Bill Miller

Another factor to consider is age perception. I am 62, and my GF is 48. Not the greatest spread to be sure. Here is the thing, though; at 48 she is considered an "old lady". Many of the really spring/winter relationships involve young women who have already had a failed relationship with an ego boosted young Thai man, and are looking to better their lives on that basis.
I think it is not too far to suggest that Western men generally have a more appreciative view of women than Thai men. It is a Buddhist nation, and women are prohibited from even entering some of the more holy places because, as I was told, "they have blood". I am not making a judgement here, just noting that the ladies seem to have a harder time in some ways than Western gals.

Seems the crux is the notary public.

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/public-notary-in-thailand.html

However, Thailand has not yet enacted OFFICIALLY an Act of the Parliament for “Notary Public” which could make a problem. At the moment, it's only a regulation of the Thai Lawyer's council. For instance, if you need a document to be used in a Foreign Court of justice, and if the other party contest this document, they could win. They could plead that Thai Law does NOT recognize notarial services, which is true.

I use to have to do a lot of these, luckily, no more. Many times, the US won't accept a document notarized here. I have to go to the US embassy for this. And for good reason. One document I signed was OK to be notarized here. I gave the form to the "lawyer" and he stamped it. I hadn't even signed it yet! And he didn't even look at what the document was. Nor did he look at my ID. Something which is required by a notary in the US.

As for defamation, it doesn't have to be true for this lawyer to win. He just has to lose business. Sick law.

Nevertheless notarized documents are required for various immigration procedures. Hmmm.

I could be wrong, but I do not believe the US would entertain an extradition proceeding on the basis of what is normally considered a civil action in the US.
It depends of course on the terms of any treaty between the two nations.
The guarantors have already ponied up for the eight million, and I think I recall that the dentist had sent one smallish payment to them. They are the losers here, and of course possibly future students (and their patients) who may have greater difficulty finding benefactors.
Is there anything constructive in this suit besides ensuring she will never return to Thailand? It seems from a purely business stand point to be sending further money down the drain.

From Pattaya One:
"....one of the arrestees who does not wish to be named told Pattaya One that he was given verbal confirmation from the Police that the case will likely be dropped and the 5,000 Baht bail money each of the players paid will be returned."

I don't know how reliable this is, but it speaks to all the commentary from folks insinuating that this is a cash grab on the part of the authorities.

Just a guess, but I imagine the Contract Bridge Association lady is well connected and can bring considerable influence to bear.

"The offense relates to Section 8 of the Playing Cards Act of 1935 which states that an individual is not allowed to possess more than 120 playing cards at any one time. At the Bridge event, considerably more than 120 playing cards were found by officers."
Any half way decent attorney would point out that there was considerably more than one individual member present. The law stipulates that "an", IOW "one" , individual may possess 120 cards. There were what, thirty two individuals involved? Simple arithmetic indicates they would have to have in excess of 64 decks of cards on hand to violate that statute.

....since when is ..... finding....... an unmarked (?) envelope .......containing money.......considered theft.....???

Theft, in law, a general term covering a variety of specific types of stealing, including the crimes of larceny, robbery, and burglary.

Theft is defined as the physical removal of an object that is capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner and with the intention of depriving the owner of it permanently.

Since when have scholarship's been repaid? I thought the whole point was to allow someone to study who couldn't pay for it.

It was not a student loan.

If anyone read the article it also states the reason for it being 30m rather than the original was because they wanted 3 times the original amount of 8 million....So one of the top universities in Thailand wanted 3 x 8 million, they then asked for 30m.....One of the top universities in Thailand.

If you to read the article then you can see that the scholarship was granted with the clause that she would return and work at Mahidol university when finished and as she broke that clause she has to pay back the scholarship + interest and fees. Now the 4 guarantors had to pay back the money instead!

It's easy math actually. If you take 8,000,000 and then add the compound interest of 7% (same as US student loan including fees) over 22 years you end up with a debt over 30,000,000 Baht.

I do not know the particulars of the "contract". It seems erroneous to refer to it as a scholarship if repayment is expected. It should have been configured as a loan.

Certainly the doctor is at fault for leaving her guarantors dangling in the breeze. She could well afford to repay the entire original sum of 8,000,000tb, or roughly $225,000, on a US doctor's salary.

A one time payment of $50,000, as she has reportedly made, would seem to indicate that she could certainly manage that, at least.

Harvard is correct that they have no legal standing in the matter, but I wonder if petitions or letters would prompt them to quietly pressure her to make an ethical solution?

According to a number of references, this particular one from Wikipedia:

"A scholarship is an award of financial aid for a student to further their education. Scholarships are awarded based upon various criteria, which usually reflect the values and purposes of the donor or founder of the award. Scholarship money is not required to be repaid.^[1]"

^{This has always been my understanding of the term.}

Additional reports indicate that a stipulation of the scholarship was that the doctor should return and teach at Mahidol for a period of time.

