Donnie Brasco

Notwithstanding your initial flawed generalization I am not an American.

In my country, if you wish to stiff the staff you may get a dirty look and some attitude if you return but there's no hard and fast rule.

My travels in the States are not as extensive as yours nor were they as rushed. I tipped there and in some places it simply wasn't expected.

If I'm not breaking a law and sometimes even if It meant I were, I do as I please.

Here, if I feel like it, I tip.

I bridle appreciably when I am expected to reward lazy, slovenly rude service simply because I am not from here and I am not expected to know how things work.

I have been known to overtip a particularly helpful service worker and I have on more than one occasion reached out and removed the coins from the tray when the waiter/waitress has been rude.

BTW tropo, I'm just killing some time in this Copperwire shop waiting for my OS X to load. You know, training myself on this impossibly small keyboard. I understand your points but I guess I play a less rule-bound game than you would have me (who you've seen fit to characterize as 'Markin) playing.

Gawd this is slow

10 minutes to go

My OS X installation will be finished in 18 minutes.

And you (obviously) had a whale of a time in 'Marka ;-)

@ tropo

Australian superstition regarding Amerikans is of little use.

It's not superstition at all dude. I've spent a whole year in the US and traveled 38 states. I know the deal and did my duty as a percentage tipper when traveling there.

The Australian tourism authority openly campaigns against tipping in an effort to save us from the US system.

Aaah, I get it.

So like heaps of guys who wash up here in LOS and get into a soap opera of endless b*tching and complaining and misery you've brought along with you the, um Australian version of the White Man's Burden.

Not only are you instructing us here on the board but you're going to set the Thais straight as well.

Although new to Thai visa unlike many posters to forums like this I pibe bere I have been here

The sarcastic curtsy/wai that some female and third sex wait staff may lay on you is more a team-building effort towards their fellow workers than a directed slight.

It just places blame for their disappoint where they feel it belongs. They'd me never do that to Thai customer.

You can chose to go all obtuse on this point but their expectations regarding you are understandably different. On some occasions in some venues they'll act this out.

Try not to let it ruin your evening.

If you feel that you just can't ignore a spoken insult (like "kineow") you may respond by telling them they are " kikor" or beggarly if you feel that an exchange of this nature will do any good.

You would be wise to bear in mind that these people might be preparing your food at some point in the future.

If it's a one-time encounter you will surprise them and probably as noted above ruin what's left of your evening for the sake of three bucks.

Tipping a pretty girl is more fun.

She gets a few bucks and you may or may not get a smile whose authenticity you can stew about for the rest of the evening.

Like I said. It's personal and it's easy.

I tip when I feel like it.

Would it have been a cashier who laid on the begging act ? (Hardly;-) or the waiter?

For me? (That's a Phills trick)

I just thank 'em for the small change the way a Thai would do and say:

"No. I like to keep the coins for beggars and the twenties for the taxi and my kids."

And then a good ol' 'markin Disneyland grin and " You have a real good day now, y'hear :-)

Or like I said, if there's been a real effort and some charm and I feel like I tip.

@ tropo

Australian superstition regarding Amerikans is of little use.

EDIT:

I recall having a dinner with a business friend of mine in Pattaya, more than 30 years ago in a fancy restaurant.

There was a bunch of Arabian looking guys with expensive designer clothes dressed Ladies of the Night. Thai ladies.

One of the chaps was clearly the man in charge, watching the way he behaved very dominant, not only to the girls but also his assistants.

When they were finished eating (including lots of alcohol...Allah is not watching now, far away) he commanded something in Arab to one of the guys who took a small briefcase, opened it and took quite a bit of money out and threw it on the table and said to the very polite and kind waitress: "keep the change" which amount was HUGE in comparison the the bill, so it seemed.

She left and 2 minutes later the owner of the restaurant came back and gave all the extra tip-money back because they felt highly insulted about the way they tipped but also the way they HANDLED the money, throwing the money on the table with the face of HM The King on the notes....

They felt he seriously insulted HM The King and staff the way they expressed the difference in haves and haves-not.

That made all people, watching the scene in horror about so little respect for money, applaud the way the owner handled the situation!

We applauded as well.

BRAVO

That's a cute story, but I doubt many restaurant owners would be rushing to give back a substantial tip these days. Times they are a Changing.

I agree; GREED has taken over and "we" as farang are at least for a part guilty to that greed since "we" spoilt them ourselves.

Thai didn't change the system, farang tourists did.

Greed was well entrenched in Thailand long before Thialand became a popular mass tourism destination.

In fact I find Thais in general more money hungry than most other nationalities I have encountered. They seem to be prepared to do more for money than many other peoples with even lower standards of living.

