Thakkar

I don't think there are any absolutes here and one can't say for sure that LJW's response was inappropriate. One has to consider that the response could have been as much about his relief and gratefulness for being helped out of a very sticky bind. In that specific situation, he went with his instincts and only those who know him well could know whether his instincts tend to be correct.

Joe Steels suggestion of handing a name card and offering unspecified future help seems like a good template till you consider that it might be a little too open-ended. I'd modify that by specifying an offer for dinner or something.

T

I'm not flamin' and it seems clear your a decent sort but I write this because I'd like to point out what i think sometimes happens to even decent folks with the best of intentions...

Why offer him money? Especially given he was driving a "fancy 4WD"? Do you think maybe your perception is a bit skewed? Even the title of the OP suggests somethig, given that you felt the need to specify that it was a Thai --but this giving money. Most Thais I know -- maybe all of them but ESPECIALLY the ones with money (even merely enough to drive a fancy 4WD) -- would be saddened and/or offended to be offered money for helping out.

Would you have offered someone that money in your own country or a Farang here? Really?

I don't agree at all. Thais would not at all be offended by being offered money for this. Whether they accept it or not as down to them. But to not offer something in the first place could be seen as ungrateful, that you don't respect what they have done to you, that you aren't "equal" if you were.

I agree it is different in the west. People are too embarassed to offer money to each other for such things....

I remember a couple of years ago a next-door neighbour offered to take my son around looking for a school, as we have just moved to the area. I said "fine, thanks very much" in my farang way. And she drove us to two schools in her nice car, and got my son into the second one. Again, I said thank-you very nicely and thought that was all that was required, thinking we had created some kind of "friendship" and I would naturally pay her back with a similar gesture whenever it was needed.

Then I wondered why the neighbour didn't want to talk to me any more. I asked my gf and she said it was because the neighbour was offended and called me "khii niaw" because I didn't offer to pay for the petrol for the visit to a couple of schools.

The neighbour had money, she had a very nice car and 6M baht home. And she was just a normal Thai, trying to do a favour for a neighbour. But as it turns out, she really expected something apart from "thanks" back in return. Even though I had never asked her for the favour, she offered it herself.

I guess every culture is different in stuff like that.

Speaking to the situation with your neighbor, I don't know why your neighbor reacted as you say. Perhaps it's just your perception and there's nothing to it. Your gf's explanation is just your gf's explanation.

In any case, my response would've been to present the neighbor with an nice ice cream cake (because, let's face it, who doesn't like ice cream cake?) or a decent bottle of wine. I've done favors for Thai neighbors and this has been their customary way of expressing thanks: Fruit baskets, snacks for the kids, and once, a box of fancy breakfast cereal.

Mrs. T always buys souvenirs on our trips to keep aside for presenting as small 'thank you' gestures as needed. Social interactions go smoothly with judicious greasing. It's not about money; it's about showing appreciation through thoughtful gestures. Even in the West, a simple 'thank you' is a bit of a cop-out; it stops the relationship in it's tracks and there is no progress.

T

I've always been curious, why do clairvoyant's need a phone?

I can understand the phone, but why do they need one with a ringer?

T

If there was a good clairvoyant around, I should think that she would have already found you.

Try concentrating harder.

T

This 90 reporting is a perennial beef I have.

I believe it is for most of us who have been here a while and at the same address. Makes sense if you move to report a new address. Mentioned to my boss that I had to go to immigration for my 90 address report. He gave me a puzzled look and asked why and agreed it doesn't make sense?

Guess an update on that 90 day report last Thursday. Arrived around 3:15, got a queue card - believe it was something like 575 and serving 570. Was out in about 10-15 minutes max.

Agree that the immigration office makes it as painless as possible, so no complaints there.

I was in there last Thursday,. Got there before 7 and number 14. As for that booking an appointment on line.........I did dpeak to someone that arrived at 0950 for his 10.00 appointment. He was seen at exactly 10.00 and was out 15 minutes later!!! There are only half a dozen slots available for online appointments every day so it is not going to be a cure all. If they dont want to spend money increasing the size of the building, car parks etc then how about a double shift. Start very early and end late, that would spread the customers out a bit.

