Christie Paul

Malaysia has a lot going for it. I've been there many many times, It was always a relief to come back to Thailand. There's a kind of miserable haunting drollness about the place, I can't quite describe.

I've got lots of friends who live there and like it.

What I've seen after living in several different countries is that things change.

Mexico was superb. But not now.

Columbia was a nightmare - especially places like Medelin. Now it seems to be on the up and up.

Cambodia was out of the question for a long time. But now it's looking increasingly attractive.

Thailand was one of the best. But it terms of affordability, hospitality, safety, bureaucracy and investment its on a decline.

Unfortunately, as the economy grinds downward, tensions ratchet up, especially for those on the margins.

Numbers of visitors are down and they are staying for shorter periods and spending less.

I've seen this before.

But at least the out of touch energy policies, match the rest of the policies.

They are going to need more than a shield after they've driven the economy into the 7th circle of hell.

The Thais will come to love the Russians.

Because as Thailand's reputation plummets, well heeled Asians and Europeans will back off.

But when the Russians hear of the dangers, rip offs and shakedowns, they'll be like "what are we waiting for?"

Just to get his onto a bit more of reality:

For the last 100 years there was only one solution for the financial problems of the UK and the US: WAR !!!

Now they need a BIG one again as they can no longer hide their biggest problem: being BROKE !!!

[just like most of the rest of the world !]

As Russia is turning away from the west towards BRICS [most of all China and India] and as such away from the US Dollar

there is no other option for the west [especially the US and the UK] to try to stop this !

As a result they now try to bring down the Russian Currency and with it the Russian Government !

[the economy in Russia is far stronger than any western economy based on simple numbers !]

Europe needs Russia much more than Russia needs Europe !

For Thailand this is simple:

The Russian tourists are a thing of the past !

The european tourists numbers will also decline as a result of the downturn in the european economies

[unemployment rates in europe are just sky rocketing .... even though the propaganda media tries hard to

show a different picture]

Japan is down on it's knees with Depth / GDP levels higher than Greece !

Thailand [just like the rest of the globe] is in for a pretty tough ride in 2015++

We might get used to it and maybe we can stop this really stupid talking about "quality" tourists against

any other tourists .... if neither come to Thailand then Thailand has a huge problem ! [and not only Thailand].

The UK should be ashamed starting those WWI and WWII wars for financial reasons. The USA couldn't wait for more wars and attacked Japan because...........This logic is pretty stupid=no 'brains'

WHO started those wars?

Bankers of course - they fund both sides. Can't lose.

Murder the Brits.

Attack the Dutch until they are unconscious.

Assault the Swiss because they don't buy from street vendors.

Mug the Chinese and Japanese in taxis.

Shake down all and sundry on the streets.

But we don't want Russians because they are ill mannered.

This is horrendous.

I fear it's going to increase as revenues drop, compounded by Thailand's ever diminishing reputation as a safe destination.

To those who immediately suggest that probably the Swiss guy had it coming might have a point. Maybe he was rude.

But if this story reaches Switzerland, we can expect less tourists from Switzerland and Europe. The Swiss are known to be amongst the most innocuous, peaceable and dead boring people on earth. As tourists they are coveted by everyone.

I'm familiar with Russian academics. Generous, rough, tough, thoughtful, profoundly philosophical, with great humour and no manners whatsoever.

Everyone who has provoked and then underestimated these people have done so at their peril.

Don't allow foreigners to own land.

That would be the beginning of the end of independence.

Once foreign investors have a foot in the door, they inevitably try to grab hold on all natural resources, and they don't give a damn what happens to the population on the land.

Imperialistic logic will force them to do so, regardless of their very personal intentions.

The owning of land is virtually illusory.

Almost no one actually owns land in any country.

There is only one title which proves ownership and that is an Allodial title.

Whenever it is expedient or if the real owners want it back, they can take it.

In the meantime they tax it and collect rent on it, which is proof that mostly those who consider themselves "owners", even to the extent they are named as such in legalise are not the actual owners.

Logical business policy is not linear and does not always comport with immediate gains. It can appear erroneous and stupid, so as to effectively mask its true and often diabolical intentions.

Perhaps 90% of the people, Thai and Falang would benefit from more transparency, more open policies, less ridiculous bureaucracy and a positive business environment.

But the super elite may have other ideas.

Their view could well be that the country has sustained enormous growth over the last decade, consequently their interests have been diluted. This is of particular importance when you consider that the world economy is presently tanking. Real growth is illusory and they know it. So why not collapse this house of cards, let prices tank, unemployment go through the roof and then simply wade through the debris and cherry pick every asset you want for a fraction of its former price?

A proper examination the of the great depression reveals this strategy (and result) very clearly, but not many people, perhaps because of how odious it is, can entertain the idea that any group of people could be so cruel. This is why a heuristic understanding of events and history are so important and perhaps why history is subject to more propaganda than even current events.

The simplest, most extreme and best example, is contrived war. Nothing transfers wealth like it.

