sabaitoo

47 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

The high average age and so high numbers of elderly people in Italy would explain the higher death rate.  The same demographic issue will also cause the overloading of the wards.  

 

And if we look at the many Youtube documentaries from the Italian hospital wards, you can see all the people on the respirators look to be 70+.  

 

The fatality rate of an illness is not only down the virus itself - demographics, standards of hospital care, culture, climate - all have an impact and you'd think a doctor would know this?

 

 

 

 

You seem to have absolutely no clue, do you..I suggest you see the 2 videos in this article : https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597?

some info on Ditlefsen

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2003/12/08/smallb1.html

I don't belive his name was Styk Yohanne Kristian. No way any person in Sweden have a name like that

Zlatan Ibrahamovic. Date of birth 3 October 1981 (age 33) Place of birth Malmö, Sweden

Never heard of him? Not a Swedish name, so can't be Swedish. Surely not everyone is Somebodyssonson?

Perhaps his name should be Ibrahamovicsson?

BTW, he kicks a football around for FC Paris St Germain.

Swedish football players Do they actually have any ?? Last time I watched a game with Swedes on the field, I fell asleep after 2 minutes

He is not on Ibiza, forwarded his pictures and the info around..and had a check a family member who has lived there for over 30 years, they also checked with locals, nobody seems to know him.

If anyone has more specific info about the guy in relation to Ibiza send a PM and I can have it checked out

Another missing http://missingabroad.org/missing-profile/lauren-hebden last known whereabouts KT

Diving Instructor at Mojo Divers Koh Tao, School is located at the North end of Sairee Beach....Murder Beach

Guess the show has been financed by TAT

Another day, another death in Koh Tao, so that is 4 deaths of tourists in less than a 6 month period...

Correction .....Five !

more..much more in total..... if you include the locals and the Burmese workers..those who never get in the news or just are found as floaters here and there

Why all this speculation? Did you not read the "Samui Times" this week? It told us "Relatives of a French tourist who hanged himself did not doubt the nature of his death, Surat Thani police said." Interesting facts are reported in the Samui Times, like this week they tell us that Thailand has the world's "longest single-span suspension bridge". ;-0

mmmm Surat Thani police said

"The embassy has said relatives did not doubt his death after they were explained of the investigation procedure of the Thai police and the autopsy result."

Now the French government is also into the cover up of crimes in Koh Tao?

Now this it what you claim... I do not recall to have seen any statements from the French Embassy, Source please or did you dream it up yourself...if the source is RTP...oh well

It’s Official Dimitri Povse’s Death on Koh Tao Deemed a Suicide

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/its-official-dimitri-povses-death-on-koh-tao-deemed-a-suicide.html

There was hand written note on his bed that said, in French, “Iris, I love you. Suicide seems easy but it is actually difficult.”

Somsak added that since Povse’s hands were only loosely tied, he may have inserted his hands into the rope just before committing suicide

What is official..a 3 day old article quoting an article in Coconuts Bangkok..no new information , the definition of loosely tied has been debated for days so has the alleged suicide note...

Still a suspicious departure anyway you try to turn it

Anyone know these fellows ??

Picture from 1 Jan. 2015 AC Bar ( 68 likes)

Weird sense of humour..oh well

Did anyone see the suicide note?

If there was a suicide note written in (assuming) perfect french, then the case seems to be pretty clear. No way any Thai on Koh Tao could fake a note like that, not even in english! (Not even talking about the handwriting)

That would be enough reason for the RTP to conclude it was a suicide.

Unless you believe the potential killers first forced him to write a suicide note and then tried to fake a suicide that looks like a murder (e.g. not cutting the ropes around his wrists). Does that really make sense to you? Really people, think about that.

There is a comment in this or the other thread that the suicide note was in French and Spanish.

No doubt somone on this forum will claim soon that Mon is fluent in French and Spanish.

Interesting....The so-called friend you all claimed or imagined was representing the victims family, who wrote a few lines on CSILA..quoted a lot here, is actually Spanish....Interesting Indeed.... why would a Frenchman write some of his allegedly last words in Spanish...Thanks for the input Anthony5, you just added valuable information to the case

BREAKING NEWS..( well sort of...hmmm not really..but on THAI PBS video )

The owner of the rented Bungalow state in the video he believe it was suicide.... (wow an expert..I guess)

The Chief of Police, Prachum Ruangtong believe it was a case of suicide....because.... ( drum rolls ) a French girl on Koh Tao did not answer a phone call from the victim, that left him heartbroken and caused him to commit suicide....

UPDATE:

Criminologist doubts suicide theory of a tourist

BANGKOK: -- A criminologist has voiced his support for calls by media and relatives of a victim of suspected suicide by the police and forensic experts to look for more evidences to determine the exact cause of the death the victim.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/789218-french-man-found-dead-in-koh-tao-incident-being-treated-as-suicide-not-homicide/page-7?p=8900725#entry8900725

What a joke , hes friends and family have asked respect their sorrow and have stated they believe he took hes own life.