They could be helped immensely if the stupid 90 day reporting was done away with and for say, retirees, give them a 5 year extension after 3 consecutive one year extensions. I can't get emotional with a system that is too paranoid to look at alternatives.

This 90 reporting is a perennial beef I have. Maybe there's a good reason for it, but I can't think of one. If they have to have it, then, for their own sakes, it would help to streamline it. They've gone some way in doing that by allowing reporting by post (which, btw makes a mockery of the whole idea of 'reporting', but, whatever). Perhaps they could make that a requirement so that everyone reports by post.

*My theory for this requirement is that they want to periodically remind us foreigners that we are just guests. No matter how good this might make Thai chauvinists feel, the effect is a net negative for the country. The periodic reminder of our guest status, I'm sure, causes many to invest less money here than they otherwise would, as well as investing less time and money in Thai language proficiency.

I need to get this 90-day bugbear off my chest every now and then. Thanks for the opportunity.

T

I assumed he meant he discounted 1000b (from the 2900) not paid her directly ?? No ??

The police up here seem far more straight, but a small fender bender isnt where the rubber meets the road so to speak.. Get some biz conflict with a connected thai and the thugs out and see how they back you up (a buddy and ex poster on here had his wife kidnapped at gun point drugged etc and 2 nakhon si tammart hitmen put out for him over a land deal.. Police advice ?? Dont go home) or more heavy outcomes, I was closely involved when a drunk thai rider killed my buddys 15 year old daughter and the police tried everything to lose evidence and drop the case as soon as the guy was on the plane out of here.

Yes you meet good ones.. But in general to be a policeman in Thailand you HAVE to be corrupt, its the nature of promotions and how the system works. The best thing is to have as little to do with them as possible IMO.

Yes, sorry if it was not clear, I discounted it, she gave me 1900 Baht

Now that you've clarified, I commend your actions and hope to use your example to show my kids how every day events, even those that start off badly, can be turned into positive human interactions.

BTW, in you browser, under Safari (or Firefox or any other browse) ->preferences ->appearance you can permanently set a minimum font size. Fonts in all web pages will be clearer.

T

Bit early in the morning for you mca

It was a case at about 4 am of a semi-conscious half awake thought consisting of " I wonder if this is a fart coming or something more solid? " after an evening meal of larb goy.

I chose not to risk it and trundled off to the bog.

One of my more sensible decisions considering the outcome.

I've been reading this at the breakfast table on my iPad while my teenagers wax lyrical on similar toilet humor in an effort to gross me out while I eat. I showed them this comment as a lesson in (relative) subtlety. You are their new hero.

T

She crashed into and damaged your properly-parked bike and you paid *her*?

It is *she* who should be posting the feel-good story, not you.

It would have been generous enough of you to decline any compensation from her. That's where I would have stopped. Paying her for her mistake is putting a big "sucker" sign on all the rest of us foreigners here.

T

I was wondering how this thread would turn out, but also wanted to state my case.

I didn't back off, was not aggressive. and didnt get shot down (yet)

I dont understand why people think its OK to behave like that, just because it's not their home country.

Maybe they dont care for anyone

You seem to have missed the point. I would think that everyone here exhibited some care for you. No one defended the pick-up driver's behaviour of turning out of a soi without pausing. That was dangerous for on-coming cyclists like yourself. Equally dangerous was your unwise pursuing of the incident in the way that you did, because it could have got you just as easily killed. Most of the good advice has been to let it go and just be extra careful out there.

You should be gratified by the level of sympathy you've received.

T

Across the road from Nakornpayap International school, close to the river's edge, there's a row of new 3-story townhouses. The last house has a sign outside offering the place for rent at 8k.

The area is a little too quite for my liking. If you like, I can copy down the phone number when I pass by again on Monday.

T

Agreed, paying the monk to help win a lottery is stupid. I try to cut out the middle man and appeal directly to Buddha to orchestrate a win. Meanwhile I also double my chances by using the money not paid to the monk to buy two tickets instead of one.

But consider this. Bearing in mind the infinitesimally small chance of winning the lottery in a given lifetime, aren't I, and hundreds of millions of others, including many in the developed world, stupid to buy a lottery ticket in the first place?

