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Wonder why Saraburi has so high reading? Its proximity to Bangkok? Factories, industries in Saraburi?

I don't know either but it is a regular occurrence, it seems Saraburi is always at the top (usually way above Bangkok).

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I guess somebody at the Ministry felt a need to prove that he/she is working. Actually, the North has very good air quality with low levels of particulate matter at the moment. This is particularly true in comparison with large portions of the rest of Thailand, see graph:

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Here's a song that comes to my mind whenever the Chiang Mai 'environmental disaster' is brought up:

POLLUTION

If you visit American city,

You will find it very pretty.

Just two things of which you must beware:

Dont drink the water and dont breathe the air.

Pollution, pollution,

They got smog and sewage and mud.

Turn on your tap and get hot and cold running crud.

See the halibuts and the sturgeons

Being wiped out by detergents.

Fish gotta swim and birds gotta fly,

But they dont last long if they try.

Pollution, pollution,

You can use the latest toothpaste,

And then rinse your mouth with industrial waste.

Just go out for a breath of air,

And you'll be ready for medicare.

The city streets are really quite a thrill.

If the hoods dont get you, the monoxide will.

Pollution, pollution,

Wear a gas mask and a veil.

Then you can breathe, long as you don't inhale.

Lots of things there that you can drink,

But stay away from the kitchen sink.

The breakfast garbage that you throw in to the bay,

They drink at lunch in San Jose.

So go to the city, see the crazy people there.

Like lambs to the slaughter,

They're drinking the water

And breathing <cough> the air.

(Tom Lehrer, ~1965)

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It seems that for some reason the above posters have accepted as a fact that dual citizenship is not allowed in Scandinavia. Scandinavia proper consists of three countries, Denmark, Norway and Sweden. Out of these I know that Sweden allows dual citizenships since 1 July 2001. My g/f got her Swedish citizenship a few years ago with the Swedish authorities well aware of her Thai citizenship.

Sometimes the word Scandinavia is used in a slightly wider sense to include Finland, which incidentally also allows dual citizenship (in this case since 1 June 2003).

Facts are wonderful things

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Isn't it time to revive the old idea of barbequeing the animals at Night Safari and serving them to the visitors. That ought to really lure the 'quality' tourists...

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On my first visit to Asia, I had to see Chiang Mai for myself. In less than ten days, decided to move here from the other side of the planet. Moved to Hua Hin once, but came back a year later. Thought about Mexico and Filllypeens, but I can't see that they're nearly as good as Amphur Muang, Chiang Mai.

Nothing wrong with Amphur Hang Dong, either

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Went to Chatuchak to renew the driver's license.

License ends on January 15th. Thought to arrange the renewal some days before.

Or you want an expired driver's license?

There two beautiful ladies told me that the "system is blocked".

Meaning: You can only renew your driver's license on or after the day of expiry.

What I will tell the nice officer in brown? I ask the ladies. If I get caught with an invalid license.

They, smilingly: No problem if old license, tamruat knows.

Well then, another morning wasted.

Should have known.

Yes, had exactly the same experience before Christmas. There i was, all organised and prepared for renewing my soon to be expired licence, when they told me i could only renew after it has expired. Apparently you have a year from when it expires to renew. If you don't before then, then you have to start the process again.

Quite why you can't renew before the darn thing has expired though is beyond me. TIT. Enuff said.

If your present license is a one-year one ("temporary") then you will be changing to a five-year one. One requirement for getting a five-year license is having had your previous one for more than one year. Logical conclusion : Your old license must have expired...

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Does anybody know if there are any Swedish restaurants in Chiang Mai. I have a hankering for some Pitta Panna (excuse the spelling) or sausage stroganoff? When I used to live in Phuket there were Swedish restaurants everywhere but I don't remember seeing any here in CM.

Cheers and TIA...

It should be "Pyttipanna", but I am not sure if you can find it in Chiang Mai. I do however know that "Korv Stroganoff" is served at "Mr Chan & Miss Pauline", at least at their Canal Rd branch (on the right hand side just after the Night safari Rd, coming from town). I suspect the Huay Kaew branch would serve it as well. While we're at it, try their "Shoemaker's Steak" as well, it is really nice

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Thanks Priceless. Where exactly in Huay Kaew road is their shop located?

This is what I got off a quick Google (I have only been to the Canal Rd branch):

Mr.Chan & Miss Pauline

Pizza , Pasta , Steak , Salad & Thai food

16/1 Huay Kaew Rd.,

A.Muang , Chiangmai , Thailand

Tel. 053-400018

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Does anybody know if there are any Swedish restaurants in Chiang Mai. I have a hankering for some Pitta Panna (excuse the spelling) or sausage stroganoff? When I used to live in Phuket there were Swedish restaurants everywhere but I don't remember seeing any here in CM.

