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Lamar
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Posts posted by Lamar
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"The deputy spokesman of the Royal Thai Police said forensic examination of the Belgian tourist showed she died from suffocation, indicating she took her own life." Incorrect reasoning: this is compatible with the hypothesis of a suicide, BUT ALSO with the hypothesis of a murder by strangulation! There have been many strangulation murders all over the world!
My purpose is not to argue in favor of this second hypothesis but to emphasize that it can not be so easily swept away and that the reasoning that "death by suffocation = suicide" is not correct.
One can also (again) keep in memory that in the annals of criminal cases in this country there have been many instances of suspicion that dead by hanging are in fact crimes disguised as suicides; There is at least one proven case, when a victim escaped hanging over a highway bridge because, fortunately, the rope broke!
This is also reminiscent of Sean McAnna's allegations that two people threatened to hang him in the forest and disguise this as a suicide.
It will also be remembered that in some criminal cases it happened that the bodies of the victims were burnt at the place of execution to prevent their identification; This was particularly the case for the mass grave discovered last year near Udon Thani.Before jumping to either conclusion, there should be publicly and openly verifiable evidence!
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16 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:
The info comes from a german language newspaper based in thailand
Thank you very much ! I just read the topic... This German language newspaper seems well informed and in direct contact with the mother of the victim ... Let's hope that the mother returns to the possession of her daughter's mobile; It is likely that this mobile contains valuable information ... Its disappearance is most weird ... It is reminiscent of all the "weird" about the phones in the case of the September 2014 double murder ...
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31 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:
There may be an issue with the mobile phone
In an article one of the rescue workers claims a mobile phone recovered and kept as evidence by the police
In may the mother was told by the police the phone may have been destroyed
The can of benzine had been stolen
Please, where did you read this allegation about the rescue worker claim about the recovered mobile?
There is an expansion of often contradictory information; The press report declarations made by family, mixed with that of the police and with unverified rumors, and with report of other articles in other newspapers, re-carried in a sort of chain reaction, with at each step a loss of accuracy and verifiability. It would be desirable for those who are likely to give relevant information (family, witness...) to do so directly, for example via Facebook, rather than just through the press.
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34 minutes ago, vivasamui said:
according to Mirror:
1.The "guru" is now back in Germany.
2. He was on "visa run" same time Belgian girl mysteriously got off Phangan-Chumpon ferry at Koh Tao without her luggage.
3. Some claim Sathya Sai is cult and founder is a fraud.
Time for police to do proper investigation, starting on Koh Phangan interviewing people who stayed with Belgian girl at Sathya retreat.
1- Please, where did you get this information? For sure, going back to Germany is not exactly what can be called a "visa run" ! On the other hand, if he is localised in Germany, he is then not on the run and he can then be easy to question him via Interpol.
2- Yes, i also noted the coincidence... He mentioned it of himself in the press ...
3- There are many "gurus", "spiritual leaders" or simply monks who live a comfortable life thanks to the generosity of their disciples ... This does not necessarily make them murderers ...
I share your opinion that these people should be questioned seriously, without neglecting the other trails ...
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15 minutes ago, SunsetT said:
Any so called gurus or even followers of Sathya Sai Baba should be regarded with upmost caution as it is now common knowledge that SSB was a serial Gay sexual abuser and peodophile:
Weird, right! Surprising that these allegations are not mentioned on Wikipedia. On the other hand, this Koh Pha Ngan Center does not seem to be on the official website of Sathya Sai International Thailand. http://www.sathyasaithailand.com/
The center of Bangkok would have declared that they did not have a center there. The center of Koh Pha Nagan in question does not belong to the official organization. -
A new twist emerged yesterday in the Thai language press, a story that resumed this morning in the English-speaking Thai press, notably in "The Nation" and in a well-known Bangkokian newspaper. This is in essence what the police (Crime Suppression Division) reportedly told the press:
- Elise Dallemagne allegedly tried to commit suicide on April 4, by triying to jump under a moving train at Nopphawong Railway Station, Bangkok.
- People on the scene saved her, with the help of Railway Police.
- She was sent to the Somdet Chaopraya Institute of Psychiatry for treatment.
- She later travelled to Koh Tao.This completely contradicts what the mother (Michèle Van Egten) and the brother (Fabian Dallemagne) of the victim told firmly to the Thai and Belgian press that Elise Dallemagne was not at all suicidal.
It is surprising that this incident, which so opportunely reinforces the thesis of the police (the suicide), emerges only two months after the result of the investigation! However, it is possible that one or several witnesses of the incident may be came forward only now, after photos of the young woman have appeared all over the press, on television and on Facebook. It would be interesting that these witnesses testify freely in front of the press.
It is also surprising that this incident was not reported at the time (April 4) by the press; It would have made a good positive headline: "Thais citizens save a young Western woman from death".
