dre1247

Plenty of Farangs are getting ripped off by Thai builders in the Surin area. There is only one to go to ,to make sure of a good job, Alan the Builder. He charges a little bit more than the average Thai, but the job gets done exactly as the customer wants. Now, it could be that other builders in the Surin area know Alan's rates and have raised their prices accordingly to do shabby work.Two guys in the last three months have turned down Alan after seeing his plans & prices. BOTH have come back and said " I wish we had stuck with you, now it is going to cost us a lot more"

So there you go. A lot of Farangs like the idea of building a house in Thailand for next to nothing, but please remember. If you use a thai builder you must watch over them 24/7.

"Plenty of Farangs are getting ripped off by Thai builders in the Surin area" Sorry, it appears to me he was ripped of by a farang builder?

Excuses, I retract this, after reading back I realise we discuss a local company. Well let me warn you of builders of all nationallyties, I thought a Thai builder was a no brainer.

From the OP's post it is difficult to see if builder/architect is completely at fault here.

What kind of contractual agreement did you have?

Did you clearly specify a type of window or agree tiling pattern?

It is essential to agree what is to be built, what is included in price and completion date before signing contract and starting work. Unless this was done both you and your builder have a different idea of what is expected.

Undertand what you are saying, we have a contract, he is on the tarket date, not late, He had us pick out the items we wanted, and gave us a price for the house, now he is running short on money (due to his house being built) so he is short changing me. I showed him what I wanted for the kitchen, nothing real fancy,he made the comment that is a Farang kitchen, now says it was not in the budget. 1.6 for appox 100 sq meter 1 story house.

Home Mart is where the tile was picked out, they did the pattern, and that was what was given to the workers, I saw it, even had to give them a better copy but then he came when they were over half done says he changed the patteren??

Windows, he showed us what he was going to use, but that is not what they are putting in.

Yes I am at fault for not getting every single item listed but a mans word should be worth something.

I am just trying to warn others to beware of him.

"but a mans word should be worth something" for honourable people yes, for charlatans no. I am operating in the E Seaboard and there are plain crooks in abundance here, especially in the real estate business. I am in the prelim stages of setting up a web site highlighting those bad boys as many as possible. This is for the un expecting and (too) trustworthy new comers to take heed. I know of people literally lifted of hundreds of millions of baht, and no I am not joking.

But, unfortunately most new comers only trust their own country men (and women) not realising how criminal they are.

From the OP's post it is difficult to see if builder/architect is completely at fault here.

What kind of contractual agreement did you have?

Did you clearly specify a type of window or agree tiling pattern?

It is essential to agree what is to be built, what is included in price and completion date before signing contract and starting work. Unless this was done both you and your builder have a different idea of what is expected.

How unfortunately it may be it appears you are paying to learn. First you trusted your fellow farang, don't, they come in all shapes and forms as Thais do. Your contract must specify everything as detailed as possible and if you like it or not, use a law office. I can go on and on, I see this happening on a daily base for I am installing alarms, usually during the building stage. By the way, aluminium window frames come in 5 qualities, but outside all look the same.

I think the most useful (and insightful) comment on this thread so far was from the Thai lady who noted "When you are dealing with Thais, you are dealing with children". This seems very astute to me with one possible caveat. Thai women are often by far more sensible and pragmatic (mature even) that Thai men, which possibly helps to explain why western men are so popular with Thai women. After all, in my experience, it's the women who still have to feed the kids when the useless Thai husband has quit his job again or spent the money on drink and fags and playing the alpha/beta game with his mates.

The word feckless spring to mind.

Not all but many.

You're right, I now various diamond cutting factories who ONLY hire woman by the hundreds. As explained they work harder and don't have typical Thai male habits such as smoking, loitering, picking fights and even stealing etc.

I'm waiting for a thread from a Thai guy entitled 'How is this for Farang management' in which he tells how he quit his job after the management of the restaurant in which he worked decided to reprimand him by getting his wife to do the dirty work and pass on the warning instead of handling the situation themselves. He then poses the question 'Is this how farangs run businesses in their own country? And if not, why do they do it here?'

One, your reading abilities are not too good, he was not reprimanded, just advised.

Two. Trying to save his face, was our objective in asking his wife to 'advise' him, as she did not do it in front of his friend, but waited until they were alone.

In fact my wife told her not to say anything in front of his friend.

