Trevor1809

I don't understand why the op wants to risk a rejection on some technicality just to save a bit of paperwork. Trying to the do the FLR myself and doing it on the same day service caused no end of problems and I still battling with UKVI over the extra surcharges that I had to pay. Yes it cost more money having gone through a solicitor but at least my wife got her FLR.

Left to my own devices I wasn't even offered the damn appointment and still had to pay a shed load of money to get nothing. I think it is false economy to do this on the cheap when you consider the potential outcome.

At the end of the day, the paperwork that you have to submit is stuff you should have in any case although I agree there is a huge volume of it.

One thing that did surprise me as I went to Sheffield as well was that I had a lever arch full of stuff bursting at the seams. There was one other couple there that seemed to have half the amount of stuff I had then everybody else seemed to have just a few sheets of paper.

Now I accept that I have no idea what kind of visa they were all applying for but it seemed very odd that there was me with a ton of stuff then there were all these people with next to nothing.

The other annoying thing was there were two, I will refer to them as helpers, who were acting as some sort of agent dealing with the applicants spreading themselves out and taking up the limited seated waiting accommodation whilst the wife and I had to stand most of the time.

Hi Trevor, when we applied for my wife's spouse visa the second time round I decided it would be easier to resign as a director for 6 months prior to the application so I could just use my bank statements and wage slips, like a normal employee... The scale of me going down the director route was outrageous.. A director of a smaller company would have no problem... My situation is a bit more awkward... I work as a director of a company that this year will turn over more than 8 million, 12 months bank statements for us is about 2000 sheets of A4 paper, the bank statements are only a small part of the application... The massive scale of preparing all the paper work would not only be time consuming but also cost 1000's in admin costs... I would without any exaggeration need a sack barrow to submit my application... The other problem I have as a majority shareholder out of 8 different shareholders (4 of us family) is I am 1 person short of the non family shareholders to be exempt from being classed as self employed rather than employed.... I WOUD NEVER EXPECT AN APPLICATION LIKE THIS TO BE PROCESSED THE SAME DAY... It would be impossible and would never recommend anyone who is in my situation to go down that route... Loads easier by giving the Mrs a pay rise and slipping in a p60 6 months wage slips and bank statements... Nice simple application.... I don't think I'm risking a rejection at all but can understand where you are coming from...

I guess you can resign your Directorship then just be a normal employee and submit P60 and payslips. I agree that the paperwork provided under category F seems excessive and no doubt the case worker has no idea what they are looking at.

Stuart is not risking rejection on a technicality!

From the financial requirement appendix.

4.1. Ways of meeting the financial requirement

4.1.1. Where the applicant has to meet the minimum income threshold, the financial requirement can be met in the following 5 ways:

•  Income from salaried or non-salaried employment of the partner (and/or the applicant if they are in the UK with permission to work)...........

(7by7 emphasis)

I still wonder if it is worth taking the risk. Would the case working not want to know why the sponsor has no employment, no pension, no benefits, no private income, absolutely nothing. Just wondered is they dug deeper by looking at the settlement visa and saw the difference started to ask questions. As I exceeded the income requirement on my own through salary why it necessary to supply company accounts, CT600, dividend certificates, bank statements showing all income matches the statement both for me and my wife.

Given that RTI has been running for a few years now all this paperwork seems to be unnecessary anyway, just phone up HMRC and ask them and the case worker gets the earnings up to within a month of the application.

I don't understand why the op wants to risk a rejection on some technicality just to save a bit of paperwork. Trying to the do the FLR myself and doing it on the same day service caused no end of problems and I still battling with UKVI over the extra surcharges that I had to pay. Yes it cost more money having gone through a solicitor but at least my wife got her FLR.

Left to my own devices I wasn't even offered the damn appointment and still had to pay a shed load of money to get nothing. I think it is false economy to do this on the cheap when you consider the potential outcome.

At the end of the day, the paperwork that you have to submit is stuff you should have in any case although I agree there is a huge volume of it.

One thing that did surprise me as I went to Sheffield as well was that I had a lever arch full of stuff bursting at the seams. There was one other couple there that seemed to have half the amount of stuff I had then everybody else seemed to have just a few sheets of paper.

Now I accept that I have no idea what kind of visa they were all applying for but it seemed very odd that there was me with a ton of stuff then there were all these people with next to nothing.

The other annoying thing was there were two, I will refer to them as helpers, who were acting as some sort of agent dealing with the applicants spreading themselves out and taking up the limited seated waiting accommodation whilst the wife and I had to stand most of the time.

I've absolutely no idea whether any of the guys are following/posting on TV but I know all the Thais are getting info from Thai-centric websites. Will update this thread when more news comes in.

And why does that make it believable?