Cheers and TIA...

It should be "Pyttipanna", but I am not sure if you can find it in Chiang Mai. I do however know that "Korv Stroganoff" is served at "Mr Chan & Miss Pauline", at least at their Canal Rd branch (on the right hand side just after the Night safari Rd, coming from town). I suspect the Huay Kaew branch would serve it as well. While we're at it, try their "Shoemaker's Steak" as well, it is really nice

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It seems most of you suggest to use Thai passport.

However, my concern is what if the immigration / passport control when exiting Thailand ask me for a proof to enter the US, what should I do?

As I said, in Feb 2007 I travelled with Thai passport and my green card and the immigration officer somehow asked for a proof to enter the US. At the time I showed my green card. So I don't know I will get the same guy who might ask for a proof to enter the US.

What's the disadvantage of using US passport in Thailand anyways?

Thanks.

What's your worry, it is perfectly legal for a Thai citizen to have dual citizenships. If Thai immigration ask you for proof that you can legally enter the US, show them your US passport.

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Please look at the pinned subject above "Hotels-Hospitals-Doctors..."

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Remember though, those numbers above are an average of the last 10 years. imho I think that the next few years are going to be more like 2007 than 1997. [...]

It seems to be generally agreed that the main causes of air pollution in Chiang Mai (and the rest of northern Thailand) are forest fires, whether accidentally or intentionally started, and the traditional burning of agricultural waste, such as rice husks etc. The main reason for the extended and unusually bad pollution in CM in 2007 was an extremely persistent inversion that prevented any dispersion of the polluted air.

It would be interesting to know whether you base your forecast for the next few years on an expectation of increasing numbers/sizes of forest fires, increasing burning of agricultural waste or increased frequency/duration of inversions, or on a combination of these factors?

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PS I wish you all the best in your new location

Thanks for reminding us that some simple joys of life are still possible

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Thank Priceless - voice of reason.

Much obliged, sir

First of all and for the record: I couldn't agree more that any level of air pollution is bad and that all reasonable actions should be taken to reduce it! I also have a lot of respect for people's problems, whether real or perceived, with the pollution.

However, what I have tried to do with my previous submissions to this thread is to put the discussion about Chiang Mai into some perspective. I must admit that I tend to follow discussions about Chiang Mai more closely than those about Bangkok (I live in CM, after all) but I have seen considerably fewer threads/entries about the bad air in BKK than in CM. Before anybody points it out, yes I know that BKK is a much bigger city However, it is also situated right by the sea, whereas CM is very much inland and surrounded by mountains, which should make things a bit more difficult here.

Perceived air pollution, judged by difficulty in seeing Doi Suthep or otherwise, is one thing, real measured levels of pollution is another. There seems to be agreement that the level of particulate matter <10 microns is the most important variable in causing various kinds of human suffering. The Thai Air Quality Standards set a maximum target for this of 120 micrograms/m3, measured as a 24 hour average.

How often does the air in Chiang Mai exceed this level? Since 25 March 1997 there have been 157 days with a level above the target, i.e. 4.4% of the time (measured at Uparaj College). The equivalent number in Bangkok (Lad Phrao) is 151 days, i.e. 4.2% of the time. In Sara Buri the corresponding numbers are 499 days and 14.0% and in Samut Prakarn 695 days and 19.5%! If you decide to leave Chiang Mai due to the on average 16 days per year with air pollution above the maximum target, be careful about where you move to

To sum up the points I've tried to make:

- Yes, the air quality in Chiang Mai could be a lot better.

- No, I don't think the air quality (during normal years) merits the scores of threads devoted to the subject, in this forum alone.

- Yes, I think evereybody has a right to her/his opinion and an obligation to make her/his own decision whether all the other qualities of Chiang Mai make it worthwhile living here.

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PS All the above statistical data come from the web site of the Pollution Control Department.

How about Indonesia and Brunei?

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Kaspersky! Though it uses some resources, it's nowhere near the hog that Norton is and its real-life detection rate is impeccable, I have yet to find a better AV product out there.

I second the motion! Among other advantages Kaspersky runs in the background (i.e. low priority) and doesn't hog 100% of the system's resources like Norton/Symantec

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I'm sorry, Crow Boy, but Grolsch is a Dutch beer, not Austrian. Be careful about Nienke next time you meet her

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I am not going to argue with those who claim that last March was quite dreadful, it was! However, what I do claim (unfortunately the Pollution Control Department only keeps the last three weeks' data on line) is that almost always when there is a new thread complaining about the pollution, the Bangkok data is much worse. (And frequently the CM data are quite good.) I realize that it is really my civic duty to make a screenshot of the PCD graphs every third week and keep them archived for future reference, but I do have a life to take care of.

