oevna

I would start worry by about Wednesday or Thursday of this week, by that point most of the Thais that travelled home will be back at work and your likely to get an innocent explanation.......basically it will a waste of a good worry ( I hope ).

Thank you. I hope so too. I just fear that if something is wrong, then time is of the essence, and waiting around just makes me worry more.

If she is on FB or similar maybe ask some of her friends

She is not on FB that I am aware of, although I did search to see if she recently joined.

Thanks.

i wouldn't worry too much, she has probaly just found herself a boyfriend

If she has found a boyfriend, then I would be happy for her!

Care is needed here. 9 times out of 10 people turn the phone off because they do not want to be contacted for whatever reason.

The last thing they may want is a search party

Agreed. I wouldn't normally be concerned except that the absence has been as long as it has. I don't want to make a bigger deal out of it than is necessary. It is probably premature to contact the police at this point, but that is a good suggestion and I will keep it in mind if I don't hear from her for a week or so longer.

Thanks.

Hi ThaiVisa forum members,

First of all, Happy New Year. I hope that you and your family have had a safe and enjoyable holiday season.

About five days ago a friend's mobile phone went dead (it never rings, I just get the "sorry, the number you have dialed can not be reached at this time; please call back later" message). She was on a road trip to Chiang Mai with family members this past week, and was en route back home to Buriram when I last spoke with her five days ago.

I don't usually think anything of it when this happens, because it usually means that someone forgot a phone charger, or their phone went missing, and I eventually hear from them when they get home. But it has been a while and I was expecting to hear from her a few days ago. She would normally try using a relative's phone to notify me that she can't be reached. I am starting to get worried, as there are nothing but articles in the news about the "seven dangerous days," with all the road accidents, injuries and deaths.

I'm probably overreacting, but just to be on the safe side, does anyone know the best way to search for people by name who have been admitted to hospitals, short of calling every hospital between Chiang Mai and Buriram? I have tried searching Google for news stories containing her full name (in Thai and English language), but nothing has turned up. I suppose that should at least be some consolation. However, none of the articles are listing the names of all who have been affected in the accidents reported, most likely because of the large numbers, so that may not mean much.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S. It also occurs to me that this might just be a result of over-burdened mobile phone networks during the holidays, but I have never seen it last this long.

Thai policeman kills six fellow officers

BANGKOK, December 27, 2011 (AFP) - A policeman in southern Thailand shot dead six fellow officers before turning the gun on himself after a drinking session in a police canteen turned sour, local police said Tuesday.

Alcohol is served at a police canteen? Astounding.

All languages are roughly equal at expressing the types of complex thoughts that are common to all of humanity (inerpersonal relationships, direct experience of the physical world, sensory perception, etc.). Not all languages have 100% overlap with other languages in the area of technical vocabulary. So if a language lacks the vocabulary to discuss certain technical subjects, then people have to use descriptive language. However, much technical vocabulary actually exists in Thai. When someone doesn't know the correct vocabulary, even if it exists, they will also have to resort to descriptive language.

I see this occasionally in my field of work, which is computer software. My mother (who is a medical doctor and is very well-educated and intelligent) will sometimes have questions for me about issues she is having with software, but she does not have the vocabulary to express her thoughts succinctly, so she will stumble about using descriptive language. Eventually we will get to the heart of the matter, and I'll understand what she's asking.

So, if your experiences reflect reality, what most of us are seeing in normal day-to-day with Thais is likely that the average level of education here is perhaps lower than is ours. This would make sense as most Thais or foreigners are not frequently discussing very complex topics, say, while ordering a som tom for lunch. It reflects the news papers and media which almost all communicate in super basic, low level Thai as reported to me by my wife (Thai native, under grad and grad in US and Ivy league) ...

Thanks for the reply

How is conversation with your wife, who is well-educated? How does it compare with conversations with less educated Thais?

Also, just to make sure we're comparing apples to apples, are you talking about your observations of Thais speaking Thai together? If so, are you fluent in Thai? If they are speaking English, could you do better holding an equally technical conversation in Thai?

Just some things to think about. Also, since you seem to have a genuine interest in the subject, you might enjoy a book called The Language Instinct, by Steven Pinker. Also a good read is The Power of Babel, by John McWhorter. Fascinating stuff!