They have an obsession with showing off and trying to outdo each other .

I have a diary of my first trip back in 79 and one of my observations was the obsession with money that Thais had.

Right on the money!

Pattaya was by far the worst for this 'entitled' attitude.

Had a waitress demand a 200 baht tip there. Oh and the masseuse that wiped her finger across my top teeth and chatted constant shit about her brit ex boyfriend and gave the worst massage demanded a tip.

No demands were met.

in more than 20 years holidaying and now living since 9 years permanently in Thailand nobody has ever "demanded" or even asked for a tip from me.

Tip demanding is quite common, but not in the places you frequent. Gogo bars?

i don't frequent go-go bars, hardly eat in restaurants but i use services which i consider extremely important and where i hand out "princely" tips when i get "princely" services, among others an immediate and efficient follow-up on "vital" repairs in my home when i call for that service and last not least foot massage, pedicure, haircuts and my twice weekly shave.

on the other hand i fully understand that somebody who is living on a tight budget and has difficulties to make ends meet can't be throwing around tips as if money has no value.

but if the latter is not the case and i hear "why should i tip because <insert ridiculous reason>" then i'm disgusted.

Well, I do frequent these places as well as most of the other personal service establishments on offer here in Thailand.

I tip as I see fit. It has little to do with what is being served.

Good service = good tip.

Now that we have all that out of our system, I'll give you "Donnie's Troll Response Rules"

One pass and one only. . . . then I move on.

"excuses for not tipping seem to play out according to one's country of origin" The American way is to tip for exceptional service. Not just in America. We have come a long way in just over two hundred years. If it works, don't change it.

The alacrity with which you expect to parlay a discussion on tipping into a declaration of Amarikan exceptionalism and supremacy betrays that special whiff of desperation that accompanies most of what wafts out from under that bridge these days.

oh Donnie; only 6 posts ............ TV is going to adore you and wait with baited breath

Oh goodie !

A counter ;-)

I'm trying to work out if there is some hidden joke or something in your post that should be funny...... never had the problem myself. Where are you from?

No hidden joke unless its on their part!. Im from south England. Got an estuary accent most people think i speak clearly maybe a bit quietly. Ill try talking louder when i say TWO

Did someone say something?

&lt;deleted&gt; is an estuary accent?

Essex boy.

Barrow boy, diamond geezer.

Usually found in Thailand as, time share touts, dodgy real estate agents, or boiler room operatives.

Pikeys the lot of them, easily spotted wearing their 'ammers football shirts.

The same lot pronounces "football" (a word which, when I last looked had a "t" finishing its first syllable and a double "ll" finishing the word) as "foough-bawou" and bottle as "bought-ough".

If that's not bad enough they will then attempt to involve me in a tediously interminable relativist argument as to there being no "correct" way to speak English)

Well, I have a CNN accent. You know, the one that the major North America networks seek out when they recruit for national newsreaders ? That one ? And the one that is taught in most reputable elocution workshops?

Non- regional ? Yes, that one.

Sorry lads, but language and communication are all about commonality and engagement. I find that Introducing nascent dialect, slang and exclusionary regional quirks and quarks are unhelpful in this regard.

Unless of course you're tribalizing and ritualizing with your rugby union mates "down to pub".

That's all well and good, I suppose but don't expect a round of appreciative nods from a group of non-native speakers for dragging them into this stuff.

Fair enough ?

People learn English, especially these days, so as to be as *inclusively* communicative as possible.

The so-called "American accent" or, failing that, the "mid-Atlantic accent" is the one they wish to acquire. Or, failing that, they'd like to speak clearly and plainly. They want to be understood as opposed to being lectured about " 'at's 'ow we sai igh ovr 'ear' mem, in it?"

Apologies to all the regionalist a and relativists out there.

Apologies to the estuarians, but I'll wager that English pronounced so that it can be understood by the greatest biggest audience is what Thais want.

Would you really want to endure all the years necessary to acquire English fluency, only to meet with blank stares ?

It's a personal choice, I guess.

Trial buffoon ?

Well said.

SVB's "welcome" came with a soft core lecture that some of you picked up on immediately.

It is most telling to a first-time poster and long-time resident to see that several of you picked up on this somewhat hectoring admonishment.

Cantankerous patronizing swipes and members' reactions to them surely account for at least some of what is, I assume, loosely termed as "negativity" on Thai Visa.

This is my first post in a TV forum.

I have been living here for decades and I have been reading this forum since its inception.

Hardly discouraged by most of what I see here, I'll take my place among the positive commentators on some topics and I will comment and criticize where I see fit.

We'll see how it goes.