Perhaps I should add that visibility, in terms of how clearly Doi Suthep stands out, is not a very good measure of air pollution. There is such a thing as humidity that can (and frequently does) give the same effect. A long time ago I spent almost 1½ years in England, flying out of Kidlington Airport in lovely Oxfordshire. We quite frequently had to cancel our flights due to poor visibility, but not once was this due to pollution, but rather because of high humidity condensing into tiny droplets, commonly known as mist or fog...

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PS I do not have a business that relies on income generated by tourists, in fact I am retired and would probably prefer the tourists to stay away and leave Chiang Mai to us residents. However, I don't want to drive them away to e.g. polluted Bangkok just to have the streets to myself (+ a few 100,000 Thais, expats et.al.).

PPS Please, I have the greatest respect and sympathy for those that, for medical or other reasons, suffer from the Chiang Mai air, be it polluted or not. To radically improve the air quality of an inland city situated like CM (i.e. encircled by mountains) will unfortunately probably require decades rather than months, which leads to the conclusion that any serious sufferers would probably do well in finding some other place to live.

OK, so here are two more graphs, Uparaj College in Chiang Mai and Lad Phrao in Bangkok. Not quite as large a difference as in my earlier post, but still significant...

I think it all goes to show how little objective reality matters, it's what's in the newspapers that counts

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PS God fortsättning på det nya året, Meadish

Whenever this subject pops up (rather too often ) I go to the Pollution Control Department website and compare the data for Chiang Mai and Bangkok. With the possible exception for the famous few weeks in March of last year, Chiang Mai is almost constantly way better than Bangkok. Have a look at the following two graphs covering the last three weeks:

I wouldn't want to live in Bangkok but I love Chiang Mai!

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I think that UG is hitting on a very valid point, which has also baffled me over the years. It appears that the Thai reaction to decreasing sales volumes is raising the prices, in an attempt to keep revenue/profit constant. This is in defiance of the laws of supply and demand that I learnt at university, but TIT after all

In the neighbouring moo baan they built six new houses a couple of years ago and priced them at about 12 million. Since they have only managed to sell two of them, they recently raised the asking price for the remaining ones by ½ million. I guess the idea was to cover financing and maintenance for the time they've been standing empty

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From Doi Suthep to Chang Moi (near the moat) during Songkran: 2 hours 15 minutes... What a stupid time to go that route

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I'm afraid you haven't been to the old country for quite some time, Svenivan Dutch Gouda is one of the most common promotional items you can find at a Swedish food retailer's. The usual "extrapris" (promotional price) is 39.90 SEK, which is approximately 200 THB/kg. Finding somebody who would charge 800-1000 THB/kg for Gouda (aged or not) would, I am sure, prove almost impossible. This is not to say that I would be unwilling to pay that here in Thailand, I recently paid 880 THB/kg for Dutch Edam here in Chiang Mai We are a long way from the pastures of Holland, are we not?

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No, you are right. I remember you could not get a decent cheese less than 125 SEK (625 bath).

So that has changed. So what more has changed? You got snow on Christmas in Sweden?

God Jul!

No, according to my reports (I'm at home in Chiang Mai enjoying the warmth) the weather in Sweden is the usual for this time of year, i.e. a couple of degrees plus, cloudy and unpleasant... The white Christmas concept seemed to disappear along with my youth!

God Fortsättning och Gott Nytt År!

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A&P Bakery has a block of aged Dutch Gouda that is exceptional.

The girls will cut you a piece to suit.

110B a 100gms though, but it is Christmas.

At 1100 Baht per kg this is a big rip off like many other things in Chiang Rai. There are other choices. Like many other things in Chiang Rai there is not enough competition.

Don

It may be expensive, but really good cheese will cost you that and more in the countries it's made in. Consider it comes from Europe in cold storage and then has to be wholesaled again here.

This is definitely in the better quality range.

Be interested to hear your "other choices".

Yesterday I bought almost a kilo of the Dutch Gouda that is not aged from A&P. 600 bath a kilo is absolute not a rip off! In Sweden that will cost 800-1000 bath a kilo!

Merry Christmas!

I'm afraid you haven't been to the old country for quite some time, Svenivan Dutch Gouda is one of the most common promotional items you can find at a Swedish food retailer's. The usual "extrapris" (promotional price) is 39.90 SEK, which is approximately 200 THB/kg. Finding somebody who would charge 800-1000 THB/kg for Gouda (aged or not) would, I am sure, prove almost impossible. This is not to say that I would be unwilling to pay that here in Thailand, I recently paid 880 THB/kg for Dutch Edam here in Chiang Mai We are a long way from the pastures of Holland, are we not?

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