MarcIssan

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Most herbicieds have been banned it they coantain any of these.

 

Yes I know.  Some, many, or all are non-selective like Round Up but none of the ones I am seeking contain any of these ingredients.   Also the last I heard, Glyphosate was exempt due to pressure from America.  It seems if Thailand bans Glyphosate they also ban produce with Glyphosate on them.  That excludes about $29 billion worth of agriculture imported from America plus the Glyphosate produced there.  If anyone has an update that is different than this on Glyphosate I'd appreciate the info.

2 hours ago, Denim said:

 

When I put our lawn down , apart from watering three times a day I also covered it up with thick netting  for protection during the hottest part of the day from 10 am to 4 am.  After about three weeks the turf had taken root and the netting was no longer needed.

 

as for weeds, I do ours by hand. If you want to get every single weed out at one go a very laborious business. I just do 5 minutes worth of weeding in the cool morning and another 5 in the evening. I just go for the biggest weeds visable. By doing this every day , after about a month hardly any weeds left. 

I wouldn't try any kind of weed killer since it might also kill off some of the grass.

 

 

I should have sprayed with Glyphosate first to kill everything before laying the grass.  The fill was fresh and I rototilled all the growth under several times then leveled the soil.  There were no visible growths of anything.  For sure most of the nutsedge was in my soil because the growth is pretty much limited to the sod edges and not so much in the center of the sod roll.  Pulling nutsedge is fruitless unless the nutlets at the end of the root are also pulled up.  Otherwise I will be pulling on the same grassy weed week after week.  I have pulled some as a test but never saw any nutlets and these will grow up soon for sure.

But I have found 3 herbicides that are safe with Zoysia and are effective on yellow and purple nutsedge.  The brands are Image Herbicide Consumer Concentrate, Ortho Nutsedge Killer, and SedgeHammer.  I'll use whichever one I can get the fastest as they

all are effective.

Well, the news is both good and bad.  The good news is that I finally know what the problem is and the bad news is that I have to hand dig the buggers out.  I have between 250 and 300 square meters of grass all in full sun!  But thanks for the final word on what the invasive grass is!  Many were guessing and telling me to try this and that.

I had a digging tool in the states that had a long shaft with a small fork at the end to loosen the soil around the root shaft but left all my garden tools when I moved here.  I'll locate a few like it, one for my wife and I plus 2 nephews.  I am 72 but still put in the hard work to build then maintain what is there.  If you have a photo and a source for the tool you found to work the best, send it along.

I put Malaysian grass in a shady area and it is doing well but it suddenly stops at the very edge that gets afternoon sun and that is where the Nutgrass starts.  I hand pull  the unwanted grasses there but the plot is only 3 meters by 14 meters so that is easily managed.

Regarding fertilizer, I'll look for some NPKS.  The stuff the grass company suggested is either all N or NP but no K or S.  Do you have a brand you like?  I have a local farm supply and can look around there.

So I guess that's it for now unless you find a photo of the tool you like or have any further comments. 

Thanks again.

22 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I am not sure if Zoysia will tolerate those herbicides. Your suggested fertilizers of 16-20-0 and 15-15-0 contains no K. You need K in these poor soils. Mowing twice a week for a new lawn is over doing it. The tropical Zoysia lawns are nothing like the ryegrass, fine fescue or fine bentgrass lawns in cool temperate countries. 

Can I pick your brain a little?  

I am attaching some recent photos of the grassy weeds I am battling in the hopes you can properly ID the weed species or more importantly suggest an herbicide that can eradicate them. 

We have a local shop where I got Trimec  2,4-d but they don't know anything about MSMA or trifloxysulfuron which was suggested by Micah.  He admitted not knowing weed types that well but thinks these look like yellow nutsedge and if so said I may have to pull the mature ones out and rely on an herbicide to control new growth.  It might also be goosegrass...honestly I just don't know.  Gosh I hope don't have to hand pull the thousands of weed growths out...I need a spray.  Back home I used a broadleaf spray and it took care of everything but crabgrass and thankfully I had little of that.

I read where 2,4-d kills sedges thus I applied Trimec and so far 2 days later there is no yellowing of anything.  I also sprayed the flower areas surrounding the Zoysia with Glyphosate and the grassy weeds are yellowing a bit as of today but that is a kill-all herbicide which I have used before but not suitable for lawns.

So what herbicides are compatible with Zoysia and what types of plants do they kill?  Also, is there a pre-emergent granule I can apply to control new growth...or is that not necessary when using an herbicide?

Any help you can offer is appreciated.

