David Walden

21 hours ago, raysunshineray said:

Hi Ubon Joe,

Do you know whether the combination method is also an option when applying for OA visa in home country (UK)?

If it is an available option, are there similar problems to doing this in Thailand when it comes to proofs of income? 

I have a state pension and a private pension - all documented, and these can be shown.

I wonder whether existing documents confirming pension are enough or any additional proofs required?

Would an additional specific letter from the pension providers perhaps be required, or existing documents legally attested?

This question arises from the fact that IO in Thailand have asked for further proofs of income (specifically mentioning pensions recently) from certain Embassies (US, UK etc) which they have said they cannot provide. 

One can't simply assume that it would be a different matter when applying in one's home country.

Thanks for your time and valuable advice.

If you have a state pension in UK and a private pension as well and that private pension in a recognized fund and has a surrender value of equal to BT800.000, your UK Thai Embassy should just accept that as enough to obtain a retirement visa.  That's how I do it in Aus.  I don't even mention the Centrelink Government Pension or the cash I have in my bank. The surrender value of Bt800,000 is all I need.  Like the lovely lady at the Aus Thai Embassy in Canberra says "Don't put in your application about Aus Pension or money in the bank that will only confuse immigration.  The surrender value of Bt800,000 is enough".  Of course, some people have given all their money to a pension fund for the whole of life cover.  They have no surrender value you get a regular payment until you are dead and no refunds.  This type of pension is seldom issued now in Aus and petty well all Super Fund investment policies have a surrender value.  My Surrender value is published on my fund account each day, it changes in sympathy with the share market value.  I can take as much as I like or as little as 6% of the balance each year (that's the law as it is in a tax-free environment).  You don't have to get a download just a statement must an original document from the fund and signed, not a copy (so you can't download it).  The lady at the Embassy agrees that my Aus pension, plus the money I take from my bank managed pension fund each year would also get me the pension.  "But don't do it that way just put the surrender value on your application and say no more, we treat it as money in a bank OK". It's proof you have Bt800,000 to live off for the next 12 months."  Works well, Visa all sorted out is less than 10 days.  Arrive in Thailand with everything in order and you can stay up to 2 years. (see the previous post about that)

22 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

If you are doing it at the embassy in DC, there is no need to have it notarized nor to have dated the day before.  If it is done at a consulate like at LA or NYC it might be. 

Well yes, it is an abuse of process and an insult to require an applicant to have an original bank statement issued by your bank, a police report from the state police commissioner, a medical from your doctor and all documents of the 36 pages of your application signed by a JP.  That is all 36 pages.  But the Thai Embassy in Canberra would not issue the visa unless all 36 pages of the application were signed individually by a JP, my JP is a friend and neighbor.  He just kept on making comments as he signed these 36 pages which were unprintable on these pages and laughing (funnyman)...What all of them?  5555.  We are only here to witness your signature.  He would only sign each of the 36 pages if I signed before him because as he said "I'm only witnessing you signing., I have no idea what's in the documents.  He signed all the pages reluctantly as a friend because I told him they wouldn't give me the visa unless he did sign (TIT in Australia).

    Like I often say   "I sent you a five page letter because I didn't have time to write you a one page letter".

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

David with respect.....

 

Obviously besides me they fooled AustralianSuper with over 2.2 million members and Superguide as well.

 

Refer attached links:

Tax transparency report.pdf

https://www.superguide.com.au/superannuation-topics/earnings-tax

 

Actually this tax on super (accumulation phase) was implemented before 2009 not 2015 as you stated.

 

Refer to a report dated Feb 2009 where the tax is already included:

http://www.tai.org.au/system/files_force/super_tax_concessions_final_7.pdf

 

On 1st January 2015, AAP income deeming and both income/asset testing were universally implemented with grandfathering for pensioners with super schemes (pension phase) before this date. This was the reason for the "almost out of control of activity in the retirement funds industry to get your super in place". Not the reason you stated.

 

Refer attached link:

https://www.dss.gov.au/our-responsibilities/seniors/benefits-payments/age-pension/deeming-information

 

You are always in denial that deeming and both income/asset testing were ever implemented and bombard people with your "$465k financial asset threshold for the full AAP" fantasy.

 

Maybe this forum is not ready for fairy tales...….

 

With any rebuttal, hard evidence to the contrary would be appreciated....

 

 

If you still believe that the assets threshold for the AAP for a person who does not own a house is not $465,500 (maybe gone up a bit in the last few weeks).  Then you clearly do not understand Centrelink's AAP information.  Not much point still posting further with you.