Certainly suicides occur very regulary. It sometimes happens that the entourage and the family are really taken by surprise when this happens. Even the fact of having booked a plane ticket to return to her country does not constitute an absolute element in disfavour of the suicide thesis:travelers committed suicide in Suvarnabhumi from where they had to embark their return plane.
However, apart from the airline ticket and the family's testimonies and convictions, there are other factors that call into question the thesis of suicide:
- The fact that the family did not receive the autopsy report, that they claimed for.
- The fact that it appears that, according to the family, there is no photo available of the body at the place of death.
- The fact that for two months the information was hidden in the press, and that the family had to make calls for help so that this tragic event finally bursts into the open.IF the testimony that there was a can of petrol close to the body AND the body was partially burned, then this would almost certainly invalidate the thesis of suicide: one does not usually commit suicide by TWO methods simultaneously (by hanging And immolation by fire)!
It will be remembered that in the annals of criminal cases in this country there have been many instances of suspicion that dead by hanging are in fact crimes disguised as suicides; There is at least one proven case, when a victim escaped hanging over a highway bridge because, fortunately, the rope broke!
This is also reminiscent of Sean McAnna's allegations that two people threatened to hang him in the forest and disguise this as a suicide.
It will also be remembered that in some criminal cases it happened that the bodies of the victims were burnt at the place of execution to prevent their identification; This was particularly the case for the mass grave discovered last year near Udon Thani.
Before jumping to conclusions in one direction or the other, it would be prudent to rely on publicly established facts or testimony rather than on rumors or statements that are not openly verifiable.
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6 hours ago, Mooner said:
First suicide and now there is international interest they are looking for a German bf.
Seems like ive heard this story from Ko Tao before
This German man, Andreas Raaman, was never mentioned as her boyfriend ! He is rather a yoga teacher / guru. He is not on the run (he just did a "visa run") and he answered to the press about this case : http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/elise-dallemange-thailand-koh-tao-10715790
This Sathya Sai Baba Movement center that the victim attented is not located on Kho Tao, but at Koh Pha Ngan.
By the way, this "sect" / spiritual movement did not seems so "weird", nor involved in any criminal activity :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Organisation
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My friend tells me it's not sexual, that means "talog" (joking, funny...)
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It is not a question of smart or cleverness but rather of a different cultural orientation. On the one hand, we are not in the same geographical and geopolitical area; For example, the World War 2 was not experienced in the same way - nor in the same side! On the other hand, Thailand has a recurring tendency to retreat culturally on itself; Citizens are not responsible for this situation, but those who hold power.
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I get 1 good answer: "Michael Jackson" ; and 1 interesting attempt for Adolf Hitler: "Charlie Chaplin" - It reminds me when Thai television announced the death of Muhammad Ali by showing a picture of Will Smith.
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PS: The discussion keep running on this TV topic:
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44 minutes ago, Mitker said:
and here is the brave way authorities deal with the matter:
Mitker, the site of the Daily Mail has been blocked for a long time ! I think it was a "lèse-majesté" issue... You can find information about this new Koh Tao case on many other online press sites.
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On 25 juin 2017 at 3:20 PM, Harbinger said:
http://myfamilyandotherglobetrotters.blogspot.com/2010/10/koh-tao-murky-truth.html?m=1
that was posted in 2010. Its an interesting read nonetheless.
Very interesting! Particularly because this family report was posted by people who came to spend a few months on the island as a family, without any polemic spirit, 4 YEARS BEFORE the double murder of September 2014 happened. So, 4 YEARS BEFORE passions and speculations started raging about Koh Tao!
Let note this passage which today resonates in a premonitory way:
"After a few weeks on the island, we found out that Koh Tao has a dark underbelly in the form of locally powerful mafia-like families that own many of the businesses and make sure that they get the cream of the profits that tumble into Koh Tao. In the fairly short time we were there, several people were killed - that is, murdered. We even heard the crack of a gunshot on one occasion.
"It seems that on this island you really don't want to say the wrong thing about the family head or sell drugs without their permission. Even people that merely go there and open a shop or cafe that thrives can become a target and, allegedly, new businesses sometimes mysteriously burn down during the night." -
On 27 juin 2017 at 7:51 PM, sanemax said:
The Thai authorities along with the WHO did a five month investigation and they found out the the deaths were caused by pesticides, although werent able to say exactly which pesticide caused the deaths
The most probably explanation is that a bed bug chemical was used erroneously
Although no one was held accountable, it was accidental deaths, nothing malicious involved
You make is sound like there was a mass murderer on the loose
Yes, it was poisoning by pesticide, but the similarity that can be noted between the two cases is the initial denial by the police refusing to make a connection between the various deaths in that hotel, claiming the many deaths was occured at this place only "by chance". After the inquiry, there were promises that this would never happen again, that pesticides would now be controlled, which was not the case: there was a new case of double poisoning by the same type of pesticide at Koh Phi-Phi in 2012. Two cases of a different nature, but similar responses on the part of the authorities.