Just now, MarcIssan said:

Yes they came to Udon but they have a 2-month long project at a local school to redo their football pitch so I was just the icing on the cake.  The sod came folded lengthwise into 3 folds.  As you can see it was a rich green and freshly cut.  I ended up with 50 square meters too much so I planted it in the back just to keep it alive in case I need to fill in some dead spots later.

Oh also, I forgot to mention they rolled it as the last step then I dumped water on it for 30 minutes.  It rooted in about a week so I cut the watering considerably.

On 5/4/2020 at 9:17 AM, Halfaboy said:

Did they come all the way down from bangkok to lay 300 m2 grass rolls in Udon ?

 

Was the new grass rolled up to make sure that there would be contact between the new grass and the old surface ?

 

Hope it all works out well....

Yes they came to Udon but they have a 2-month long project at a local school to redo their football pitch so I was just the icing on the cake.  The sod came folded lengthwise into 3 folds.  As you can see it was a rich green and freshly cut.  I ended up with 50 square meters too much so I planted it in the back just to keep it alive in case I need to fill in some dead spots later.

Michael,

Thanks for the comment.  You may be right and I guess time will tell.  I don't know the Zoysia grass so any new information is welcome.

I am actually following the advice from the owner (Queen) from Turf Grass Specialists which is where I bought the sod and of Micah Woods from Asian Turfgrass, a golf course consultant.  Both are golf course specialists which is how I made contact and each somehow deals with a variety of grasses for golf courses and football pitches.

Queen suggested a 2x weekly mowing to force the Zoysia to grow out and not up and she also recommended the fertilizer mix.  Her project manager brought the first bag of 16-20-0 and suggested the 46-0-0 which I think is way too high in N.  None of what they suggest has any K in the mix which surprises me.

Micah suggested the herbicide mix since that his what his golf course customers use.  He also suggested that mowing could reduce to maybe 10 per year once the grass filled in and watering gets to normal.  Before the rains I was watering 2-4 times a day but now that the roots have developed and the weather is cooler here and the rains have come almost daily, I cut watering to 1x / day unless it rains.  Micah also said that watering and fertilizer should be adjusted to control growth and once the roots go deep, watering could be just 2x per week.  Growth adjusts to water supply with wet months requiring more often mowing.  He suggested 15-15-15 and alternating to 16-20-0  for 2 months on for each which is what I'll do.

Both offer advice but neither offer the same advice...exactly so I am just sorting it out at the moment.

Right now I have an invasion of what seems to be yellow nutsedge and I cannot pull them out fast enough.  I need an herbicide for that but I am now told it works best on the young ones which means the larger ones get pulled I guess.  I  tried Trimec 2,4-d the other day so I need to wait 4-5 days to see if there is any change.  Pulling them is boring but that is what nephews are for!

Thanks again.  I appreciate the comment.  I caused me to ask more questions.

Marc

Thanks for the replies.  Yes I was very happy with the quality and the work done.  It looked great but the next day the temps got to 104 and much of it turned brown and the heat lasted a full week.  I watered 4 times a day and still it got worse.  Finally the Zoysia started rooting and turning more green.

The grass company had a football pitch project in Udon and were in town for that.  For sure that was the reason the crew showed up not just because of my small patch.  They came back 10 days later to fertilize and top treat with sand and it has greened up considerably.

But now the grassy weeds are coming up and I am not going to hand pull them so herbicides will be considered.  I just spot sprayed the areas with Trimec 2,4-d hoping to kill some off but MSMA and trifloxysulfuron are also recommended but I cannot find that here in Udon.

I am mowing  twice a week now with all the rain but hopefully I can get down to once a week.  I have tried to train the nephews in the art of lawn mowing but they just cannot grasp the concept of overlapping cuts and I end up with missed areas everywhere.  Tomorrow will be their second attempt so hopefully their results improve.

The grass seller suggested fertilizer that is 16-20-0 with a weekly application for 8 weeks then switch to a 15-15-0 for 8 weeks then back and forth.  This is resulting in much more hands on work than I expected and now I appreciate the work involved to keep golf greens so nice.

I invested in several plots of land around Udon many years ago and the best prices were from word of mouth by those about ready to lose the land to the bank from unpaid loans.  Also you might search banks who own land and houses due to repossession as you might find some nuggets at a good price.

Not all Thai women are gold diggers out to rob you blind but it only takes a second for that angel to turn into Medusa so protect yourself.  You can and should do a land lease if your intention is to build a house.  The last thing you need is to get tossed out of your house by the X while she shags the next guy just after borrowing the max she can only to lose the house to the bank a year or so later.  Land leases keep you in your house until the end of the lease period (plus extensions if you so add) and gives you the right to sell your house and the interest in the lease to a 3rd party without needing her permission.  Do this via an attorney to avoid problems later on.