5 hours ago, Brickbat said:

There is no “ grandfathering”. It’s very simple, and PAINFUL. In my last tax return, which is in retirement phase, income from up to 1.6 million is tax free. Income from the rest was taxed at 15% .

And listening to some hardcore lawyer who is advising the labor party,  it’s about to be whacked even more, if they buy her suggestions. 

Sorry but you are so far away from the facts that there is no point pursuing this issue further

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

No,  no tax is deducted from investment fund profits prior to making the dividend available to pension members.

Looks like they have fooled you as well.  Prior to the 01/01/2015 in Nov and Dec there was almost out of control of activity in the retirement funds industry to get your super in place or add to it before this new stealth tax was introduced so it could be grandfathered and not attract this new stealth tax.  The retirement funds are now required to deduct this 15% GST look-a-like tax before the profits are distributed...and they don't have to tell the customer how much, it's just an operating cost.

12 hours ago, LosLobo said:

David, with respect, your last two posts have nothing to do with the AAP.

 

In fact I found them misleading. 

 

They only apply to a super account before the pension phase.

 

If your super account is in the retirement phase (that is drawing a retirement income stream), then the earnings on the savings in your pension account are exempt from tax, including capital gains.

 

Yes, that is correct the dividends are tax free but the Govt has taken the 15% tax on profits on the investment funds prior to making the dividend available to the investment holder.  It is a bit like a 15% GST on super fund profits that you don't know anything about.  It is being introduced over time you will not know it's happening.  It is almost a secret.  You can get no tax credits if you are under the tax threshold or losing money on an investment gone bad.  All Super investments that are taken out after the 01/01/2015 are subject to this new requirement.  If it was introduced to all existing super investment at the time of introduction there would have been a super revolt by pensioners and retirement fund owners and been a major election issue in the following election.  The super funds also kept it quiet.  The labor party did not use it in their election campaign which suggests that collusion has occurred and there has been a bipartisan decision between the libs and labour in Australia.  All super investments in place or prior to this date at that time of introduction were not subject to this look-a-like 15% GST on super.  It kept the small investors happy.  Still very good for those with super around $1.6 million outside Super. It all went ahead unnoticed with both major political parties accepting it.  All further Super funds created after 01/01/2015 are subject to the look-a-like 15% GST tax.  My super is grandfathered as it was taken out prior to 01/01/2015.  It may be better now to buy investment bonds in the same as super bonds from your investment fund and keep them outside the Super funds as many people are already doing.  If you have a super investment of $200.000 and receive a 6% dividend of $12,000  then you will pay $1800 tax by stealth and will not even know it's happening.  Your dividends on your $200.000 investment account will keep you at a point with the AAP tax threshold and just under the point where you will need to pay any tax at all.  about $32,000 for a single person.  The Government is collecting billions of dollars each year from super funds and like lambs to the slaughter by stealth, we just accept it.  They said it would never happen for a hundred years

PS... there is a higher tax threshold for people receiving the AAP of about $32,000 per year so taxation issues are relivant to my discussions on this subject and other posts I have made. 

1 hour ago, brian1314 said:

David,
I am a retiree trying to follow this post with regard to the new regulations and the combo method of obtaining extensions, so please, please, please stop posting off topic comments about OA visas

To use the combo method as I said Australians are in a good position.  The Australian Centrelink Social Service will pay your pension in to your bank account at their expense anywhere in the world each 4 weeks and that is irrefutable proof that you are getting your pension in a Thai bank of about Bt500,000 per year from the Aus Gov.  You should be able to put another Bt300,000 in a Thai Bank a/c for 3 months to qualify to receive a Retirement visa.  The reason why this should be so is that it is simple proof.  To make it work it has to be simple and provable (sadly lacking in the past).  The Embassies and Thai Immigration are not going to peruse long winded profit an loss statements and company structures, shares, family trusts, etc for you so you can get a visa.  In the past, the Embassies sort of pinned the tail on the donkey had a wild guess and Thai Immigration accepted this as it came from an Embassy.  This is simply not going to happen in future (I think, TIT).  When I got my retirement visa in Australia I used the statement from my Bank managed retirement fund showing a surrender value of more than the required amount.  Very simple for the Embassy.  The lady at the Thai Embassy said "some people bring share certificates, bonds company profit and loss statements etc. an all sorts of stuff for us to look at and they will not do it, it could take all day. They have to be able to prove they have Bt800,000 in a bank a/c, or a retirement fund like mine or prove they have proof that they have a pension.  It must be simple preferable a single amount of say Bt300,000 and a pension to add up to Bt800,000 per year and then only after a year at least.  If you do it properly it will all work out in about 10 days and you will arrive in Thailand to be good for 2 years stay.