Of course, there are levels of stupidity. Paying a monk to bless one's ticket takes stupidity to a sublime (not subliminal) level. However a poor person unable to see their way out of poverty except by a lottery win is actually behaving rationally by buying a lottery ticket. For an educated well-to-do person to buy a lottery ticket is rather less rational, though, granted, a much smaller proportion of their income may be wagered.

What of this notion that the great unwashed are oblivious to the consequences of their actions? This flaw is not confined to Thais, or the poor, or the uneducated. The majority of Californians voted for no tax increases while simultaneously voting for enhanced government services. We, all of us, continue to consume beyond the earth's ecological means.

One doesn't have to be a poor, uneducated third world bumpkin to be irrational.

T

She might be using the umbrella to protect the child from the sun. Not a good idea to drive like that, but it might not be because she's worried about getting a tan

I guess its our western values that make us mad to a certain extent ?

Without question with no warning you would have the child removed immediately if in the UK

If say in the UK, if all the "consequences" were removed from the equation, would the population of UK revert to similar behaviours, or would they do the "right thing".....

Is it a case of "our "western values" which make us "do the right thing" or is it a case of in the West there is a degree accountability/consequence for ones actions, which make us think twice before acting ?

Good question . Which makes me wonder whether the posters lamenting the "excessive" rules in Western "nanny states" are the same ones who complain loudly about Thai driving, construction quality and such.

T

If you see two people on a bike, without helmets and the driver on his cellphone and think: "That's crazy"—you haven't been here long enough.

If you see three on a bike, no helmets, driver on cellphone and a poodle in the basket and think: "looks like there's room for one more person"—you've been here too long.

I'm somewhere in the middle.

T

We sell over 100 portions of Fish, Chips and Garden Peas at The Olde Bell per month and the feedback is almost all very postive!

Of course, what else can the owner say?

To be fair, he did say "almost"

T

Oh, another vote for Kelly's at Mee Chok. Decent food al-round, but especially the Fish & Chips (by CM standards).

Let me get this straight:

He pulled out of a sidestreet right in front of me, so I drove up beside him-very close

I wanted him to be aware that someone was objecting to his driving without consideration for the lives of other road users

So he started it, but you then escalated.

Then, he saw your escalation and raised it:

Just had some fat middle aged well to do thai in a newish grey pickup try to push me off the road on my scooter several times.

He followed me then sandwiched me against the kerb, . The window came down and he hurled abuse at me.

You then backed off and came to this forum to complain:

car number 9504

Is there thread to post incidents such as this?

Can I find his name, address etc? Would like to name and shame him

Should I talk to the police, will they take it seriously? Or the tourist police?

In other words, you made a mountain out of a mole hill, then turned it back into a molehill. And the rest of us keyboard warriors/apologists/jokers/self-appointed experts/Jedi Masters have been clambering all over this molehill into its fifth page. Good times.

T

As this thread has already gone way off topic, I thought in the interests of balance it would only be fair to suggest why farangs in Thailand are such bad drivers....

• 100% of us (minus the missionaries) have our eyes glued to the rear-end of the honey on the motorbike, rather that truck in front that we’ve just rear-ended (the word ‘honey’ may be replaced with any other word that pleases your orientation)

This explains the many foreigners driving with only one hand on the steering wheel.

T

I dropped by a new multi-unit construction in Chang Phuack yesterday, and the boss lady proudly showed me her latest innovation: hammock anchors screwed into the concrete walls along either side of the front porch.

When you find your hammock, she's ready.

This sounds like a double entendre.

Anyway, I saw nice stand-alone hammock at Index Living Mall on the super highway. The hammock is displayed across from the Land and House Bank branch inside the store.

T

In the Seventies, during a period of fast growth, a formerly rural area of Hong Kong known as Yuen Long, rapidly urbanized within a few years. Highways, roads, street widening, massive housing estates and a light rail transit system were piled on one after the other. There was a spate of easily preventable accidents caused by bad driving, people failing to move out of the way and pedestrians crossing without looking, or crossing too slowly.

Turns out that driver/pedestrian education hadn't kept up with the overnight growth of what was becoming a whole new city. The original rural residents had simply been caught flat-footed and had failed to adjust.

