kanook

This is a topic worthy of discussion. I just returned from a 2 1/2 month hiatus in Europe and spent 3 nights in Bangkok with two of those nights at clubs until 4am and they were not closed when I left either. Was surprised to find one of my favourite restaurants on Niman closing at 10pm earlier this evening; will make the rounds Wednesday night in search of any late night options.

wine is a joke here, probably even worse than the cheese situation. But those are two good examples of things you can a) simply do without, and save $$$$ or pay 300% more than you would in the US. If everyone refused to pay; they might consider at least lowering the excise taxes.

I buy mozzarella at Yok and it's 300฿ per kilo, not much more than I used to pay wholesale in Canada.

Changrung Farm sells fresh milk from their natural free range farm at their shop/restaurant in the Star Avenue mall near the arcade.

International school fees in BKK are double or triple the price from CM (apart from Prem) so that is a plus for CM. I had to send my daughter back to Belgium as I couldn't (and did not want) to pay these ridiculous International school prices. It is a total rip off IMO.

Also, I notice that many comments speak about 'eating out x times a week' - note that eating out here is cheaper than cooking dinner yourself. So in Thailand it is the other way around. In the restaurants here in my area in Bangkok a dish at a Thai eaterie costs 40 - 60 baht. When I go to the supermarket to buy fresh vegetables and fruit and everything you need to cook a healthy meal - it is costing 5 or 10 times as much.

While eating out can be very inexpensive in CM, shopping at the local markets and cooking at home is even cheaper.

Reports out of Yangon are not good.

Thanks for posting your experience KevWaters. I hope the young guys on this forum are reading this, because it's happened to a few friends of mine. A friend was refused in Ho Chi MInh (Ed Visa). Two more were refused tourist visas in KL on separate occasions. When I told them it was risky to try to get their visa at these locations, they said they were sick of going to Laos. Everyone I know that went to KL or Vietnam for a visa and was refused knew that others had problems there, but they went anyway.

Done some research and it seems going with plane is just better even tho i need to stay the night when arrive mukdahan.

Not looking forward to take a 18hour bustrip, CM-KK , KK-Mukdahan (arriving 6am KK)

Hurrying to arrive before 11am to do same day at thai consulate, being tired from the bustrip.

If i book plane ticket CM-BKK, then BKK-Nakhon Phanom, ride service to Mukdahan with nokair fly n ride, sleep in mukdahan, cross bridge at 8am, enter into Savannakhet, be in time at consulate.

I think the bridge opens 8am right, so that would leave me enough time to get to consulate before 11am I assume.

Then pickup passport next day 2pm, taxi to Mukdahan hotel, stay the night, ride to Nakhon Phanom airport ->bkk->CM

In total it would take me 4days to do the trip, so it isnt that bad i think. Correct me if im wrong.

I just bought a car, but nobody can drive me go there since i dont have driving license yet and my wife needs to take care our newborn.

EDIT; Question unrelated to thread, but do i need to cancel my ED visa extension before going to Savannakhet ? I used up all entries, my classes finish this month and currently on my last extension of stay valid until 14june.

No one has mentioned flying direct from Chiang Mai to Ubon Ratchathani with Kan Air, CNX (06:10) - UBP (08:20) with flights seven days a week. I flew Chiang Mai to Nakhon Phanom, transiting in Bangkok, at the end of April when I went to Savannakhet for a Non O, but many may want to avoid 2 flights. It is not that much farther to the friendship bridge in Mukdahan from Ubon airport (aprox 180km) than Nakhon Phanom airport (150km). I have flown the Kan Air route before and it was fine. The only issue for some may be that they use a turbo prop ATR, at least that is what I flew on.

Apparently, an ED visa is the new scarlet letter at Immigration. Don't ever mention that you will be looking for work....even if many look for teaching jobs with tourist visas. Might be better to say you are going back to your home country in the near future. They won't let you out, if they know you can't get back in.