9 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

The "family" home is not counted as an asset in the scheme of Centrelink assessment, but if you are deriving income from it , then that is counted.

Superannuation is also not counted as an asset.

�

My very very last post...both of these comments are rubbish.  The family home is not counted as an asset but it significantly reduces your asset Threshold for a single of $465,500 to about $258,000.  The only thing which is not counted as an asset is the family home you live in.  Super is an asset like any other asset you have and the threshold is at 01/07/2018 is/was $465,500.  Any amount above this level the AAP reduces at $3 per $1000 of assets per fortnight and peters out at about $770.000 where you get nothing from Centrelink  Gaud stiffen the crows!!!.  I have put all this stuff on this site a hundred times.

28 minutes ago, Hoppyone said:

Correct and you you don’t lose rent assistance until you been out of country for 6 months but is restored when you arrive back in Australia 

???

11 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I kind of remember this when I sold mums place when she went into a nursing home, sounds about right.

 

Someone mentioned deeming, I did do the research but couldn't believe what I was reading so I just dropped it.

Just read the last post about assets for AAP recipients and just stop the BS

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Money in the bank is a financial asset and will be deemed as income.

 

The threshold for the full pension under the income test for a single non-homeowner is still $161k not $470k.

Sorry not true.

5 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Money in the bank is a financial asset and will be deemed as income.

 

The threshold for the full pension under the income test for a single non-homeowner is still $161k not $470k.

So what your saying in essence is that if I have $470,000 in the bank or less and am married to a Thai who has Australian Citizenship and has been in the country for 10 years, I will get the full pension, but halved because she is 21 years my junior and can find a job to support me, regardless if we returned to live in Thailand ?  

You will only get half the married rate about $700 p/f  sorry but your wife will get nothing until she is about 70y/o.  Because you are not single you cannot get the single rate of pension. (AAP) I hate to be the bearer of bad news.  It's tough giving advice about Aus pensions. If you tell them the truth they often hate your guts.  I'm not being flippant but you would be better off getting divorced and officially separated when living in Thailand.  As an single AAP pensioner, you would get $858.00 per fortnight after 6 weeks absent from Aus. and be able to keep any dividends from your assets of approx $470.000.  If living in Aus your wife may be able to get some unemployment benefits but remember if she gets a good job her income could reduce your AAP payments some or a lot or you could get none (please don't throw old boots at me) yes it's shocking.  

Full pension

From 1 July 2018, pensions reduce when your assets are more than the amounts below.

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Turn off your caps lock, please.

I know what I'm doing...thank you.

53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, not exactly.

I'm not frustrated by newbies in general.

I am specifically frustrated with your posts here about O-A visas and reentering with them while still valid when the actual topic has nothing to do with that.

The actual topic here is about applications for annual extensions based on retirement done at immigration offices in Thailand using the combo method.

At this point, combo method applications with embassy letters should be expected to be accepted as they have been for many years, but combo method applications without embassy letters appear to be much more problematical. I hope like others that situation will improve but I wouldn't bank on that.

I think the best advice without embassy letters is to do an 800K seasoned bank application if you can until the uncertainty about combo method applications without embassy letters is resolved (if ever). 

We will indeed start to see more reports of such attempted applications over time as there will be people not prepared to make any other type of application that also failed to get their embassy letter last year when they could (referring here of course to nationals impacted by the stoppage of letters). 

A bigger wave of such reports can't really be expected until several months from now until after the letters obtained last year run out of validity time (reportedly six months). So I guess starting in about JULY is when this stuff really hits the fan for larger numbers. 

It is very hard to understand anything about these posts.  Like I say I've been trying for 7 years.  There are lots of issues that need to be cleared up before many people can get satisfactory results from their retirement visa applications...Thai Immigration has painted themselves into a corner with pedantics.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

My understanding is that O-A visas are always issued these days with multiple reentry permits by default.

You can only get an O-A  M Visa which the Thai Embassy refers to it as a Retirement Visa in you apply to Thai Embassy in Australia and elsewhere, so people know they are applying to the Embassy for a Retirement Visa.  Sorry if my comments sound ridiculous but pedantics is what Thai Immigration is all about in Thailand...much simpler if you get your Visa in your home country.  Much fewer pedantics. 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Oh geez, dude, this is getting ridiculous.

Yes, if entering on an O-A still valid for additional one year stay stamps at a land border they should grant that as well. But they likely see those much less frequently than airport arrivals so it would probably make sense to talk to them before handing over your passport. 

 

Again, the topic here is about formal applications for annual extensions of stay based on retirement done at immigration offices in Thailand.

