took part on the day my wife took the test. She did the 3 day prep course and I am sure she would have failed without it despite living with me for 3 years and speaking English with me every day. I think the Vantage Siam website still has quite a lot of information on the format of the tests but it is not easy that's for sure.