Lamar

3 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Yes ......

OK! Thanks! It means sense for "Visa Exemption", but less sense for the "Tourist Visa" because we had already to prove of finance and income to obtain the visa (at least from a Western country). The fact is that I do not see on the official website mentioning this obligation for the bearer of a visa to have this sum of 20,000 THB in cash on arrival ...

46 minutes ago, perthperson said:

It is important to note you have lifted that from a COMMERCIAL site that is in no way associated with the Thailand, her Embassies/Consulates  or the Thai Government. 

 

You missed this which is clearly displayed on that website 

 

"This is NOT the official website of the Thai Embassy." 

 

 

Ah! OK! Sorry! 

Here is what is written on the site "Royal Thai Embassy" of my country:

- Copy of 6-month bank statement with a minimum balance of 600 Euros (Single Entry Tourist Visa) or 6,000 Euros (for the Multiple Entry Tourist Visa) 

- If you are unemployed  a proof of income (document from unemployment benefit, pension or copy of your latest bank statement, etc.) 

These are actually two of the conditions for obtaining a visa; There is also the booking of the flight and proof of accommodation.

It is also stated that:

"Your documents will be submitted to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand for approval. Visa application must therefore be submitted at least 4 weeksbefore the intended travel date."

Note that it is far simpler and quicker to have a visa in Vientiane: you fill in the form in the morning and you receive your visa the next day! Proof of income is not required.

I searched all the site of the Embassy and I found nothing mentioning that one must arrive in Thailand with 20,000 THB in pocket! This has never been mentioned to me either in the consulate in my country nor in the Vientiane consulate.

I found this mention regarding the visa waiver in the FAQs:

In the requirements for visa exemption, it is necessary to be able to present on arrival ..."a round-trip air ticket, proved document of confirmed accommodation in Thailand, and adequate finances equivalent to at least 10,000 Baht per person or 20,000 Baht per family. Otherwise, you may be inconvenienced upon entry into the country."

Do "adequate finances equivalent" means "cash" ? (English is not my mother tongue.)

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not as though they are hiding the requirement for 20,000 to obtain a TrV.

This came up when I googled "requirements for tourist visa in Thailand"

Seems to me all this talk about the modern age etc is just hokum as apparently all the "switched on" people can't use google, LOL.

 

Documents required:

• Passport or travel document with a validity not less than 6 months.
• Visa application form (filled out)
• One(1) recent 4x6cm. photograph of the applicant.
• Round-trip air ticket or e-ticket (paid in full)
• Proof of financial means (20,000 baht per person/40,000 baht per family)

 

Tourist Visa in Thailand | ThaiEmbassy.com

www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thailand-tourist-visa.php

Specifically, it is not mentioned that this sum must be in CASH! In any administrative procedure, extracts from accounts attesting to a regular income do the trick, plus bank cards, which can be read on a terminal; And, at worst, the possibility of withdrawing this sum from an ATM under escort.

Since having money in cash is mandatory, why not mention it on the consular site and why this is not specified at the time of obtaining the visa?

45 minutes ago, hobz said:

How many real tourists have thai bank accounts? I know zero.

 

Nothing more suspicous than a tourist who has a thai bank account lololol

A few years ago we could open an account with a tourist visa, without any problem it took a few minutes ... I did it when I went on vacation with all my money in my pocket and there was no security box in my hotel; A friend expat then advised me to open an account in Thailand; it is convenient for a tourist to have a Thai ATM card: no need to take too much cash on oneself, it is easy to pay in restaurants or Supermarkets ... Money can be deposited in advance for the next holiday or, once there, withdraw money from our home country account via ATM on the front of the bank and then enter the bank to deposit this money on our account ... So, yes, we can be tourist (and not make money in Thailand) but have an account in Thailand that serves as a purse!

6 hours ago, swanny321 said:

    I too noticed that the only part of the harness that seemed loose prior to 'take-off', was the strap that presumably

was meant to constitute the 'seat' portion seen in the other photos.

The lanyard that serves as a seat is present (purple arrows # 1, # 2, # 3) BUT it DOESN'T seem to be connected from the front, which will prevent it from acting as a seat.

There is a hanging structure which seems to be like a belt buckle; Strangely, it seems that it is not connected to anything (white arrows pictures # 2 and # 3).