 

The rules for that having NOTHING at all to do with the experience of having a still valid O-A visa and entering at borders and getting new one year stamps.

 

At a later date if you wish to stay in Thailand, after you can no longer get additional one year stays based on a valid O-A visa, then you also would be applying for an annual extension of stay based on retirement at an immigration office in Thailand. Got that? Or you could go back to your home country and get a new O-A. Some expats do serial O-A visas, but most long term people don't. 

Ahhhh now that all sounds simple.  I have been studying it all for 7 years now and I'm still trying to get a handle on it.  Are you getting frustrated with these obvious questions that will pop up when laymen try to enter Thailand honestly to retire?  I bet that 95% of the first time applicants following these posts still have not a clue about getting a Retirement Visa or permission to stay, extensions to stay etc. or in a Thai Embassy overseas.  It's all a disgrace.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yep, nothing to do at all with applications for annual extensions to stay at immigration offices in Thailand. Airport entry points are not immigration offices and there is no application process when entering on an O-A that is still valid for continued additional one year stamps. 

So if I went to Cambodia and back on a bus what do I get when I cross the border as I return (on a bus) or is that not possible due to red tape.?  When I got my extension, permission to stay or anything you want to call it, I did the business at an immigration entry point at DMK speaking to and receiving Thai Immigrations authority stamp to stay provided where it says Visa by an Immigration Officer (was on his badge) and you say and Thailand says it's not an Immigration Office.  That sort of logic would only apply in Thailand.  Yes, TIT.

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

 

I will never understand this "self-flagilating expat" mindset - blaming out own people like some sort of Expat-Stockholm-Syndrome.  It was a FELONY to lie on those stat-docs - no small thing.  Immigration could have reported any cases where lying was evident at any time.  To my knowledge, no published study/report has indicated a high percentage of false incomes reported.

 

Meanwhile, immigration actively-encourages completely faked financials via agent applications.  Therefore, it is clear they Do Not Care about whether the incomes reported are legit.  No - they simply saw embassy-letters as taking a "cut of their agent-action."  Given many of their staff act criminally on a daily-basis, many do likely believe everyone else has a similar criminal-mind, so assume "they must be lying" on embassy-letters.  The thief thinks everyone else is really a thief at heart, too (or a fool, for having principles - therefore, a sucker to be extorted).

WE are the golden-geese laying "free foreign money job-creating" eggs, and immigration is the one killing us, for no sane-economic reason, at every turn - out of selfish greed for maximizing their corrupt money streams.

Could not have put it better myself...thank you

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

For the nationals effected we are beyond the debate about why the letters were nixed.

 

It happened and now the nationals impacted must deal with it.

 

The focus here is income methods for retirement extensions in Thailand. The new memo covers the 65k monthly import option again for extensions in Thailand. Not relevant to OA visa from home country.

 

There appears to be problems with immigration acceptance of combo method applications sans embassy letters.

 

Bank method still stands either for an OA visa from home country or annual extensions in Thailand. Money for an OA typically show money in home country. Money for 800k bank method for annual retirement extensions must be shown with money in a Thai bank account properly seasoned. Money shown outside Thailand is not ever accepted for retirement extensions.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

So do you think I've lied?.  I've never had money in any Thai bank in all the time I have been coming to Thailand...Retirement Visas permission to stay, extension etc.etc.  I rest my case.

Singing and music for simple people is like participating in and playing in the low-level sport.  Singing with a group even out of tune (a bit only I hope) is fun and very good for you. it improves your outlook on life not to mention the social benefits..  Makes you happier. 

  Singing high profile is just hard work. 

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

UJ isn't a Thai. Wrong terminology means wrong information!

I have 3 entries in my passport in regard my 3 arrivals to my present O-A   M Retirement Visa.  Being visa class non im O-A.

1...Arrived on 4th Oct 2017.  Admitted till 3rd Oct 2018.  (364 days) (Departed 11th Dec 2017)

2...Arrived on 22 March 2018.  Admitted till 21st Mach 2019 (364 days)  (departed 11th July 2018).

3...Arrived on 29th Aug 2018.  Admitted till 27th Aug 2019  (still here).

      Even the Immigration officers just call the visa an  O-A visa as shown in the passport.  There is a border to the stamp made up from a whole lot of coded letters and numbers.  Perhaps you or Thai Immigration know what these characters mean. I haven't got a clue?  So how come you know so much when even the Immigration Officers at DMK haven't got a name for it???  Assuming your correct could you put it into layman's terms so that ordinary people can understand what Immigration is talking about...please 

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I find your comment incredibly naïve. The U.S. embassy is likely done with this. They rudely stopped issuing embassy letters disrupting the residence stability of a great number of U.S. citizens. Then they talked about an alternative for using the income method. For a while they gave some weak tea lip service to trying to "train" Thai immigration to accept U.S. income documents such as social security benefits letters. Nothing came of that. Nothing, and it's clear it never will.

