Expat Girl

Well said Blabo, if I was you I would hit them with some hard facts, please let them have it, I am behind you all the way, hope this does not sound sarcastic, not my intent, but hit them with facts, links, articles etc... they will step back when you do this

That is one thing, but the deluge of conspiracies and accusations have consequences, it's not just harmless speculation.

Ppeople are being defamed, for one; there have also been calls for vigilante justice for another and also calls to boycott Koh Tao. Last but not least the families of the victims have unequivocally stated that such speculation has been harmful to them.

Now, in view of the conflicting information, the misinformation, the lack of information and the outright lies surrounding the case what is one to do? I, for one, think the ethical stance is to see what evidence is presented at the trial and how it holds up to scrutiny.

Sounds pretty logical except for the fact that for a fair trial the (at time of writing) innocent persons' defence counsel should be given access to said evidence then they can cast any doubts on how it was obtained prior to it being presented in court.

AleG you seem to hang closely to what the families said, and they said they want to see a FAIR and TRANSPARENT trial. And with prosecutors and UK govt withholding what could be crucial evidence so it can't even be scrutinized before it is seen in court seems to be very unfair and nontransparent don't you think.

You can't have it both ways. The investigation was an absolute disgrace by any standards and by withholding evidence and nullifying the fairness and transparency the trial seems to be going very much the same way as the investigation. Or please can you tell me i'm missing the point, and why. Thank you

The evidence will be presented in court for the defendants to contest it, if they want to see the results of the UK investigation they should request it, if that is denied without a plausible explanation and or the prosecutors evidence is kept from the defense then we may start talking about an unfair trial. As it is now the trial has just begun and the stage of presenting evidence and witnesses has not been reached yet.

Spot on, i can imagine a request being made and those pesky UK sources simple saying they cannot interfere with the Thai judicial system, as you say such rebutance will lead to an unfair trial, refreshing to see someone thinking logically that the evidence needs to be shared, either in the UK or here in Thailand, and failure to share will lead to an unjust outcome, thank you.

Am I missing some reports but didn't that lowlife Mon and his local police sidekick captured threatening Sean refuse to give any DNA. Thats certainly what I remember about the early events and reported in numerous online media sites and never seen other reports contradicting that?

McAnna, a busker well known on Koh Tao as Guitarman, took a photo of the Thais and uploaded it to the Internet, after which he began receiving death threats. He has now apparently fled into hiding in fear for his life.Police revealed that the two Thais had been interviewed but were released after refusing to provide DNA samples.

http://time.com/3420299/thailand-koh-tao-murder-hannah-witheridge-david-miller/

I'm expecting the usual reply of they were early suspects and cleared.

Nothing to see here.

I agree, how the hell could he quote from such as publication as Time. You know what, lets counter comment from another tabloid of similar low standing, there must be some an abundant amount of info available. I have faith in you, looking back at your posts they excel in quality and lets beat these 'conspiracy theorists' with our hard well sourced facts.. 100% behind you, please don't let me down, i have every confidence in you.

This link below was originally posted by catsanddogs.

The email, from an official in the South-East Asia department, passed to the Guardian by Chomphuchat, says they could only pass on information with the permission of Thai authorities or the trial judge.

The Met police team in Thailand had only reviewed the investigation “to provide reassurance” to the victims’ families, the FCO email explained, meaning the primary evidence “remains in the possession of the Thai police and prosecutor”. The only possible information could come from the Jersey and Norfolk coroners, who hold copies of UK autopsy reports on Witheridge and Miller, it added, saying it is up to the coroners to decide whether they can share this.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/15/thailand-murders-burmese-defence-foreign-office-fair-trial

I am English and every faith that the British police will do the right thing with out breaching any diplomatic rules attached to their observer status. This case is not going to be won or lost on evidence so maybe the somebody will leak the police report at the most beneficial time.

I can't believe the Thai authorities are willing to let these scapegoats go down knowing that this case will drag on for many years through the appeals process and the international press will pick it up everytime and dent Thailand's reputation losing more tourist dollars every time the story is repeated.

