Runamile

A three-stage final push. Sounds like premature ejaculation and two attempts at recovery to me.

The issue isn't necessarily fluency.

Vocabulary is a good indicator.

Colleges don't teach idiomatic/colloquial English, or if they do, it's about 200 years out of date!

If a girl says "You're being a pain in the butt", she didn't learn that at College.

I'm beginning to think we know more/are better at this than the scammers. There's an obvious business conclusion! Who's in, boys!!!!!!

@tekNique

It's not cynism, it's realism, borne of experience and valuing the experience of others. It's a very strange part of the human condition that we have to go that place ourselves, before we believe. So be it.

Do remember that we are, in no way, talking about all Thai women, even a majority of them, though there might be quite a high percentage of scammers amongst the "bar girls". Equally, there can be wildly sincere people. Would you, though, take a risk on running with them, however sincere they might seem?

One of the things that holds me away from cynicism reflects what aussiejon has said. I take heart in how hopelessly bad Thais are at the art of scamming. There are always small, but easily detectable things wrong with their stories. You'll notice readily, if reasonably sober and keen to be observant . I'm not just talking of bar girls. For instance, the gem scammers always get something, some small detail, wrong in the narrative. OK, often, it's a glaringly huge thing wrong!

With the girls, it's, normally, the perfect English, despite leaving school at 13 (which they readily admit!!!). Ask if they've worked with foreigners, had a foreigner boyfriend and they don't even have the capability of describing the global corporation that they worked with locally in Bangkok, Rayong, Sri Racha, etc, so working with and meeting foreigners. I often wonder whether I should tutor them!

Frankly, the scammers, whether they know it or not, are totally reliant on people really not wanting to see or hear.

Anyway, given how bad these people are at their craft, it leaves me with the perpetual feeling that Thai people really are, pretty-well always, nice, underneath. Obviously, you don't play with such fire, unless you get pleasure from scamming scammers (I admit, I do - amazing how scammers believe they can never be scammed, how naively trusting they can be). But it does give you the sense that it would be pretty easy to meet people who are nice at every level.

Yes, ve741. But the point is why do foreigners accept their narrative? That's the point I just don't get.

Incidentally, that includes, as I've said time and again, that the deal is marriage. Westerners aren't big on marriage or, at least, co-habit lengthily before marriage. Thai women happily live with Thai boyfriends. So where does marriage come in?

@Sideways

That ratio looks pretty good, even if you're fat, old and ugly!

But, come on guys, why are foreigners so insecure. Firstly, you may not be fat old and ugly. But then try comparing yourself to a likely Thai suitor, if only on a relative basis:

Wealth.

Alcohol Consumption

Perpetration of domestic violence

Smoking

Drug consumption

Being polite

Being willing to co-parent

Being a provider (which may include wealth, as above)

Willingness to share domestic tasks

Having a Johnson worthy of the name

Faithfulness

You're likely to be the winner on all counts, failing that, most counts. If the lady is willing to look at a foreigner at all - big proviso that - the foreigner is likely to look the winner. Far from giving in to outrageous financial demands, we should be charging! How much will you pay me to take your daughter off your hands?  Incidentally, after age 30, that does happen in China.

Just got up, am a bit bleary eyed, but think I just read there's an adult male in that picture.

I'm zooming in ...................... words confirm there's an adult male in that pic!

Looks like my then joke about needing to pay for his operation could well be the truth.

If he is about to become her, no wonder she wants out through a dating site!!

I'm beginning to think no scam but tragic human story - poor woman seems to be surrounded by spineless men. Thinks I should send her some money, too ......

I'm undecided, but beginning to move toward favouring true.

It seems too good for amateur fiction!

@ve741

None so blind as, mate.

Have you noticed how guys go out of their way not to get information that their Johnson, maybe their heart too, would find unhelpful, but their brain should crave.