Apparently, an ED visa is the new scarlet letter at Immigration. Don't ever mention that you will be looking for work....even if many look for teaching jobs with tourist visas. Might be better to say you are going back to your home country in the near future. They won't let you out, if they know you can't get back in.

Really? You think they check that and provide guaranteed return rights?

Bangmai is correct, Thai immigration at the border crossing in Mae Sai will not let you exit if they are not willing to stamp you back in again. The exception is if you hold a valid Burmese visa.

Welcome to the forum, SwissCheese, and if you do decide to come and live in Chiang Mai, I hope you and your family enjoy your stay here. You have probably already realized this, but moderators like ubonjoe and supermario give excellent visa advice. I just want to focus on the cost of living in Chiang Mai, because I feel some of the posts may lead you astray.I actually dislike the terms cheap and expensive when used to describe the cost of living in Thailand and specifically Chiang Mai. It is better to describe the the costs of living (comfortable standard) as having a much greater range than most places in the world. I don't doubt that other forum members spend what they say they do; I have many expat friends that overpay for most day to day items although surprisingly most expats in Chiang Mai seem to work hard at paying the local rate on accommodation. The social norm in Thailand is expensive means better quality and to many Thais if they can afford it they will usually choose the more expensive option. Unfortunately if you are an expat and married to or dating a Thai, it is easy to get sucked in to the same thought process and before you realize it you are actually spending a lot of money to live here. I will also offer a real world example. Your family needs to purchase toiletries (hand wash, shower gel, shampoo, toothbrushes etc). Most expats and Thais in CM will buy them at Watson's, Boots or the big supermarkets like Big C, Tesco Lotus, Tops or Rimping. I rarely see any foreigners in the modern Chiang Mai Direct and their pricing is even cheaper than Makro and you don't have to buy in bulk. Back to the question, can a family of 5 live on $1500 (50,000฿) in Chiang Mai? Let's apply logic; a very common salary for a university educated citizen living in CM is 15,000฿ per month. That means thousands of locals are raising families on 30,000฿ per month and most will also own a vehicle. I do agree that 50,000฿ is not ideal (I noticed that you are not against raising your budget to 65,000฿) for an expat family new to CM and you will most certainly spend more to set your family up the first few months. Feel free to send me a PM if you want the names and locations of places to shop (Thai and international brands) that price their products considerably lower than the usual Tesco, Big C, Home Pro, Rimping stores that most foreigners use.

Nok is a lot more civilized, for about the same fare. Lion couldn't be worse than AA, for less money; they were doing 390 to BKK a few days ago. BKK Airways is nice but not sure if it's worth 500 extra to get pumpkin chips and fake OJ in the lounge while kids are running around screaming. DMG gives you many transport options, like the 20 thb van to Mo Chit BTS if you simply walk out to the expressway.

If you are going to promote fares and use airport codes you should at least make sure they are correct. Thai Lion Air doesn't fly to BKK (Suvarnabhumi), but rather DMK (Don Mueang). The 390฿ fare you mentioned is from Chiang Rai to Bangkok not Chiang Mai. Thai Lion Air are also notorious for having virtually no seats available at their promotional rates, plus a super cramped cabin, that I found uncomfortable on the one hour flight from Bangkok to Chiang Mai. I am not trying to be hypercritical, but it is hard to read and understand posts if the airport codes and or acronyms are incorrect; "DMG gives you many transport options..."