An ex g/f got in touch with me having seen my Line id to tell me that my ex wife was on some Thai ladies website on the 50 shades branch using the id name Madam ****.telling everybody how I tied her up and beat the crap out of her.

Now if I went to Thailand and libeled a Thai I would be in deep do do. Having seen a lot of what my ex has written about me I am not sure I could believe anything a Thai writes on such sites. It is all about saving face.

The thing that strikes me about this is that we are only getting one side of the story then 3 out of a total of 10.

What I have learnt about dealing with Thais is that I only understand half of what is going on most of the time, whether it is lost in translation or simply wrong or lies. I only know of about 5 % of what went on with my wife's application and it severely pee'd me off that I was excluded from it all until it all went tits up. Then I had to sort it out. Again totally due to face saving and not admitting she had gone to some agent or other. Had she admitted it was all too much then I would have employed a Thai solicitor to deal with it or come over myself.

As you say the taxi driver may have been a pratt, may be not who knows.

In which case, tell your accountant to pull his finger out and get the accounts done on time!

The end of the financial year will be the 31 March. The ILR application will be week later. I don't think it is up to my accountant to perform some miracle to please a Government Department that has no clue as to how the real World works. Given this is part of the visa process I can't be the only person to have encountered it.

I suppose technically I could resign the Directorship and put the shares in the wife's name then I would meet the requirements of category A. Assuming that they don't look at the FLR application and smell a rat.

Who told you that you have to use category F?

You say you have employed income which exceeds the requirement, so use category A.

Category F is for Directors of companies where the Director has control of the company ie not a public limited company. The wife and I own 100% of the shares and are the only employees. My understanding that puts me in Category F.

I am sure we have discussed the question before of submitting under category F when my PAYE salary exceed the earnings requirement.

I very nearly failed to get the wife's settlement visa for falling foul of submitting under category A when I should have done category F. I don't intend to make that mistake again.

I do sometimes wonder what the worth of a solicitor is, other than for complicated applications and refusals.

My solicitor was able to cut through UKVI's BS and get my wife an appointment for a Premium application. Yes they were expensive but still cheaper than the £1500 in additional NHS surcharges that the crooks at UKVI charged me.

So my solicitor was money well spent. Not necessary of course if UKVI knew what they were doing.

I take it the earnings requirement still applies at the ILR stage. On the FLR category F it states How much did you or your sponsor earn from Self Employment in the "last financial year".

My wife's ILR application will have to be made from the 5 April 2018 to the 2 May 2018. My account says that there is no way that they can prepare accounts for the financial year April 2017 to March 2018 in that time frame.

I exceed the earning requirement on PAYE anyway so will have a P60 but I still have to apply under category F. So how does UKVI expect you to achieve the impossible?

Does anybody else have their wife's FLR or ILR renewal very close to the end of the financial year?

They don't!

It is children of the applicant the form asks about and it is the birth certificates of the applicant's children that are required.

On the FLR(M) form Q 4.3 says Does your sponsor have any children living in the UK whose parent is not you.

If you have answered no to Q 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 proceed to Section 5

4.4 If you answered yes to Q 4.1, 4.2 and/or 4.3 provide details of these children in the table below.

12.5 Have you enclosed he current passport, travel document or national id card for a dependent. (It doesn't specify whether the applicant only although it doesn't specify birth certificate).

Section 13

Children's birth certificates. An original full birth certificate ....... for each of your children. This includes ...... as well as children not applying with you and not subject to immigration control.

Whilst I agree that doesn't specify that the sponsor's children's certificates my solicitor asked that I include them. In fact since I only had the short certificate for the youngest I supplied a copy of the full certificate.

I had read the form as needing to supply them. The check list lists birth certificates.

I took that having listed my kids in 4.4 and the solicitor's request and the check list that they were needed. Put it another way, I certainly wouldn't have wanted to leave them out and risk a rejection but looking at it again it does appear that they are nor required.

Proof that they are British citizens.

?????

So what. What does my sons' nationality have to do with my wife's application. My sons have no bearing on it as far as I can see.

British children of the applicant are not included in the financial requirement, so obviously they want evidence that the children are British.

What!

I am talking about the British children of the sponsor not the applicant. Why does the sponsor have to supply birth certificates of his/her own children who are not in any way part of the application.

Proof that they are British citizens.

?????

So what. What does my sons' nationality have to do with my wife's application. My sons have no bearing on it as far as I can see.

I know that the kids are Thai but he was questioning the need to supply their birth certificates if they were not part of the application. Given 7by7's suggested reason I was just questioning to logical reason, not that the UK Immigration service needs one, to see the birth certificates of the sponsor's children when those children were full British citizens?

What's a partial British citizen?