First, you have no rights here in Thailand!  You can live here as long as you keep up your visa and you can spend money here but concerning assets other than a condo ownership, you have no legal rights if your marriage goes south.  You are not entitled to 50/50.  Thai laws are for Thai people and we are only guests here.

The only thing you can do that helps is to write an agreement with your wife regarding how your investment will be repaid in the case of divorce.  If prepared by an attorney, signed by both, notarized, etc and made legal you at least have that on your side.  It has more strength in court than a 'verbal' agreement and can add leverage.  Furthermore it prevents your wife (or x-wife as the case may be) from mortgaging YOUR house where it ultimately may become bank property if the loan is not repaid as agreed.  You can go to SiamLegal.com and buy a land lease form for DIY completion or again use an attorney to assure you get it right.

If you plan to build a house on her land with 100% of your money, I suggest you do a land lease.  That way, in the case of divorce, you have the right to live in YOUR house until the end of the lease and renewal periods plus you can insert your right to sell your house and the interest in the land lease to a 3rd party without the need for approval by your then x-wife.

Contracts are contracts and can be the basis of litigation but more importantly it gives you the peace of mind that if the marriage becomes troubled, you have some hope of financial recovery.

I bank at Bangkok Bank and have 2 accounts.  One is a US Dollar account and one is Thai Baht.  I started this over 2 years ago when I transferred Thai Baht to my account and was floored over the crappy exchange rate and the fees.  I had no control over the exchange rate and one large transfer cost me over $900 USD and the bank said using 2 accounts would have cost me 500 bt instead.  Now  I send US dollars then convert them to  Baht within Bangkok Bank and get a better rate than posted on their electronic board at the bank.  Plus the fees are less for both the incoming and outgoing wire and I can choose when I exchange dollars to baht based on the posted rates.

In case you have not found what you need, you might look at www.Superproducts.co.th.  If you are in or near Udon, I have a local farm supply shop that offers a decent discount but he will need to order in everything from them.  3-day delivery and he ships if you are not local.  Also he understands and speaks decent English if I talk slowly.  Let me know if I can help.

My first year here (2016) I was on an 'O' visa and needed to do a visa run every 90 days. My first trip was to Hanoi and in my planning for the week away I met a guy at a bar in Udon who used to live in Thailand but left for Hanoi a few years ago due to the imposing rules and paperwork required here.  He loves it, says it is cheaper there, you get a longer visa right out and little to no trouble with authorities on visa issues.  He said it was like Thailand 20 years ago..but that was before my time.  He encouraged me to consider Viet Nam but of course my Thai wife said that is out of the question.  We enjoyed our trip and found the people very friendly and by and large many spoke fluent English. I'd move there under different circumstances in a second.  No worries!!

In Udon  Thani they have a Udon  website where you can post anonymously.  Maybe you have something there where you can call attention to the problem. 

Ok, this is somewhat along those lines.  2 parts.

1) When I moved to my leased house from the MIL house, I did notify immigration.  But I did not change the address on my drivers license.  Is this going to be a problem?

2) Has anyone used the internet filing of the 90 day report?  I followed the link from a post here back in 2015 and I did get to the immigration site but the navigation to the filing area was not clear at all and I gave up.  

Marc

I like dogs too and had ONE, not the same one but only ONE, my entire life as a companion.  They were all well mannered and I would not allow them to crap on public or the private property of others and they never barked on and on and on and on.

Now I live in Thailand and within 1 block of my rented home are 50 dogs (estimated) that sleep all day and bark all night.  The motley crew next door are not confined and crap everywhere and much of the time in front of my house.  Yeah...gotta love  those soi dogs!  Thankfully I have 9 months to go before my house build is complete and there is only ONE dog...a quiet one...next door.

Well maybe but the immigration rule doesn't ask for any proof of income other than the Embassy letter.  Furthermore the rule states 400,000 bt in the bank, income of 400,000+ bt annually or a combination of the two totaling 400,000 bt.  (It would have been 800,000 if I were not married to a Thai person) and I have satisfied the 400,000 bt with more than sufficient income, over double that and then some which was stated on the Embassy letter to which I had to swear under the risk of perjury.  I wish to keep my funds from being out in the open  and opted for the income method of qualification.  There might have been some ulterior motive too.