 

The alternative came from Thai immigration in a MEMO that fails to mention the combination method. The rules in the memo are extremely onerous even for people with the full 65K income. Must show 12 monthly transfers. Each must be at least 65K. Each must be from abroad. Each and every year for as long as the expat is getting annual extensions in Thailand. No room for any flexibility or mechanical/timing issues with money transfers / exchange rate dips (if your income is close to 65K) at all which actually in real life are not particularly rare. It basically pushes many people into using the 800K bank method which is fine for people that can meet that and are willing. In my view, this new "memo" scheme (the income method without embassy letter) is probably the MOST ONEROUS scheme in the world for nations that have retirement legalization programs. But the 800K method remains which is significantly less onerous so it's not all bad news, as at least that methods stands. As far as the U.S. embassy is concerned they likely think they've already done their job after messing people up stopping the letters. Now there is that income method alternative without letter which didn't exist before. Should there be pressure to make the combo method actually apply to income applications without letter? According to our top guru here it already does but it's already clear in real life some or many offices do not see it that way. Yes, of course. I'm very skeptical the U.S. embassy is going to be very involved in such efforts, and even with success, it's the same inflexible MONTLY IMPORT rules, but with the combination method instead. Why am I skeptical? Look at that totally unclear memo we got from Thai immigration as far as combo. Look at the total lack of flexibility in the memo rules. The U.S. embassy was supposedly involved in suggesting things to Thai immigration in that. I don't see how the results can be seen as anything but very expat-unfriendly. The U.S. embassy was supposedly interested in encouraging Thai immigration to accept U.S.  based income documents. (Will never happen.) If these are the type of results we can expect from proactive action from the U.S. embassy, then to expect much more at this point is as I said before, quite naïve. 

1...I believe the reason why letters letter of income are no longer supplied is that they were based on a sworn declaration in the form of affidavits or stat decs.  the information used in these affidavits to create these letters is mostly based on false information or to put it bluntly is "lies and BS". 

2...There is only one real requirement you have to present to obtain a Retirement visa and that is you have to show you have Bt800,000 in your home country bank or in a Bank a/c in Thailand and some paperwork.  To achieve that outcome Thai Immigration has been allowing some flexibility in establishing proof of how you achieved proof of this money.  It has become evident that many people that applied for these letters did not have the required money and the information on your affidavits or stat dec is a "cock and bull story". If you do have the money in a bank you don't need the letter.  I'm sorry for the genuine ones who have been affected by this.  All Australian have been caught up in these letters issue.  We make a declaration (Statutory declaration) stating we have the required funds.  The Embassy simply witnessed our signature on our document.  Thai Immigration accepted that as fact. The "cock and bull way " is no longer accepted by the Embassies and Thai Immigration.  Yes, someone killed the goose that laid the golden eggs.  Too much BS.

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I find that hard to believe. The average U.S. social security pensions is significantly under 65K per month. So I don't believe combination applications have been at all rare in the past. It's been a well accepted method.

HOWEVER, it's a totally new ballgame with income applications WITHOUT embassy letters. That's obviously because the "memo" explaining the alternative way to income qualify for retirement ONLY talks about monthly imports of at least 65K and nothing else. 

 

It should not surprise anyone that immigration offices are taking that literally. Of course they should still do combination applications without embassy letters but in my view it's an error in the MEMO not to spell that out EXPLICITLY.

 

In the interview on 103 FM the US Consul indicated that the combo method had been discussed between him and Thai immigration extensively.  I believe his comments on this subject could indicate the US Embassy is likely to use their influence to have US citizen use the combo method more often if required and they would assist by counseling applicants on how to go about it better, perhaps by using their influence to get Thai immigration to implement this method more simply.  He also indicated that the US Embassy in Thailand had 1,600 staff whose main aim is to assist issues like this and invited US Citz not to held back. Perhaps if a few people make the application it will get the ball rolling.

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You got a one year permit to stay allowed by your valid OA visa not a extension of stay when you entered the country.

I prefer to use simple English so that people know what I'm trying to tell them.  I am talking about my personal experience.  I was given a permit or extension or permission to stay in Thailand which is valid for a year after my original visa expired...I don't care what the Thais want to call it.  I'm using it as a verb, not as a noun.