All languages are roughly equal at expressing the types of complex thoughts about common human experience (interpersonal relationships, direct experience of the physical world, sensory perception, etc.). Not all languages have 100% overlap with other languages in the area of technical vocabulary. So if a language lacks the vocabulary to discuss certain technical subjects, then people have to use descriptive language. However, much technical vocabulary actually exists in Thai. When someone doesn't know the correct vocabulary, even if it exists, they will also have to resort to descriptive language.

I see this occasionally in my field of work, which is computer software. My mother (who is a medical doctor and is very well-educated and intelligent) will sometimes have questions for me about issues she is having with software, but she does not have the vocabulary to express her thoughts succinctly, so she will stumble about using descriptive language. Eventually we will get to the heart of the matter, and I'll understand what she's asking.

The Thai language lacks precision, in fact where this is needed they often borrow English words, but with a Thai accent.

Except in simple matters Thais often cannot seem to understand each other, "say again" is probably one of the most common responses in a Thai conversation.

English has multiple redundancy in its usage; inverted, upside down, head over heels, arse over tit, topsy turvy, turned over, flipped, are all related concepts yet with subtle differences, try to explain this to a Thai

As others have already said, before Thais can learn a second language they need to sort their own out first. Particularly their abominable script.

This has not been my experience, as a native English speaker who has learned to speak, read and write Thai. Thai is as precise as English. Its script is actually much more precise than the English use of the Roman script. As you pointed out, it lacks much of the grammatical redundancy of English (and other inflected languages). The same could be said about Chinese. That's not the same as being imprecise.

Also, there are formal versions of most of the English loan words that you are referring to. They are usually borrowed from Sanskrit, Pali or Khmer, much the way English has borrowed from French, Latin and Greek for most of its higher vocabulary. All languages that borrow words from other languages impose their phonetics on the loan words, including English. Most of the foreign words that English has borrowed are pronounced using English phonetics (for example, the final "i" in the word "alumni" is not pronounced like the English word "eye" in its original Latin pronunciation; it is pronounced closer to "a-loom-nee"). Even a word like rendezvous, which we attempt to pronounce faithfully to its French origin, is not pronounced by English speakers exactly the way the French would say it.

The issue you are referring to is most likely due to several factors, the biggest of which are the very large grammatical and phonetic differences between Thai and English, combined with the fact that most Thais don't have many opportunities to practice speaking English with fluent speakers.

Consider the way many Western expats butcher the Thai language (some of whom have been living in Thailand for many years) when they are forced to try to communicate in Thai.

EDIT -- I see that by "redundancy" you were not referring to grammatical redundancy, which would have actually been a very insightful observation. But alas, you were making the bold statement that Thai lacks folksy idioms for expressing thoughts in subtly different ways. You are sorely mistaken! Just because the expression "arse over tit" wouldn't translate well into Thai doesn't mean that they don't have plenty of expressions for similar concepts, most of which wouldn't translate well into English. They are different languages. Unless you are fluent in both, of course you will be biased towards your mother tongue.

Good stuff but it's only stating the obvious.

Many people have said exactly the same thing for years but are just ignored, so I can't see this lady having any more luck.

Simple facts are that speaking English is far more valid than reading and writing it (although I agree best to do both) and you do not use grammar when you speak. The obsession with teaching grammar "first and foremost" is a travesty really. We know why they do it, becasue the teachers can teach it from books in rote style which means they can get away with limited ability themselves.

You cannot teach spoken English if the teachers cannot speak it themselves. The alternative of "native speaking" teachers is not an option in the places it is needed most i.e. government schools, probably in the sticks due to the financial restraints. In 14 years i have never met ONE Thai teacher fully proficient to be teaching English as a spoken language.

In general I agree with your statements, except for one of them: you certainly do use grammar when you speak.

I think you are confusing grammar with formal written language. Written language differs from spoken language in that it needs to be more precise, because it lacks the context of the situation that fills in what is left out in spoken language.

An example of grammar in spoken language can be seen in a sentence as simple as "I am going to him." I realize that this is "written" here in my reply, but bear with me and imagine yourself speaking this sentence.

Now if you said "he is going to me," it would have a very different meaning, but the two sentences contain the same words. The difference between them is the grammar.