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Wow, that guy was fluent in Thai. Strange that didn't write his list in his native language, like every other person would have done.
Right ! This note is not wroten by a Turk : a Turk will not forget the "weird thing" under the "S" of "Ayse" (a girl name), to pronunce "SH" instead of "S" ! (And who is Ayse ?)
What is this not ? Wroten by a Thai, for sure ! (look of the year : 2558 : Buddhist calendar!)...
Can some people give some explanation and translation ? Thanks!
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(Sorry, correction) This was August 19th... At that time, Police pointed the Uighurs' trail...
Right, the police seems to lack of coherence... But there are a lot of people making statements : the Police... and the Army ! And Police is not monolithic... Remember Kho Tao : at first Police pointed to a trail related to high so people... Look about the "Bangkok 2006 bombing" : police pointed at a "Malay separatists" trail, but Police dismissed it... same as later about the Samui bombing... This is not the first time there are divergence between Army and Police...
In this case, maybe some police officers did their job... And now, Somyot tells what Prayuth said since the beginning : "no links with the government policy about Uighrs!"
Oops, sorry : I wanted to write "Army dismissed it"... Several times, Army dismissed the Police inquiry (BKK Bombing 2006, Samui Bombing... and this last case...)
Interesting too (quote from a famous English language newspaper) : "Gen Prayut also called on the media to avoid "digging" about the government's international policy on the Uighurs."
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(Sorry, correction) This was August 19th... At that time, Police pointed the Uighurs' trail...
Right, the police seems to lack of coherence... But there are a lot of people making statements : the Police... and the Army ! And Police is not monolithic... Remember Kho Tao : at first Police pointed to a trail related to high so people... Look about the "Bangkok 2006 bombing" : police pointed at a "Malay separatists" trail, but Police dismissed it... same as later about the Samui bombing... This is not the first time there are divergence between Army and Police...
In this case, maybe some police officers did their job... And now, Somyot tells what Prayuth said since the beginning : "no links with the government policy about Uighrs!"
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The passport is 100% fake, the news outlets should stop using the term "Turkish"
Its Istanbul, not Iştanbul
And two Date of Expiry columns, the first one is supposed to be Date of Issue.
what\s the difference between istanbul and the other istanbul with that weird thing below the s?
The difference is these passports are of very poor quality, this probably means they are trafficking quality and only meant to fool the most basic of border checks, ID proof or basic use not the type to book airline tickets with.
Cant go through airport security with passports like that but it would fool those at borders with no tech with guards that cant spell.
I would imagine this guy is just a caretaker of some kind but if they dont find anyone else he will be taking the fall anyway.
Imagine that you order a batch of false passports and that the name of your city - the main city of your country! - is not correctly wroten : will you accept it ? I guess a native Turkish peole will seen at first glance that "Istanbul" was not correctly wroten...
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The passport is 100% fake, the news outlets should stop using the term "Turkish"
Its Istanbul, not Iştanbul
And two Date of Expiry columns, the first one is supposed to be Date of Issue.
what\s the difference between istanbul and the other istanbul with that weird thing below the s?
The "weird thing under the "S" make you pronunce "SH" instead of "S" ; and you pronunce "Ü" like in French and "U" like in English ! For sure a Turkish people will immediatly note the bad writing !
A Frenchmen will see there something wrong if you write "Franse" instead of "France" ; Or for American people : "Niu York, Amerika"...
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The passport is 100% fake, the news outlets should stop using the term "Turkish"
Its Istanbul, not Iştanbul
And two Date of Expiry columns, the first one is supposed to be Date of Issue.
what\s the difference between istanbul and the other istanbul with that weird thing below the s?
The "weird thing under the "S" make you pronunce "SH" instead of "S" ; and you pronunce "Ü" like in French and "U" like in English ! For sure a Turkish people will immediatly note the bad writing !
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The passport is fake guys, just checked my passport. It says issued in Iştanbul.
Its, Istanbul, not Iştanbul, they got that part wrong.
This is not a Turkish passport but a very quality imitation indeed.
Right ! and "Ü" instead of "U" !!
Thai police spokesman says Belgian tourist died from suffocation
in Koh Samui News
Posted
Right! But if it's difficult to hang someone at this place (because her legs will reach the rocks), then it seems also to hang herself, for the same oblivious reason.
The force exercised necessary for causing suffocation is the same whether exercised by voluntary hanging or by a third party.
If the victim is taken by surprise, for example assaulted from behind (as often in cases of strangulation), this will leave no trace of assault other than the strangulation itself.