El Taco Loco

Managing teams is probably not an easy task anywhere, but in Thailand it can be extremely difficult when you have to achieve results. The work ethics and education standards in Thailand can actually make it a nightmare.

I managed my own IT company with small teams (up to 15) for nine years. Closed my company in 2002 and laid off all staff. Best thing I ever did. Although this was not an entirely voluntary action, I found that many headaches suddenly vanished.

Today I work as a one-man-show. No need to hold repititive meetings, explain policies, micromanage, check quality, waste time with admin. Life is so much easier...

Cheers, X-Pat

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I see a lot of that happening. And it is a shame, as some of them are really hard workers. Micromanaging is the only way to do it and it does get exhausting.

Sniper

Unfortunately, I have to agree with your complaints. I too have seen all this in companies I have worked with.

I suppose that you have to remember that Thailand is still an undeveloped country, both in education and work practices. It is easy to forget that, living in tourist areas and Bangkok, and apply your own standards and expectations to your workers.

It is certainly the case, all over SE Asia, that the Chinese are better businessmen and hold a disproportiionate amount of the wealth, due to their work ethics.

The colonists recognised that most local workers were not really into hard work, and brought other peoples in to do their labour. Maybe Thailand would have been better off with a colonial past?

The Thai way of life seems to appeal to most of you out there though!! except for businessmen, mai pen rai Kaah   

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I have met with a lot of successful Thais and they are equally lazy as the lower schooled compatriots. Particularly when it involves old money. I have also met a lot of Thais who acknowledge this issue and are just as frustrated as I am.

Would Thailand be better off if it had a colonial past? Difficult to say. Look at the contrast between Burma and Malaysia. Both British Colonies at one time.

Thailand always claims it was never conquered, but Burma kicked their rear on many ocassions, lost last, etc. But I think at the end of the day, their hard headedness won and all conquerors left. Similar situation now with Farangs leaving the comfort of home to work and teach here and scratching their heads wondering why Thailand.

Sniper

Don't overdo your management style as you might find yourself lying in a ditch somewhere whit a bullet in your back. especially when you fire personell.

I was warned for this by a very senior (vice president) exec from the largest holding in thailand, CP.

you can shift them around, but be carefull when you fire them.

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Indeed. One of the Thai managers' house was firebombed and there have been some strange incidents. That is always in the back of my mind. Particularly when they drink, they kill for no reason.

Under Thai law we must give 3 written warnings before we can fire or we have to pay 3 months wages. So they know when it is time and for the most part they understand the consequences of their future actions.

Sniper

Sorry, calling them names is not my management style and I do not allow that to happen from the "lieutenants". However, I do know other Thai managers in other companies are very strict and very condascending towards their staff.

With regards to cheating the company..we had some losses for awhile then we did more searches, 24 hour security and strict inventory controls and of course some of the mafia left, others complained but overall it was important that they know who the boss is. But once they steal, they are out.

Sniper

HI all.

For almost a year now I have been in a high management position managing about 100 Thai staff. In a hotel environment.

What I find excrutiating is their hard headedness. They (99%) do not want to change. When changes are implement (albeit policy) they will do so, but slowly revert to their old self. In most cases they want to wear you down to where you give up and back to square one.

I have lived in Thailand 4 years. Do not speak Thai but I know about 300 words and always am able to discuss and give orders without any problems (elect dic, drawings, staff translations). Never a problem to get an idea through. But implementing it, forget it. Simply easier to talk to a brick wall.

Particularly Southerners, area where I am based. Change Policy? Try to make their jobs easier? Forget it!  They want to do it the hard way. Methodical thinking, non existent. Cognitive thought process? Not there either. It is like trying to understand a Dali painting while drunk on Chang beer.

Anyone else in my shoes?

To answer future questions. I am engaged to a lovely Thai girl going on now for 3.5 years. We are expecting (totally planned) a baby in a few months. I enjoy living here, with its warts and all. 43 years old, etc. 3 dogs and crazy in-laws. (Separate house, of course).

Thanks,

Sniper

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Here my wife is managing, she is half chinese (but don't like to hear that). She manage terrible unpolite, calling them buffalo, idiots, animals and many things more which I am unable to translate. than they try to improve, which lasts arround 2 days, than fall back. Than need to hear the complains again for 2 hours.

But really slowly they improve and get better. The snails are racing ahead in the speed of improvement, but they improve.

In Europe that methode would not work at all, but here it seems to. Sometimes the staff cry like little children (men 30 years old) and later promise that they only love the company and nothing else (this happens after we find them cheating companys money or something like that).

Very strange everything, I myself get slowly but sure crazy on seeing that every day. But our performance is double as good as the other companies, on the price that my wife is sitting and controlling everything 12-14 hours a day 6 days a week and I make the real managment work in the behind. And that for 6 people staff.