On picture # 4, in addition to the wrong position of the arms in relation to the main straps of the parachute (cf. my post ID #102), it can be seen that the bottom strap (which is supposed to act as a seat) is not connected frontally. It would seem that a link like the one I traced in yellow in photo # 5 is missing; We can compare with the photos # 7 (yellow arrow) and # 8.

On picture # 6, it can be seen that shortly after take-off the customer is not at all in the same comfortable position as the customers on photos # 7 and # 8; The straps of the parachute pass under his armpits and he does not seem to be well supported from below. (Photos # 7 and # 8 are from videos posted on Youtube and made during parasailing in Phuket.)

The harnessing seems to have been carried out too hasty and perhaps incorrect; There was obviously no briefing or check-up prior to take-off. What a shame to dare to blame the victim!

In the Australian press, it is hypothesized (from the video) that it would be due to the bottom ties.
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/expert-claims-leg-rings-failure-led-to-fatal-fall-ng-b88535549z
Easily verifiable assumption, depending on whether the client has fallen with or without his harness.

Interesting: they emphasize the fact that the equipment in Australia makes that one is in sitting position. In fact normaly in Phuket also (see photos on my post above)

Looking at the video, one may wonder if the problem is not the way in which one has proceeded to the harness, as well as (more likely) the position of the arms at the take-off.

If we see other parasailing videos in Phuket (see photos # 1 and # 2 of the top strip), we see that the customers are comfortably supported from the bottom, they are almost seated, as for the paragliding. In photo # 1 we see that the lady is firmly held down by straps passing under the groin and around the top of the thighs (blue arrow). On photo # 2, we see the operator who clips the bottom attachments (at the groin) and on photo # 3, he is seen in flight, also comfortably installed and well maintained from the bottom, in quasi-seated position (blue arrows). It will also be noted that the straps connecting the parachute to the boat rope pass clearly over the shoulders (red arrows).

(A few years ago I myself had the opportunity to do a parasailing flight at exactly the same place and it was a very pleasant experience, not at all frightening, the take-off and landing awas smooth, and the handing position on flight was comfortable.)

The video does not show the beginning of the harnessing procedure, precisely the harnessing of the bottom (in the groin and the upper thighs), but one wonders if the bottom straps have been properly clipped (photo # 4, blue arrow). Just a doubt, difficult to decide after the video.

In any case, the position of the arms at the time of departure is not correct. The arms are ABOVE the main straps of the parachute (red arrows on photos #5, #6 and #7), while they should of course be UNDER it, as shown in photos of a normal flight (red arrows on photos # 1 and # 3) and the operator should have verified this, he should have realized it, he should have brief the client correctly.

It will also be noted that his hands are closed precisely at the level of the snap hooks that connect the harness to the main parachute straps (green arrows on photos #5 – cf. also on photos #1 and #2).

At the time of take-off, a man (probably a ground operator) is seen who seems to have realized the problem and tries to warn by shouting and gestures of the arms (photo # 8).

15 seconds after take-off (at 02:30 on the original video), just when the operator positioned himself above it, it would seem that the client is spreading his arms - perhaps as a result of the pressure exerted by the parachute straps (photo # 9).

2 seconds later, he seems to be agitated, he is in trouble (photo # 10). Another second later, he is no longer held by the harness, he is only clawed arm tense - perhaps held at arm's length by the operator? - (photo # 11). The next moment, he falls...

The client would not have had time to unhook the harness under the life jacket; If he was badly secured from below (at the groin and upper thigh), then he would have slipped off the harness and would have fallen without his harness. If, as polce seems to say, he fell with his harness on then the problem is with the snap hooks that connect the harness to the two main thongs of the parachute.

The wrong position of the hands which was not corrected or even perceived by the operators in time was probably a trigger for the accident. A forensic review of the equipment could reveal if a defect of it has eventually come into play.

If the operator who performed the harnessing informed his client correctly, the accident would probably not have happened. If the ground operator had checked that everything was in order (positions of the customer, operator and equipment) before giving the signal to leave, the accident would probably not have happened.

There was obviouly a lack of security, perhaps not in terms of the equipment reliability but in terms of the security procedures before take-off. Blaming the customer is absolutely shameful!

The Thai news are saying the guy panicked and unhooked himself, and was in fact still in the harness when he fell. It is shameful to spread this kind of misinformation! Probably according to police statements, while they are the first to hammer that the spreading of false information is a crime!