Vientiane is a good choice if you want to arrive by air and keep costs down. Nok Air has a special price for the month of June to Udon Thani from both Bangkok and Chiang Mai if you book May 11 or 12. I have never needed transport from the airport into town, but I have taken the local minivan service from Central Plaza mall to Nong Khai and it was very cheap, 55฿. I recently returned from another popular place to receive a visa, Savannakhet, Laos and even though I was flying from Chiang Mai I transited through Bangkok so I essentially followed a route that many would take from BK. If you decide on this route and wish to keep costs down fly from DMK to Nakhon Phanom with either Nok or Air Asia and from there it is 100 km to the Thai city of Mukdahan that borders Savannakhet. Arrange a metered taxi to meet you at the airport in Nakhon Phanom or take the public bus (100฿) to take the 18 km ride to the bus station into the city. There you can catch a public minivan for 80฿ to take you directly to friendship bridge in Mukdahan. The authorities will not allow you to cross the bridge on foot and you will need to catch the bus (45฿) to cross the bridge and in theory you could hop back on once you clear Laos Immigration but in practice it will not wait for you if you are getting a visa on arrival. When you clear immigration there will be jumbos (tuk tuks) waiting (price negotiable) to take you wherever you wish to go into Savannakhet. I rented a scooter in both cities and spent a few extra days in each and the conclusion is that I preferred Savannakhet (less visa applicants, friendly locals, maybe cheaper on the ground) over Vientiane,(Udon is closer to the border and Vientiane is a bigger city with more entertianment options) but if you fly (Nakon Phanom or Ubon Ratchathani) you would not make it in time to apply the same day at the consulate.

Good trip report Eddy B. We had a beer together at the guesthouse the night before we picked up our visas at the consulate. I picked up my Visa the same day as Eddy and can confirm the bus crossing the bridge was beyond full. It's actually difficult to describe how many people they packed onto the bus, but to get an idea; after it was completely full standing room only, the bus driver kept screaming at the passengers to move back and jammed another 15 or 20 people into the 'can of sardines'. I probably crossed over about one hour after Eddy.

(Part of) the problem here was that he was late for flight as it was and had to leave. So nothing could be done anymore at that point in time. Now if you can not leave because your passport is missing the problem of 'having to leave in a hurry' is sorted. So plenty of time to go to the police station.

Probably not. As mentioned in the report, the police station that covers the airport is at Tha Chat Chai, right next to Sarasin Bridge at the far north of the island.

That police station is no doubt, very useful for incidents at the Tha Chat Chai checkpoint, but hardly much good for the airport.

When someone needs to report an incident that occurs at the airport, such as losing their wallet or luggage, they have to make a police report at Tha Chat Chai, (eg for insurance purposes).

The police at (more accessible) Thalang Town will refuse to provide the insurance report - the airport is outside their jurisdiction.

To reach that police station is about 500 - 600 baht (each way) in a taxi, or (if you are lucky and call me and I have the time), it is free because I drive the tourist to/from Tha Chat Chai and translate for the police report (if you don't speak Thai).

This typically takes a round trip time of at least 90 minutes, (including making the report), plus my petrol costs which I cover myself.

So..... as I mentioned previously, building a small police station to manage incidents at the airport seems to make a lot of sense.

Oh, and whilst they are about it, howabout building a petrol station by the airport, so that cars don't have to travel the 6-7km to the nearest petrol station at Meung Mai?

Sheesh! - A busy, international airport with no police station and no petrol station

Excellent post and I full agree that a police and petrol station are needed. The first time I visited Phuket, I spent 30 minutes looking for a petrol station near the airport. I didn't want to fill up too far away from the car rental office because I thought it was only fair to bring a back a full tank. I finally found a station, but I did question the logic of not having a station near the airport.

"Restaurants/bars/hotels that charge a service fee are basically forcing customers to subsidize employee wages."

True, in those cases where the service charge is, in fact, distributed fairly to the employees.

Excellent point amexpat, this happens quite often. I have even been encouraged by ownership during an interview for a General Manager position to skim money from the gratuities as extra enticement to take the job. Most people just assume that the service charge or the 'tip' they leave in the bill fold goes to the staff. When I 'tip' in Thailand I usually leave a token amount in the tray or bill fold and then personally hand money to the service staff and if the food was exemplary and the kitchen is not too busy personally tip the kitchen as well. I avoid as many of the service charge establishments as I can.

