Longstaff

25 minutes ago, VYCM said:

fear must of been a factor to it. and he was just a kid.

- Mate, id be sh!tting myself too if the cops were chasing me, doesn't make it right for the kid to do a runner.

 

gravity of the offence must be a factor, again. the chase itself was the most public-endangering act in the whole event. 

- yes, this event that was the kids decision, if he had of stopped he would still be alive.

 

disputable statement

- mate, go for a drive down the Sukhumvit just after school closing time, lots of kids on bikes, no helmets, 2, 3, 4 on a bike, they never get pulled, I have seen this many times over and over. 

A good example is the checkpoint outside Na Jomtien, heading north after the Ambassador Hotel, only the other day I was traveling alongside a woman with a child on a bike, kids ahead were allowed through while myself and the lady got pulled asked for our licence.

May i suggest you read the post above by KevinboyCM. The chance that this cop was acting in a well considered, planned and systematic way to eradicate some sort of unacceptable behaviour (not wearing a helmet / failing to stop) as part of an overall Thai Police initiative to consistently apply the law, is utterly ludicrous...and you confirm this in your last sentence above. Your reasoning is flawed. The kid wasn't wearing a helmet and failed to stop as thousands of people do every day and get away with it. It seems the cop randomly chose to pursue this lad, forgetting altogether about the safety of all involved and innocent bystanders, and this led to the tragic death of a teenager. Bad judgement call by a hot-headed cop who should have been able to foresee the potential outcome. There are multiple causes behind this incident (see my earlier post), including the boys stupidity, but one thing is almost certain....the boy would be alive today if the cop had not chased him; and the consequences of letting him go within the Thai context.....totally insignificant.

21 hours ago, Longstaff said:

Did you bother to read the original post?

"He was chased because he was not wearing a helmet and refused to stop."

21 hours ago, Media1 said:

And who cares. His a kid. Use your brains.

Media1, I think we are on the same team here, but I'm not sure you read my original post....

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

You are wrong. The cop chased him because he refused to stop at the control, an action that very often means that you have a reason more serious than no-helmet to not be checked by cops...

Did you bother to read the original post?

"He was chased because he was not wearing a helmet and refused to stop."

On 1/17/2018 at 5:18 PM, Hupaponics said:

Therefore you should know that it's the drivers responsibility to keep a safe distance to the vehicle in front.

If you don't, up to you as they say...

 

Did you bother to read all that I wrote? Please read again points 4, 5, and 6. 

Driving in Thailand is DANGEROUS. We know this because of the incredible number of people who die on the roads. Unlike the well ordered roads of many countries, here we are often faced with multiple unexpected hazards all within an instant, and highly unpredictable behaviour. It's far to simplistic to say 'maintain a safe distance' as if that alone is going to ensure you don't have an accident in Thailand (a country where, for example, overtaking on blind bends / summits, or head on into opposing traffic, is commonplace).

Goodness me! A lot of people up on pedestals on this one! 

Apportioning blame / responsibility is a risky business in itself, however there have been a number of similar cases in Thailand over the years. Here's my thinking:

1. Accidents of any sort simply should not happen at police checkpoints. They regularly occur in Thailand. The police MUST carry some responsibility for this. If there was an accident of this sort in many countries the police would come under very serious scrutiny.
2. It is a FACT that police in Thailand SOMETIMES literally leap out unexpectedly in front of traffic; its happened to me numerous times
3. Driving standards in Thailand are generally appalling, both technically and in terms of driver attitude and behaviour.
4. Maintaining a safe distance in Thailand inevitably means that another driver fills the gap, so you are constantly having to back off the gas, and consequently there are many occasions when your safe distance temporarily vanishes.
5. People pull out and change lanes without indication; or with indication but no care for other vehicles. Buses and trucks in particular often just indicate and go, causing multiple vehicle to take evasive action. 
6. A sudden change of direction of another vehicle as you are about to overtake it, negates any effort to maintain a safe distance.
7. Not a single traffic cone to be seen in the photo.
8. It's a dual carriageway, so traffic is likely to be moving at speed, so plenty of warning is required, and a very gradual squeezing of traffic into a single lane, ready for inspection. 
9. As a rural dual carriageway (which it appears to be), it's difficult to do a u-turn to evade the checkpoint, and easy to police with another car a kilometer back at the ready.
10. Bad bikers, like bad drivers, tend to stand out. Good ones are barely noticed.

I'm a big bike and little bike rider; have been for 40 years, in many countries. Bikes are much more vulnerable than cars. Riding in SE Asia is dangerous and requires a very prudent approach because drivers, the public, and road conditions are VERY unpredictable.