As some have already pointed out on this forum, it would be Houdini to arrive so quickly to unclip the clip fasteners under the life jacket! (There are normally 5 attachment points: 2 on the shoulders, 1 on the chest, 2 on the groin.) We still find the same tactic: they blame the victim, the client, in this case a Farang: "he panicked, he detached himself, it is his fault"! It is a total lack of respect towards the victim of the negligence of operators and negligence of authorities supposed to monitor safety!

One can see on the video that this man seemed in full form, perfectly happy and relaxed and that he showed absolutely no signs of fear or anxiety.

18 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Vigilantes....I wonder who they could possibly be?

Maybe Captain Thailand?

2 hours ago, jaywalker said:

Nero fancied himself a poet too.

Nero was nicknamed "The Supreme Artist"! Soon a Thai remake of "QUO VADIS"?

12 minutes ago, Laab Muu said:

Yes, I know where the railway police station is, but still at a loss as to where Nopphawwong (นพวงศ์ ) train station is. I don't believe there is such a place.

 

This is not a criticism in any way of any of your posts, just trying to verify facts that are being put out there, they are stating she tried to jump in front of a train at Nopphawong train station, and I don't think there is actually such a place.

I assume that this is an approximate translation issue; The words of Pol Maj Gen Suthin Sapphuang have been translated slightly differently in The Nation and in a well-known Bangkokian daily newspaper. It states: "a railway track at the Nappawong railway station near Hua Lampong railway station" and "Police at the Nappawong station caught her". 

4 hours ago, Laab Muu said:

I have never heard of Nopphawong train station, does anyone know where it is located? I know there is a Nopphawong  junction on Krung Kasem road and then just across the klong from the junction is a vast expanse of train lines feeding in to Hua Lamphong station which is just a few hundred meters further south.

 

This may be a mistake in the reporting or it maybe a station I'm unaware of?  I lived close to that area for nearly 15 years and have never heard of this station, I'm very curious.

I found it! This is not exactly a "train station", but the "Railway Police Station"; It is located near the railway track, at the northern tip of the Hua Lamphong station site.

2 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

Killing yourself my jumping off a train?  Maybe sprained ankle and some road rash.

Not "jumping OFF a train" : "jumping UNDER / ONTO / IN FRONT a moving/coming train" !

1 hour ago, balo said:

If the mother could confirm that she was suicidal , or mentally ill , it would be a lot easier to accept that this actually was a suicide.  We have news reports about her suicide attempt the 4th of April .  

 

 

  

 

 

Sunday 02 June, the Police made an official statement about this alleged suicide attempt. According to the police, this suicide attempt took place on April 4th at the Nopphawong railway station, Bangkok. Elise would have attempted to kill herself by throwing herself under a moving train. She would have been saved by the action of passers-by with the help of railway police . She was then sent to the Somdet Chaopraya Institute of Psychiatry for treatment. She later travelled to Koh Tao.

There appears to be no record of this event in the press. Thais citizens who save the life of a young Western woman in distress, that would have made a good headline.

In that Sunday 02 June official statement, Police told that Pol Colonel Pumpanmuang will be sent Monday 03 June to collect information at the train station and at the Institute of Psychiatry.

We are on Tuesday night and we are waiting for the evidence that the Colonel Pumpanmuang picked up yesterday ...

We are waiting for the testimonies of the passers-by who rescued the young woman, as well as for the testimony of the railway police, for the testimony of the locomotive driver, for he testimony of the person who registered her admission to the hospital, for the testimonies of the doctor and nurses who took care of her, as well as for the testimony of the driver who took her away when she left psychiatric institute

We are also expecting material evidence, such as the exit form filled of Elise's own writing and signed by her. It is probable that his stay in the psychiatric Institute or the consultation was not free; so a record of the financial transaction should be found, for example, the recording of a money withdrawal from an ATM within or in the vicinity of the Institute building, or possibly the trace of a transaction carried out by Elise's insurance.

Let us wait until Colonel Pumpanmuang has publicly and openly exposed all this evidence before concluding that Elise tried to commit suicide on April 4 ...

43 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Why wasn't her death reported in May in a Newspaper?

