pbrane

we all feel for you at this time in your life , it cant be easy for you , you have reached a crossroad in your development , you must either grow up and get on with your life , or remain forever a fussy westerner spoilt beyond belief.

perhaps you should go into therapy to help you resolve this terrible and obviously debilitating conflict in your life. you must be tearing your hair out with anxiety.

people here in hua hin are throwing themselves off hi rise balconies regularly as the terrible hardship of having to watch yet another traumatic eastern sunrise causes deep feelings of depression , insecurity and neglect . having to live with the painful deprivation of never having over the water sunsets is truly one of the biggest causes of stress , heart disease and inane postings on expat forums in western society today.

people starving in africa and people living amongst the bombs of baghdad have it easy compared

with the daily torture that the unfortunates , the untouchables , and the forgotten long suffering martyrs of hua hin have to endure day after day.

from the US......me too!

i'd never have guessed.

In addition, I'm not so hot about living in the center of tourist area anyway and don't mind a bit distance from the spot

have you considered the malarial swamplands of western borneo ? sounds just the place for you.

...truly masterful sarcasm. Best laugh I've had in some time. Thanks (and I'm not being sarcastic-ha)

Hi:

I see there are a number of "spas" or healing centers in Thailand but the prices I've seen on the internet so far seem about the same as in the west (too high). There must be a place to go for a reasonbly-priced colonic..?

thanks!

-pb

Thanks a lot for the great info. I've been doing some more research into real estate in Floripa and I see that things aren't too bad (decent-looking condos for us$50k-100k). What's a calabresa sandwich? And am I more likely to "meet my match" (woman) in Brasil or Thailand?

Thanks again,

pb

pbrane, I spend many months a year in Brasil. I am stuck in Tailand rest of the year because I am stuck with a very nice Thai girl which I know for 4 years, and so used to be together with her and feel too pity to dump her after all these times together. Thats my situation. But still manage to go Brasil several times a year for releif and side dishes.

The living expenses in Brasil do not differ to Tailand. A month rent of a upper middle level big high rise studio in centro Floripa is about 150-400 Euros. For very nice one bed room condo ocean view maybe around 300-500 Euros. On the beaches outside of centro, can rent nice 1-2 bed room beach condo for 300-500 Euros per month. The price is about the same in coastal Sao Paulo or coastal Rio de Janeiro.

Mac is considered very expensive compared to local foods. For 1 nice meal, for example, por kilo( you get what you want buffet style and charge by the weight) about 6-8 reais or about 2.5-3.2 USD will make you full. Cheap churrascaria is only about 12-15 reais, buffet all you can eat meats and salads. Big calabresa sandwitch in the street corner bars is 2-3 reais, make you full.

So for me as Brasil old timers, Brasil is cheaper than Thailand in living expenses and the living quality and atmosphere is so much much better than Thailand or Costa Rica in these towns I mentioned.

why is protecting himself and his staff important?

Because they are exposed to Hg vapors while removing it -unless they use proper protocols (suction etc). Dentists' brains, on autopsy, usually have very levels of Hg in them (serves them right?)

..yes, it's very important that you find a dentist who knows how to protect you (and himself and his staff) from the vapors etc.

As for proof, I recommend that you do your own research. There must be a zillion articles by now, along with at least 10 books on the subject, citing many studies. Even the WHO (World Health Org.) has stated that they're unsafe. There's a class-action lawsuit getting going in Canada now, and there are number of european countries that have outlawed Hg fillings for pregnant women and kids. What more do you want? I know it's a hard bit on info to"chew," -especially if you have a mouthful of poison, like I did.......

If you have any questions, I'd be happy to help

Thanks for the info on brasil. It's been on my list of potential retirement places for awhile. I spent a month there 25 years ago..when it was cheap. I would also be interested in the Floripa area or Ubatuba etc. BUT... hasn't it gotten a bit expensive? The real has strengthened quite a bit lately, no? The Big Mac index (for a perhaps bad example) has Brasil at us$2.57 and Thailand at us$1.52. Have you been there lately? And, why are you on ThaiVisa if you are happy with Brasil?

Thanks!