20 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

Plus they are just plain stupid.

 

If they get caught, there is a good chance they spend several years in jail.

When you think about it, is this worth spending so much jail-time for?

 

Would they walk out of jail after 5-10 years and look back and say to themselves: "well, i think it was worth it because the guy did spill gas on the bike"?

 

Unfortunately it all has to do with the effectiveness of the policeforce and the general level of education.

Both are seriously lacking in Thailand.

Sure, decent policing would help, but that's not what causes young thugs to behave like this....they do so because they feel inadequate and have fragile egos; so they need to show power to their friends whilst bolstering their self image...in other words an emotional intelligence somewhere between an infant and a hornet!

On 04/26/2017 at 0:50 PM, pookiki said:

A young woman arriving on her own from Brazil. Why didn't her 'friend' meet her at the airport or arrange for reliable transportation upon her arrival?

 

In the past several months, I have seen taxi drivers becoming much more aggressive in refusing fares and/or taking advantage of customers who don't know their way around Bangkok.

 

Women must be extra alert under the current circumstances.

While it's reasonable to expect people to take reasonable caution for their own safety, it should also be reasonable to expect that a registered taxi with a permit to operate at an international airport is 'reliable transportation'.

I think if every solo female passenger was met at the airport there'd be a bit of a congestion problem!

Do be careful not to suggest it was her own fault......

4 hours ago, Psimbo said:

15 and younger to and from school racing bikes every day but teachers, police and parents do nothing. A complete waste of life and it's a disgrace.

 

The bus driver pulled out in front of them. Nothing here to suggest they were speeding, though on a motorcycle you need to drive very defensively here.....and that's because Thai's and Farang's alike often show no regard for motorcyclists, seemingly preferring to leave them to take care of themselves.

Licensing, helmets, underage riders, schools, police, parents, bus drivers....I agree. The root cause of this accident goes back a LOT further than a minibus pulling out in front of two kids on a scooter.

A tragic and unnecessary loss.

2 hours ago, 4737 Carlin said:

In civilized countries there are speed limits which are enforced. Many a***ole bikers in Pattaya seem to think they can ride as fast as they like and its upto pedestrians to jump out of the way. These lazy, arrogant p****s should try walking or using a baht bus. Too many bikes in Pattaya already - tourists and expats should not be allowed to hire or buy motorcyles.

Here in Phuket there are many motorcyclists such as you describe. Now in the high season, young guys on overblown 300cc scooters are a menace. 

Agree with Nakhonandy, proper licensing (on the basis of TRAINING) is what's missing (and law enforcement).

Can't understand why you think licensed expats and tourists shouldn't be permitted to rent or own motorbikes? You reckon motorcycle ownership should be based on race? Or ethnicity? Or maybe religion? Is it like that in your country? No, its based on age and licencing.

5 hours ago, catinthehat said:

That's because you bought your job and never had  any training or testing at a police academy to become a duly recognized policeman. Some people just cannot resist the opportunity to open their mouth and remove all doubt as to their level  of intellectual challenge.

Plenty of people own guns and competently clean them. What she does is dis-assemble the firearm completely which is more than just cleaning after normal use. You can be a competent gun owner all your life and never dis-assemble your firearms (same as most car owners maintain their car but never dis-assemble the engine). Seems to me this chap and his daughter go beyond normal cleaning, and he has taught his daughter how to fully dis-assemble guns and do the sort of maintenance that most people don't do for themselves.

I imagine soldiers learn this sort of thing because they may be out in the field in an ongoing combat situation and need to keep their firearms fully operational independently. Cops rarely fire a round, are not groveling around in dirt all day, and consequently a simple clean of the chamber and barrel is perhaps all they need to know.....?

Like a lot of people, I went to school, did a part-time job, did sport, AND did my homework. Good on him for teaching her, good on her for helping her dad and taking an interest, and good on the cop for giving her a pat on the back. Not every youngster can do this, or has the opportunity, but many kids are taught skills by their parents.

Shame on you all who pour cold water on this.

PS....love the 12 gauge on stand-by in case of trouble....wonder if she can handle that too? 555

22 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Not in your life time , even if you are only a new born ...

People were probably still saying that the day before the French Revolution......

Among all the other dazzling incompetencies, the inability to save face during a scandal (when saving face it is a national pre-occupation) simply tops everything. 

Some say things will never change....I think it will take time, but they will change for sure as the middle class here becomes increasingly educated, well-traveled, politically savvy, and generally aware...