They make wonderful assumptions that give Johnson and heart a smooth path. I, on the other hand, have a few early questions that make opposite assumptions. "Tell me about your boyfriend", "how many children have you got?"

I'm not saying I always get the truth, but I think I, mostly, get something much closer to the truth right from the start of whatever that "relationship" is going to be. Indeed, what I hear can form part of the context of the relationship.

BTW, that was brilliant on Skype. I never knew that. In fact, it's ruined my evening, which will now be spent digging out a Skype enabled computer. I feel compelled to try that on a friend, who was always very willing to be more than a friend! Though no bar girl, I just have a feeling that list will be very long. For a lady of very limited education, her English was always just too perfect.

I suggested a couple of conclusions to this, but the story goes on, so let's suggest another end game.

You send a couple of pics e-mail attachment. They're of you, bruised and battered. The words: "My wife found out".

If you're feeling a bit mischievous, happy to fuel the fun, add either or both:

1. Her brothers paid a visit.

2. Her brothers are thinking of visiting Thailand.

You cynic, Corsair.

She bought a new one with the 20K.

Oops, forgot, she can't get out to the shops!

I also think it's resolution time. That could most easily be achieved by being in Thailand - though the resolution might involve fifteen of the husband/boyfriend/captor's knife-wielding friends. Probably he'll get a little injured along the way, so one of the final cuts will be from her for your attack up her husband/boyfriend. "My attack??!!!!", he says, naively. Try telling that to the Police, if you're still alive...........

More-or-less as easy would be switching your computer off!!!!

But, first, please note that I'm an ex-professional photographer, so I'd like you to recommend me as the photographer for the next scam. I'm feeling left out in the money-making stakes!

@Rob180

I'm deeply upset. How could you think such a thing?!

Actually, I lied - the reason for my upset is you've, accidentally, done a pre-release on a t-shirt design I've been working on.

Thought it might sell quite well along Sukhumvit ........................ and, even better, along a few of its side sois!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why nobody has ever named a bar ATM, I'll never know!  Maybe, I should make it a bar-related crusade, albeit after a resurrection of the Pink Flamingo, preferably at its original location.

@Dannyshin

So, clearly, you're not British!

@Dannyshin

I know. It's brilliant. Better than a soap, actually.

I long since lost any sense of what's fact, what's fiction. Truly gripping to see where it goes.

There have been a few like that recently. The one I mentioned was brilliant. I'm still waiting to find out if she was a housekeeper, a prostitute or a girlfriend.

Being Thailand of course, the chances are the OP has no idea. Equally, probably she has no idea, either!

Anyway, let's stay with this one. Wife? Mother? Mother of two or less children? Married to a Thai? Married to a Thai with an African name (a supreme plot convolution, that). Only thing I can see hasn't had a look in yet is katoeys. Maybe her maybe husband (or boyfriend or captor) has had a lifetime of purgatory as a male (that would help explain why he was so ready to see her go off for two weeks with another man!!!), the money being needed for conversion surgery.  Then, there's the mother - can we think of something more interesting than a new roof, new house or village hall?

@ Rob 180

Priceless!

I'd like to add one, referring to a post from a few weeks back. Allowing your "maybe" girlfriend (never did quite fathom that one) to use the allowance you give her to pay the instalments on her parents' truck is, effectively, the same as you paying the instalments on the truck.

Alternatively, if she's using her wages, from you, or any other source, it's nobody's business how she spends them.

Just shows the need for clarity .................. which you hardly ever get in Thailand. Even from the foreigners!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, for a minute, the figures quoted in this thread have been wonderfully wild (not your's Rob). Quite what kind of place, for instance, does the woman want to live in?! I pray God she never wants a car or truck. As for a house, presumably Oz would end up depleted of foreign currency reserves!!

@Tony125

Your latest post was fascinating.

At a personal level, though, I don't know whether I'm coming or going - quite literally!

I've the vastest slab of visceral fat you've ever seen. Equally, I've an upper torso that's one solid slab of muscle. My legs are, also, hugely muscular.