For retirement or long stay, I very strongly suggest Brasil as top choice. Costa Rica is very nice, have been there once, but lack of variety of scenery so is Tailand. Brasil's coastal towns in states of Sao Paulo , Rio, Santa Catarina ect, are attracting lots of long stayers now. There are tons of very very safe and absolutely beautiful towns in the coastal southeast region and the living expenses are the same as tailand.

I have been to all these towns like in state of Sao Paulo: Guaruja, Riviera Sao Lourenco, Sao Vicente, Bertioga, Ubatuba, ect ect, and many others more along the litoral sao Paulo.

And in state of Rio: Cabo Frio, Angras dos Reis, Buzios, ect.

and my favorite of all Florianopolis or Floripa in state of Santa Catarina's capital. All these coastal cities are much safer than Bangkok or Pattaya and thousand times more scenic. You can switch places any times, just too many nice towns, never get bored.

The cost of living in the coastal towns are much cheaper than Sao Paulo or Rio these hectic cities. The cost is about the same as living in Tailand or can be cheaper. But these towns are absolutely beautiful scenic, that Tailand has no comparison to at all, also for us guys, its double paradise as well, full of beautiful garotas of every imaginable varieties. Also the food and fruits are so good there. One more thing, Brasil is very visa friendly, for most of us are 90 days visa free with extendable to 180 days, and also extendable again after that by situations. For US nationals, it's 10 year visa, each stay 90 days, and extendable to 180 days or more. Very visa friendly.

If I am getting to the retirement age, for me it's coastal SP, Rio, and Floripa, no second choice. Brasil beat Tailand and Costa Rica by light years in the retirement atmosphere and quality. If you check out coastal SP or Rio or Floripa, your life will be changed.

I've been following this issue (Hg poisoning from fillings) for about 20 years and am also interested to know if there are any good mercury-free dentists in Thailand. I've found a number of dentists that do composites and can do the metal-free bridge I need, but as for safe removal of Hg, I'm not sure. There was a "holistic" dentist mentioned on the site of a Phuket health spa. I'll try to find the link again.

As for the quackwatch people, they've been getting laughed out of court lately, unable to support their claims that mercury and root canals are safe. They even went after my dentist here in Wisconsin, and the judge threw the case out. I had my amalgams (16 of 'em) removed 12 years ago and am currently doing chelation therapy to get the remaining POISON out of my brain...

I'm sort of in the "same boat" as the original poster. Except that I'd much prefer Panama or maybe Argentina or Uruguay to Costa Rica. I've done quite a bit of traveling in Latin America and speak some spanish, but yet I'm still considering a trip to LOS to check it out. I never liked the crime (and it seems to be getting worse) all over Latin America (except for maybe Chile and Uruguay?). But one of my requirements is access to nice beaches with warm water... I've been trying to decide where to go for years now. Sometimes I think maybe I should just stay here in the states. It's extremely safe and quiet where I am...and I've learned how to live quite cheaply....but cold winters and boredom can really get to me (not to mention a distinct lack of available, attractive women).

TC,

Why don't you compare the Philippines with Thailand. Central America, and Asia is very hard to compare.

Barry

I asked about Costa Rica because it so much easier to get to. I know if I want to deal with the 20 hour flight there are lots of interesting places in Asia. I want to spend half my time in the USA and half my time overseas. I dread the long flights to Asia.

Later guys.

Business opportunity?

The thought of opening a gym had crossed my mind ...that is if I can't find what I need. And all the membership fees that I've heard in Thailand seem quite high to me. Here in the states, I have access to a big YMCA that has 2 big gyms, 3 pools, all the machines, bikes weights etc that I could ever need, and the price is much less than I'd pay for a crappy place in LOS.

Anyway, thanks alot for the help!

-pb

..just a few thoughts: I left the "rat race" when I was 39 (and I'm in the USA) about 10 years ago. I did it on a "shoestring" and have managed to double it since then, and I'm not a great investor (but learning). I say that it all comes down to how motivated you are, how much you hate your job, how resourceful you are etc. For me, it's not worth dying of boredom in a crappy job for 5 or 10 more years just to afford a few more luxuries. I like the simple things like staying fit (a bicycle, a fitness club membership, books, swimming, nature, good nutritious food etc). I've read aLOT of threads on how much it takes to retire and am consistently puzzled by the large amounts people say they need. Maybe Thailand isn't so cheap afterall? I think I can actually live cheaper in the US, but then, there are no beaches where I am...and...I'm doing without health insurance right now, which may be a bit risky (and that's one of the main reasons I'm looking at Thailand..).