This Joker of professor comes out and tryes to get famous . Some people..

Beside 1....that is 1 poster ( Spanish, Koh Tao regular and with several friends on Koh Tao )on CSILA, who claimed to be a friend of the victim , I have seen no other statement from family, it was mentioned in an article they found the death suspicious ( but that could be a journalist opinion) .. so where you get what his friends and family has asked for is a mystery... now go back to your Island friends and keep dreaming of paradise lost..

Actually Dr. Porntip is saying it is early to rule it a suicide , there is an interview with her on Thai PBS, not allow to link as the interview is in Thai

If this man had been black and resided in the part of the US I grew up in I'd be just as suspicious as I am of this case. He may or may not have committed suicide. Anything that happens on KT is subject to much disbelief when it comes to so-called "investigations". There is a family there that will never be investigated. If I had ever let a crime scene become contaminated (purposely) like it was in the earlier murders I would have been fired in a heart beat. "As much as I like the opening sentences you make but the rest is nothing else as bashing the RTP and Thai pathologists. Trust me the majority of them do their job to their best of their abilities despite what is most of the time said on this forum." Trust you, surely you jest, what are you qualifications? You know some Thais, wow so do I and even the cops know they are crooked, give me a break. Well ms ThaiUser perhaps when you get some smarts, street and other wise, you will realize why so many on this forum do not believe in the abilities of the RTP or most of the pathologists, much less their honesty. Money talks, bulls**t walks and so do "investigations", DNA, autopsies and criminals. Many of us have been here over 10 yrs., some much longer and we still don't know all there is to know, still learning, but no farang ever will ever know all and that certainly includes you. But, deductive reasoning does work wonders. Try it sometime.

Trust me the majority of them do their job to their best of their abilities despite what is most of the time said on this forum." Trust you, surely you jest, what are you qualifications?

Peter Marco Falconio was a crime victim in Australia and the forensic case officer there was a female with the first name of Megan (Police Sergeant). Get in contact with her and asked her if a video tape from Australia was mailed to the UK for forensic identification of a truck at a petrol station including video evidence taken within that petrol station of the suspect.

After that I might get you in contact with a Chief Inspector in the Scottish Police (Grampian Region – homicide) or a senior forensic officer at Perth police who might be able to pass judgement on my qualifications as far as forensic evidence goes.

From the way you write it would seem to appear that retired law enforcement officers in the US are rude and insulting when communicating with members of the public. It only appears to confirm how they are depicted in US movies. Fortunately from own experience I know that is not the case and therefore have my doubts if your knowledge of police work is based on facts or derives from fiction movies. I will keep an open mind on that because I have no evidence that would confirm my suspicions.

From my avatar, deductive reasoning might have told you that I am not 'ms ThaiUser' and that I am certainly not 'farang' as you concluded but female and Thai. The picture actually is a picture of me because I have nothing to hide your avatar on the other hand seems to display your fantasies and how you would like people to see you. Your advice to try deductive reasoning is somewhat displaced since I have done it for a long time and it has been confirmed that I am capable of working along that line.

Here a comment on some work I did regarding another field of science and the comment I received from a ‘farang’ when challenging a view that has prevailed for the last 70 years. Unfortunately I am off to Scotland for a few months in two days and my conclusions will be published online this week. I would have liked to come to Bangkok to discuss with you how deductive reasoning works.

I'm not complaining - it's very good. I can't see any weaknesses at all.

James H. Hamlyn-Harris Deputy Head, Computer Science and Software Engineering, Faculty of Information

& Communication Technologies at Swinburne University of Technology, Australia

I have a bit of trouble finding your qualifications in forensics.....forensic software ???

quote :

I left school in Thailand when I was fourteen years old to work in the fields and that is the only school certificate I hold.

But one thing I have never been satisfied with was the level of education I had and the knowledge I had gained. I also worked my entire life (not that I had to but I wanted too) and in the UK I started in a Thai restaurant kitchen as a junior chef working my way up to become a partner in that business. From my mid twenties I annoyed my husband to show me how to program computers (he is an IT consultant) and today I write my own software and if I am permitted to say so not without success.

Yes, I was a late starter in computer science as you can see from my comment. It took me actually about 6 to 7 years before I wrote my first commercial software package based on image enhancement. It took another 3 years before that software was sold to government agencies in Scotland including universities.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened to me if I had the chances that most of the commentators here on the TV forum had when being children as far as education is concerned.

This week a paper will be published on the Internet concerning a mathematical problem that has been around for over 70 years and I agree that I came very late to learn about mathematics that includes college or university level. Still I have mastered that too. Fortunately the people at universities working in that field haven’t denied working with me because I was already 25 when I started to get introduced to subjects of science.

