FlyingThai

12 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

I am in the same situation as Skeptic7. Any information on a couple of questions would be appreciated:

 

1. There seem to be at least two agencies advertising the Elite program. Are they contractors sanctioned by the Thai government?

2. Is Elite actually a government sponsored program? Which ministry is responsible for it?

3. What is the legal recourse if the contracting agent disappears from the scene? I am enquiring about the scenario where one pays 500,000 Baht and the agency goes under for whatever reason after, say, 7 years.

The sales agents just funnel you to Thailand Elite and their only purpose is to convince you to buy. The entire transaction will be through Thailand Elite themselves, the agent gets a commission and is out of the picture.

I never got the point of using an agent unless they'd offer me a discount which hasn't happened anymore in recent years.

2 hours ago, alyx said:

Agreed...and that is why I am confused as you all seem to be writing about the sixth year (so the number of renewed visas is irrelevant ) or I must be missing something as I am pretty certain that the immigration would not give an extension at a later than the date stipulated on the visa of the member.

That "6th year" thing people are talking about here is different from the current "extra 6 months" promotion TE is running.

The promotion is official while the 6th year was never official and has been contingent upon leaving and re-entering the country short before expiration of the TE Visa, maybe even in combination with a re-entry permit. You'd get another one year stamp and as such could remain 6 years even though the visa is officially just for five. Same as you could use a TV that is good for entries until lets say 15.8. for another 3 months when you arrive on 14.8.

1 minute ago, alyx said:

Well I am confused or maybe I did not understand the comment I replied to.

I was talking about the kind of visa the member is on: the immigration officer knows if it is a 5/10/20/life as the categories are labelled accordingly.

Now, what you are saying is that they cannot know if the member is on their 1/2/3/4 or fifth year? But...the dates of issue and when the visa ends is clearly specified. How would anyone "not" know ?

Again I might be misunderstanding

Apologies in advance

The Visa itself only shows you "Issued on: xx.xx.xxx" and "Valid until xx.xx.xxxx" and that's a 5 year period.

The label doesn't contain the date your TE membership started or when your first visa was issued.

Of course they know the type of visa which is "PE" [or "SE" for the older types].

3 minutes ago, alyx said:

What do you mean, the immigration does not know what kind of "class" the visa is? If I am not mistaken these visas are labelled according to their categories and therefore the immigration officer is well aware of the duration of these visas

The IO can't tell if you're on your 1/2/3/4th 5 year visa sticker just by the designator of the membership number on the visa label (UP/FP/SE etc). The only way to check that would be the membership card.

1 hour ago, jacob29 said:

You're missing the point. It wasn't created as a cost effective way to remain in Thailand long term, something that backpackers or budget tourists could take advantage of. It's a way to encourage high net worth individuals who want to settle in Thailand an option, which benefits the Thai economy. They don't want people to live here, but if there's enough benefit for the Thai economy, they're willing to make concessions. That's not corruption, that's just pragmatic. Set the price to extortionate, to filter out people who aren't flush with cash. That's by design, it wouldn't work otherwise.

 

Exactly. Although I wouldn't call $3k per year (or $1600 on the 20 year SE Option) extortionate. I've dealt with immigration lawyers in the U.S. and Canada before and THAT was extortionate. the sums we're talking about here pale in comparison to that.

I seriously don't get the type of people who complain about a program that already carries the word ELITE in it's name. I don't consider myself "elite" as per definition but if the government wanted every bum to get this card/visa they would have named it Thailand Poverty and sell it at Khao San Road.

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

It is a good question. Simplest would just be to tell immigration at every entry point to treat Thailand Elite visas with an expiry date between the appropriate limits as if it was actually six months later. Another fairly easy alternative is for immigration to amend the current visa (requiring a visit to the immigration office).

I don't think that first option would be a very good idea and as someone who is getting a new 5 (5.5) year TE next month I definitely wouldn't accept a quasi "handshake deal" that the IO's know about it 5 years from now. Not in Thailand. In fact not anywhere if a $16k purchase is involved. I'm having a meeting next week at their office and will get this matter cleared (gonna report back here).

It wouldn't be practical either. Several times over the years I had an IO give me an incorrect entry in the passport and since the first time that happened I immediately check the stamp every single time, I don't trust them handling even a normal stamping correctly and they get really defensive when you demand a correction because then they have to tell their boss. The best was one time when I got a stamp that was dated a week in the past. This lady had stamped in people all day long with a wrong date and they refused to fix it until the head honcho arrived who then appeared to give the involved officers a serious colonoscopy. They sit around, play on their phones or get otherwise distracted. Nah!

In my case it's actually easy since my passport expires in 3 years and I need a new label into the renewed passport anyway.

Considering TE now has a promotion that gives you six months extra validity how exactly does that work when it comes to the visa issued if all they do is attaching a 5 year label into the passport?

Are you getting a new 6 month visa 5 years from now?

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

That declaration would only be needed if immigration said it is required.