The car had already overtaken that bus, so the driver must have really hoofed it to try and make the lights. He was going way too fast and likely couldn't have made the gap whether the motorcyclist was there or not. Should have been done for reckless driving as well as running a red light....and the penalties should be many times more for a public service vehicle driver than for a regular motorist. Should be 'two strikes, and you're out forever' for these guys.

14 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

A traffic cop?

 

Traffic cops the world over stand on the road or in the middle of traffic ...& will employ various measures to stop traffic if they ignore police instructions to stop, including forcing evading vehicles to crash.

 

You must really hate the lollipop men outside schools?

 

A traffic cop standing in the middle of busy interaction will cause drivers to slow down, not sure how you arrive at the concept of traffic police being a dangerous distraction to motorists.

Like I said....fuzzy thinking....

Did you actually watch the video?

There's a significant difference between cops on point duty at an intersection, and cops or lollipop people controlling pedestrian crossings, and a cop running about in moving traffic in an unpredictable and random manner.

Cops, like all good motorists and motorcyclists, are trained to act in predictable ways. Unpredictable people anywhere on a highway are a menace, a distraction, and a cause of stress to others; that's one of the main reasons why the roads here are so dangerous, and why some people avoid driving.

And, seriously, have you actually seen a person on a motorcycle being forced to crash by police? Really? Maybe you've been watching too many movies? Cars, yes, normally using a controlled method involving more than one police car e.g. the 'moving block'. Good policing involves procedures that are designed to minimise risk and maintain control.

Note this:

' An overwhelming number of police pursuits are started over non-violent crimes and escalate quickly, endangering the suspect, the policeman, and any bystanders along the way. ' CBN News

There is a catalogue of examples of motorists being chased by police causing fatal accidents to other motorists and pedestrians. This is why good policing now AVOIDS chases.

3 schoolgirls on a scooter without helmets are not fleeing gangsters. The actions of this cop endangered all 3 girls, caused them to crash, and led to a head injury.....if the issue was about not wearing helmets, this cop completely defeated the purpose of the excercise! He put himself needlessly in harms way, he caused motorists to alter their course to avoid hitting him, he caused a motorcycle to crash, and through all of this he endangered the welfare of pedestrians. 

Modern police forces now utilise deployable tracking devices to catch vehicles later, rather than chasing them, because they recognise the risks involved in chases; or they use road spikes; or they give up because the risks are just too high and their dispatcher orders them to call off the chase.

There's some fuzzy thinking going on in some of the posts on this topic......

The cops are clearly incompetent. They are inadequately trained and unsupervised. What sort of cop goes running out among the traffic? No regard for his own safety let alone others. A menace. An unnecessary distraction to drivers on already dangerous roads.

Why have a road block? What is it trying to achieve? Lets get some focus.......Is it for checking helmet compliance? That's about SAFETY. Checking only 2 people per motorbike? That's about SAFETY. Checking driver licencing? Licences are about proof of age and competence to ride....and that's all about SAFETY. 

3 school girls on a motorbike! Not exactly 3 gangsters making a getaway from a heinous crime. Hardly a life or death situation......except that this cop turned it into a completely UNSAFE and HAZARDOUS situation by running out into the traffic. HIS ACTIONS CAUSED AN ACCIDENT.

Exactly what was he doing? What was his intention? What was the PURPOSE of the hopelessly unprofessional 'roadblock'?

When is a roadblock not a roadblock? When it doesn't block the traffic and force all vehicles to stop...SAFELY...like this one.

Instead of charging around unsafely in the traffic....why not pop along to the school and teach the kids how to ride safely? Give them a hand to pass their test. Teach them about the fragility of the brain and the consequences of head injury. THEN stand at the gate and make sure they're all helmeted and only 2 to a bike when they leave school.

AND, in many countries cops are very cautious about pursuits. This is because countless police pursuits have led to accidents and death to either the driver, other innocent car occupants (or pillion passengers), or Innocent members of the public....I can't think of anything more likely to lead to a tragedy in this situation than a cop giving chase to 3 girls on a scooter.

On 1/4/2017 at 1:01 PM, seancbk said:

 

 

Reference points 2 and 4.   

If I read your post correctly the company would only need to have 1 million in registered capital and this would not need to be proven as it would be opened by a Thai (point 2), then when I became a shareholder no proof of my capital would be needed (point 4)

I don't have anywhere near 2 million baht, but I could ask one of my Thai friends to assume 100% ownership in order to open the company then later on take control of the company (I do know I can only technically own 49%, but I've got wealthy Thai friends I trust who've said they'd hold shares on my behalf).