I also think the thread which you are looking for indeed would be entitled " How's this for Farang Management"

with a subtitle of " How was I allowed to sit drinking for four hours when I should have been working and still got a job?",

because I do not know where you come from writing <deleted> like you have, but almost anywhere else in the World, he would have had his marching orders as soon as he opened the bottle.

Or maybe you are Thai yourself and support this ridiculous behaiviour, in that case as I have rebuked you, and am actually not management ,you might go away sulking and never post on here again.

Sorry FC but "How was I allowed to sit drinking for four hours when I should have been working" is a question you should answer. Step in, don't wait till he's drunk, be the boss they want and need.

From what you've described about your employees' wages and fringe benefits, it seems that you treat your staff rather well. So, why the ultimate in the biting-the-nose category? I can think of three reasons. First, could there be a real loss of face of the waiter because you told his wife, and did not confront him directly? (And the corollary, did she really light in to him about it?) The second, which may have greater weight, is that if someone is drinking for four hours during working hours, he might be an alcoholic. That might make him prone to rash and seemingly unwarranted decisions. Thirdly, there might be something going on in his life that is so overwhelming that your word to his wife was the final straw, and he snapped; there's no way of knowing that, of course, unless he told you, and that doesn't seem to have happened. I can understand his wife leaving your employ, to support her husband; but her friend as well? Nope, doesn't make sense. There's more here than meets the eye.

You're fortunate to have a waiting list to choose from. That speaks well for how you run your business.

Don't lose any sleep over it, it's not in your control.

What got me the most was, they waited until I was in hosp[tal here in Ubon to make their move. I am happy to say though, all the vacancies have been filled, for half the wages. Andall family members.

"And all family members" Oops, be careful for this can work two ways. If one goes the may all go at the same time leaving you high and dry...

From what you've described about your employees' wages and fringe benefits, it seems that you treat your staff rather well. So, why the ultimate in the biting-the-nose category? I can think of three reasons. First, could there be a real loss of face of the waiter because you told his wife, and did not confront him directly? (And the corollary, did she really light in to him about it?) The second, which may have greater weight, is that if someone is drinking for four hours during working hours, he might be an alcoholic. That might make him prone to rash and seemingly unwarranted decisions. Thirdly, there might be something going on in his life that is so overwhelming that your word to his wife was the final straw, and he snapped; there's no way of knowing that, of course, unless he told you, and that doesn't seem to have happened. I can understand his wife leaving your employ, to support her husband; but her friend as well? Nope, doesn't make sense. There's more here than meets the eye.

You're fortunate to have a waiting list to choose from. That speaks well for how you run your business.

Don't lose any sleep over it, it's not in your control.

Agreed. For most Thais (and many farangs), the immediate emotional response will over-ride the logic of the situation, and by the time they get to thinking about it (if at all), they see they've painted themselves into a corner and have no easy exit. Thais rarely appear to learn from this experience though, and the next time will produce the same result. Then they wonder why their luck is so bad so its off-to-the-temple-for-some-tamboon-to-get-rid-of-the-bad-luck time

Or even go to the ampur to change their name, unlucky name hahaha. That cost nothing and takes 10 minutes and no questions asked. You be surprised how many do this

If you don't like it don't go back. Even you admitted you like the baked beans. Did you happen to consider that the cost to make those beans taste so good was higher than other beans?

I like his ribs and chicken quite a bit, they cost more than if I made them myself or were to buy them from a street vendor; I know that before I eat there.

There are so many threads on this exact same subject, just different names of the restaurants. They are all the same, the food was good, but this is Thailand and it was too expensive.

To even mention corn is just ridiculous, I know you realize you can buy it from a street vendor of 10 Baht. But, they don't have to build a restaurant, pay rent, pay utilities, pay a staff, etc.

Bob's isn't in my top 10 restaurant list, but he has been in business for over 5 years, so he must be doing something right. If you don't like the food, or it was poor quality; then you have something to complain about, but to be constantly complaining about the price, it gets so old.

"over 5 years, so he must be doing something right." not necessarily, he sells well to his fellow countrymen who are not really known for their culinary expertise. I bet you Bob is from Texas or so.

I have tried this place twice and spent around 300 baht, but am still hungry when I leave. The food is well-prepared, but tiny portions and high prices. They "give" you a piece of corn which is about 20 percent the size of a whole one - gee thanks.

Very good baked beans, but a 100 baht portion is really worth about 35 baht because of the size. I am comparing with restaurants in Chiang Mai, but they usually seem about the same to me. What do Pattaya customers think?

