Fat Haggis

The answer to the "doctoring" grenades is no, the exposives (RDX/TNT) are sealed within a predominant steel shell,(it's this that causes the "fragmentation" there are however, smaller grenades, the size of a golf ball, that would obviously contain a less amount of exposives,

Some of the pictures being shown of the "persons of interest" do have a Military demeanour about them, posture etc.

Whether they're SEAL's or not is dabatable, Thai Navy SEAL's have a pretty tough selection process, and they have a lot better methods of killing, grenades= up lose and personnal, trying to break contact in a huge crowd baying for your blood isn't easy.

All we need to do is look at the frenzied mobs of Northern Ireleand in 1988 when the 2 Brit Squaddies were boxed in, and beaten and then executed, then again in Mogadishu in 93 .

Agreed. The Thai SEALs are actually pretty well regarded by their US mentors so this bandying about of the word SEAL is probably lazy journalism and misinformed public ("ooh look he's from the navy and he's got a gun, he must be a SEAL!").

Edit : then again, you could be the best trained super-soldier in the world but if you were given a stupid order . . .

Any Mission of a sensative nature includes Planning and Preparation, which would include the sanitising of all personal effects, no mobile phones, certainly NO ID's or anything that could incriminate you if you're compromised/captured.

Disinformation is also manipulated miss information, for as sure as there's shit in a dog, and it happens all the time!!

I recall a Pentagon spokesperson during Iraqi Freedom saying something along the lines of " I can categorically tell you that no Apache Helicopter was shot down, and if it had, it would have been destroyed in an airstrike" ....only to see an Apache Helicopter, one of the more sophisticated "D" (Longbow) versions looking pretty intact on the back o a flat bed driving through Baghdad!! Propaganda can indeed make you look like a knob too!!

The answer to the "doctoring" grenades is no, the exposives (RDX/TNT) are sealed within a predominant steel shell,(it's this that causes the "fragmentation" there are however, smaller grenades, the size of a golf ball, that would obviously contain a less amount of exposives,
Some of the pictures being shown of the "persons of interest" do have a Military demeanour about them, posture etc.
Whether they're SEAL's or not is dabatable, Thai Navy SEAL's have a pretty tough selection process, and they have a lot better methods of killing, grenades= up lose and personnal, trying to break contact in a huge crowd baying for your blood isn't easy.
All we need to do is look at the frenzied mobs of Northern Ireleand in 1988 when the 2 Brit Squaddies were boxed in, and beaten and then executed, then again in Mogadishu in 93 .

spare parts that fire BB's? the conspiracy theorists within the protestors is now claiming this is the work of Thai Navy SEAL's..
Yeah they'd use Airsoft guns to ......shoot people and sting then to death??? ..shooooooooaaaah!!!

spare parts that fire BB's? the conspiracy theorists within the protestors is now claiming this is the work of Thai Navy SEAL's..
Yeah they'd use Airsoft guns to ......shoot people and sting then to death??? ..shooooooooaaaah!!!

Yeah, I truly believe that a 6 year old and a 9 year old Thai child asked to be taken to the anti governemnt/corruption protest, most 6 -9 year olds I have known in my life wouldn't have a clue as to what a protest was!!
The Anti American rhetoric that's also coming from a certain face book writer with a cult following is getting a bit bonkers, old women who wouldn't know Obama if he sat in a tuk tuk with them are spouting out pure hatred. I thought this was a so called peaceful demonstration that was focused on getting the PM to stand down and against corruption, it seems like they now know this is a lost cause for the time being and now starting to harp on about US Foreign Policy over a letter that may or may not have come from a US Senator to President Obama regarding his plea to support the current caretaker PM, there is no Governemnt, it was absolved!! .. talk about smoke and mirrors!! ??

Why would he be in hospital? visiting the sick and injured? when he ran out of that vehicle, he didn't show any signs of injuries, that's not to say he didn't have any shrapnel wounds, it is entirely plausable, but "speculators" seem to be pretty accurate in quite a few of their observations.
Maybe the CAPO has been reading all this and though, " <deleted> me, these guys might just be onto somthing here, and the fact that my cops coudn't find a donut in a box, this could get me off the hook!! "

Simplest thing is for the driver, who would also be a key "witness" to come forward, to be eliminated.

