tfranz

You are right ParadiseLost.

The EU/German laws are more draconian to e.g. most Thai people than the other way round.

But here we were talking about married couples of Thai - Farang nationality and how their countries support them in their natural pursuit to take care of their families.

Well, it is in Germany and I guess many other countries.

As a spouse of a German citizen you have immediately more (business) rights and options than someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)

Comparing policies in Germany/EU to those in Thailand is ridiculous.

Yes I agree. And even more so when what he say is wrong. Thai people need a WP to work in EU

When a Thai spouse gets the visa for Germany it states "employment allowed" (although not always but I only know it this way).

This is for unrestricted employment first.

Then you have to go to the local immigration office and the visa is converted into a residence title.

Still ... employment allowed.

The foreigner can go and look for a job and with that title he can work.

Another thing is having an own business.

There are prerequisites that you have to meet if you want to set up business.

But the German residence law states that for people with an existing title (as for a spouse of a German) and an allowance for employment these prerequistes are softened immensely.

I have seen that with friends of mine in a very similar situation.

But I have to admit that my statement with "working from day 1 on" was not 100% correct.

Let's say working from "day 20 or 30 or 40 on".

Well, it is in Germany and I guess many other countries.

As a spouse of a German citizen you have immediately more (business) rights and options than someone who is not married to a German citizen (and is not from the EU or other privileged countries)

Thanks JLCrab for an explanation.

I will think about that today.

Although my first thought was ...

"ok that might be a point, but there still is a big difference (or there should be a difference) in the way a government supports a company that wants to invest in Thailand "big time" because it sees business opportunities in Thailand and a foreigner married to a Thai. Both have justified interest in setting up shop in Thailand and should be supported by the Thai government."

But again, thanks for your input. Gives me something to think about.

JLCrab, I understand your point.

I am just trying to comprehend why as a spouse of a Thai citizen I am not getting more opportunities by the Thai government to establish a small business and THEN grow.

Because ... I am taking care of my Thai wife, maybe a (Thai) baby and for sure a Thai grandmother.

And no, I am not the big business guy with significant business now ... but eventually that is where I plan to be in the near future.

What is the risk for the Thai government?

They don't pay a minimum security to people who don't have enough (like they do in Germany and other European countries).

There is no financial risk for Thailand ... but there is the chance of benefit.

Isn't a government supposed to care about their citizens?

So if they don't care about the foreigners then at least make it easy for the married foreigner to start a small business and care for the Thai citizens within his family.

I know that especially in Thailand you should not ask too much about the "why?" of things.

And I learned that and I even like that sometimes and I don't do that too often anymore. This gives you a more peaceful state of mind. I am fine with that.

I think the described topic here is the only issue I have where I am still looking for the "why?" or "why not?".

Because this affects a whole family (with THAI citizens).

But how does that help foreign people in establishing a small company in Thailand then and work?

Such as my Thai spouse can do in Europe from day 1 on without any problem.

You Thai spouse can not work from day one in Europe. At least not the Europe where I came from. You need wp there also if you are not a citizen of that country

I don't know about every European country.

But this is e.g. about Germany.

Allowed to work from day 1 because married to a German citizen.

That is a huge huge (I could write a 100 more "huge" here) difference to the rights granted to the German in Thailand as a spouse of a Thai national.

And it is something that makes one wonder.

Being allowed to work (as the foreign spouse of a Thai citizen) does not mean that one can buy land for example. And that is fine.

Also the list of jobs that non-Thais are not allowed to do would be still applying to the foreigner.

So, why is it so difficult for the Thai government to let people in this situation work?

Let's take this a little bit further.

The Thai - foreign couple gets a baby. The let's say farang husband wants to set up a life in Thailand with his family.

He is very good in web design, programming, SEO, consultancy whatsoever.

He would like to start a small business to support his family i.e. his Thai wife and his Thai/farang baby (and we all know partly other members of his Thai wife's family).

But the Thai government only let's him do that if he employs 2-4 Thais.

Imagine what could evolve from small businesses like that. They might grow eventually and thus employing more Thais either directly or in other ways.

That's what businesses do many times if you let them do their business and give them the time to grow from within and not by force.

What is the alternative for this small example family?

Take the family to Europe and do the business in Europe.

And then? What is the benefit for Thailand then?

This whole concept in Thailand is not that easy to comprehend.

Interesting again.

But what about the US companies that hire somebody for let's say a small web design project?

Don't they want or need a proper invoice from an official business entity whether it is a small one-man-company or a big corporation?

I am confused ;-)

Interesting. I know what you mean.

But this is only for people who are officially working in another country, isn't it?

I mean, if you dont work in the US or Germany beacuse you stay in Thailand ... but inofficially you are working from Thailand in the interweb ... but you don't have a business in the US and you don't have one in Thailand .. then on what legal ground do you write invoices to your customer in let's say the US.

Am I missing something here or am I too naive in this?

I am sure most of the people working on the "interweb" are paying taxes.

They are paying taxes in their country of origin.

They would like to pay the teaxes in Thailand instead if the Thai government would open them a legal way to start small and eventually grow.

I know there is no point in it if you think about things changing.

Nothing is changing in Thailand in the near future regarding this topic since there is no political will to do so.

In my opinion this is a big mistake ... especially in regards to ASEAN and upcoming neighboring countries with more small-business-friendly politics.

Still, it is an interesting topic. And why should we not argue about it.

Non-Amercians are arguing about the US weapon laws for example and compaing them to Europe. Can they change them? No.

So we talk about many things we cannot change every day. Thanks god we still do.

Ok, so the way is to get the business big outside Thailand so that you can afford the Thai prerequisites for establishing a business in Thailand and hope that there won't be any tough business times with smaller revenue.

As a supervisor you still cannot work because you don't have a work permit.

Did I get that right?

So you are allowed to supervise but not allowed to initiate sales?

But how does that help foreign people in establishing a small company in Thailand then and work?

Such as my Thai spouse can do in Europe from day 1 on without any problem.

So then even US citizens are not privileged regarding this.

Back to the example:

One farang webdesigner - 4 Thai employees = starting a small company in Thailand like this makes no sense because of the initial costs while being a small startup.

Benefit given to this potential small startup by the Thai government: A permission to stay and work legally. So not really much.

Potential long term benefit for the Thai country might be much bigger though if the startup start to subcontract and grow.

If not then not much harm done.

My question is hypothetical and not really helpful to the OP but related none the less... but what if someone is living here on a spouse visa?

Can they technically work over the internet "in home country" while living in Thailand on the spouse visa?

What if their job is over the internet, registered and paid to home country bank accounts, taxes paid in home country etc. They just transfer money to themselves here?

Globalization and the internet, making everything gloriously complex.

I think we are all adult and intelligent enough to know that you are not taking a job away from a Thai, are not doing business in Thailand so in effect are not working in Thailand

Neither is unpaid volunteering, but that also requires a work permit.

I see this a little bite different.

Volunteering and helping, for example, buildind a school or teaching a language is taking away jobs from locals.

Working from home on the internet solely for customers outside of Thailand rarely takes away jobs from Thais.

I know this is not relevant since the only thing that matters is the local law.

Still, my Thai partner is entitled to work from day 1 one in Europe.

No problem but pay taxes.

Starting as a small 1-(wo)man-show in Thailand, let's say in webdesign, does not involve bringing big money to Thailand at the beginning.

But it does not harm either.

And a 1-man-show can become bigger by legally subcontracting to locals, networking with them and then maybe after a certain time having the need to employ Thai people.

But this is not possible in Thailand.

Remember how Microsoft and Apple started? ;-)