I wonder how long after the company has been formed they would allow a foreigner to become a shareholder?  Presumably immediately.

 

 

A Ltd Co needs a minimum number of shareholders (I think 3)

Share transfer can occur relatively quickly, as can a change to Director/s. I think sufficient time needs to elapse to allow shareholders to be informed and a resolution by them to be passed approving the changes. So, a week or so...Forms need to be filled in, in Thai, and fees paid for these changes at DBD.

A number of things come to mind reading through this debate:

While Thailand seems to be a very inward looking nation, I am constantly surprised by how little Thai people know about their own nation and its culture, history and geography (let alone about the world at large). Indeed, as a visitor here you could learn more about the origins of many traditions and rituals by reading Lonely Planet on the plane, than many Thai's seem to be able to explain. That said, i wouldn't be surprised if the same was true in many Christian nations if you asked young people the origins of Christmas and Easter.

'Americans go to war to learn geography'. America also appears to be quite inward looking, yet many people are apparently blissfully unaware of America's high ranking on many negative indicators and continue to maintain that the USA is the greatest country in the world.

"What's the EU anyway?" From a 60+ year old US citizen who is a friend of mine here, in the wake of the Brexit vote.

Ignorance about your own country; ignorance about the rest of the world...and what's probably worse, a lack of interest in either. Seems tragic when we are increasingly interconnected and as the world rapidly shrinks due to ease of travel and communication.

I think the big surprise in statistics like these (and i agree with others that the sample size is small), and the UN statistics about child poverty; is that countries we expect to rank highly sometimes don't, and vice versa.

For a number of years 'quick-cats' plied the notorious waters of Cook Straight between New Zealand's North and South Islands. These ships were plagued by bad weather cancellations, sick passengers, and massive overheads due to their thirsty engines (and environmental damage issues caused by their wake). Of course the smaller ferries suffered the most cancellations due to bad weather and went out of business quickly. Even the huge 98 meter wave piercing Incat 057 was apparently restricted to maximum 4 meter swells. On a good day the big cats were superb, a great way to travel; but in rough seas on a smaller cat, the constant pitching is very uncomfortable.

Obviously, and as others have stated, any vessel needs to be matched to the conditions, but ferries on routes throughout the world are cancelled due to bad weather, this is normal. Good on them for excercising caution, and an unfortunate start for this enterprise.

What's needed in all of this is some balance. Umbrellas in particular, and loungers, are a good thing in a world where there is heightened awareness and incidence of melanoma. Tourists looking for unspoiled tropical beaches need to avoid the hoards in a highly commercialised place like Phuket, though there are less developed beaches on the island. While there were issues (and I've experienced these myself) with beach vendors, they never the less provided a service sought by many. There's plenty of room on the big beaches like Patong and Karon for umbrellas and loungers and people selling food and beverages. and there's plenty of room on the island for some beaches to be totally natural; what is and was always required, is better management of this.

Ya gotta love the driver on the left of the picture! Proves it must be Phuket.

Of course, this is exactly what Phuket needs to end the reign of the mini-buses and coaches in their never ending procession from the airport to Patong and beyond.

I imagine a tram will bring little economic benefit though, in fact it will put dozens of mini-bus driver out of work....what it may do is improve safety, improve the driving environment, reduce pollution, reduce congestion, save building more and wider roads....all the reasons other countries are re-introducing them.

Incompatible with current road corridors unless a sky train like the BTS.

Two things come to mind for me...had these guys annoyed the local Thai boys at an earlier time? Or maybe encroached on their turf in some way? For sure farang 'gangs' and 'mafia' of whatever flavour, throwing their weight about, treating Thailand like they own it, have come up against the wrath of local groups with similar intentions....has this happened here I wonder?

Secondly...with regard to comments about fairness to farang here; the one motor vehicle accident I've had (in Chiang Mai), when I was hit in the rear nearside by a Thai lady turning into a main road from as small soi, had a favourable outcome. The lady blamed me for some completely illogical reason, but both Police and the insurance assessor were on my side. Eventually her hubby turned up (also Thai) and said he could see  she was a fault, and that was the end of it. Her insurance paid.

Its one thing to be controlled by predators, its another to be controlled by food availability. Populations of anything only tend to explode when there is an unusual abundance of food. What are 400 monitors living on? And therefore a population of what is going to explode if the monitor numbers are dramatically reduced? Or are people feeding them?

Load! Fire!......................Aim! Again.