Opps sorry, eliminated from their inquiries!!

What's wrong with speculating? is it harming anyone? Do you watch such programs as CSI series, and speculate as to who the perp was?

I don't believe for one minute you have never watched a crime thriller, and based on what you've seen, made deductions (speculated) as to the outcome??

It's not harming anyone I could see your point if this was being discussed with a couple of REAL Detectives, but it's not, it's a bunch of guys analysing a video, and making their observations known, For example I don't see any towel, I see a flag , I don't see anything bounce and hit the vehicle either, so people see things very differently, does it matter who's right and who's wrong? No, will it make a difference to the investigation? .No, is it harming you in any way ? NO..

Have a nice day!!

The PDRC do all they can to discredit the police as it is, they see and hear and read what they want to read, there's no reasoning or rationale or applied logic whilst their passions and tempers and frustrations are high..I do think it's a fair assesment that the grenade wasn't lobbed or dropped from a building

That would indeed go a long way to explain why the crowd were oblivious to anything,

Whybother, exactly mate!! The spin was an Assasination attempt

Why drop it there?? where there's not many people, why not do it where there's more of a crowd, maximising the damage??

(changing hats from the logical to cynical)

Collateral damage is widely accepted during warfare is it not??

(Changing hats back)

Have they located the driver yet and interviewed him?

Back to the same logic, though, why not throw the grenade, if it was from a window, when the crowd was at it's deepest?

Who knows why it was thrown then? Maybe it wasn't planned, but someone just decided that it was a good chance to do it. Maybe they wanted to blow up the car.

An unplanned assasination attempt sounds a little bit suspect, given that in the minutes after this attack, they produced an array of items, and an ID and a red shirt hat, who taught the assasin to throw the grenade Stevie Wonder??

There's too many variables, I'm sure that a thorough investigation by the real CSI Bangkok will place Lord Lucan firmly at the scene along with Miss Scarlet and a candelabra !!

If it wasn't for the fact there has been a fatality, and seriously injured innocent people, it would almost be borderline Keystone Cops !

Why drop it there?? where there's not many people, why not do it where there's more of a crowd, maximising the damage??
(changing hats from the logical to cynical)
Collateral damage is widely accepted during warfare is it not??
(Changing hats back)
Have they located the driver yet and interviewed him?
Back to the same logic, though, why not throw the grenade, if it was from a window, when the crowd was at it's deepest?

Statesmen and Politicians throught History have sometimes been murdered by those closest to them
Muslims frequently shelled their own villages in Bosnia and blame it on the Serbs, and relied on Public support to maintain they were the "victims"

"All warfare is based on deception"

Longway, if the grenade was thrown, as claimed from above, I see no smoke trail entering the frame from above, I neither see any smoke trail in the vicinity of the car door either, I do see the the flag waver and there appears to a white portion if that's the area you're seeing this "smoke" , but to me that just looks like the movement of the flag.. can you see if you can grab a screen shot of this smoke trail at all, as I'm not convinced this grenade came from above as claimed, I'm trying to get a fram by frame editor to see into this picture a bit more.

I will advise Michael Yon not to tell lies too since many of the op here are teling us the "fact" that many protesters are actually paid to come for the protest.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151913681800665&set=a.229275785664.134574.207730000664&type=1&theater

The peoples champion?? Has a cult following, deletes anyone whose opinion is deemed pro Government/Abhist/Suthep..follows him like a good PR Manager does, he has a massive following, who better to champion their cause? Wouldn't be surprised if Khun Suthep's been beefing up Mr Yon's account personally.

Social Network sites are very powerful propaganda tools, look at the London Riots, Facebook was used to co-ordinate times, places and dates.

He incites more then he reports, refuses to travel to Issan and other pro areas, makes excuses about the story being Bangkok, he's advocated publishing the names and addresses of the opposition to include social venues, which blatantly puts peoples lives at risk.

Then there's his "groupies" say anything negative about him, then they ridicule and attempt to belittle them, Elitism anyone?