In March, I received my first retirement visa and showed my embassy letter reflecting enough income where I did not need money in the bank.  At the end of the process the Immigration official told my wife that next time I needed to bring my bank book to show money.  Why do you suppose he said that?

I have 85 rai in Euca trees and because I don't have all the machinery to harvest and market the trees, I sold the crop standing last year for 1.2 million Baht. I think I gave away a bunch of profit but I am in America and the trees are in Udon so I made a quick deal and forgot about it.

Judging by my own experience in clearing 34 Rai of Euca myself you should count your profits on your land as a BIG win.

As you put it you don't have the machinery to harvest, the people required and your not on site. I've seen the contractors come in and work a large piece of Euca. There's multiple people with chainsaws, a front end loader, several semi truck trailers, and lots of ground workers. All this costs and the contractor by the end of the day isn't getting rich at it either. As with most things in Isan it's low low margin stuff.

The trouble with "calculator" farming is that while costs can be factored in and controlled in the USA, in Isan there always seems to be little hidden extras and last minute " Oh didn't you know that?"

Workers get say 300 baht per day, but also add in the food, ice, water, and transportation to and from work and it'll add 50%. Times 20-30 people for a big cut like 85 Rai

Chainsaws are a nightmare I wish I didn't know about. A large proper saw that will last will need a special permit. Small ones ( I bought two) will be junked by the end of the first day and declared " NO GOOD"

Trucks don't want to come untill they can get a full load or preferably several. This takes days of cutting and stock pileing.

Sell to the local gathering point and the price is less than at the end point. Those guys don't deal with 5 or 10 tons they want hundreds of tons at a time, and they're a long way south from Udon, now rather than small trucks you're looking at hiring semi trucks. Pay for truck rental, driver, driver's food, fuel for truck etc. lots of hidden costs.

What I calculated and what it cost were very far apart, it's like getting pecked to death by ducks.

I was at home in Isan and we were offered peanuts for the 34 rai and I figured I'd do it myself. Lots of hard work on my part and a lesson learned. Never again to touch anything to do with logging for me.

I bought the land not for the Euca, I bought it because the land was good for rubber, since planted and now 3 years old and looks good.

If I bought land with Euca ( not going to happen) on it and had to clear it for something else I would come it with a D6 dozer, pile it up and burn it.

You sold the first cut standing and that in my opinion is the best way.

Now for the second crop you should be fertilizing to get a decent return, from every cut stump you now have up to five new shoots growing, more growth means more food required, and more time. Second crop won't be ready as quickly as the first. Euca is a waiting game.

Just my experience with Eucalyptus, a noxious weed that grows tall.

Ken

Ken, thanks for the informative reply. Now on to rubber. I have some other pieces of land that I wanted to put rubber in but the wife said rubber is down to 20 baht per kilo. Is there any way to verify the price from the USA? I am not sure how she found out or if her sources were spot on but if that is true, I cannot see how to make any money. Comments?

Marc

From post #3

Cassava shows some profit but since I pay for labor, fertilizer, fuel etc I think I made only about 300,000 baht net profit from 25 rai last year.

From post #14

That's all I know. Except that on one 22 rai piece we only made 180,000 baht net.

Yes without recorcds, I am guessing. I know after paying my wife's travel from the USA and paying for her 5 weeks in Thailand, only about 4,000 baht made it into the bank...maybe 6000. You might say that was the cost of eduction to learn what to do and what not to do. I didn't expect to make any money and really don't need it as I still work. I figure I'll work it out once I get there full time.

Marc

I've seen sugarcane do just fine on a field that just had euca trees removed. But you already grow sugarcane so you know the end result of that.

Not really..I am far away in the US and asided from the Euca, I pay little attention to the rest. This is actually more for my Thai family and whatever I make goes to them anyway. I think once I retire there I'll look into this more. I'm curious about the meaning of your post. What is the end result of sugan cane growing?

Marc

Hi.

In one of your posts you say that you also grow sugar cane and cassava. You also say "Neither have produced windfall profits..." That's what I am referring to.

If you got 12,000 per rai profit off of cassava, that's pretty good. Anyways, it's more than you'll get off of cane. Why wouldn't you stick with cassava, but on a larger scale? 85 rai at your stated profit is a million baht a year. If you've already produce 25 rai, you should be able to produce 85...add 85 to your 25 gives you 110 @12,000 per is 1.3 million per year.

Does cassava do that well? It's at least twice what you'll earn off of cane if you're not selling it directly to the mill. How are you selling your cassava? You harvest it and truck it yourself to a buy depot? Or to the factory? I know nothing about cassava.