Correct and that's what the last requirement was, hence the denial of most embassies to issue any more letters. Oh well let's see what their "plan" is if you can call it that.

I have an Elite Visa in the works but the THB shot up like crazy vs USD and we're now talking $16,150 / 500k Thb. Not gonna happen unless the Baht comes down again.

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no waiver of the one 60 day extension rule per entry to the country.

If you did not apply for a 30 day extension of your 30 day visa exempt entry you should able to apply for it.

I think the UK embassy will start doing the letters again after immigration informs them they are needed.

They can't issue the letters if they have to declare that there are no flights to the UK because that would be a false statement as things stand right now. That's also the reason given by the German Embassy.

11 hours ago, Airalee said:

Good answer.  
 

There is also the basic math behind it.  Let’s say (for arguments sake) that 40,000,000 tourists come to Thailand annually and that there are 150,000 full time expats/retirees.  At ฿100 per tourist entry, if all the proceeds went to the expats, each expat would get less than ฿30,000.  Not even close enough to covering proper insurance/healthcare costs.  I do feel, however, that the premiums charged here for these newly required policies are not proportional to the policy limits coverage or the cost of healthcare here in Thailand (when compared to policies and healthcare costs in the US for example) and either the coverage limits should be higher...or the premiums lower.

My Aetna (formerly BUPA) Platinum costs me 3,600 Baht per month for the 5 Mio Baht worldwide coverage package and that includes coverage for Covid-19 (confirmed to me via official letter for immigration purposes).

That being said IMHO any real "Expat" aka person with legal papers to stay in a foreign country should have a medical insurance as precondition for even being allowed to stay.

6 hours ago, Captain Monday said:

The only country I knew of that did free insurance for visitors was Panama, no longer.

So not Many countries as the OP quoted.Of course it is not for long term care but for immediate sickness and accidents for short term visitors. Thailand should mandate a 300 baht per day required fee for all short term visitors. Example 30 day visa exempt 3000 baht. 60 day tourist visa 6000 baht. Applied to tourist facility improvements, tourist police improvements and a emergency injury fund that should solve most problems with the various lowlifes who supposedly "skip out" on hospitals fleeing the Kingdom leaving large medical bills.

 

Ridiculous. Why should visitors pay $10 a day for some random insurance coverage? That exceeds by far what a very good travel insurance policy costs. We all know where this money would go and it's definitely not ending up improving any facilities.

The bad medical debt per year in Thailand is 300 Mio Baht which isn't a lot at all.

Have you seen the existing lines at BKK Immigration (pre Covid)? Good luck trying to ask 100 THB cash from each tourist. There isn't even an ATM in the concourse prior to immigration and even if how is that supposed to work?

You can't automatically tag it onto the ticket price because in that case it would charge everyone including Thai passengers as there is no distinction during a ticket purchase when it comes to nationality.

Based on a BKK Post article from March 2019
 

Quote

 

... Last year, foreigners incurred Bt305 million in unpaid medical bills. Foreigners in 2017 left Bt346 million in unpaid medical bills. If categorised by the number of medical visits, statistics show about one-fifth of foreign patients did not pay their bills.

For instance, foreigners made 3.42 million medical visits last year, and did not pay for 680,000 of them, while in 2017, foreigners made 3.3 million medical visits and did not pay for 565,000 of them. ...

 

I'm not a fan of unpaid bills but those number aren't a lot for a country that draws 17% of it's GDP from tourism (3.20 Trillion Baht).

Do the numbers based on the total arrivals, even 100 Baht would simply be a cash grab! 3.8 Billion Baht would be taken in annually based on 100 Baht/arrival but the actual amount of bad medical debt per year is around 300 Mil Baht. That a 13-fold of the actual amount on unpaid medical bills.

That being said there are plenty of foreigners who pay dearly (get ripped off by hospitals) for their treatments and one can argue the hospitals have already priced the default rates in, just like any prudent business would do.

On 8/3/2020 at 9:36 AM, LukKrueng said:

Any citizen of any country is supposed and should be able to get back to his country of citizenship in any circumstances. Thailand must allow Thai people back in even if their passport has expired, or they are sick, or even if they are hard core violent criminals. So even if a Thai person is tested positive to the virus, the Thai authorities CAN'T refuse him/her entry to the country.

The 14 days quarantine allow to separate the sick from the healthy and make sure that no local infections will result from letting them in.

Now - non-Thais is a different story. Thailand does not HAVE to take them in and can put any restrictions they see fit. If a non Thai tests positive there is no reason to allow him/her to go on a flight and enter Thailand. 

 

So if you know Thai people are not tested and you consider that to be too risky for you - you have the choice not to take the flight.

It's one thing to be legally entitled to enter your home country under any circumstances. A different matter to be put on a plane with 400 other people while carrying a highly contagious airborne virus that has so far put every country on the planet in peril. It's absolutely CRAZY that this is being allowed or in the very least not prevented. Emirates makes you provide a negative test and without that or let alone a positive test you ain't getting on the plane. No matter if Emirati or not.