Perhaps they want to work out the financial benefit of driving the sponsor out of the UK. A big part of the 'cost saving' of the 2012 family settlement changes was not having to pay child benefit or child credits in respect of British citizen children who were kept out of the UK.

Could they not be used to argue that the sponsor lacked adequate accommodation?

What does that have to do with asking for the birth certificates? If they asked for the Land Registry documentation I could understand it.

So just out of interest, what concern is it to UKVI regarding the sponsor's children who are British and have no connection with the visa application?

I'm not certain the kids are British, particularly as the OP states 'My wife has two children ...', not that it would matter in this instance.

Page 59 of FLR(M):

Children’s birth certificates

An original full birth certificate i.e. one which shows the parents’ names for each of your children. This includes children applying for an extension of stay in the UK with you, as well as children not applying with you and those not subject to immigration control.

That's two original birth certificates and two translations and photocopies of them all. You should then reasonably expect the original birth certs and translations to be returned and used at a future date. Keep it simple.

I know that the kids are Thai but he was questioning the need to supply their birth certificates if they were not part of the application. Given 7by7's suggested reason I was just questioning to logical reason, not that the UK Immigration service needs one, to see the birth certificates of the sponsor's children when those children were full British citizens?

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

A very valid point. The UK Government would prefer that all UK spouses go to Thailand to live. Heaven forbid that British spouses were expected to learn Thai to the same level that immigrants to the UK have to learn English.

I assume that the 2 women concerned had met the earnings requirement?

And on the subject of English tests http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34857838

The form says they should be included, so I'd include them.

I suppose the reason is so that they are on record as her children in case they apply at some future date for settlement to join her; or even just visit.

So just out of interest, what concern is it to UKVI regarding the sponsor's children who are British and have no connection with the visa application? I suppose they would argue that the sponsor's dependent children affect the ability to support the applicant but since the earnings requirement is met I fail to see why the sponsor's own children enter into the application.

I would send a strongly worded complaint to the Home Office adding that you are forced to do so as the supplier has stated that their response is final and they will be unable to correspond with you any further in relation to this matter, can be pretty sure that they have not discussed your grievance with anybody.

Complaining to the Home Office is a complete waste of time since they just ignore the letters. I now have two formal written complaints that have gone unanswered. But I suppose you have to go through the motions if you intend to take a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman.

Incidentally they also completely ignored a claim from the Small Claims court claim to recover £1000 in NHS surcharges. I was then free to ask the court to make judgement in my favour which will be another waste of time since they will ignore the judgement.

My MP doesn't seem to give a damn that the Home Office are a complete law unto them selves.

Take a look at this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34770135

Trevor, you seem to be taking quite taking quite a bit of flak from some senior members both in this topic and others. For what it's worth, I have some sympathy for what you have been saying. Only you and your wife know what occurred and the manner in which it occurred. Yes, Border Force officials do have to ask a lot of questions sometimes and they have to be savvy enough to weed out abuses in the system. Unfortunately this does allow them to abuse their powers if they wish in some circumstances. I do think that someone with a settlement visa should be able to pass through ports of entry with the minimum of hindrance especially when you consider all the forms, photos, fingerprints, brps that people with SVs have gone through. The system should easily identify such people. It still amazes me that FLRs are not stamped into people's passports.

I don't care how much flak I get. Of those dishing it out how many actually live in the UK and pay taxes in the UK. I actually believe that as a UK resident I have some rights, perhaps not as many as some that come to the UK, but that will start more flak. I also believe my spouse should have some rights.

The day we give in to Government Departments acting like judge and jury then we might as well give up. I did make the FLR application last week at a premium centre, or I should say that my wife did and whilst waiting for her to get her biometrics done I was reading the notice about making a complaint giving you the address at Lunar House to write to. When I wrote to Lunar House to get the 2 NHS surcharges repaid they simply ignored my letter. The final words on the notice was to respect the staff. Wouldn't it be nice if they showed some respect to the members of the public, like replying to a letter claiming a refund.

Whilst what you say, Seekingasylum, is in all probability true; after all you have far more practical experience in this area than I, it still seems to me that the questions the OP claims his wife was asked last week (Or was it last year? He doesn't seem sure!) were perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

I am perfectly sure, it is you that isn't. That is not my problem.

In the OP you say it was a year ago, now you say it was last week end!

You are now saying that her FLR application has not yet gone in, yet you have previously made many posts about the difficulties you have had in submitting it and said that your solicitor had finally succeeded in making an appointment at a PEO for her to do so.

So, if she did return to the UK last week end, which is after you said that her appointment had been made, I can fully understand why she would have been subject to intense scrutiny by immigration. As said previously, FLR applications have to be made from within the UK. Immigration found themselves with a person seeking entry who, according to their records, should already be in the UK!