This is not an unusual stipulation, and answers why there were guarantors involved. They saw it as an opportunity to bring some additional expertise into the Kingdom.

It would be interesting to know the details of the scholarship contract. Certainly the doctor could afford to repay the value of the original scholarship, and ethically should. The funds could be used for the next candidate, who might feel a shade more gratitude for the opportunity.

According to a number of references, this particular one from Wikipedia:

"A scholarship is an award of financial aid for a student to further their education. Scholarships are awarded based upon various criteria, which usually reflect the values and purposes of the donor or founder of the award. Scholarship money is not required to be repaid.^[1]"

^{This has always been my understanding of the term.}

Cold is actually a major attraction here in the North.

Yes! I actually enjoyed the forgotten pleasure of snuggling down beneath a couple of blankets during last weeks visit.

Recently went north with my girlfriend and her daughter for their annual vacation. Since her aged father and older sister live in Chiang Mai that is our obligatory starting point.
I stayed the first two nights in a hotel I had been at before, as we are not married and it would not be appropriate to share a room at the family farm had there been one available. Very much enjoyed visiting with Kuhn pah, pi sao, pi khoy, nephew, nieces, neighbours..... really need to work on my Thai language skills!
After a really great lunch at an organic farm restaurant we packed into a Suzuki Swift; my oversized self, Fon, her lovely daughter and two delightful nieces, and headed west.
The high points of the week, in addition to the wonderful company, were:
Exploring Chiang Dao cave- bit of a challenge for someone 114 kilos! Several interesting Buddhist shrines down under....
Spent most of a day at Shinga Park/Boon Rahd Farm...
Overnight stay at Huay Hon village.... fabulous coffee, mountain vistas, handicrafts featuring woolen textiles...2,100tb for accommodation and meals for six... oh yeah, we were joined by one of the niece's boyfriends... handsome young cop who is also an accomplished amateur guitarist.
Visited the provincial hospital in Chiang Rai where the nieces work.... they are both nurses... comforting to a diabetic/heart patient...anyway, picked up three vials of "R" insulin for less than 1/2 the cost of a single vial here in Bangkok. Helps to have an "in" with a nurse employee, I think.
Altogether a great trip. I highly recommend getting out with and amongst the Thai people, doing what they enjoy. I was amazed at some of the places we had lunch... the girls would drive to these little hole in the wall eateries, far from the town they live in, and we would have a wonderful meal!

I am happy to learn of this award.
The world can use every incentive to ensure better care of its inhabitants.
Now we need a few more that take some care for animals, and maybe something to encourage non lethal human population control.

You can apply for the 30 day extension and apply for the change during the same trip to immigration.

You can apply for the change to a non immigrant visa at Jomtien and they will send it to Bangkok for approval. If using money in the bank it does not have to be there for 60 days.

Hmm, a subject of ongoing confusion for me....

I have an extension to my tourist visa already. Do I understand correctly that, with necessary documentation, I can convert to a "Non "O"" for retirement purposes right here in Bangkok? I had been tentatively planning a trip to Laos next month to apply at the embassy, but if it can be done at Chaengwattana so much the better.

You can apply for it if you have 15 day remaining on the extension when you apply for it.

It will that two trips to immigration 15 days apart to get the visa/entry stamps.

If using the money in the bank option the bank letter must also state the funds came from abroad.

Thanks so much, Ubonjoe!

I had somehow gotten the idea I had to get the "O" visa outside of the kingdom....

I will need to make an appointment with the US Embassy right away to get my income letter.

BS stories. In America it's illegal to have that much cash, I don't believe this story one bit.

100,000tb is somewhat less than $3,000 US. I do not know what you are thinking, but it is by no means illegal to have cash in the US. I have had more than that in the chips tray at a craps table.

If you are carrying more than $10,000 in or out of the US you must declare it, but you are not prohibited from having any amount.

The BS is not in the story about a measly 100,000tb.

You can apply for the 30 day extension and apply for the change during the same trip to immigration.

You can apply for the change to a non immigrant visa at Jomtien and they will send it to Bangkok for approval. If using money in the bank it does not have to be there for 60 days.

Hmm, a subject of ongoing confusion for me....

I have an extension to my tourist visa already. Do I understand correctly that, with necessary documentation, I can convert to a "Non "O"" for retirement purposes right here in Bangkok? I had been tentatively planning a trip to Laos next month to apply at the embassy, but if it can be done at Chaengwattana so much the better.