Anyway...I'm living (maybe "living" is too strong a word -ha) on the equivalent of about 25,000 baht here in the US (but house is paid for), so I'd think I could do it better in LOS..(?). Of course, my plan is to continue living below my means and (hopefully)building up the net worth so I can really kick back when I'm say...60 or so.

thanks and best of luck to all of us..

The Grand Sport Gym is kind of training gym for boxers. I know a scary Thai lady who is super fit and pretty cut who works there . Alot of the condo developments have their own free weights and weight machines too of varied suitability and completeness.

Thanks to all for your input.

Any recommendations on good, quiet condos with halfway-decent weights and/or machines?

Thanks again!

-pb

Hi Hua Hinnites:

I've never been to HH, and am wondering if there are any decent gyms (for weightlifting) in the area? I saw something about "Grand Sports" gym and had a website, but it didn't work.

Also, would you consider the area "bicycle-friendly?"

Thanks,

-pb

I thought it was age 50 for a retirement visa (where you deposit 800,000 baht in the bank etc)...? Where did 52 come from?

Thanks,

-pb

As your under 52 you can't get a retirement visa so no amount of money in the bank will help you

pb

In View Talay 2 A/B the annual fee is B3600 for a studio of 37/41 square metres, I'm not sure if it's the same for the larger 60/65sqm units. I believe it's the same per unit in View Talay 1 A/B.

Center Condo is about B100 per square metre per year.

Thanks for the numbers...but that seems really low. I would have guessed it would be more like $us30/month to maybe $us60/month. Are you talking about taxes? If they're really that low, it's great. And what does it cover? Usually the fee will cover things like security; and common area electricity, insurance, upkeep, garbage etc. and maybe pool and gym use.

pb

Sorry, no I didn't mean rent, but rather the monthly association fees or dues or whatever it's called in different countries, paid by the owners.

Thanks again

pb

Do you mean rent; or the service fees if you own the condo?

Hello people:

I'm researching the economics of living in a condo in Pattaya or Jomtien or maybe Rayong, and would like to know what typical condo fees (monthly) are like. Also, unless you prefer to not answer to stay anonymous, tell me which building or complex or project you're referring to.

Also, any comments regarding how quiet these buildings are would be great. (can you hear everything your neighbor does etc?)

Thanks alot!

pb

Hi

For you folks living on Phuket (or lived there in the past, or visited long-term etc), what are the negatives: crime? noise? rip-offs? pollution? nothing? Sorry to bring up the negative side, but there are things that I probably wouldn't be able to handle on a long-term basis and am just trying to rule different places in or out. My requirements would be: a quiet (and not too expensive -maybe 5000 to 12000/mo) rental house or condo, within a short cycle ride to a beach, and not too far from a gym or fitness center. I guess that maybe describes many places on Phuket??

Sorry for the naive questions, but I haven't been there. Just trying to stir up some useful comments...for which I'm very grateful!

Thanks

Hi PB,

In answer to your questions. I rent a small 2 bedroom "Thai style" wooden house, small kitchen,western bathroom, small garden area. I don't have AC but am thinking I will get a small unit for my bedroom as April is just way too hot.....I have moved around a bit since first coming over and have settled on Nai Harn as it suits my lifestyle interests. I first lived in Chalong then moved to Kata for nicer beach/surf. NH has a great beach, more community less touristy/road traffic than Kata and rents a bit cheaper. There are lots of neat places to live here,....you just have to look round and see what fits. Now its "busy" season so not much rental selection, but come slow season and there will be many deals around....A car/truck is not "necessary", I did fine for a year with just the motorbike.....but....I have a kayak/surfboard that are much easier to lug round on the truck than the sidecar of a motorbike. Also enjoy taking the truck off island for province adventures and of course the rain can make the longer bike rides a bit...damp...but definitely not a must IMHO. I subscribe to Rawai Cable...something like 40 channels, bout half are in English. Good news selection(Cnn, BBC, Fox, ABC), couple movie channels, Star Network(shit coms mostly....lots of sports channels but mostly showing soccer(if you must have ESPN you must do UBC!).....