Making racist remarks about the simplicity and stupidity of Thais, is firmly at odds with the rather large contingent of Thai intergenerational family business's, that measure their wealth in the billions of dollars and are spread over half a dozen jurisdictions. This point should be emphasised because it is they, more than any other players, that exert the most influence over the policies which shape the current landscape.

What I don't understand is, why is the west committing economic suicide?

I've read all your rant. Fact is, as of today food and goods are on the tables of westerners but not Russians. When it will be the opposite, you will be right. In the meantime, enjoy times of growing prosperity (according to your predictions) in Russia.

You are right in a way. The Europeans have food all right...an estimated 12 billion dollars worth of projected per annum of small goods, produce and would you believe cheese, that used to go to Russia, that now as a result of sanctions won't. So the Russians now buy from South America and will just have to learn how to make their own cheese.

As for goods, your kind of right again. But those 6000 German companies that rely on trade with Russia are not so happy about it. Then who will supply Russia with goods? Perhaps their new biggest trading partner, China.

I'm no Russophile, but I do make an attempt to research and understand what is happening. If I'm factually incorrect on any point or if I've omitted something important, I welcome correction.

I like this thread, first one where the Americans aren't somehow to blame!

Fantastic LOL

Hold your horses. Who do you think made the rouble take a plunge in the first place?

Yep its the combination of the US and EU sanctions enforced on them,,, And it is working

It's not working. The real measure of an economy is its wealth.

Unlike the US and Europe, Russia does not have massive debts, it actually has a massive surplus.

Not only a massive surplus, but even with oil tanking in price, they manage a large ongoing trade surplus.

The Ruble, is it's token fiat currency, not a metric of wealth, which was hit by speculators, which has not effected Russia's real wealth i.e vast amounts of gold, foreign reserves and perhaps the worlds greatest repository of mineral and oil wealth. And they have a military with state of the art nuclear capacity. The US and NATO has so far only proven useful in the humanitarian bombing of defenceless countries. Russia is something else, good luck wit that.

The overthrow of the democratically elected government of the Ukraine and the subsequent installation of a fascist western puppet regime and the attack on the Ruble was perhaps done in the hope for a regime change in Russia. And that looks most unlikely. Despite the fact that common Russians have been hit hard by these manoeuvres, they are way too tough and too familiar with real politik to be so easily manipulated.

But it gets worse for the West. Crimea broke free from the Ukranian fascists and is now reunited back to its historical place with Russia. And Russia keeps its naval base and easy access to the Mediterranean. A total fiasco.

The Southstream pipeline of Russian gas, won't go to Europe now, that will teach the Russians! Ok says Putin, we'll ship our gas through Turkey. If the Europeans want cheap gas, let them pay extra for it via Turkey. The Europeans have driven a wedge between themselves, NATO and cheap gas in one shot and now will have to negotiate with Erdogan. Nightmare.

Far from being isolated, China with the worlds largest foreign reserves is grateful to Russia for keeping the west occupied with the stupidity in the Ukraine, whilst it buys up the world and gives an assurance to Russia that it will collaborate on currency swaps and soft development loans etc.

What I don't understand is, why is the west committing economic suicide?

.

It's a good idea to focus on the poor.

Because under the current economic management there's going to be a lot more of them.

I think this story confirms that tourism revenues have utterly tanked.

immigration, poolice, tat and the government have been making it difficult for expats and tourists, pushing them away, bet thats not helping the cash flow

Nonsense! The only people effected by the recent crackdown have been foreigners living here on multiple VOA's.

Don't post drivel.

Technically more or less correct. But what is the result of this enlightened policy?

Many thousands of long term visitors, who stayed within immigration regulations and considerable personal expense made Thailand their base. For the most part they belonged to the unofficial "we love Thailand" brigade. And this was reflected in their millions of email, blogs and social media input. They invested in real estate and their contribution to the economy was not insignificant.

Then they got turfed out, many labeled them as "abusers" of the system etc. Thousands of relationships became untenable, many worked abroad and suddenly suffered great inconvenience, as they had to scramble to liquidate their assets and relocate.

And most likely a huge number of them have now joined the "we hate Thailand" brigade, and from their new abodes in Cambodia, Philippines and other places, busily express their disdain, in their millions of emails, thousands of blogs and social media input.

And there's no shortage of topics for them to magnify their point. The murders, the corruption, the shake downs, the beatings, the swindles, random piss tests, absurd immigration regulations, double pricing and the growing anti foreigner sentiment. To be fair, to a greater and lesser degrees, all countries have similar problems, but not all of them have tens of thousands of post loyalists, many of whom are furious at the way they have been treated.

When William Congreve said "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned", he probably didn't realise the same principle may apply to former long term visitors to these shores.