If the Thai police's case is so strong maybe the British police will be called by the prosecution to give credibility to their case. They certainly need it.

You say that the UK police will do the right thing without breaking rules attached to their observer status and then go on to talk about them leaking the police report?

You also ignore the fact that the UK police met with the families prior to the families making a public statement. Why do you think you have more relevant information than the families?

The case will be resolved based on evidence or lack of credible evidence and not because of conspiracy theorists online.

Congratulations this is the longest post I have seen you write.

I said somebody not them by which I mean anybody who has had access to the report. Typists, PA's, politicians, filing clerks or many other people who do not want to see innocent people found guilty of a crime they did not commit.

I did not ignore the fact that the UK police met with the families prior to the families making a public statement. The families statement is ambiguous and the way you interpret it is unlikely to be correct.

If this case was going to be resolved based on evidence or lack of credible evidence different suspects would be on trial.

OK, I will bite. What part of the families statements were ambiguous?

The part where they called for a trial?

The part where they acknowledged the speculation online and said it causes pain?

The part where they talked about the strength of the evidence against the defendants?

Which part was ambiguous?

Great post JD, you hit the nail right on the head, keep forging ahead we are behind you... if i had one comment it would be to stay fully focused on these topics, do not let it drop. May the force be with you... cant wait for the new Star Wars movie.

Uber Black is the name for the sedan vehicles service. When Uber started here in Bkk around March 2014 and for the next 6 months or so... that was the only service they offered.

The Uber X class is smaller, cheaper, and a different kettle of fish from what I read.

I have used and continue to use Uber Black. It is OUTSTANDING. It is sublime to have the tech services to call a car, see its location, communicate with the driver, etc. etc. You can send it to pick up a friend and take them somewhere. I have taken loads of Uber rides and only ever had a few unsatisfactory experiences.

For the fees they charge, if you are mostly in downtown Bkk, and use it fairly regularly as I do, it can be the equivalent of having a personal driver for less than 10,000 Baht a month.

I love coming out of a meeting with clients or colleagues to see a black Camray or Black Mercedes (they have a few) parked at curbside and the driver standing with the door open asking if I am Mr. ___-

I have had friends tell me they loved impressing the girls with a pick up from a club or restaurant in their Uber Black.

Inside they have bottled water, soft seats, lots of leg room and PEACE and QUIET. Silence. It is bliss. I can take a call or simply sit and chat with my colleague. Open my laptop and do a bit of work. Nice soft arm rests and A/C you control yourself. The leg room alone is worth it. At 190 cm I am sick and tired of squeezing into the back seat of an old taxi.

Uber Black is a class act and welcome respite from the taxis of Bkk. I love the taxis of Bkk and their cheap fares. And I use them as well. But for no hassles, professional car services, Uber Black is fantastic.

PM me for a discount code and get 200 Baht credit free when you register and take your first ride.

Uber can not under cut prices on Taxis except in Phuket..Thai taxis are already just about

every where when ever you need them..

If you call Uber do you really think a driver can afford to drive a Mercedes at taxi rates? Forget it its not going to happen..Yes I am sure they have one or two photo-op Mercedes..

Until Thai taxis double or triple their rates Uber will be a non player in Thailand...

Actually it works well, what most people forget is that a lot of these cars are owned and managed by hotels, in most cases, and are used during periods of inactivity. Casing example, i used the service tonight, yes it is still running, a new Toyota Camry, from Ekamai to Silom, and the driver mentioned he worked for a hotel on Soi 24.

Cost was 238 Baht, great value in my mind given the traffic was heavy, particularly in the Silom area. Courteous driver, no need to give directions and two bottles of water sat in the back of the car. Needless to say i am a big fan of Uber and use them most days so i could be a little biased.

There is a balance in the Millers family statement, on the one hand they are saying that people should put off further speculation on the case but they are also highlighting the need for a fair and transparent trial along with thanking the rights groups involved in this:

Miller Family

The evidence collected by the Royal Thai police will be presented at court and we hope the suspects are granted a fair and transparent trial. We are thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty.

