on-on

Suthep was on all channels at approximately 21.30pm

Was there a giant hole in his head? Because we have it on good authority via a chain of aunts, uncles, co-workers, girlfriends and som tam vendors that he was shot in the head. How lucky that he recovered!

Just reported On SKY News 10 Dead 120 injured

Any of them Suthep? We need independent confirmation of what Uncle Somchai heard about him while playing dice down at the rice mill with the police chief.

EDIT: Thailand's Number One News Source

Suthep was on all channels at approximately 21.30pm

Was there a giant hole in his head? Because we have it on good authority via a chain of aunts, uncles, co-workers, girlfriends and som tam vendors that he was shot in the head. How lucky that he recovered!

I also assume should the situation escalate the elite troops will make an appearance?

They did show up during the gun battle on Vipravadhi, which was probably the only example of competent military execution you've seen through this entire debacle. There was video of some group of Thai Air Force special forces guys in full black gear and facemasks running palm to shoulder with MP5s who looked very coordinated to watch and didn't run around firing their guns off next to each others' eardrums. Then they'd cut to the regular arm and it's keystone cops time. Watching all that it made sense why the reds called off the attempt and one of the leaders fled in a disguised vehicle, whoever was running that wasn't fooling around and cut off the front and back of the convoy before closing in on the separated elements.

I assume these guys are out there somewhere, but given the politics of how, why and when various elements of the Thai military are used an in what situation (the military being its own self-interested and quasi-autonomous entity), who knows what the plan is.

if you have a source it would be kinda helpful

My wife's Aunt's friend's sister who is married to a farmer who works a General's land up in Saraburi told us, but he doesn't have a blog so we can't link to this unsubstantiated rumor He also has proof that Thaksin is dead and that certain people have HIV, unfortunately there's no way to prove it!

I'm sure it gets worse as you go down the HDI scale, but Thailand is the rumor mongering-est place I have ever spent time in. Nothing happens officially here, everything is rumor and because it's right about 10% of the time and because integrity in journalism is suppressed by every group in power regardless of affiliation it will remain so (until it doesn't). Drives me absolutely bonkers. I'm surprised the weather here isn't reported that way on TV. "My uncle saw a cloud in Nakhon Ratchasima headed toward Bangkok, so there is a chance of rain today. Please bring your umbrella."

What does that number mean?

Nothing.

just heard reuters reporter killed. No further info yet

Reuters came out earlier and said this is not true.

The Nation: At Sathorn... Reds' fire have become a big bonfire jus outside Shell and Oz embassy.... thick smoke ...

I'm sure the Aussies will be thrilled with that.

If you don't see a pack of guys named Bruce run out and toss a bunch of shrimp and sausages on it and then stand around drinking beer it means we've truly lost the Australian Embassy.

TV forum software SNAFU. Ignore This Post.

You just know some stupid organization has a fireworks show scheduled for tonight that they've forgotten to call off. I love it when that happens in the middle of an armed civil insurrection.

Anytime any gun is fired it is "LIVE ROUNDS!!!!" and always the live rounds are being fired at the most sensational targets possible. It's not that I doubt it happens, but since it gets reported in every single case any information short of video becomes absolutely useless.

Hey calm down man. This is just an expat forum where those obsessed with politics (me included) can spout off. We all know or at least I hope so that it means nothing in the big wide world. Same as at NM and all them other places. Blogland is like some pub where people can go and give their opinions uninformed or not to all and sundry. Sometimes rows even hjappen. Guess its better than a pub as no glassings or fights. Oh and Im sure no Thai person really gives a hoot wht we say on TV or NM or any other such place.

The only way to glean anything even moderately interesting off of Thai Visa is to immediately skip any post that has words in all caps or in a big funny font or follows some idiotic double spaced single line declaration format - or in any way reeks of an attention-desperate person hyperventilating at his keyboard, mashing the keys angrily with spittle flying from his lips and closing every message with some pompous claim like "Case Closed!!!" There are some interesting posts in there, but the screaming drama queens really ruin most threads.

"The soldiers just opened up on everyone. Old people, women, ambulance crews."

This a tweet from Time journalist Andrew Marshall on the scene now.

http://twitter.com/Journotopia

Not sure really believe that.

Better to wait to see what the Nation tells us to think.

If the soldiers open up on "Old people, women, ambulance crews." there will be video all over YOUTube in about thirty minutes and the red leaders will have the bodies on stage within an hour or so, so you'll know pretty soon what happened one way or the other.

"The soldiers just opened up on everyone. Old people, women, ambulance crews."

This a tweet from Time journalist Andrew Marshall on the scene now.

http://twitter.com/Journotopia

His Twitter feed is entertaining, I'll say that. If half the stuff he tweets has happened then there are several hundred, maybe several thousand dead people being hidden somewhere.

evacuation orders at Asoke road!!!

Soi Cowboy's at that intersection, so I'm sure in about 30 minutes Thai Visa will be chock full of drunk, angry Englishmen ranting about the red shirts, heh.

A source or link would be REALLY nice!