Maybe all the difficulties you claim to have had over her FLR application are due to the simple fact that she was not in the UK!

I find it incredible that you have been subject to "the third degree" by UK immigration once, let alone more than that; are you not a British citizen?

But then, to be blunt, much of what you post I find so contradictory to be absolutely incredible; but perhaps that's just me.

The difficulties, or otherwise, of renewing a British passport in Thailand against renewing it in the UK are irrelevant to this topic.

You are making this up. I said a year ago then I said "this time". If you don't understand then seek clarification rather than jumping to the incorrect conclusion.

At no time did I ever say that I had submitted an FLR application, you have made that up. I have never had any intention of ever making a paper application. I did say that I previously had a problem making an appointment, not an application. The solicitor then failed to make an appointment on a third attempt using my wife's log in but then succeeded using another log in. Note make a premium appointment not make a submission. To date I have paid £2000 in NHS surcharges, if you disbelieve me then I will send my debit card and credit card statements if it satisfies you.

"FLR applications have to be made from within the UK" well since the passport has to be attached then it was quite clear that "no application" had been made. So there would have been no record to check.

"I find it incredible that you have been subject to "the third degree" by UK immigration once, let alone more than that; are you not a British citizen?" Well exactly unless you think that I am a liar.

"But then, to be blunt, much of what you post I find so contradictory to be absolutely incredible; but perhaps that's just me." Because you are not prepared to face up to the truth.

"The difficulties, or otherwise, of renewing a British passport in Thailand against renewing it in the UK are irrelevant to this topic" So is the FLR application that I didn't make but it didn't stop YOU bringing it into the thread.

Should maybe write to the nationals and see if they'll print your story.

That will be the day that the UK media takes an interest in the problems with UK spouse visas.

Trevor1809,

The more you post the more you contradict yourself and the more it appears that any problems you may have had are of your own making.

What your experiences with foreign call centres have to do with UKVI, UK Border Force or any UK immigration matter only you know.

You are the one who keeps trying to take this off topic by raising such things as the FLR. It is simple to understand if you choose to do so. There is no contradiction. Again the illustration of call centres is to do with people who apparently can speak perfect English but can't be understood by a native English speaker but I think to chose not to understand the point that I made.

So she was out of the UK while you were trying to submit her FLR application.

Q.E.D.

BTW, she must be able to understand some English or she wouldn't have passed the language test to get her initial visa. Surely that must have improved over the 30 months she's been living in the UK and using English every day: at least enough to have asked for an interpreter!

If not; better get her studying PDQ; she's only got 30 months to get up to the much higher standard needed for ILR and the LitUK test!

I had net been trying to submit her FLR, we had opted for the Premium service. I have been trying to make the booking when I thought that the visa expiry was in September. Not that I understand the relevance of that.

You know as well as I know that half the problem of people whose first language is not English is that they are accustomed to a particular accent or way a question is put. The English test is still pretty basic. Is a passenger going to have the bottle to challenge Immigration to asking for a translator?

On the subject of not understanding, clearly I am a fluent English speaker but I can guarantee if I get somebody call me, or I call a call centre, and the other person in in India or the Philippines then I am constantly asking them to repeat what they say because they are speaking badly pronounced English at 500 mph. So expecting a non English speaker to follow the questions put to them is a little unreasonable. But I will try that the next time I get an Indian call centre as to whether I can have a translator.

In the OP you say it was a year ago, now you say it was last week end!

You are now saying that her FLR application has not yet gone in, yet you have previously made many posts about the difficulties you have had in submitting it and said that your solicitor had finally succeeded in making an appointment at a PEO for her to do so.

So, if she did return to the UK last week end, which is after you said that her appointment had been made, I can fully understand why she would have been subject to intense scrutiny by immigration. As said previously, FLR applications have to be made from within the UK. Immigration found themselves with a person seeking entry who, according to their records, should already be in the UK!

Maybe all the difficulties you claim to have had over her FLR application are due to the simple fact that she was not in the UK!

I find it incredible that you have been subject to "the third degree" by UK immigration once, let alone more than that; are you not a British citizen?

But then, to be blunt, much of what you post I find so contradictory to be absolutely incredible; but perhaps that's just me.

The difficulties, or otherwise, of renewing a British passport in Thailand against renewing it in the UK are irrelevant to this topic.

ok reading it again perhaps not very clear. It did happen a year ago, but then again last week end. So it was the occurance last week end that I was referring to.

Last year she was asked how long she intended to be staying in the UK, a very strange question to be asking somebody on a settlement visa.

Last week end it was all about when she last left the UK, her kids, my kids, my job etc. What I also find off putting is that these questions are being put to a person whose first language is not English and that can barely understand what they are being asked.