So what did those particular rights groups say regards this case that the Miller family are thanking them for:

Reprieve

"Maya Foa from the fair trials group Reprieve, said the group extended deep sympathies to the victims’ families and “understand their desire to see that those responsible are held to account”. She added: “We also share their desire to see a fair and transparent trial process. At the moment, however, this does not seem to be happening.

Amnesty

“The Thai authorities must initiate an independent, effective and transparent investigation into mounting allegations of torture and other ill-treatment by police,” said Richard Bennett, Amnesty International’s Asia-Pacific Programme director.

“The pressure to be seen to be solving an appalling crime that has garnered considerable attention should not result in the violation of rights, including to a fair trial.”

The way things are presently the likelihood of a fair and transparent trial look more remote as each day passes.

You noticeably left out the balance you say is there. What did they say about the evidence against the defendants?

The Miller's Said,

Quote,

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing. They must respond to these charges, and their arguments must be considered with the same scrutiny as those of the prosecution.

Lets not confuse their views on human rights with their view on the guilt of these suspects. Same, just because the police threatened or abused them into confessing, doesn't mean they are innocent, it just means in Thailand and most lessor developed nations accused or convicted are generally not treated to the same standard we like to see in our home countries.

Bottom line, based on the family statements, they both seem like very good hearted and rational people who clearly have more insight and info into this case than any of and their motives for wanting to see the right people convicted should be above question.

I somewhat disagree with your first paragraph, we have to draw some synergies between them allegedly being abused and them being prosecuted as guilty, such behavior gives a lot of credence as to how far authorities may go in prosecuting individuals for alternative motives. The alleged abuse could have well forced their initial confessions, and such confessions, although later retracted, will presumably play into the hands of the prosecutor.

Hahaha...I thought this post should have allowed down a long time ago. But the rtp advocate still are at it.

Please consider this. If the RTP has a perfect case, then there is nothing to debate about. Since its already perfect.

So let it go. You are making the rtp case look weaker with every post. I think the rtp defenders know that the case has some weak points and flawed and want to make them self believe that it is not by repeating the same mantra.

These supporters would like to make RTP the first police force in the world to have the first flawless case.

Perhaps you should look at the OP.

Then find anyone saying the investigation wasn't flawed.

I am unaware of any post other than one quoting a news article which states that the investigation was not flawed.

But please, feel free to ignore the statements from the families....

Exactly, that is reason why there is much discussion about this is because many people see the flaw and would like to discuss about it. But everytime they do, you have an immediate rebuttal staying that the same thing. And advocating that the police have the right murderer and without ever seeing the report.

BTW I am not ignoring the plead from the families. The two defendant family have not ask people to help them. So why are you trying to stop people who want to see a fair trial?

You keep saying respect the rights of the family, but yet you continue to disrespect them by posting more. It takes two to tango.

I am not posting speculation and conspiracy theories.

You are greatest peddler of conspiracies on this forum, a lot of what you say is just 'blathering' about nothing, you have made your 20,000 post, so now take a well deserved break.

Still going strong today.... maybe agreed to stop, but not yet implemented

Arhhh, i love Uber, use them several times a week. Drivers typically speak English, in most cases you do not need to tell them were to go, never refuse, cars are very clean and you always get a receipt delivered to your email address. The existing taxi's are very poor, both in vehicle and the drivers, i would hazard to say in many cases dangerous.

Lakegeneve is there going to be another collection for him?

He and others contributing in helping out this other person, might have fallen victim of a "freeloader",

Indeed, a fool and his money are soon parted, he was well intentioned, but he was conned and made a fool of.

Mmmm, i suspect your the one who is making a fool of oneself with these stupid posts, give it a break.

How sad, just found Dave Millers facebook page, his friends and family are still updating, his brother posted just a couple of days ago and its clear with all the links and posts for the change.org petition that the whole family backed it 100%

To all of those troll posters here who kept belittling the petition and how in your views it made no difference. I hope you now feel ashamed.

https://www.facebook.com/dangerdaveuk

Not ashamed at all. It had zero bearing on what is happening in Thailand.

can you provide prove or is that a guess? or just trolling?