Wow. Lots of cynicism expressed.
I think it is quite appropriate for the guy to be acknowledged and, yes, rewarded for right action.
I found I was missing my wallet yesterday with my one bank card, I.D., and a few thousand baht cash in it.... the month's rent, in fact.
Put on my "thinking cap" and could picture my wallet sitting on the ledge of a sidewalk coffee bar I frequent. Walked down to the place, and everybody's face lit up when they saw me coming.
Yes, they had found it and set it aside for me. Nothing missing and refusal of a reward.
I will as promised go to a wat and make wai for the folks in praise of their merit. Hey, their belief, and they really saved me from a jam of my own making.... they appreciated the gesture more than the offer of cash.
So yeah, I agree with Gsxrnz that it is noteworthy anywhere.
p.s., The onlookers were all smiles and nods of appreciation as well.... a real falang/Thai feel good encounter.

They're all lending - particularly if you have a decent credit profile. What you may find is that some of the banks have tightened their criteria for lower quality credits. They are particularly interested in your debt servicing ability (DSA) and debt to income ratio.

In terms of which might be most likely:

All the big 4 are in this space. SCB is probably most active, and if I recall the biggest mortgage lender.

Land and Houses Bank (LH) is particularly focused on home loans, although a smaller and newer bank. Sometimes a bit difficult to deal with for foreigners involved. Normally banks don't lend to foreigners (not just LH) for home loans, but if you're looking to guarantee a Thai partner's loan, compared to them doing it all themselves, it might be a factor

StanChart has a nice offset mortgage - mortgage one, which is very flexible and allows you to offset deposit balances vs mortgage loan in calculating interest. Again relatively new in this space over the last few years, and probably higher credit standards, but their mortgage book is one they look to build. We did ours through them a few years back

TMB also has intentions to significantly grow its home lending business in the next couple of years to diversify, so would likely be keen on new business.

At the low end, GH bank are offering mortgages to Thai low earners (think under THB 30k) up to THB 3mn under state sponsored schemes.

Hmm. Any info on the state sponsored schemes? My partner has agreed to purchase a house with me if we can, but she is limited to about a ten year amortization due to the sixty year age limit.

We are looking in Chiang Mai, in the 600,000 to 1.5 mil range.

There is an awful lot of misunderstanding and outright claptrap on the subject.
First of all, the idea of sin sod as a dowry is incorrect on the face of it. The dowry was an European convention where the bride's family
paid the groom, not vice versa. Some cultures today still have a tradition of a "bride price", which is much more nearly what the sin sod is.

You are not talking about a society which has a whole bunch of social safety nets here. The family has gone to a great deal of effort to bring up your beautiful girlfriend, and with next to no governmental or societal assistance. Particularly if she is a younger or only daughter she would traditionally be the care taker of the parents in old age. Thirdly the ability to plunk down some cash is indicative of your ability to care for and support your wife. It has also been suggested that it is backup for the woman in case things do not pan out after you have "ruined" her; a divorced woman still seemingly has a disadvantage vis a vis finding a replacement Thai husband.
Finally if you have come to Thailand in search of an exotic, beautiful wife, then you do not get to pick and choose the aspects of their culture you wish to follow. If she is not worth a couple of thousand bucks to someone then I have to question their sincerity/love. If you are talking in the $100,000 sin sot range then I have no applicable advice, as you are operating in social strata beyond my experience.

Thank you all for these comments.

I have some indefinite amount of time to plan so I can proceed with some caution.

When I come to a point that isn't covered in this thread, I will come back with more questions.

I didn't work for 60 years to have to count my pennies. I find that 300,000 baht a month satisfies my needs barely

I don't know what this response is about in this thread.

Count pennies? $8,000/month is a long, long way from living on the edge, especially in Thailand.

I believe it was intended as commentary on what it takes to live comfortably.

A couple of notes on my experience to date.....

I forgot to inform my credit union that I would be "over there", and they put a hold on my debit card. A phone call and it was resolved, but easier if I had done the notification first.

One of my banks happily makes transfers at no charge to a Bangkok Bank branch in New York, which then transfers to, so far, my girl friends account here in Bkk. I do not know exactly what they charge, evidently some sort of fee for currency conversion. I will know more when I succeed in getting my own BB account.

On that note I read a post a few days ago, and now cannot find it, of someone's experience of opening an account at Bangkok Bank main office in Bkk without the folderol of getting a notarized letter from the US Embassy, etc. Anybody know about this?

I have never heard of anyone who was required to obtain a notarized letter from the US Embassy to open a bank account at Bangkok Bank. (I opened mine with a passport, visa, address, and cell phone number.)

I was told this is a requirement upon inquiring at a branch office, and it is indeed one of the alternative documents listed in the Bank's instructions on how to open an account as a foreigner.

I believe I will use the reference letter method, again suggested on their website.

I was just trying to do it more conveniently since, as I say, somebody ( perhaps yourself ) reported being able to open an account without a bunch of extraneous documentation. I may try once more to repeat your experience. Can you say which office you did this at?