Simply because neither the police nor the justice informed the press! It was not until the mother of the victim contacted the local press! (Samui Times and Der Farang). The simplest assumption that can be made is that the authorities have tried to prevent the reputation of a tourist place from being tarnished even more by a new macabre event.

13 minutes ago, Elfin said:

Can't the mother/father sue for the cremation of their daughter's body without their permission???

The cremation was with the permission of the parents (mother and father), who attented the ceremony that took place on May 11th in Bangkok. It was not in a rush: it was 14 days after the remains was found and after 2 autopsies were performed. Please, read my post above (# 149).

18 hours ago, Emster23 said:

And who decided to cremate her? No consideration that she may be a Muslim or a Catholic, where cremation is not acceptable. Rush to cremation of body stinks of coverup.

Several members of this forum regularly report that the young woman was cremated in haste and without family agreement; This is absolutely not what the family (mother, brother and aunt) said to the press, what the contrary! 

The mother stated that she had not received the autopsy report, which she had claimed several times; On the other hand, the fact that the body had been incinerated was mentioned in the press; The mother also complained that apparently no photographs had been taken by the police of the body at the place of death.

As neither the Police nor the Justice Thaie had warned the press, and the mother did not believe in the suicide thesis given by the police, she took the initiative to contact the local press ("Samui Times "and" Der Farang ") and posting on social networks (especially on the Facebook page of the sect) to ask for help in researching what really happened to her daughter.

On the basis of these elements, some TV members have conclued that the police would have cremated the body hastily and without the family, or even that there would not be any autopsy! But this is completely wrong!

- An autopsy was  performed in Surat Thani Hospital and later by the Institute of Forensic Medicine Police Hospital, Bangkok. (Contact person was Colonel Phawat Pratheepvisaroot sein). (Samui Times, July 04)

- The body was identified from radios of her teeth, sent by the mother in Thailand. (Samui Times, Jul 04 + La Meuse* , June 29)

- The mother and father of Elise Dallemagne attended the cremation of their daughter, which took place in Bangkok on May 11th (14 days after her remains were found). They returned to Belgium with the ashes of the deceased. (Samui Times, Jul 04 + La Meuse*, June 29) 

- A mass was held on May 22 at the Saint-Etienne church in Rixensart (near Brussels). (La Meuse*, June 29) 

(*) The Meuse is a well-known French-speaking Belgian daily newspaper, which contacted Elise's aunt in the absence of her parents (I presume already left on the spot in Thailand).

"The news site often refers to Koh Tao as “Death Island,” though it attributes that nickname to international media reports and expat communities."

Then The Samui Times will be sued because it reported that some international media nicknamed Koh Tao "Death Island"?... But then the Koasod English now must also be sued because it reported that The Samui nicknamed Kho Tao "Death Island"... And so on... Every media that use the words "Death Island" and "Kho Tao" in the same sentence must be sued !

15 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Died of suffocation? A non-judicial hanging either self inflicted or not will do just that.  Judicial hangings are meant to cause C2/C3 fracture dislocation as well as suffocation.  Strangulation murderers sometimes try to fake a suicide hanging to cover their crime. The marks of bruising from the various forms of suffocation and strangulation  or lack if them hould tell an experienced pathologist whether they were inflicted by the hanging or another means such as manual strangulation, or even if they occurred before the hanging.  

OK, we understand that an autopsy will show that a victim was strangled and then hanged to simulate suicide. But if the victim has been subdued without being able to defend herself (for example because she was taken by surprise, or under the threat of a weapon, or was in an alcoholic intoxication state ... ) so that there is no trace of struggle, and then that the assailants pass a rope round the neck of the victim and hang her to a tree, the result will be the same as for a suicide. By the way, let's remind that the mother of the victim complained in the press that she had never received an autopsy report despite her repeated requests. She also alleged that the body of the victim was not photographed by the police at the place of her death as is customary.

59 minutes ago, ThaiWai said:

Hanging from a low height is the jailhouse method.  Seen it a dozen times personally.  After that you lost me due to a run on sentence with overuse of random punctuation and fancy words intended to dazzle the reader.  However, I am gonna go out on a limb and say no one has ever been strangled by "pulling the victim by her feet".  