And before you point it out I haven't studied languages too, still I read and write French, Spanish and German too and not only Thai and English.

Does that disappoint you? Today I am a grandmother and still interested in learning new things with a son that works in computers and a daughter in law that is a medical doctor knowing that my grandson will not have to struggle the first 25 years before gaining an education and that he doesn’t have to ponder like me what could have been if given a chance as a child.

No I am not dissapointed, was just wondering about your forensic knowlegde..and a generally a bit surprised about some of your opinions.

In real life there is a huge difference between science and practical forensics carried out on a crime scene andI a had a bit of trouble connecting the work German Scientist to a suicide on Koh Tao, just from the practical point view.

When I ask question in regard to this suicide I do it from a point of practical experience from some 35 years in the business of handling various crimes, accidents etc..and I do work with scientist everyday so I know how they would view the scene both on scene and from behind a desk

If this man had been black and resided in the part of the US I grew up in I'd be just as suspicious as I am of this case. He may or may not have committed suicide. Anything that happens on KT is subject to much disbelief when it comes to so-called "investigations". There is a family there that will never be investigated. If I had ever let a crime scene become contaminated (purposely) like it was in the earlier murders I would have been fired in a heart beat. "As much as I like the opening sentences you make but the rest is nothing else as bashing the RTP and Thai pathologists. Trust me the majority of them do their job to their best of their abilities despite what is most of the time said on this forum." Trust you, surely you jest, what are you qualifications? You know some Thais, wow so do I and even the cops know they are crooked, give me a break. Well ms ThaiUser perhaps when you get some smarts, street and other wise, you will realize why so many on this forum do not believe in the abilities of the RTP or most of the pathologists, much less their honesty. Money talks, bulls**t walks and so do "investigations", DNA, autopsies and criminals. Many of us have been here over 10 yrs., some much longer and we still don't know all there is to know, still learning, but no farang ever will ever know all and that certainly includes you. But, deductive reasoning does work wonders. Try it sometime.

Trust me the majority of them do their job to their best of their abilities despite what is most of the time said on this forum." Trust you, surely you jest, what are you qualifications?

Peter Marco Falconio was a crime victim in Australia and the forensic case officer there was a female with the first name of Megan (Police Sergeant). Get in contact with her and asked her if a video tape from Australia was mailed to the UK for forensic identification of a truck at a petrol station including video evidence taken within that petrol station of the suspect.

After that I might get you in contact with a Chief Inspector in the Scottish Police (Grampian Region – homicide) or a senior forensic officer at Perth police who might be able to pass judgement on my qualifications as far as forensic evidence goes.

From the way you write it would seem to appear that retired law enforcement officers in the US are rude and insulting when communicating with members of the public. It only appears to confirm how they are depicted in US movies. Fortunately from own experience I know that is not the case and therefore have my doubts if your knowledge of police work is based on facts or derives from fiction movies. I will keep an open mind on that because I have no evidence that would confirm my suspicions.

From my avatar, deductive reasoning might have told you that I am not 'ms ThaiUser' and that I am certainly not 'farang' as you concluded but female and Thai. The picture actually is a picture of me because I have nothing to hide your avatar on the other hand seems to display your fantasies and how you would like people to see you. Your advice to try deductive reasoning is somewhat displaced since I have done it for a long time and it has been confirmed that I am capable of working along that line.

Here a comment on some work I did regarding another field of science and the comment I received from a ‘farang’ when challenging a view that has prevailed for the last 70 years. Unfortunately I am off to Scotland for a few months in two days and my conclusions will be published online this week. I would have liked to come to Bangkok to discuss with you how deductive reasoning works.

I'm not complaining - it's very good. I can't see any weaknesses at all.

James H. Hamlyn-Harris Deputy Head, Computer Science and Software Engineering, Faculty of Information

& Communication Technologies at Swinburne University of Technology, Australia

I have a bit of trouble finding your qualifications in forensics.....forensic software ???

quote :

I left school in Thailand when I was fourteen years old to work in the fields and that is the only school certificate I hold.

But one thing I have never been satisfied with was the level of education I had and the knowledge I had gained. I also worked my entire life (not that I had to but I wanted too) and in the UK I started in a Thai restaurant kitchen as a junior chef working my way up to become a partner in that business. From my mid twenties I annoyed my husband to show me how to program computers (he is an IT consultant) and today I write my own software and if I am permitted to say so not without success.

NSFW but this piece of research is relevant: http://www.academia.edu/903627/Precautions_Taken_to_Avoid_Abandoning_the_Act_of_Hanging_and_Reducing_Pain_in_Suicidal_Hanging_Cases

Well read it carefully and you will notice that there is only 2 cases in the study , 1 case where the hand were found tied "limply" behind the victims back and 1 case where it was tied on the waist/side with clothesline figure 3 case 5.