On 8/3/2020 at 3:29 PM, Seik said:

Update: I pressed Elite again on my likelihood of getting the approval letter before the end of Amnesty. They say based on their experience they're confident it should arrive by the end of this month, so I'm going to put aside the Agent lead for now.

You will be fine. Depending on your nationality and record this should be processed quickly and most definitely prior to SEP 26th.

4 hours ago, beachtime said:

ok thanks.

it looks like there are a lot of new volunteer visa applicants.

Is there a risk of them not being approved or have they all been granted?

My assumption is that the 65k THB  fee include a sufficient amount of tea money that ensures issuance of the visa.

Would this be multiple entry though assuming you'd have or want to leave the country sometimes once travel resumes?

14 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

That is all there is, its in the system. You can take a screenshot if you like but immigration can see the entry. If you stay at the hilton hotel, the same thing happens, do you bother getting a screenshot at the hilton ?

You make a good point because I was asked by Thailand Elite that at the time I do my visa switch from Tourist Visa to TE Sticker I provide the TM.30 and should I go through with it I'd be staying at a Marriott in BKK. Wonder if they can actually provide any document I'll be able to use?

4 hours ago, Seik said:

Yes but are these flights even reliable? Most people aren't too keen on spending half their savings on one cancelled flight after the other.

Yes these schedules (AF, BR, KL LH, QR) are reliable and have been operating on a proper rotation.

I guess the main issue for many was also that they had TG tickets and TG refused to endorse them over to their Star Alliance partners. So now you have plenty of people sitting around in BKK/TH who have valid TG tickets but the Thai Airways bankruptcy caught up with them.

You can bet that it was indeed the government who told TG to run several commercial flights to Europe and Australia so to clear the amount of people staying behind and taking away their excuse of the cancelled TG tickets. FWIW TG does allow existing tickets to rebook to these flights to LHR/FRA (I checked with them last week).

2 hours ago, Peeba boy said:

Also anybody have any idea when airport in BKK will reopen for commercial flights 

The airport IS open for commercial flights. I guess you're asking when Immigration will allow general re-entry of foreigners and Thai nationals without pre-clearance. The answer to that is "nobody knows" and I wouldn't bet that any non-pre-clearance tourism will be possible in 2020.

You apply for them separately. You can apply for the re-entry permit as soon as you have the extension and it could be done in the same trip to immigration.

I don't know what the problem was when (or where) you applied before but as I said it should not be a problem it you have the correct documents.

If you got a new multiple entry visa you have to factor in a long trip to get it because you will not get one anywhere nearby. Plus of course the trips out of the country every 90 days.

I think there was some problem that they did not want to grant the multiple entry which is a deal breaker for me as i need to leave at least once a month. At that time I could have said I'm doing everything on a regular tourist visa as I'm never here for more than 4 weeks anyway but I'm not a fan of staying in a country longterm without proper documentation.

The application process for the new visa would actually be done by mail and in germany we are allowed to hold multiple passports (I have three right now) so that's not an issue. We shall see!

Thanks again for the info, I will take the economics and effort into account!

If you get an extension of stay at immigration you would need a re-entry permit if you want to travel. A single entry costs 1000 baht and a multiple is 3800 baht. Both would be valid for the length of you extension.

With the proper documents from the university it should not any problem to get the extension of stay.

Thanks for the info!

These need to be obtained separately?

So that's 1900 for the initial extension application plus 3,800 for the Multiple entry? That would be the same as a new visa outright plus the PITA of having to deal with them.

Hi everyone! Great input on this thread so far! I wonder if anyone can give me some additional fill on a case.

I'm studying at Thammasat University and have a 12 Month Multiple Entry which I got at the Embassy in Berlin. Easy process.

It will expire (last entry) at the end of July and I'm on the brink of deciding to extend it here locally or just get a clean new Visa in Berlin again (which was 130 EUR plus Agency/shipping fees).

Q: Would an extension for another year come with the same Multiple Entry function or do I have to obtain that separately? That is really the key part for me because I travel quiet frequently for both work and pleasure. Generally I hate dealing with this office here, I was there once before to extend my first 3 Months ED Visa (which was suggested to me by the consulate in Vancouver) and it was a disaster after which I got a clean sheet one in Germany.

Before speculation comes up, this is a legitimate and degree earning course costing me almost half a million THB over the 2.5 years period so no funny business.

On a side note for you guys: If you are eligible to apply for a Visa at the Embassy in Berlin, Germany it is possible to obtain a 12 Months ED Visa there. Not sure how that goes when you attend a language school but for 'real' Universities it's not a problem. In theory all EU citizen are free to roam around in all EU countries but if applying for Visa or other formalities you are often required to show a local residence registration. Didn't apply to me as I had a local german passport but maybe for some fellow europeans this could be useful!

Cheers!