Unfortunately the reporter's Aunt who works in a nearby tower who received a call from her friend who lives in Thong Lo who was talking to her driver who was gassing up the car after picking up the dry cleaning nearby couldn't be reached for comment, as is the usual case.

Just a question: what is happening outside Bangkok downtown, particularly in the Provinces? Can somebody give us a picture of the situation; Chiang Maii, Udon Thani, Korat, Khong Kaen....? Is it quiet?

This is going to be the real concern. A huge and self-contained protest in the center of a large city is inconvenient, but it's contained. If this becomes anything like a prolonged rural Maoist insurgency (which I'm not suggesting it will, but it has shown specific signs) then that would be really detrimental and could actually tear at the national identity and political cohesion of the country in a much stronger way than this sideshow ever has.

Anti-government demonstrators vandalize a fire truck Friday, May 14, 2010, near Lumpini Park in downtown Bangkok, Thailand. The Thai government continues to move against the 'Red Shirt' demonstrators who have occupied sections of Bangkok for more than two months shutting down hotels and key sections of the tourism industry.

Looks like time for another sweetheart fire truck payola scandal at city hall!

RT @WizardofWindsor: At rajprasong, the #redshirt leaders have given order for all barricades to be drenched in gasoline.

Malaysia is much more democratic now then it was under Mahatir .

Recent yes but seems working .

Yes, same for Indonesia post-Suharto. You don't put an asterisk next to democracy just because it's not textbook. I'm American and we often cite our history of democracy. We don't refer to the eradication of the Indian nations or a century of slave-holding or another century of Jim Crow-style oppression as a time that proved that we couldn't handle democracy culturally or racially or whatever, we just view it as a time when we were fundamentally wrong about how to administer our democracy (really, really wrong in one of the worst ways possible) and during which we were evolving. We're still evolving and our democracy is still imperfect. Everyone's is. You don't slap bookends on any given moment and announce that democracy can't work for that society because it's not textbook perfect at this moment. It's social and political and economic change, it takes time.

Yeah, the whole live rounds business never makes much sense and it's always announced authoritatively. If an army switches to live ammunition and starts firing on a crowd you don't get 1-2 dead and sporadic head wounds, you get scores dead. Of course anyone could be using live rounds, who knows what happens in combat, but if soldiers (plural) - as in a large group or all of them as is being blanketly stated - are firing on large groups of protesters with live rounds you'll know about pretty quickly because most of the protesters will be lying on the ground injured or dead.

My guess would be that this is directly related to the death of Colonel Romklao as much or more than anything else.

I don't think so. This is a red-on-red shooting. Expect to see a few more.

Could be anything, sure, it's been a twisty-turny week. Can't say with any confidence who killed who, just what my guess would be.

Was this planned and ordered?

This has payback written all over it, not some kind of a grand master plan to quell the troubles.

That's why I mentioned Colonel Romklao. A ton of provocation over a year or two didn't get Seh Daeng anything more than demoted to teaching ballet, but once his guys killed an officer he gets tapped in the head at the next convenient opportunity. From what I've read about the unwritten code of the officer corps here (as is true in most professional armies) it would be in line with his having purportedly caused, ordered or simply created an environment in which another officer was directly taken out. Still, who knows - none of us, I'm sure of that.

Nostalgia of the wild west...But social movements cannot be compared with such situations.

Sae Deng is now a martyr for some people, depending on the way it will be utilise we will have Peace or War.

I think you will find that The Black Panthers didn't come from the Wild West and were very much a part of a social movement there, Robespierre. Google's only a click away, there's no reason not to use it.

My guess would be that this is directly related to the death of Colonel Romklao as much or more than anything else.

The PM and Army chief would step down, in disgrace.

However, this is Thailand and as can be seen, if you sucker up to the Elites you can do anything you want.

So nothing will happen - at all.

Comparing what would happen in fully developed America or England or Germany or Japan to what would happen in developing Thailand is an exercise in futility, though. We could play precursors all night until we get back to the original sin, whatever each person deems it to be, and how that would never have happened either.

Not sure what will be the result of the shooting of Seh Daeng -- but in most western countries -- this action that was taken would be illegal (whether he deserved it or not). He was a citizen of the country, he was not holding hostages, there was no imminent danger, he was not pointing a weapon at police, and was taken out by a sniper. Simply, this was an extra-judicial assassination.

Most fully developed Western countries haven't had this exact kind of problem for a long-time, though, so it's apples and oranges. Back in the good old days of bonus armies, The Business Plot and this kind of thing in America extra-judicial killings were more common because people were forming what amounted to militias and paramilitary movements. It's only since we have a relatively cohesive national character with strong institutions and rule of law that this kind of thing has gone largely by the way side (I think you could easily call situations like the murder of Black Panthers Fred Hampton & Mark Clark nothing short of an extra-judicial killing carried out by the FBI and Chicago police, though, for example).

EDIT: I'm guessing there's plenty of extra-judicial killing from the early days of the Troubles over in the UK as well, though I'm not too well informed on that topic.