I ate there once when he just opened, nothing special, potato salad came on a tea saucer and only half full, what a joke. I guess his wife was running the show and they were preparing a large outside order, hence no service for me. Second time a few years later I ordered food to come to my office, 200 mtr up the road, thought he must have improved by now. Not so a burned piece of greasy meat and the rest was just a mess. Took pictures of it for the category "what you see is not what you get". NEVER will order from them ever again even when they pay me to eat there.

The events clearly show that democracy is not the real aim and never will be of the reds.

Unless democracy means 'reds wins at any cost'.

A democratic process begins long before any election and never stops. An election in itself is but a very small detail in it.

Unless some posters realize that we will have the same boring rehash of one-liners here in this thread and for future years to come...*yawn*.

TAWP I've read your posts and never once have you taken your f-----g blinkers off you are a diehard yellow supporter through and through and you have the balls to talk about democracy.

The actions of the yellows of course are completely identified with democracy, are there anymore like you at home.

Sorry pops, its so true, they never had or will have democracy in their banner ever. Now don't go swearing at me now, watch your blood pressure and be careful not to listen too much to your wife, make up your own mind, Thais are very mesmerized by the (failed) 30 Baht scheme and therefor is Taxhim their hero.

For your info I do not support either side but as for the rhetoric of some people here that either the reds or the yellows have never done anything wrong defies belief, all parties in this country have and do buy votes so what does that say about the people who sell them one thing, that THEY do not care enough to forgo a little easy money.

My problem with the reds and yellows is that they have both tried to impose their will on the incumbent government and it really doesn't matter how many supporters they have it's still only a minute fraction of the people eligible to vote, surely a case of the tail trying to wag the dog.

Discuss the issues here, yes, but please don't bang on about y/r they are not the government. And by the way my blood pressure is fine thanks. .

Thank you for clarifying your position and I am glad to hear that your blood pressure is OK, because it is a silent killer...

Shinawatra family, the true bastion of democracy.

These are the same people (Red Shirt) who are pretending to push for Democracy, and since they don't get their way, ten let's have a coup. Amazing

Looks like the best option after 70 years of coups aimed against anybody the ruling hi-sos take a dislike to. By that I mean poor people that are "too stupid" to vote for the right party (democrats).

So glad that you newbies have such a handle on Thai politics. What would we do without your wise words!

And grandpops, what are your qualifications to "understand" Thai politics better than newbies? By the way, don't mix stupid and uneducated for that's real stupid, or is it now uneducated?? hahaha. I know people who are over 40 years in Thailand and yet can't speak a word of Thai and have no idea whats going on. And then I know others who arrived a few years ago and are on the ball. That's why grandpops (sound old you know) what makes you better than them?? A few lines will do..

The events clearly show that democracy is not the real aim and never will be of the reds.

Unless democracy means 'reds wins at any cost'.

A democratic process begins long before any election and never stops. An election in itself is but a very small detail in it.

Unless some posters realize that we will have the same boring rehash of one-liners here in this thread and for future years to come...*yawn*.

TAWP I've read your posts and never once have you taken your f-----g blinkers off you are a diehard yellow supporter through and through and you have the balls to talk about democracy.

The actions of the yellows of course are completely identified with democracy, are there anymore like you at home.

Sorry pops, its so true, they never had or will have democracy in their banner ever. Now don't go swearing at me now, watch your blood pressure and be careful not to listen too much to your wife, make up your own mind, Thais are very mesmerized by the (failed) 30 Baht scheme and therefor is Thaksin their hero.

The events clearly show that democracy is not the real aim and never will be of the reds.

Unless democracy means 'reds wins at any cost'.

A democratic process begins long before any election and never stops. An election in itself is but a very small detail in it.

Unless some posters realize that we will have the same boring rehash of one-liners here in this thread and for future years to come...*yawn*.

Sorry me old dipstick but the reds leaders did win the last four elections yet were denied the chance to govern.

Ignorance at its finest and it's attitudes like yours that will lead to more trouble as the elite hang on to power and subvert election after election to remain at the trough.

They BOUGHT the last 4 election grandpops, and they were disquallified for good reason. You did not get emotionally and interlectually stuck at the age of 16 did you? Just an honest question after reading your rubbish.....

I certainly cannot agree with what these protesters did. However this government came to power via the military, after the military installed courts evicted the elected government, what credibility do they have?