I wonder what that all means? Maybe everything cancels out and I should drop at average male age???!

@tekNique

Take the point, but shame it has to be a pm.

I'm losing touch as to what's fantasy and what reality, here.

I love the idea, though, of scamming a scammer. Bit like a truly worthy version of that little trick of leaving a gem scammer hanging on to an irate tuk-tuk driver!

@jsflynn603

Wonderful post.

Would, however, suggest answer on friend should be to get a new friend! I constantly wonder why it is that we can get support across a range of issues, but weight-loss isn't one of them. "Go-on, have a little. It won't do any harm", etc. I'm really worried about my weight (and I mean weight, not just fat!). The other day my mother listened, without interest (OK, I do bang on about it), then said she'd sent me a load of chocolate for Easter. Why? Do, for instance, sugar addicts have that same need as Class A misusers, to pull others in? Or smokers offering cigars to non-smokers - actually, doing more than just offering, as the sugar I mentioned. What are those behaviours about? If my Mum wanted to send me an Easter gift, why not a book, something that I hold in regard?

@ve741

Just, somewhere, saw you asking why anyone would want to get married in the first place?

That's the bit I don't get, too.

It's not that we Westerners never get married, but, in many countries, living together is more usual.

Why does the game plan change when we hit Thai shores?

In honesty, I can't really see that guys change in the face of beautiful Thai temptresses. They seem to come pre-programmed for marriage. Why - or why are they different from those left behind in the home country?

In this particular case why not live with the lady, even expense her, on the usual western basis of seeing how it goes. The fact of her living with you would conveniently provide grounds for divorce, too. After the normal Western time of co-habitation, even if there's to be eventual marriage , two or three years, how the cookie crumbles should be obvious - just as in the West. That's why we have what are, in effect, trial marriages. Why treat matters differently in Thailand? If the answer's that is what she wants, what all Thai women want, that's not so true. A large percentage of those "husbands" aren't. They are live-in boyfriends, just like you, me, or any other foreigner could be.

@Marstons

Yep, my line of approach is to agree with them wholeheartedly. They need someone to help them with all those problems.

Next I offer them extensive advice on how and where to meet Mr Right (not least, I probably know Bangkok significantly better than they do!). I tell them what to look out for to show he's Mr Right and offer a few current English phrases. I show them I really care. Care about their finding Mr Right.

Generally, they listen through about three of my oh so caring calls, before deciding that I'm definitely NOT Mr Right. Dead right!

@Frank James

" as only Thailand can provide". That's the whole point.

Nowhere in the world has constructed a relationship industry of such industrial proportions. Nowhere else can offer deception, in such rich variety, and to such industrial levels.

@nopmypoblem

I take your Stupid Buffalo point, for Thailand.

Does it, though, not occur to you how low in number are the instances of this type of behaviour in the rest of the world?

Offer him $31k to stay with her.

Really think about that English thing.

I dated a girl a few times. I met her through her work, so definitely, for sure, not a bar girl at the time. But, I got thinking more and more about that perfect English, from a person who openly admitted she was uneducated, leaving high school as early as possible, albeit through lack of parental funding. My, it's sounding like a bar girl story. Oh, one other thing - Skype lets you know when someone's online. She was constantly online. A pretty normal usage of Skype is overseas.

If the problem is putting on clothing, there's a better solution than Thailand.

Move to China. Women insist on dressing you - it's horrible!!!

Remember as a toddler when your arm became a mangled heap up by the side of your head as mother mis-applied a t-shirt sleeve. You got it!!

More seriously, whilst you can't spot reduce as such, you can undertake exercise regimes to tighten the underlying muscle. Also, core work on the spine will help. In other words, part of the problem is likely to be posture - but at the end of the day, beyond those issues, you can only consider a general weight loss regime and hope some goes from the stomach. That's just a case of less calories in or more out, or both.