• I, me (first person singular pronoun, differing by case)
  
• am, is (both forms of the verb "to be" used as an auxiliary verb)
  
• going (present continuous form of the verb "to go")
  
• to (preposition)
  
• him, he (third person singular masculine pronoun, also differing by case, just like "I" and "me")
  

And of course the word order is different, switching "me" with "he." Native English speakers do all of this unconsciously when we speak, and much more, but it is still grammar. You can tell when someone gets it wrong, such as saying "him nice guy" (getting the case of the pronoun wrong, leaving out auxiliary verbs and articles, etc.). This is a common sort of mistake that I have heard in Thailand. It occurs because Thai language lacks true articles, and lacks case and auxiliary verbs, among other things (but has grammatical features that English lacks, such as classifiers).

This was one of the biggest stumbling blocks of my former students in Thailand, and getting it right only comes with practice, so that it just sounds right. Some manage to memorize the rules, but I find them often misspeaking and then correcting themselves, because they are still not quite fluent, so they are mentally translating from Thai to English when they speak.

"Language classes must focus on content relevant to learners' daily lives. The content must be practical," she said.

This is so true, and at the risk of sounding crass, the proof is in the bars in the major tourist areas.

The average Thai bar girl speaks passable English much better than other Thais in almost any other sector of the population that I have met, because the content of their conversations with their customers is relevant to their daily lives, and they use it almost every day. I wouldn't expect them to be able to recite Shakespeare, and I have certainly met upper-class Thais with much higher English fluency and literacy, but in my experience they are rare.

The more universities there are, the more it motivates them to excel, because they have to compete for students. One measure of the success of a university is the success of its graduates, which increases enrollment, and thus revenue. I fear that removing this competition by consolidating the universities will lead towards mediocrity, for the universities, for the students, and for the country as a whole.

Of course it's more complex than this simple equation, and there are negative side effects to this type of competitiveness as well, but I think on balance, more universities would benefit the Thai people, rather than fewer.

Then again, there may be other motivations at play here than just the good of the Thai people. I'm always skeptical of governments when they create this sort of arbitrary limit. It reeks of cronyism.

Pity? He committed murder! I understand the injustice that he faced from his wife and employee, but that doesn't justify killing.

That said, don't lose too much sleep worrying about Mr. Hua's well being. With the kind of money he likely has, the "investigation" will simply come up empty-handed and he will never be heard from again.

With Bangkok making up around 40% of the GDP of Thailand, it's understandable they're trying to protect it. The damage is already done in the surrounding areas, does it really have to get even worse? It's terrible for the locals who are now up to their waste in water, but forcing more of Bangkok to flood will not lessen their damage, and will cripple the Thai economy even further.

Besides that, it's pretty insane that the government is allowing local people to affect their plans so much. Normally if people would forcibly try to do major damage to a major city like Bangkok they'd be branded terrorists.... Someone needs to take charge and look at the bigger picture, then enforce the plan for the greater good of the country. If the local police can't handle it, have the army protect the sluice gates and dams....

The problem is, nobody has any confidence that the government can provide this sort of leadership. Who can blame them, given the way the government has communicated with the people throughout this disaster.

I hope they release them all soon so I can get that money the all have for me. I was wondering why I had not been getting as many emails lately.

Or, better yet, here do we send the money to spring them so they can send us all that money?

Ah, the Nigerian prisoner scam. A new twist on an old classic.

Welcome to the 21st century...

You're welcome to the 21st century. As far as entertainment is concerned, I prefer the good old days when such divas as Ella Fitzgerald, Dakota Staton, Shirley Bassey, Eartha Kitt, and Aretha Franklin enthralled with their talent and artistry without taking their clothes off. It seems to me that most of the contemporary music could be labelled as 'music to burn missionaries by' and the talents of those performing, certainly of Thai singers, measured by the level of volume output.

My thoughts after watching the video? Tasteless rubbish and a prime example of the young being young - and stupid, but then my father never understood modern jazz. or the swinging big bands of my youth.

So I guess Mae West was just ahead of her time.

Though Brits don't recognize 'alcohol poisoning' as a medical condition, as it's so prevalent in their culture, indeed in most cultures, including Thailand's. 'Can't see the forest for the trees' - fits the scenario.

Can't speak to your first question, as I'm not British, but...

Sorry to hear the kid died, but maybe it's a wake-up call to Brits and Thais and others who drink too much, that alcohol kills. Meanwhile, hemp (which is harmless) is classified as a Class 5 illegal drug and can land you in jail (in the US and Thailand), yet 40% alcohol moonshine is sold in every mom and pop shop in Thailand.

Really ??

... regarding the availability of strong moonshine: yes, it is readily available. The bottle in the attached images was purchased at a small liquor store, although I can't recall if it was a chain or a mom 'n pop shop.