None of the cases in the study resembles the bindings from Koh Tao, not saying it could not be a suicide, but a decent investigation should have been made before it was concluded.

What I find interesting is the noose used..not any typical sliding knot or hangmans noose ....but a very wide opened noose, that I find used in many suicides in Thailand, It is not the typical suicide noose used, well I have never encountered it and I have seen a few ( slip knot, hangmansnoose, sliding knot..etc..) however search the net and you will find the open noose regulary used for suicides in Thailand...

His hands were 'loosely' bound, apparently.....???

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Frenchman-found-hung-in-Koh-Tao-foul-play-suspecte-30251171.html

I guess the Journalist did not see the pictures

So much for social media, be it Thai Visa, CSILA or whatever... at least cases like this come out in the open

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Frenchman-found-hung-in-Koh-Tao-foul-play-suspecte-30251171.html

You are talking in circles --- now you are adding a bunch of qualifications of why they wouldn't cut this person down (if known dead) but then go on to say a cop can't make that judgement call bringing us back to the comment I called you out on that you are tring to defend which was

"I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried.."

Which of course you are completely 100% wrong about and not the way it is done in a civilized country where we ALWAYS want pictures of the deceased hanging along with other evidence that cannot be got if the cop cuts down a dead body.

If you made a mistake in your wording so be it but if you are trying to stand by your words, they are not correct and not the way a proper suicide is investigated. And there is absolutely nothing you can have determined from the photos that would indicate the police should have thought the corpse was alive or that would have trumped those on the scene able to confirm the victim was already deceased for what appeared to be hours.

Edit: Found something for you at http://dmmoyle.com/simeans.htm

When the investigator is first called to the scene, he should first advise those at the scene to not cut the body down unless there is a chance of resuscitating the victim. There is no chance unless the victim was found within four minutes of hanging. Before cutting the body down, first take pictures.

** DISCLAIMER- these were written for police officers, and assume that the reader has experience and training in evidence and procedural matters as a basis within which to interpret the material. Non-professionals may occasionally find these manuals misleading or confusing.... please use them in that context.

learn to read a full sentence....unless there is a chance of resuscitating the victim

Another poster provided a link to a research paper, albeit with rather graphic images, so I won't repost.

However, an extract from the conclusion of Precautions Taken to Avoid Abandoning the Act of Hanging and Reducing Pain in Suicidal Hanging Cases, The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology, Volume 30, Number 1, March 2009.

In our study it was observed that in 5 (29.4%) of the 17 cases the hands were either limply or tightly fastened together in front or behind the body. At first glance, a hanging body found with their hands tied together would give the impression of a homicide. However, an investigation of the death scene, such as in our first case showed that the victim had tied up his own hands; 1 end of the cable was in 1 palm and the other end was free, showing bite marks on it. In the same case, a piece of paper had been placed against the hanging ligature and the victim had left a suicide note. In the second case, the hands were tied around the thigh and waist to prevent the hands from rising up. In the third case, both hands had been tied behind the body with a simple knot. Also, along with a suicide note, the door had been locked from inside, meaning anybody trying to enter the room would have to break the lock. In the fourth case, there was a suicide note left at the death scene and both hands had been fastened limply behind the back. In the fifth case, beside the presence of a suicide note, the hands had been tied behind the back and a plastic bag had been used to close the mouth. In all 5 cases, the knots over the hands had apparently been secured by the victims and based upon the autopsy findings and inquiry data, it was determined that the hangings were suicidal. Each victim was thought to have tied both their hands together to prevent any change of mind.

The keywords is how the knot is tied, above is mentioned simple knot, fastened limply in the tying of hands...if I compare this to the pictures of the current case, that knot is extremely tight into the skin and is not above the hands/thumbs as usually seen in these cases....Off course it can be a suicide, but anything else would have to have been ruled out before that conclusion is made

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

A member who joined on the day the news of the Hannah and David broke and who referes to CSI LA as credible investigators .

Hmmm.

Where do you find a reference to CSILA as credible investigator ? It is a facebook group as far as I know..but with some followers and a source to get the word out.... Now go join your friends in the apologist club

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

While CSILA detectives may say different, the reality is you don't cut down the body until investigators have examined and photographed the scene. There is no reason to to give CPR to a corpse and it was obvious the were dealing with a corpse. In civilized (modern) countries officers are trained to know not to cut down a body but in less developed countries it is more common for an officer to cut down a body and worse cut the rope in an incorrect location damaging the investigation.

What CSILA whatever say do not interest me, definition of a corpse is well defined, any trained professional see what I see on those pictures, also procedures in handling of hangings differ from your imagination, from your statements I concur that you really do not have a clue what you are talking about..so lets just leave it at that... go on defending you interest