Before moving to Thailand I was living a fairly luxurious lifestyle in Hawaii....big house, condo,girlfriends, lots of toys! and went through huge amounts of money while working myself to death in process. I am living my modest lifestyle by choice, not necessity.

I know people living fairly comfy on even less than me and have good friends who go through 100K/month easily.....My experience has been that there are 3 more expensive areas that can inflate your monthly outgo......1. Girls 2. Bars 3. Health

Avoiding the pitfalls, being somewhat moderate in partaking of the fun stuff and keeping your health are at least for me the goals/challenges. Good luck!

Dear T-Dog:

Thanks so much for your very helpful posts! I can understand about needing a truck or car to carry the surfboard and for the rainy season etc. I've always wanted to try surfing. Maybe I'll hit you up for a lesson if I ever get my doofiss over there.. Speaking of Hawaii, I looked long and hard at moving to the Big Island, but the sunny side is now way too expensive, and the rainy side is way too rainy (and lava-y).

I'm a big natural health nut and that's why I decided to leave the rat race 10 years ago ---my hair was turning gray fast but has since slowed down. My priorities/interests in Thialand would be: clean air, food, water (clean beaches etc); a place to work out (weights etc); maybe a place to ride a bicycle without getting killed/mamed; access to massage and acupuncture etc. I'd be open for some "dating." I wonder if it's possible to find anyone other than bargirls(?).

I also choose to live below my means by choice. I'm living cheaply now in hopes of a larger "payout" later in life. Sometimes I wonder if I should just start blowing the wad and have a good time. But I've been living like a college student for so long that I don't know if I COULD spend a lot of moola......

I hear laughing in the background..

thanks again,

-pb

G, Well, I have been living here in Phuket for 3 years so far....and yeah the $/B per month rest of your life question is a widely variable number based on all thats previously mentioned. What I do know is that the longer I am here, the better my feel for such numbers and also finding better values. I initially came to retire but after 6 months got a little bored so started teaching English to keep my mind from turning to mush....I believe I was spending around B50,000/month when first here but that has gone down as I have figured out a few thingies.....

Anyway my numbers seem low even to me...but I have I guess a pretty modest lifestyle......

Rent: 5,000/mo-small house less than 5 min from Nai Harn Beach

Water/elec: Free

Gas: 50

Internet: 500 for dial up

Cable TV: 450 ok, its not as great as UBC, but enough for me...

Phone: 800

Motor bike/truck: 1500 fuel and servicing

Auto Insurances: 500

Health Insurance: 1500

Food/Drink: 10,000

Entertainment: 5,000

Misc. Expenses: 5,000

I think I spend more money on beer than food...but thats my biggest vice .....so its fairly consistent about 30K per month....unless I travel out of country...and I don't plan on it this year sooooo there ya go....Rent is a big area where you can spend a lot more money....or take your time and find a deal, especially during the slow season.....lots and lots of interesting places for reasonable(for Phuket anyway) rents and this can keep your budget way down....good luck!

Thanks alot for the numbers. Your budget makes more sense to me than most others'. A few questions: what's your house like (what do you get for 5000/mo?); do you really need a car or truck as opposed to a little cycle (especially if a person doesn't need to be anywhere like work?); what's on TV for 450?; and any general comments on what you like about Naiharn or living in Thailand in general would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again,

-pb

OK......... everyone will have their own version according to personal situation/habits/wants. FWIW, here's what I worked out as a per-month budget for living reasonably comfortably in Chiang Mai - which has the reputation of being noticeably cheaper than Phuket (maybe 15-20% cheaper?). It assumes that I already own a car and motorbike; the house rental is a top-end figure that I reckon to get down to about 10,000 after a while. I also assume eating mainly a mix of Thai/European food at home, mainly Thai food out and the occasional European meal out. It also assumes that I already own a car and motorbike - and yes, I do think I need both.

Rent 15,000

Electricity 3,500

Water 200

Gas 80

Internet (ADSL) 1,250

TV package 2,100

Telephone 1,000

Mobile 600

M/bike (fuel, tax etc) 400

Car (fuel, tax etc) 1,000

Car insurance 2,000

Food 7,500

Entertainment 10,000

Total p.m. 44,630

On top of this total, I would allow a further 20,000 a month for sundries, travel, scuba and contingency (I plan to self-insure healthwise). That brings the total to a figure of about 59-64k per month. Pick and mix as you like, but I can't help feeling that 27,000 is at best half of what's required to live and provide some flexibility to explore LOS, relieve boredom and treat myself/friends - in other words enjoy life rather than just exist somewhere different.

