excaliber

Why would you hire an Engineer to supervise your project? or even an Architect unless they have extensive field work/experience. An Engineer is only capable of supervising the structure installation and also making and authorizing modifications that differ from the plans. But, TIT so changes are made without approval; unless of course we're talking about a large project; hotel, bank, high-end resort, etc., where there would be, in addition to a Project Manager, a full-time supervisor from the client side.

Hiring a contractor to build your house who supplies a supervisor is asking for trouble, in my opinion. He's being paid by who? The bottom line in Thailand is people listen to whoever is responsible for them getting paid. If a project manager isn't satisfied with the work done he will not sign-off or approve payment. On the other hand, a project manager or supervisor on the Contractor's payroll will listen to him.

It's ideal to find a project manager with both western building experience as well as local. Most westerner's who build houses here prefer a bit of western standard, especially the kitchens & bathrooms. For those who have already experience building a house in Thailand know and understand the uphill battle to get even decent quality not to mention a fair price.

...

Thanks Excalibar

Sorry to be so long replying. I rarely get to monitor this site.

My basic problem is that I want a rather different house from the usual. With plans produced by my architect I think I need:

1. a draftsman to prepare plans in Thai,

2. a project manager with local experience,

3. a builder.

I realize this will be expensive but want the peace of mind.

Of course the project manager needs to be answerable to me and completely independent of the builder. I was thinking that perhaps it might be possible to combine 1 and 2, but, from what you say, I guess not.

Because you're wanting to build a house "out of the ordinary", you will need to find a flexible builder and not one who just 'say's' he can/will build anything you want. It's good to have a contract in both Thai and English to include everything that's questionable, i.e., "No Sub-contractors without owner's consent". It's common practice to meet with you and agree on everything, sign a contract and never see him again as he's passed the job off to someone else and is happy with his commission.

I can't really comment too much since the design is unknown at this time. Bear in mind that if you do want to build something unusual then you or designated project manager or supervisor need to be on-site most of the time to make sure the builder is indeed building the foundation, structure and finishes the way they are detailed in the plans, and of course, stock up on the aspirin.

You might be surprised to know that many builders don't bother looking at the details of the plans and build the way they know how and will cut corners whenever possible. Don't get me wrong, there are good builders out there but you have to babysit them in order to get what you desire and even with full-time babysitting, you will have problems. I can make a list of them but I'd probably get banned for using up too much space.

In regards to the structural engineer: Unless you hire an expensive one out of Bangkok you may have some problems in communicating unless you speak and understand Thai with emphasis on construction words, phrases, techniques and requirements. Most (in my experience) Structural Engineers in Thailand will 'overbuild', i.e., use more concrete and steel in the design than necessary. There are Thai standards (matathon) of design for the foundation & structure that most use. For example: The span between support columns will dictate the size of the horizontal beams, usually .20m wide x height (based on the distance between columns). This may be fine but most would-be homeowners these days use lightweight aerated block where the structure standards are designed and built for heavier materials such as concrete block or brick.

Finding a good builder is probably the most difficult and next would be getting a fair price. Make sure the builder you intend on hiring prepares his own BoQ and cross check it with the one your Architect prepares. You will usually find discrepancies that can add up to a substantial sum. If you can find a Project Manager who is also an Architect, understands English fluently, can work with the structural engineer, prepare the plans, details & BoQ then you'll be one step ahead of the game. The fewer people involved the better for obvious reasons.

Not much more I can say without knowing more information about your project.

best of luck....

You may be right about not copying any other house excalibur. though somehow I doubt they'd fill the cracks in that one so may be something to learn as it's built on 6 foot of fill.

....So normally for piles it's not just deep excavations they actually bring in the truck with the pile driver tower, seems a lot for a house? How much a day? How many days for a modest house 1500sqft? What would be a typical pile size?

thanks

I don't recall saying not to copy any other house. If you check around to get an 'idea' of what type foundations were used it will help in deciding what you want for your house. Example: If you find houses with normal foundations and large cracks in walls, etc., as compared to houses built with piles and without cracks then you have found the answer unless of course all the cracks have been filled. Ask questions?

For prices you may want to click on one of the google sponsors here "foundation piles", a Thai company. They can tell you what you want to know, maybe.... typical pile size is .30m x .30m x 3m, 4m, 5m, etc.

If you need professional help, PM to me the details and I will pass them on to the Structural Engineer for evaluation and fees.

The most sensible answer to your question so far has been: "It depends on where you're building".

Some areas like Kalasin have mostly sandy soil "dinsai" while other areas are mostly clay beneath about one meter of soil.

In the latter, you will most often want conrete piling while in the sandy soil you may not need piles although the cost of piling compared to normal foundations isn't that different. If you want a better and stronger foundation/support system for the entire structure, then of course use piling @ five meters, give or take. If they rund into large boulders they will stop driving and cut the excess off at the top.

Another thing, You're building in Thailand and metric is used here and not Imperial units except for lumber sizes and a few other things like screws, nails, etc. There are free programs to download that will convert Imperial units to metric.