Yet rather than try and mend fences they have taken the suppression approach, which as at least half the country is red is never going to work, despite the urging of certain armchair fascists here. The reds are too big to go away, a deal needs to be cut and before things get really ugly for all of us living here. This isn't about sides, I really don't support either side, but can't but help stir the anti-reds as they are more prevalent and bring nothing whatsoever to the table intellectually.

"nothing whatsoever to the table intellectually." hahaha read carefully what you wrote. Keep on repeating the red mantra and then saying "really don't support either side" come on Chunkton, do you heard of Pinocchio? I guess your nose is at least one meter long hahahaha

Here you go (Never heard or saw it), if you put your head in the sand like an ostrich you will never hear or see a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsEHKg-

Thanks for the link which showed "The URL contained a malformed video ID", after I clicked on it.

I just watched it????

I don't care if the guy is a noodle seller or a yaba dealer, you just don't throw projectiles at leaders of any country. Examples need to be made. I am sorry, these people ARE ignorant if they are so stupid they think that is OK. Of course, I would only be in favor of jailing those tried in court and proven by the evidence, same as happened to Thaksin, the yellow bellied COWARD.

I hail from a country much more free than "the land of the free" but if anyone would throw anything to a motorcade like here the police had all 50 (pffft) in the station and booked. Any junior had to be picked up by a guardian and the guardian would have an ear full on how to bring up a youngster. This so called freedom to protest is getting out of hand but it is perceived that freedom means to be free to do what one wants, it is not getting the correct attention. It will get worse, slowly worse by time until the police understands its role and knows how to stop these excesses the correct way. Was there no security personnel outside the venue? Did they not spotted anything, unbelievable. Fire the cops too, not up to spec....

Some naive posts...

Any, ANY senior army official talking support of an army coup should be immediately stripped of his rank, tried, prosecuted and locked up.

Sadly the old prat is a FORMER Supreme Commander.

Maybe retract his pension.... And future access to his former title too,

that's a nice fat face slap for sure.

This is either;

a ) basically telling the Thaksin factions in the army the time maybe near.

b ) hoping to make the opposition nervous and more likely to make a mistake.

Either way a despicable act most anywhere, even Thailand.

Please rewire your translator, we have agreed 3 times in one week.

The sky has fallen, and hit me, and my head hurts.

Sorry guys, with all due respect for your mostly misguided opinions. Thailand is not at all ready for democracy, the style our western influenced writers aspire. First, more education for the voters so they understand the responsibility of what voting implicates, more specifically what SELLING a vote implicates. I believe in a dictator ship, let well. a benevolent dictatorship. Not a dictator disguising as a democratilally chosen leader as was recently exposed. I know this will be hard to realise the options we have now I would say, anything is better. Maybe some time in the future, after proper education Thailand could embark on this path, don't forget how unrealistic it is to compare Asia wit the west, different mind, rules, feelings you name it what. No, a benevolent dictatorship would be preferable over what is waiting for us when we insist on new elections. Think before you answer, read carefully.

Further more this is something to think about as well.

Democracy as we all realise by now, is so wonderful. Therefore these straightforward questions must be asked.

"Why do governments only rarely or never use referendums (referendums are 'democratically' prohibited in Germany) on important matters and allow the majority to make the decisions that affect their lives?"

"Why is democracy not used in the military system anywhere in the world? We know that the military uses the utmost dictatorial form of control in order to maximise its efficiency. Hence, if democracy does not work in the most efficient form of existence, in the military, why should it work in our daily lives?"

"Why is democracy never used in the corporate business system, which is the financial engine of the world and especially the democratic system?"

"Why do businesses of all styles and sizes have bosses running them, and not their employees having a say in the management by using a democratic vote?"

Test: Ask any voter, in any democratic country, about his or her own democratic system the simple question. "How many seats does your Parliament hold?" and wait for the answer.

Answer: The vast majority of the population has no idea at all.

Democracy is a clever scam that persuades the many, that by having a right to vote for who is elected to represent them, that they hold the keys of power. In reality its real purpose is to give the power to the few for the sole benefit of the few. Thus the few have the protection of the many that voted for their elected representative.

Take your time, don't rush....

Unreal, this guy has a very clear view as to who Taxhim really is. Well done sir...

Are you saying you would have preferred to be taken back to the station and processed formally for breaking the law ?

yes i had to go back to the police-station and i was processed formally for breaking the law ! with all the papers.