Suicide (by hangigng at low level): the person has a knot flowing around the neck; It lets the gravitation act, a force is exerted on the rope, the noose tightens. In the case of a murder disguised as suicide: the victim does not give in to the effect of gravity; The killer(s) then exerts a force (pulling the victim down or pushing her by the shoulders), a force is exerted on the rope, the noose tightens. The result is the same. A force is a force whatever the nature of it cause. Only 2 parameters define a force: the intensity and the direction (not the nature of the cause). I do not defend the theory of murder against that of suicide, I just point out that a death by hanging is not systematically a suicide.

(Sorry, English is not my mother tongue.)

In India? In Sri Lanka? It was also written that he was in Germany ... It must not be so difficult to locate him, by his plane ticket when he left the kingdom, or thanks to the interview he gave to the press a day or two ago (IP adress!). 

The police seem to really focus a lot on him: we see his photo everywhere, as yesterday at the Channel 3 News.

There are apparently not many elements against him, except for the troubling coincidence that he left Koh Pha Ngan the same day as Elise Dallemagne ... Apparently there is no testimony nor CCTV record that he would have been present on Koh Tao at the time of the death of the young woman. The police can easily check with the Emigration Department if he left the country BEFORE or AFTER the death of Elise!

The announcements describe the members of this ashram as "weird cult" ... But can we be right sure that it is really more "weird" than certain practices of what some call "Thai Buddhism"? On the professional profile of the young woman on Linkedin she displays skills in aromatherapy, naturopathy and phytotherapy; The practice of yoga and an internship in an ashram is in logical continuity with her centers of interest and professional skills.

The interest in these practices and disciplines, a little bit "New Age", tinged with "Oriental philosophies", is something quite widespread, which flourished during the "Beatles era". This is not a priori something gloomy or a mortal threat...

2 hours ago, bannork said:

3 questions perhaps Lamar:

1. Why did Elise suddenly get off the boat at Koh Tao and not continue to Chumpon and ultimately home? Did she receive a phone call from someone perhaps saying they missed her and could she stop off on Koh Tao?

2. But why change her surname and refuse to give her passport number? Was she hiding from someone who had been on the boat?

3.If it was suicide, the guru could possibly have been involved in messing up her head in some way,.

 

1- Yes, every people wonder why she disembarked at Koh Tao! Do you make the assumption that the "guru" could have called her by phone while she was on the boat? but it seems they was leaving the same day, so why - if he wanted to stay one or more day together, not inviting her before her leaving for one or two day in Koh Tao or any other other nice / romantic place ? Your assumption can be confirmed or invalidated by CCTV registration on the boat, at the Koh Tao pier and by the date he left the country.

2- Yes, it is very strange that she wanted to conceal her identity; it's obviously wrotten by her own hand and"DUPUIS" is a typically Belgian surname. This has not been done in an anticipated and posed way: her real name remains legible under the scribbling. If you make the assumption that she was hiding from the "guru", this is not consistent with the first hypothesis. Unless she wanted to join someone else on the island, and that the "guru" pursued her - but then, who sould be this new character and from where should he come?

The story of the fire is also a mysterious element. If she triggered the fire, accidentally or not, why did the landlord give up the lawsuit? A "Farang" is supposed to be able to pay for the damage caused - possibly via her parents or her insurance. On the other hand, if she is in no way responsible for the fire, there is no reason to flee - unless someone is hunting her!

3- Generally, the practice of yoga does not incite suicide ...

I think your assumptions are plausible (although I'm not quite sure she resists the sharp blade of Ockham's razor), but, in the current state of knowledge, there are a number of other plausible assumptions. The more there remains vague and contradictory information, the more leaves the field to hypotheses difficult to verify.

1 hour ago, ThaiWai said:

Bullcrap.  You can hang yourself seated on the floor.

Yes, right! - even if not the most "classical" or easy way...

But the force exerted by gravity in the case of a suicide may be indistinguishable from the force exerted manually in the case of a murder (by pulling the victim by her feet); a force is a vectorial quantity, whatever its cause, when it is exercised with the same intensity and in the same direction.

2 minutes ago, tukkytuktuk said:

Reminds me of the Bhuddafield cult. Young, intelligent people brainwashed and manipulated by a charismatic leader.

But is this topic dedicated to the criticism of beliefs and the ngullibility of the disciples or a place to debate a supposed suicide? Or a murder?

If, as the police say, it is a suicide and not a murder, how is this guru involved? If one suspects him of murder, then one abandons the assertion of suicide? This is not very consistent!