See JLCrab's posts

irrelivent. please review, seems to switch from one angle to another, other a short period of time...

JTJ and jdinasia!! Please come around and explain this one to us!!

Did you not read the article??

they did hence the question

From the article ""We will allow suspects to take another DNA test," Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O-Cha told reporters after a weekly cabinet meeting. "If they think that the previous tests were unfair we will conduct a second test."

As said. they did

Not evident from the question.

It is please review

JTJ and jdinasia!! Please come around and explain this one to us!!

Did you not read the article??

they did hence the question

From the article ""We will allow suspects to take another DNA test," Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O-Cha told reporters after a weekly cabinet meeting. "If they think that the previous tests were unfair we will conduct a second test."

As said. they did

Not evident from the question.

Clear to me

JTJ and jdinasia!! Please come around and explain this one to us!!

Did you not read the article??

they did hence the question

From the article ""We will allow suspects to take another DNA test," Prime Minister Prayut Chan-O-Cha told reporters after a weekly cabinet meeting. "If they think that the previous tests were unfair we will conduct a second test."

As said. they did

Why does it matter? Conspiracy nuts will just not believe and demand more proof only to then go on and disbelieve that.

.

What kind of results are these people thinking will happen ... that somehow the two DNA samples collected at the scene will somehow match a third person making two people who don't even share the same heritage having identical DNA. THEY ALREADY MATCHED THE DNA and this kid was not even on the island at the time of the murders. At least their is tough defamation laws in Thailand and this is a perfect example of when they should be used.

Check your facts, again you are back tracking your original thoughts on this forum and others.... which remain anonymous due to mod requests....

JTJ and jdinasia!! Please come around and explain this one to us!!

Did you not read the article??

they did hence the question

@jdinasia

"It doesn't?"

well actually it does, cite. zellerman vs croker..

Why does it matter? Conspiracy nuts will just not believe and demand more proof only to then go on and disbelieve that.

.

What kind of results are these people thinking will happen ... that somehow the two DNA samples collected at the scene will somehow match a third person making two people who don't even share the same heritage having identical DNA. THEY ALREADY MATCHED THE DNA and this kid was not even on the island at the time of the murders. At least their is tough defamation laws in Thailand and this is a perfect example of when they should be used.

If the matches are so certain, why has the prosecutor sent the docket back THREE times?

Why don't know for sure, so I guess that is a good reason to believe it has something to do with DNA?

What we do know is clearly a judge, prosecutors and police believe their is enough evidence and they they are still in jail. We also know this case was rushed to get to the prosecutors and get reports released (because of conspiracy nuts) and even in the west this would be an incredibly quick time to get everything completely properly in presenting the case to prosecutors. But yea, must be because the DNA doesn't match.

Read the media reports before posting, your comments contradict your intial thoughts on this event, please do not jump from one goal post to another, very poor.

A second test to compare with what. That is the key thing. No-one is doubting the tests. Everyone is doubting the samples which they were compared with. Where did these samples come from?

Many people were doubting the tests "came back too fast" etc

I spoke to soon. Welcome in. Without opposition there is no debate. Without debate there will be no conclusion. As much as it pains me to say I'm glad one of you is here to stir things up and provide stimulus.

Incorrect..... think about it

@jdinasia

"but not part of the case" however, is stated as fact.

Fair point, do agree with you.

It is a fact - the police presented a case which implicates two accused. Case perfect, perfecter and closed - oops, now open again.

Do you think for one minute they would have put it forward, to prosecutors if a third person's presence was confirmed as having drooled over the victim? A deranged animal?

JD gets very defensive whenever the third DNA trace is mentioned - it seems to push his buttons a little harder - wonder why?

I think we can all agree its been a long way from being perfect, i am just hoping it will all become clear in the next couple of weeks with some concrete evidence being presented. I personally still feel a lot better knowing the British Police are here, and it seems may be here for a while longer and i am quietly confident they are doing much more than the 'observers' role and are actively involved in the case.

Not sure why JD gets defensive, he does tend to put up some good counter arguments which i think people do not want to hear, but also i think he does in some cases post to stir people up, but in general its all good to keep the topic open.