And to those who for whatever reason have a low opinion of those long term VOA former residents, citing their lack of resources, criminality and who are sticklers for the "law is the law" principle, I would remind you of nuns of Saint Ebba, who upon hearing of a Viking invasions decided to disfigure themselves in the hope it would protect their chastity. The Vikings found them so disgusting, they burned their convent to the ground. So cutting your nose off to spite your face isn't always a great idea, even when augmented by a high minded principles.

Over the last few years, I have seen first hand in my dealings with people from all over the world, the perception of Thailand go from being "the place to be", to a "place to avoid". And unfortunately, this is a sentiment now echoed by tens of thousands, who like the Vikings (but not me), would be happy to see the place burn to the ground.

The US is concerned about the democratic process in Thailand, I wonder how they would feel about it if such process democratically elected a communist government, would they feel about it the same way they feel when the Palestinian democratic process elected Hamas or the Egyptian process elected the Muslim brotherhood?

The only democracy the US is interested in is one that produced results conducive to US interests

You are right, but failed to mention that the US also supports monarchies, fascist dictators, islamic terrorists and presumably any kind of a system that is conducive to US interests.

Ok... Here's what happened.

I thought I was meeting one guy for a private meeting. But the meeting was full-on with press and lots of high-taking police.

Pol. Lt. Gen Prawuth was extremely interested in what has been happening. He speaks great English, asked lots of questions and took notes. Pol. Maj. Gen. Apichat was very encouraging.

They said that this is the right time to come forward and address the issue. That changes are coming in the police force and they really appreciate the input.

Unfortunately, my stories don't have much detail. I don't remember names and faces of the cops involved.

They asked me if I could find anyone else with similar stories who had any more details.

So, if anyone can remember the names, numbers or faces of police that harassed them, they would be more than happy to meet and find out.

I'm prepared to go with anyone and do introductions or whatever it takes.

Anyone got any stories they would like to share with the top brass? We could make it a group outing....

source https://www.facebook.com/groups/fooktheboysinbrown/?fref=nf

I do not wish to demean what is a stella efforts to get this resolved but...

To suggest that the top brass don't know what is going on defies credulity.

This story is now "out". It's all over numerous travel forums, SMH and Daily Mail and will certainly only expand further.

If there is any interest whatsoever to ensure that foreigners are not mistreated by the police - the solution is too simple.

A monitored and recorded toll free call number in multiple languages, in which any person can request assistance (or report abuse), when dealing with the police.

The revenues that have and will be lost from negative publicity, will doubtless vastly outweigh amounts secured through intimidation. And only when this is fully apprehended, will the problem disappear.

I agree entirely with your analysis but not solution. Thais do not have a corruption phone line and Europeans won't either. The usual solution to police and army corruption is a government answerable to the people. The people then accordingly control what type and what level of corruption is a acceptable to them based on how they view the laws that control them and to whom they are applied.

There was a time when an aggressive Tourist Police, really did protect tourists from rip off artists and would quickly take charge in police matters when foreigners were involved. They seem to have faded away.

My solution of a toll fee number for foreigners and tourists to get assistance when dealing with the police was a measure that could be introduced quickly to counter the extremely negative publicity, that will reassure visitors to the kingdom, that they have some recourse to protection from police intimidation.

But you are probably right, I doubt there is the political will (at present) for that or a similar remedy.

Ok... Here's what happened.

I thought I was meeting one guy for a private meeting. But the meeting was full-on with press and lots of high-taking police.

Pol. Lt. Gen Prawuth was extremely interested in what has been happening. He speaks great English, asked lots of questions and took notes. Pol. Maj. Gen. Apichat was very encouraging.

They said that this is the right time to come forward and address the issue. That changes are coming in the police force and they really appreciate the input.

Unfortunately, my stories don't have much detail. I don't remember names and faces of the cops involved.

They asked me if I could find anyone else with similar stories who had any more details.

So, if anyone can remember the names, numbers or faces of police that harassed them, they would be more than happy to meet and find out.

I'm prepared to go with anyone and do introductions or whatever it takes.

Anyone got any stories they would like to share with the top brass? We could make it a group outing....

source https://www.facebook.com/groups/fooktheboysinbrown/?fref=nf

I do not wish to demean what is a stella efforts to get this resolved but...

To suggest that the top brass don't know what is going on defies credulity.

This story is now "out". It's all over numerous travel forums, SMH and Daily Mail and will certainly only expand further.

If there is any interest whatsoever to ensure that foreigners are not mistreated by the police - the solution is too simple.

A monitored and recorded toll free call number in multiple languages, in which any person can request assistance (or report abuse), when dealing with the police.

The revenues that have and will be lost from negative publicity, will doubtless vastly outweigh amounts secured through intimidation. And only when this is fully apprehended, will the problem disappear.

This issue has been in the Daily Mail and Sydney Morning Herald and this is only the beginning.

Stories are lifted, syndicated, translated and redistributed. Within a week or two the same story will appear in a farmers gazette in rural Germany.

I cannot believe that the TAT didn't jump on this thing in its infancy. This along with half a dozen other less than positive stories.

Tourism revenues are going to tank.