The West urbanized at a much slower pace than the urbanization occurring in developing countries. There was considerably more time for people and systems to adjust. Sadly, governments rarely learn from the mistakes of past governments or from the experiences of governments elsewhere so that every developing country is more of less going through the same mill.

The erratic driving, flexible rules compliance and general confusion on the roads here can, I think, be explained by the fact that we have a lot of the accouterments of a modern city but with a public mindset and bureaucratic functionings of a generation ago; the software simply hasn't caught up with the hardware.

but ultimately Thais could be trained to drive more carefully and follow the rules if the bureaucrats

we are really interested in public safety ? If they can train Thai's to fly 747's and military aircraft

in accordance with international flight regulations and rules they could equally teach people which is the correct

side of the road on which to drive?

I hope I didn't come off as an apologist. Trying to understand why things are the way they are is not the same as making excuses for them. My point was that the situation is not some kind of proof of inherent Thai inferiority.

The sooner the software catches up with the hardware, the fewer innocent lives will be ruined, so it can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned.

A genuine effort to understand problems and following up with constructive criticism would, IMO, be more helpful than just showing disdain and putting on airs of Western superiority.

T

I've just had a cursory glance at this thread but I gather that it's a running diatribe against atrocious Thai driving.

Some thoughts I've posted on the CM forum on a similar topic may, I hope, contribute to the conversation on this thread:

In the Seventies, during a period of fast growth, a formerly rural area of Hong Kong known as Yuen Long, rapidly urbanized within a few years. Highways, roads, street widening, massive housing estates and a light rail transit system were piled on one after the other. There was a spate of easily preventable accidents caused by bad driving, people failing to move out of the way and pedestrians crossing without looking, or crossing too slowly.

Turns out that driver/pedestrian education hadn't kept up with the overnight growth of what was becoming a whole new city. The original rural residents had simply been caught flat-footed and had failed to adjust.

The West urbanized at a much slower pace than the urbanization occurring in developing countries. There was considerably more time for people and systems to adjust. Sadly, governments rarely learn from the mistakes of past governments or from the experiences of governments elsewhere so that every developing country is more of less going through the same mill.

The erratic driving, flexible rules compliance and general confusion on the roads here can, I think, be explained by the fact that we have a lot of the accouterments of a modern city but with a public mindset and bureaucratic functionings of a generation ago; the software simply hasn't caught up with the hardware.

T

Also:

You can whine and rant and proclaim your righteousness all you want, but you aren't going to change the way other people drive.

You can however, control how you react. So do the doable and, as Naboo says: 'Try harder to stay alive'

T

With experience some of us can claim to have seen it all before. In fact we've been there but made sure we didn't do that

Recently, to add grist to the Thai mill, a government minister said how he intended to remove ALL foreign owned property. All, because it all was illegally held. But those with a pecuniary interest on here don't want to acknowledge that as the property market would implode over night.

Furthermore, ask yourself why when the world is in recession Pattaya is throwing up more condos than Walking Street drunks throw up their dinner. Pattaya a micro thriving economy independent of the rest of the world OR a haven for money laundering. Some time relality bites.

Now let's consider that; reality. There is a clear intention amongst Thais with the clout to repossess all land and property illegally owned by foreigners. And foreigners do not live quietly up country. They take the prime land, in the prime areas, where Thais have missed the boat and the rich farangs simply sail theres.

Those of you who consider it possible to legally own anything other than your pants and vest in Thailand:

a] haven't been here long enough

b] have 'vested' interest.

Pun intended.

Now the fat Thai pigeon comes home to roost and another sod gets turned over. In this case substitute turkeys for pigeons.

It is not the Thai wife ................ oh, terrible woman, a bad 'un, unlucky etc etc.

It is a Thai system where lawyers will act dishonestly and the establishment is zenophobic and anti-foreigner. Indeed, it is unpatriotic to accept, welcome or encourage foreign anything.

I remember once attending a Pattaya expats forum meeting where a Thai lawyer was the 'expert' invited speaker. He proudly told how he could wriggle free from any legal agreement in favour of the client.