Wouldn't you stop if something hit your car? It's normal reaction. The bomb hits the car, bounces off, explodes.

M26 hand grenade, maximum thrown range around 30m, it takes about 5 seconds to explode. Let's say the attacker threw it from around 15-20 metres, maybe a second or a little bit more to reach the truck, another 3 seconds to explode. So it's possible. Nothing unusual.

Entirely plausable, however..given the number of people around the vicinity of the vehicle, there would have been more chance of the "device" hitting a protestor before hitting the car, but nobody reacts till the device explodes.

If something hits your car, you tend to get out and check the damage first, I'd like to see an interview with the driver, as tragic as it is that someone lost their life, he's a key witness, as he could have been the potential target?? Shock can and invarioubly does make people do crazy things, which would explain him running off perhaps?

even something as small as a grenade at that distance would be picked up "dropping" into the crowd, how many times do you notice small birds (feathered kind) flit in and out of frames??

Who needs CSI-Bangkok?? We'll work it all out ourselves

Pretty sure the old L2 grenades used to "smoke" a bit like that, but the general rule is people don't tend to watch them after they've been thrown, they're too busy trying to duck!!
Grenades also make a distinctive sound when they go off, nothing like the movies.

The driver does act in a very unusual manner, he legs it past the casualties lying on the ground, either fright, flight or fear.
Has the driver been located and interviewed?
Nobody reacts they didn't suspect or expect this, if something fell from a height, unless it was made of putty, it would bounce, and people would scatter, you can't see anything enter the frame from above, nor observe anything bounce!

The driver of the car got out and ran past the casualties that were lying on the ground, fright? Flight? fear?
I've watched this many many times, and I cannot detect any object coming in from an elevated position, there's no reaction from the crowd either, if something large like a rock or a grenade landed the reaction is to scatter, nobody in this clip moved, or appeared to be alalrmed.
The wiping of the grenade is "suspect" you can see a flag waving protestor waving about the same time, it's possible you're seeing the flag itself?

None the less it's an "intersting clip"
They said they found also inside , times, dates and routes, where would that information come from? either very good survaillance, or someone on the inside. The weapons being shown are airsoft, the batteries and one of the manufacturers boxes can be seen as well.

For all the claims of the Red shirts/Black shirts being Paramilitaries, and assasins etc, this attempt look like it was conducted, by Zippy and Bungle!!
Lets leave all our redhirt paraphanallia behind so that the Cops can find it, and they will know it was us!!???
Who gains more from this incident? certainly not the Government, nor the opposition, In Bosnia, Muslims were known to shell their own people to finger point and gain popular support for their cause.Not saying this is the case, but Sun Tzu stated "All warfare is based on deception"

Thank you for allowing me to join your forum, living in Korat with my girlfriend for 16 months now, love the place and love the people, followed the forum news on my ipad for a while and have enjoyed many of the topics, and bit the bullet as they say and decided to register.
I hope that I can through time contribute to the huge and diverse topics that are here.

Many thanks

One person that many Thais have cited as someone I should follow to "understand" the opposition's position is Michael Yon. I guess they think we farang all think alike.

Here is a recent Facebook entry on his page: http://www.facebook.com/MichaelYonFanPage/posts/763169057044150

For those who avoid Facebook, it's a entry about John Sparks interviewing Dr. Seri. In it, Michael Yon states that … "The Whistlers are a peaceful lot. If John Sparks tried this at a 2010 Red Shirt rally, there is a strong chance he would be killed within minutes -- or badly wounded."

I remember a couple of foreign journalist injured after the poo hit the paddle. But, I don't recall any incidents of any journalists being attack by "the red mob".

But, during this current rally, by the "peaceful lot", I have lost count of the physical attacks on the press.

BTW,

I believe Michael Yon fits somewhere between Suthep and Abhisit when it comes to impartiality.

It didn't help when Michael Yon also called on his "followers" to print the names and addresses and socialising locations of the red shirt leadership, give him his due, he has a very strong cult following, although his reporting, oops sorry he's not a reporter, his writing is very very ne sided, and all his followers seem to believe that his word is the whole truth and nothing but ...