As I've mentioned on previous occasions, I would allow at least a 10% drop in the exchange rate - i.e. reckon with a stronger baht in the future. That's before you take inflation into account - but maybe your $ income will keep pace with that.............

Thanks for the input. So Thailand is NOT so cheap, is it? Your electricity bill is almost us$90/mo. I lived in FLorida in a big house and my bill averaged less than half of that. Can anyone tell me what dial-up internet costs? Regarding TV, is there any cheaper way to get some english-language programming? $50/mo is too much. Your car insurance is also much higher than I pay here (us$30/mo for full coverage on Honda Civic). The other item that is way high for me is entertainment @10,000 bt. I don't think I could ever come close to that. And the extra 20,000: probably more like 5000 for me, as I'd snorkel rather than scuba; and an occaisonal trip within the country by bus...how much could it be?

Thanks for the discussion..

Hi all:

I've been reading message strings like this on cost of living in Thailand for months trying to decide if I should consider it for retirement. I'm 50 and in very good health, no drinky and no smokey. I always come away wondering if I should just stay in the US cuz it seems like I can stay retired here cheaper than in LOS. But then quality of life issues arise (no attractive women, snow instead of beaches, boredom etc). I'd like to see some budget breakdowns on just what you folks are spending all the money on..? I can "live" here in around us$700/mo (house is paid but I pay 100-200/mo in taxes; and no trips included in that).

My guess (from afar) on expenses in Phuket (rough estimates):

(please correct me)

rent small house (maybe Chalong?): 12000 baht/mo

food (i like to cook myself, but including a few meals out/week): 6150 bt/mo

electric: 1640 bt/mo

dial-up i-net: 820/mo

phone: 820/mo

sat TV: 820/mo

gas for honda cycle: 410/mo (i like to bicycle a lot; or are neither of these activities recommended for safety's sake?)

misc (clothes, laundry, ??): 2050/mo

gym membership: 1230/mo??

entertainment: 1230/mo??

that's 27,170 (us$663) so far... And for many of the above, I spend less here in the US on (ex: gym is $8/mo; no sat TV; phone is $13; dial-up is $11; elec is $30 etc...)

I realize that this doesn't include trips home or health insurance. But then, I don't have insurance here now and that's one of the reasons I'm considering the move: to be able to either afford it, or to pay out of pocket for things as they arise..

Thanks for any comments!!

-confused

I haven't been to LOS yet, and posts about noise like this may keep me from going. I'm looking for a cheap place to retire, but peace and quiet are a prerequisite. I wonder if it would be quieter in an expat-filled condo? Or maybe a house way out of town somewhere? It's a big country... it seems like a person should be able to find SOMEplace quiet to live..??

Thanks.

pb

Hi everyone:

I'm looking for potential places to live/retire and am wondering about noise in Chiang Mai. Is it possible to find a place to live away from barking dogs, crowing chickens, fireworks, honking horns etc?

Any comments or experiences appreciated!

-pb

Hi you expatz:

As a person from the USA contemplating doing the early retirement thing and moving to Thailand, I'd be interested in hearing about how much food costs in the markets (or wherever decent quality, fresh veggies etc are found)..? Any examples of a few common fruits and veggies would be great!

thankZ!

-m

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where are you planning on settling down mate?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good question.. Studying the question from afar, I'm thinking a beach area: Pattaya? Hua Hin? Krabi? But I won't know 'til I get there. Not really into the "nightlife" of Pattaya, but from what I can glean from the internet, real estate and rentals seem more numerous and maybe cheaper than some of the other places (maybe overbuilt?). But then I might move between somewhere in the north Udon(?) and a beach area.......

Thanks,

-m

Hi you expatz:

As a person from the USA contemplating doing the early retirement thing and moving to Thailand, I'd be interested in hearing about how much food costs in the markets (or wherever decent quality, fresh veggies etc are found)..? Any examples of a few common fruits and veggies would be great!

thankZ!

-m