The blue and red label on the bottle in the pictures attached reads "Suraa 40 Degree" (40 degree liquor) across the top, and the paper seal over the bottle cap says "40 degrees, 0.625 liters" in Thai. According to my <sarcasm>extensive research on the subject</sarcasm> (read: casual Google searching), "degree" in Thai means percent alcohol by volume, in the context of liquor (as opposed to alcohol proof).

That is, assuming you can trust the labeling on liquor bottles in Thailand...

The article is spot on.

Travelling by BTS is becoming more and more of nightmare and why they do not add more cars is beyond me. It can't be that much more expensive to run a train with 4 instead of 3 cars - a bit more maintenance cost but that should be about all.

Same reason you hear about boats capsizing that are way over maximum occupancy. The operators are not losing any money by packing more passengers on; they only stand to gain more money in ticket sales. Running more boats (or trains) would only be extra overhead for them.

I think you may well be right. He'll argue his human rights will be violated in a Thai prison because he won't be allowed his color tv, xbox and mobile 'phone !!

That would be tragic, but at least it would force the Thai judicial system to face the fact that the rest of the developed world does not take them seriously. Hopefully the loss of face will motivate them to clean up their act, if they ever want to sit at the adults' table. I'm not holding my breath though.

Does the UK have the death penalty? If so, than all 3 countries have the death penalty. This cowardly murder should warrant death, regardless where it occurred. Next time you got your arrogant butt kick by a combat hardened US Marine, and as embarrassing as it may be, just go home.

The UK does not have the death penalty, and will not extradite its citizens to a country that does, unless the prosecution in that country promises not to seek the death penalty. That is why the Thai prosecutors are not seeking it.

I think that TAT needs a farang advisor. First off the word miracle is in essence a religious term, and it is absurd to use it in an advertising campaign. Second of all, I think the 8 billion baht would be better spent to stop scams, that would yield them much better results in the long term....

Thirdly, shouldn't it be Miraculous Thailand? I mean, it is being used as an adjective here. They should probably use the adjective form of the word. Or maybe they are going for cute-sounding Thaiglish...

Not to mention that Thais will have a hard time pronouncing the word "miracle" given that Thai doesn't have a final "L" sound. The Thai letter equivalent to "L" is pronounced like an "N" when it is final, as in the way Thais pronounce the word "central" in "Central Plaza" (i.e. "sen-TRAN pla-SAA"). They would pronounce "miracle" like "mi-ra-KAN" if it is transliterated the same way that "central" is.

Even "miraculous" has this problem, as the Thai letters equivalent to the letter "S" are pronounced like a "T" when final. Think the Thai word for bus, "rot-bat", where "bat" is the word "bus" transliterally (don't get me started on the vowels).

I don't know what percentage of the overall Thai population this represents, but most Thai farmers that I know rent their land because they either lost it due to debt, or sold it to buy something big in the past. They must pay the rent on their land, and in addition to that, they often don't have enough people to work the land that they rent, so they hire temporary workers to help. They are pinched by all of these expenses with very thin margins, so they pay the hired workers a very low wage.

I have also seen a most unusual case where a friend's older brother (who is also older than me) married a girl who is younger than both my friend and me. My friend refers to her younger sister-in-law as พี่ (phîi), and corrected me, telling me to do the same.

I have a feeling this is not common, and may only still exist in the countryside. Still, just when I thought I had all the familial relationship stuff down, they throw me a ringer.

cool, thanks for that.

Im a bit confused by the older sibling, younger sibling thing. What if my brother is actually younger than me but you have put older sibling???

Does this work?

พ่อ แม่ น้องชาย น้องสาว

It depends. Obviously if you are referring to your actual brother or sister individually, you would specify them based on their actual age relative to yours (so พี่สาว for your older sister and น้องชาย for your younger brother, etc.).

What people are explaining here is that พี่น้อง as a compound word is a generic term used to refer to your group of siblings as a whole, elders and youngers, so to speak.

Actually I have to say that many of the posts I see compare LOS quite favourably with life in the UK, US, EU etc and its the reason why many people choose to live in LOS. The other thrust of your post seems to be that we should be comparing Thailand with Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam etc, but in that case you would be comparing Thailand with less developed countries so that's alright then ?

Agreed. It just depends on what you're looking for. If you need modern convenience and all of the comforts of home, then why leave home?