The room was silent in awe of the prospect of getting what they wanted. I then asked the question that if he could do such, then what about the next lawyer, and the one after that? Compounding this is the fact that the lawyers plea bargain, agree, compromise on outcomes, collect their fees regardless and move on.

The client loses as some one must.

And yet the yarn we asked to believe is that regulations could be wriggled out of. They can. But, if it happens one the one hand then it also happens on the other. Hence, what goes around ends up back in Thai hands and the foreigner is left as he came - only with the little he came with. If he's lucky. More often it is with an emptied bank balance.

Losers believe they can buy a company that has no employees, pays no taxes and holds no stock. Tell that to any tax collector. These virtual businesses have enabled foreigners to hold property and land illegally; no foreigner can own land.

The judgement day has been deferred for so long now and yet anyone sitting in a house they call their own is simply parking their backside on a bomb and expecting it not to explode - despite the ticking sound.

Let's be clear. The wealth invested in Thailand is far too attractive to the greed mentality of the corrupt Thai system. I can not understand why the mansions of Pattaya and Phuket have not been seized continuously over the years. The constant rebuttals and protestations that no such thing can / will / does happen simply serves to increase complacency and disbelief.

And yet those who purport that property and land is not being repossesed by the State also do not believe in gravity, a circular world or that a man actually walked on the moon. But fairies do exist.

Thailand is a place to visit and cherry pick. It is not a stable, reliable or profitable place to be. It remains third world and heaven only help you if you become ill or ever cross the Police. Then you will end up being the story on here. And there is no happy ending.

Focus on that.

There is no happy ending.

I bet you feel like lighting up a cigarette right about now.

T

In the Seventies and Eighties, during a period of fast growth, a formerly rural area of Hong Kong known as Yuen Long, rapidly urbanized within a few years. Highways, roads, street widening, massive housing estates and a light rail transit system were piled on one after the other. There was a spate of easily preventable accidents caused by bad driving, people failing to move out of the way and pedestrians crossing without looking, or crossing too slowly.

Turns out that driver/pedestrian education hadn't kept up with the overnight growth of what was becoming a whole new city. The original residents had simply been caught flat-footed and had failed to adjust.

The West urbanized at a much slower pace than the urbanization occurring in developing countries. There was considerably more time for people and systems to adjust. Sadly, governments rarely learn from the mistakes of past governments or from the experiences of governments elsewhere so that every developing country is more of less going through the same mill.

The erratic driving, flexible rules compliance and general confusion on the roads here can, I think, be explained by the fact that we have a lot of the accouterments of a modern city but with a public mindset and bureaucratic functionings of a generation ago; the software simply hasn't caught up with the hardware.

T

I believe some of these visitors you mention have a burning need to let all and sundry know how exotic are their life struggles, and what terrible plights they must suffer when in LOS.

I guess you could put it down to some sort of "Indianna Jones" syndrome......

risking life and limb at every turn, constantly at the mercy of the locals..whose very own lives revolve around causing as much grief and hinderance to the farang as possible.

Expat drama queens are still drama queens by nature..just they have got to find something different to carry on about.

And others who live boring, sedate lives pain for drama. They come to these forums and just make stuff up.

T

I pine for mundane tedium, which is why I make stuff up. My real life as a Special Forces member going commando under cover is top secret and I'm not allowed to mention it on here.

SC

I did not need to know that.

T

*Going Commando

Meanwhile, regards the OP's question...

it's the pussy.

But...but, The Temples! The Temples!

T

I believe some of these visitors you mention have a burning need to let all and sundry know how exotic are their life struggles, and what terrible plights they must suffer when in LOS.

I guess you could put it down to some sort of "Indianna Jones" syndrome......

risking life and limb at every turn, constantly at the mercy of the locals..whose very own lives revolve around causing as much grief and hinderance to the farang as possible.

Expat drama queens are still drama queens by nature..just they have got to find something different to carry on about.

And others who live boring, sedate lives pain for drama. They come to these forums and just make stuff up.

T

Some of the time I'm sure you're right. So many Westerners here are dishonest.

I'm with Thakkar though and am painfully honest.

When it comes to honesty, I say: give till it hurts.

So painfully honest is the way to go.

T