Walter Travolta, you seem to be interested in making side trips to bordering countries while on your tourist visa. A triple entry tourist visa from Savannakhet may be something to consider. This visa only has a 3 month validity, but it allows you to 'burn' entries if you plan on taking short trips to neighbouring countries and may come out cheaper than using a re-entry permit.

I believe Bali is the only place you can get a Triple Entry visa in Asia, would be a Double Entry from Savn.

Edit: Triple Entry from Bali would be valid for 6 months so you can get almost 9 months out of it, but they'll want to see each Entry mapped out & flights booked when you apply.

You can get a triple entry (3 month validity) from Savannakhet.

My gf makes 9k a month working 5 days a week at hotel. But she also gets a share of the 10% Service fee collected each month. Last month she got just under 12,000 baht Service making her monthly total about 21,000 . Her yearly bonus also needs to be added to this which depends on how good business is for the year. A good year could see two months or more bonus and bad a minimum of one month. They also look at your years of service and after so long they may add another month bonus.

It all depends on what you do for a living.... Education and experience does count ....

Also don't forget about the unreported income that some Thais get each month. Some own food stands, rental property in condos or farm land, rubber or palm oil, government official handouts, under table bribes, money from farangs, etc etc....

Thais make more than most people think ......

Another reason not to support a business that adds a 10% service charge to the bill (becoming more difficult to avoid them). Your gf's employer pays her 9K฿ per month and the hotel's customers pay her 12K฿ per month; something is very wrong with that. I am a restaurateur for many years and I have a real problem with this increasingly common practice in Thailand. Gratuities should be at the discretion of the guest, not mandated. Restaurants/bars/hotels that charge a service fee are basically forcing customers to subsidize employee wages. Your gf should be paid a fair wage by the hotel.

Walter Travolta, you seem to be interested in making side trips to bordering countries while on your tourist visa. A triple entry tourist visa from Savannakhet may be something to consider. This visa only has a 3 month validity, but it allows you to 'burn' entries if you plan on taking short trips to neighbouring countries and may come out cheaper than using a re-entry permit.

It might not work for everyone, but I have actually memorized the Thai and Lao holidays. This way I know when my wife has long weekends for a beach holiday for instance with the added bonus of being able to plan consular trips and even more importantly making sure that my visas never expire during songkran. Your situation is very unfortunate with the website error. I hope you didn't lose out too much financially.

Hospital administrator (with degree) 15k

Accountant (with degree) 15k

Bank Home Loan administrator 14k

Office manager Nimmanhamen (with degree) 15k

School Teacher (with degree and 10 years experience) 16k

IT manager with large hotel group (you all know the name) 10k

Popular cook at local food court (zero education) 35k (100-150 orders a night at 30-40bht)

Roadside somtan stall (zero education) 4k

In CM it's really hard to beat that 15k limit, senior management or self employed with a particular skill.

I also know some similar employee's in BK (with degrees) and they are on around 25k.

They seem rather low. Wifes cousin is a door man at the Shangri-La hotel and is on over 30K per month, and gets to eat all meals there. This is for greeting people as they walk into the hotel. So how can an IT manager with a large hotel group be on 10K? I don't believe it.

I believe it and it's one of the big problems this country faces; wage disparity. I forgot to mention another salary of a Thai male friend, Petroleum engineer, (Thailand based) 300K฿. Excluding the self employed and business owners the few people I mentioned have a range from 9K - 300K฿. Maybe someone should start a thread about wage disparity and the financial and social problems it creates.