(yes i broke the law, it was my mistake that i don't know i had to have a drivers license for these small 125cc motobikes)

i'm a real bad farang, bring brought lots of money into this country ... anyway, at least i was happy, they not jailed me, as i speak out very loud, something "really bad" when i was leaving the police fine counter

Please stop posting about this, you start sounding really stupid and immature.

happend today in broad daylight, 15 Policemen stop every motorbike (also the small ones) on beach road in Pattaya and check for your security ... since most people get used to helmets they need a new source of income, so the ask you for Drivers License (international or thai) and Passport, both in original - for sure 95% are not caring these documents while enjoy a day on the beach

the result is lots, lots of angry tourists - every one (incl. me) got a THB 400.- fine (or more)

this is official ripoff in broad daylight - i guess they have to prop-up the city budget, since they lost already 25% of tourists ...

i'm a was a frequent visitor to thailand, like many others, i'm really pi**ed off

i know TIT ... but Lalaland has to wake up

What arrogance, it the LAW to carry this papers on you at all times, period, no arguing. Paying Baht 400 means you were stopped in front of the police station and paid the official fine, no corruption involved. They are well within their rights to ask you to go home to bring the papers for scrutiny, obviously the didn't or else you would complain about that to. No young man its time the lalaboys wake up and follow the law.....

It's too bad the Thai's don't use the Gregorian Calendar.

Not necessarily, some Thais use all calenders they know about, you never know when you are lucky... The more calenders the more chances...

Honest journalist would have asked a lot more probing and challenging questions.

You have rubbished almost every foreign journalist commenting on Thailand, even sometimes to the laughable extent of suggesting they (Times, WSJ, Straits Times, Economist) are directly or indirectly on Thaksin's payroll.I'm just wondering whether any established journalist exists that meets your exacting criteria.

I have specified Foreign because most Thai journalists are not known for probing or challenging (or let's face it even bothering to fact check).

And for chrissake don't come up with Drummond or Crispin.

Thaksin would never agree to an interview with an honest journalist.

Whatever other guys wrote in his praise in WSJ or Economist is irrelevant.

He walked out of Tim Sebastian after a critical remark, tried finding this info but can't, anybody?

Ponder on this,

Democracy as we all realise by now, is so wonderful. Therefore these straightforward questions must be asked.

"Why do governments only rarely or never use referendums (referendums are 'democratically' prohibited in Germany) on important matters and allow the majority to make the decisions that affect their lives?"

"Why is democracy not used in the military system anywhere in the world? We know that the military uses the utmost dictatorial form of control in order to maximise its efficiency. Hence, if democracy does not work in the most efficient form of existence, in the military, why should it work in our daily lives?"

"Why is democracy never used in the corporate business system, which is the financial engine of the world and especially the democratic system?"

"Why do businesses of all styles and sizes have bosses running them, and not their employees having a say in the management by using a democratic vote?"

Test: Ask any voter, in any democratic country, about his or her own democratic system the simple question. "How many seats does your Parliament hold?" and wait for the answer. Answer: The vast majority of the population has no idea at all.

Democracy is a clever scam that persuades the many, that by having a right to vote for who is elected to represent them, that they hold the keys of power. In reality its real purpose is to give the power to the few for the sole benefit of the few. Thus the few have the protection of the many that voted for their elected representative.

I trust you get my drift... We are so taken by the nose for hundreds of years that we now belief and want to die for it.......

Oh yes! The champion of the poor!

Private jet

Premier league football club

Diamond mine

Private Mediterranean island

Billions in cash and assets (and I don't mean Mickey Mouse currency) hoarded away; some frozen

Thousands of rai of prime land

What have I overlooked?

You overlooked the fact that he is the "mother of all the elite", the so popular description used in many mails to explain the reason the reds are up in arms. The poor suckers did not yet realise this fact. They are so taken by the nose it's unreal......

Ohh, that's why Police Chief Pol Gen Patcharawat Wongsuwan is not favored anymore to make a decision on the next police chief. That Shovelit gets his time in court is long overdue, remember Romklao?? Thai forces at Ban Romklao, Phitsanulok in the late 80s. when Gen Chavalit was then army chief and cavalry troops sustained high casualties in the clash with Laos arising from strategic and tactical blunders blamed on the general. A bit of a Goofy if you know what I mean..

Well, never a dull moment in TH politics.