Here's all I know. My brother in law joins with others in our area during harvest to increase the total tonnage. ..like a group effort of some sort. I guess they each haul their own crops and get paid separately and the distribution yard is less than 5 km from home but by having many deliver during the same period they wait less to dump each load. My BIL borrowed a truck from his uncle otherwise our tac-tac would have to make many many trips. During planting, if they join up with the same group, the distribution yard has a machine they can borrow that automates the planting once the rows are plowed and furrowed. I guess you have to have a certain number of rai to get to use the machine.

That's all I know. Except that on one 22 rai piece we only made 180,000 baht net. By the time I paid for my wife to travel there to deposit the money, then paid for her month there, we only saved about 4,000 baht. So the way I look at it, I paid my BIL which helped his family, my wife got a free month in Thailand, and all this didn't cost me anything. Kind of a break even year...better than a loss for sure.

Marc

I've seen sugarcane do just fine on a field that just had euca trees removed. But you already grow sugarcane so you know the end result of that.

Not really..I am far away in the US and asided from the Euca, I pay little attention to the rest. This is actually more for my Thai family and whatever I make goes to them anyway. I think once I retire there I'll look into this more. I'm curious about the meaning of your post. What is the end result of sugan cane growing?

Marc

Thanks to all who have posted. I did some research yesterday on Euca tree mass calculations and there are some reports I can buy that tell how to calculate it. I'm looking for the free Excel template or something like it. Anyway I did learn that partly seasoned Eucaluptus has a mass of 600-700 kg per cubic meter so that is a start.

I think there is a geometric formumla to calculate the volume of an irregular cylendar (cone) so all I need are some average circumference measurements at 1 meter intervals along the full height of a sampling of trees with various circumferences at the cut line. Or maybe I can measure the circumference at each end of a 1 meter cut and take an average then do a volume calculaton on the cylendar.

If I keep the land and continue the Euca farming, I can then do random sample measurements at the base calculatting (estimating) the mass by volume then apply that to the stand to estimate market value. Therefore I can wait longer if necessary to maximize market value then cut when the numbers work.

As far as the last time, my wife was there and closed the deal on the sale so I know all of the money was banked. We had 2-3 offers and took the highest one of course. They put a big chunk down on the spot and paid the rest before they cut. It all went well with no glitches.

I am a do-it-yourself kind of guy and got into this business thinking I could cover the process from growing to marketing. I have 137 rai total but we planted sugar cane and cassava to increase cash flow between Euca cuts but the cost of production killed and appreciable profits. It was later all the Euca road blocks became known and I don't like road blocks. First is was the lack of labor so I designed an automated process for felling, dragging, cutting, and loading that reduces the workforce in half using portable sawmills and conveyers (that I can have manufactured locally or weld up myself) and should speed the process considerably. My family kept telling me the broker has the tools and trucks and workers that we don't. I'll invest in all this if the numbers work.

Now its the broker issue...we need 'quota' and we are not big enough to have it. So I asked how can I haul my own loads and get paid by the distribution yard directly and by pass the broker. They do not have an answer. With some investment and ingenuity I can cut and load my own goods. So there is where I am stumped..by passing the broker. If I cannot over come this then the investment it will take in machinery won't mnake sense.

Thanks again for your posts.

I know one guy that got his BIL a teak buyers permit and started a teak furniture and retail business. If you have all the equipment it sounds like scaling up would be a possibly.

Both of your volume formula will work.

Good luck getting around the broker, please post back if you have any joy.

Thanks. Both parcels are up for sale and I'll deal with this more if they don't sell. Thanks again.

Probably some herbal placebo stuff of which the only thing that is going to contribute to any weight loss is a strong dose of appetite reducing caffeine.

Anything harder than that would be a pharmaceutical stimulant can only be prescribed by a doctor, and will not be sold OTC by even the dodgiest of dodgy pharmacists for fear of harsh new(ish) penalties for those involved in yaba (methamphetamine) production of which they can be used as a precursor.

Actually there are class 2 controlled substances here in America. I took a picture of one of the pills that my wife's friend had and looked it up on one of the pill identification sites. I got a close but not an exact match but there are plenty of warning sites advising buyers to stay away. My wife was all for it until I stepped in.

Also when she first came here to live with me, I looked at her stash of drugs she got at the local clinic (7-11) and looked each one up on the drug directory and found some serious drugs in the pile which got flushed in the toilet. Some were pharmaceuticals that cannot be taken if you drink alcohol without serious consequences (cardiac arrest) and she said it was for menstral pain! I wonder how many Thai's have died due to the uneducated prescription of such drugs from 7-11 type 'clinics'.