Interesting topic and I think that it varies. I do know one thing, many Thais that I know are in debt and live beyond their means. I find this topic fascinating and I am always asking questions and curious about salaries plus it is a topic that comes up constantly between me and my gf. The maid in her office earned minimum wage 300฿ per day which worked out to less than 6K฿ per month with the standard 5 day work week and holidays, but they paid her 6K฿. My gf lobbied hard with head office to increase her salary and she now earns 9K฿. The drivers at her office (there are 2) are paid approx 16K฿. Btw my gf is the office manager and when she posted the position for a new driver 1 1/2 months ago she was bombarded with phone calls day and night. I asked her if that was considered a good salary for a driver, she wasn't really sure, but one of her colleagues who I spoke to told me that 15K฿ is a salary that one would expect coming out of college with a bachelors degree so that is why there was a lot of interest in the posting. He also mentioned that a driver could earn more than that if he wanted to buy his own vehicle and book tours or partake in any other driving within the tourist industry, but there is risk with that (obviously) As for the other staff in the office they are all above this level but everyone has a bachelors degree and most have masters plus they are all required to be proficient in English because it is an international organization. She also briefly spent some time job hunting last month in Chiang Mai, but almost all managerial positions she had an interest in and qualified for, were paying between 20-25K฿ and that is far less than she is earning now. Here are some other people I know. Nurse just finished school 12K฿. Another nurse experienced and working for the last 6 or 7 yrs with overtime close to 40K฿ (Bangkok based). Personal assistant to an executive of a large foreign bank 45K฿ (Bangkok based). Restaurant owner and chef together with his wife 250K-300K฿ per month. High school teacher 15K฿. Security guard 9K฿ per month but he complained that the security firm withholds a high percentage for accommodation.

The route doesn't work for me, but it will be a welcome addition for the budget traveler. Does anyone know if the airport taxi drivers still need to pay a hefty upfront fee plus extra monthly fee to ply the airport route. I usually just pick up visitors at the airport unless they are the type that don't really care if the taxi or transport is metered.

Thanks again for the advice.

So here's what I'm going to do. I just did a little research and apparently it's MUCH MUCH MUCH easier and faster to make sure I'm 100% legal driving a scooter (if I decide to do so) before I get there. That way I'll be covered by World Nomads travel insurance.

* It's only going to cost me $15 to get an international driver's permit from AAA which I'm going to go in for next week

* It's only going to cost me $200 to take a motorcycle driving course, which takes place on the weekend (Saturday and Sunday) over the course of 20 hours (8AM to 6PM) in which case, after I complete it, I am able to immediately go and get my motorcycle license and will be able to wave both the written and riding portions of the test.

So - pretty cut and dry!

- William

You seem to be a smart guy and I'm sure you will enjoy your stay here. Welcome to the Chiang Mai forum and soon, to Chiang Mai.

Not sure how long you plan to stay in Chaing Mai, but since you are coming here on a one way ticket, I assume that you plan on staying long term. If you plan on staying long term in CM you will probably need your own transportation. Hasn't been mentioned yet, but if you do plan on staying here for at least 6 months, it would be a better idea to buy a scooter. I recommend this for a couple of reasons, first it will be safer because there is a high probability that your rental scooter is not properly maintained and it's not worth the risk from a safety standpoint. The second reason is that it will probably be more cost effective to buy (new or used) your own bike. If you are planning to stay long term and you can afford to spend a little more for the first few weeks or a month, it is not a bad idea to find short term accommodation in a central area and take some time getting used to how traffic works here by not riding a scooter for the first few days or even a week. It cannot be overstated; driving a scooter or motorbike in Thailand is VERY dangerous, but there are many small things you can do to mitigate the danger and it will take time to figure out which work best for you.

Don't waste time if you don't have 400k.

I was there in January and got multiple entry non O for 5000 thb.

Trip from Korat and back, hotel, E20 for my car roughly 850km, food and other expenses with 1500 thb Laos visa, only 9000 thb with 5000 thb Thai visa.

It is 2 days trip is little hard for all that but it can be done.

If you want, you can stay 2-3 days there and look around.

Hope this helps

Dino, I am planning this trip in May. Did you leave your car on the Thai side or did you drive it across the border? I would greatly appreciate any other insights or tips you may have.

Thank you, Kanook.