A couple of notes on my experience to date.....
I forgot to inform my credit union that I would be "over there", and they put a hold on my debit card. A phone call and it was resolved, but easier if I had done the notification first.
One of my banks happily makes transfers at no charge to a Bangkok Bank branch in New York, which then transfers to, so far, my girl friends account here in Bkk. I do not know exactly what they charge, evidently some sort of fee for currency conversion. I will know more when I succeed in getting my own BB account.
On that note I read a post a few days ago, and now cannot find it, of someone's experience of opening an account at Bangkok Bank main office in Bkk without the folderol of getting a notarized letter from the US Embassy, etc. Anybody know about this?

Sorry, but most medical professionals concur that alcohol addiction is a disease.
I find the "95% dropout rate" seems to come primarily from a competing, for profit organization.
There are also those who drop out but return for subsequent efforts and are successful whether it be their second, third, fourth, etc., attempt.
AA is only for those who have a problem with alcohol and want to stop having a problem. Even if it really only worked for five percent it would be a worthy and laudable program.
Then there are people like my great uncle who could function well in business and social milieus despite a slight muddling of his speech most every day by 17:00, when perhaps most people have their first cocktail.
Then there is the "Alcohol problem? I don't have a problem! I drink, I get drunk, I fall down. No problem!" crowd.
"Up to you", as my Thai girlfriend says about many things. If you think you have a problem AA people will help.... no charge, and by the few rules no judgement.
AA helped several close family members obtain and maintain sobriety for decades.

Only tourist??? How about retirees not qualified for health insurance?

For sure. I have multiple issues which would facilitate any insurance shyster claiming "Pre-existing condition.... denied!"

I would like a bare bones policy which covers me if I get run down by a motorbike taxi, etc.

Regular health care I will take my chances with a public hospital, and pay the best that I can.

The monkeys are natural to the area, and suggestions about relocating or otherwise disposing of them are way out of line, IMO.

The suggestion for improved warning signs is not bad, though I wonder if most four year olds would find them useful?

The greatest responsibility does rest with the parents. Don't blame monkeys for behaving like monkeys.

What if the little guy had fallen off of a rock and broken his arm? Would people be advocating for removal/fencing away all rocks? Or maybe swath the whole island in foam rubber to allow soft landings?

Kids get cut, scratched, bitten, and broken as part of their "rite of passage" to adult hood. Thankfully it did not look like a very serious wound.

As for those complaining about the macaques being "filthy animals", or whatever, the solution is simple; stay out of their habitat.

I have to take issue with "The monkeys are natural to all areas" unless they swam the 7.4 km/4.5 miles to get to Ko Larn naturally.

I have seen a HUGE monitor lizard on Koh Phai, which is 11.6 miles off the mainland, but they can swim pretty good.

Monkeys seem to be a bit less amphibious (to me anyhow).

BTW way, do you use that idea of "Dogs are natural to all areas" ideology with your local animal control office (dog catchers) if a dog bites a child back home? I don't.

If a dog bites a child in the US, that dog gets a lethal injection. If I'm around that injection is lead.

I'm no fan of a Nanny State, but we do do some things that make a lot of sense that Thai's do not do.

Take issue all you want, because I did not write "The monkeys are natural to all areas". I wrote "The monkeys are natural to the area", i.e. Koh Larn, to the extent that one of the beaches is named Monkey Beach. "Monkeys naturally inhabit the island as well as other wildlife." Quote from an article about Koh Larn.

I'm sorry, but your post is lacking several degrees of fact and logic. The macaques are resident to the island, however they may have gotten there. You anecdote about monitor lizards on some other island makes no sense in the context.

It also is not automatic that a dog gets a lethal injection in the US if it bites a child. In some jurisdictions the circumstances are considered, i.e. if the kid was beating the dog with a bat, etc.

A lead injection is the first resort of those not accustomed to much thought, in my opinion. I use it only as the last extremis.

I doubt that coffee has anything to do with it and it's definitely not a poison. Many studies have shown that in less than really excessive amounts it's good for your health. People who drink coffee live longer and are less likely to suffer depression. Other benefits, but those are the only benefits I can think of off hand.

This is really sad.

Can you imagine someone who has the same condition in Thailand looks up this thread and reads nonsense like this?

I would ask Sheryl to delete irrelevant and simply wrong posts.

Hmm, I am a "freedom of speech" sort, but that applies to "edumaficating" those who err and stray as well. As I posted in another thread it would be well to read through previous posts before commenting.

Sheryl, who has chops as a medical sort, has already posted about the effects of caffeine on the condition, so full caff coffee very much does have an affect.

Otherwise I concur about coffee having benefits and not being (I hope) a poison. It is I think my only vegetable alkaloid indulgence anymore.