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So.  Exactly how much motivation are YOU guys going to show at $10 a day salary?  The highest motivated people I've seen in Farangi-land are those that are "overpaid" by comparison to their own local standards.  Either they have their own business, or don't have the proper credentials but "know" someone, or they get a lot of extra perks, like top-line computers and good travel.

Then, they are motivated to keep someone else out of their job.

kenk3z

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Most of the staff are paid less than that, but above minimum wage and with guaranteed service charge. My experience has shown that salary plays a small part in motivating. The problem is this: You offer them more, they become more secure in their job and are lazier than before. You give them a title and forget it.

Motivation is: 2 guaranteed meals a day, service charge, staff bus, etc. Very basic and easy to give. The issue, again, is implementing policy and doing so effectively.

Sniper

Since you are upper management you must have lower management Thai personnel. As such you should meet with each one, individually not as a group and discretely so as not to bring attention to it.

Try to get their assistance in solving the problem and also see if they can give you some ideas as to why it is not working.  It has to be on a one-2-one basis because no-one in a group will say anything.  Also, you say you speak little Thai but can get your point across.  That may not really be the case and you are presuming that they fully understand what you want of them.  Other posters comment about learning Thai is a good one, without it there will always be a barrier there.  This is why you should try to get the assistance from lower management Thais.

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Indeed, I do that. I always go to their department heads and talk. We do have weekly meetings and those have actually improved. When it comes to critisism, I do so in private, to the DH and then follow up to see if anything has been done about it.

To you and others, thanks for the advice. You are right. Learning Thai is essential.

The issue of speaking Thai, though critical in some instances, are not really needed when I use other tools to communicate such as the ones mentioned in my previous post. Most of the items get done and done well. I am more concerned with their hard headedness and the ability to resign when it rains a little bit. Not a loss of face issue, but objective critisism they do not take at all.

Regards,

Sniper

Hi. Thanks.

Age is a moot point. I have people in their twenties doing driving, service staff, older folks in housekeeping, gardening. Ages are from 21 through I believe 52.

It is the issue of implementing ideas given to them.

The answers are always "cannot because" and no real reason given. Or when accepted, they do it for a few days and then back to the old habits. Tell them they must improve, they then resign. No job found, they just resign. The concept of no guests no money means nothing to them.

Thanks,

Sniper

Welcome to Thailand my friend. Actually, I am surprised by what you said in one regard. Usually Thai people completely defer to people that are above them in status and age which you are on the first but not sure about the second.

HI all.

For almost a year now I have been in a high management position managing about 100 Thai staff. In a hotel environment.

What I find excrutiating is their hard headedness. They (99%) do not want to change. When changes are implement (albeit policy) they will do so, but slowly revert to their old self. In most cases they want to wear you down to where you give up and back to square one.

I have lived in Thailand 4 years. Do not speak Thai but I know about 300 words and always am able to discuss and give orders without any problems (elect dic, drawings, staff translations). Never a problem to get an idea through. But implementing it, forget it. Simply easier to talk to a brick wall.

Particularly Southerners, area where I am based. Change Policy? Try to make their jobs easier? Forget it! They want to do it the hard way. Methodical thinking, non existent. Cognitive thought process? Not there either. It is like trying to understand a Dali painting while drunk on Chang beer.

Anyone else in my shoes?

To answer future questions. I am engaged to a lovely Thai girl going on now for 3.5 years. We are expecting (totally planned) a baby in a few months. I enjoy living here, with its warts and all. 43 years old, etc. 3 dogs and crazy in-laws. (Separate house, of course).

Thanks,

Sniper

Hi!

I am a man, so please forgive the slight intrusion.

I have been with my Thai wife for over 3 years. Not perfect, but we talk a lot. And that heals and corrects our marriage.

What worries me is that you "compromise a lot", your words. After a while, it is only you doing the compromising and it gets old real fast!

You have not answered any of the questions about where you are and what kind of Muslim he is, nor if you are in his village, in a city, etc.

But the others advising you to go home for a while and think things through, is very wise and you should do it. Recharging your batteries works wonders for all of us who live outside our own culture.

Good luck!

Sniper (Ted)

I love him and we've been together 2 years, I compromise a LOT. I wear Muslim clothing I curb my instincts to speak too much. Live and breath Thai culture........

Any ideas out there ? Not "leave him and get a life" answers please. I am trying to understand this.

S

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For a moment there I thought I was in LA when I woke up. It was not this bad last year. This is the first time I have seen it like this in Phuket.

Sniper

Sumatra 'haze' reaches Phuket

PHUKET: -- Hazy atmospheric conditions in Phuket today are the result of forest fires on the Indonesian Island of Sumatra that have left much of Malaysia and Southern Thailand coughing in smoke over the past week.

--Phuket Gazette 2005-08-16

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