Don't expect an ARchitect or Engineer to understand your feet and inches and the builder won't appreciate wall distances in fractional terms, like 9' since the equivenlent in meters would end up with several decimal points that will only confuse the builder and not exactly cost effective for using materials properly, most specifically, steel.

You may want to check around your neighborhood to see if anyone has built on ricefield land and what type foundation they used. Then look around for cracks in beams and column where they meet the beams.

From your post, I'm assuming you want to bring the level up to the existing road. If the road is still dirt then you know sooner or later they'll make a better road with concrete or asphalt and the existing level will rise so you'll want to adjust for this unless you want all the water runoff to flow into your property. If you adjust the final level of your land in relationship to the existing road, add at least .5m for the finished floor of the house, or 1.00m is better.

Many will say it's better to fill now and wait through the rainy season to allow time for natural compaction then dig down again for the foundation footings. This is fine with piles but if you're building a normal foundation (without piles) then I sould build the foundation first then fill, then build your grade beams then fill again if need be.

and just to clear up a basic item. A structural engineer will design the structure for a residential house and not a civil engineer. Civil engineer's build bridges, high-rises, roads, etc. When you go to get approval for building you only need the signature of a licensed, Structural Engineer.

Thanks kamalabob2 for your long and thoughtful reply. The architects are

friends in Australia so don't have in-house Thai draftsmen. They will

provide (they promise) a detailed Sketchup design.

Tassini: Nice to hear a good news story for once!

I'm in Kut Rua Kham, roughly midway between Udon Thani and Sakon Nakhon cities,

officially in Sakon Nakhon province. But I'm prepared to travel to anywhere in Isaan

to a good engineer. Of course the engineer might not want to supervise if it's too

distant :-)

Geraint

Why would you hire an Engineer to supervise your project? or even an Architect unless they have extensive field work/experience. An Engineer is only capable of supervising the structure installation and also making and authorizing modifications that differ from the plans. But, TIT so changes are made without approval; unless of course we're talking about a large project; hotel, bank, high-end resort, etc., where there would be, in addition to a Project Manager, a full-time supervisor from the client side.

Hiring a contractor to build your house who supplies a supervisor is asking for trouble, in my opinion. He's being paid by who? The bottom line in Thailand is people listen to whoever is responsible for them getting paid. If a project manager isn't satisfied with the work done he will not sign-off or approve payment. On the other hand, a project manager or supervisor on the Contractor's payroll will listen to him.

It's ideal to find a project manager with both western building experience as well as local. Most westerner's who build houses here prefer a bit of western standard, especially the kitchens & bathrooms. For those who have already experience building a house in Thailand know and understand the uphill battle to get even decent quality not to mention a fair price.

There is indeed lots of information in this, and other forums from experienced expats who have built houses in Thailand, and I suspect, everyone would say, "It's no picnic" as well as confirming that it's far better to take the time to make sure everything is clear and detailed before the construction begins. Anything left out will usually cost you more, even simple things.

There's a mis-belief that by hiring a project manager the total costs will be much more.

For many years, the average fees for project management on a residential home are about 100k Baht/month. Hotels & resorts up around 200k/month. So lets take an example:

Here's a nice expat who wants to build a nice house to retire in. He's read a lot on the forums and knows how to cut corners and save money. The problem is, he's not going to be at the property since he's working offshore and can only come once in awhile. ...ok...He's found on the internet the kind of house design he & his wife/girlfriend like and he has a few changes made by an architect and get the (structure) plans re-certified for getting permission to build. He assumes the plans are detailed properly although they're in Thai and not many expats can read Thai so he goes ahead with getting estimates from Contractors for labor & materials. This in itself is mind boggling and can take a lot of time. Many will say the best way is to drive around and find a house that looks acceptable to you and knock on the door and find out who the builder is....

The next step is meeting with the builder and showing him your plans. Most builders will basically figure out the area: living areas including balcony's and covered verandahs and give you a square meter price based on above average materials. You'll argue, in vain, "why do the balcony & verandah areas cost the same"?

Most materials will have a maximum price, such as floor tile @ 300 baht/sqm. If you decide you want a better grade tile or floor covering then the difference is added to the bill. Additional labor costs can also be added if out of the ordinary installation is required.

Some contractors will give you a detailed boq that will include material & labors costs, Up-country, most will not. If you supply the builder with your own boq prepared by your architect and he agrees to it then the door is left open to dispute and the builder will want more money for something saying that your boq didn't include enough steel or concrete, etc. It's best to have your own boq to compare quantities with the builders boq. You will usually find fault with the steel, concrete, cement, etc., and unless you have knowledge and experience in these areas it best to have someone from your corner to verify everything. ....ok...now the bottom line of the contract will include a 20% profit for the builder, this is in addition to any padded labor & material costs. So now, on top of the labor & materials there's 20%, plus possible set-up fees, temporary housing for the workers, etc. ....and most builders don't want a "labor only" contract since the profit is much, much less.

Although there are builder's who will take on a labor only but you'll have to be on site all the time and makes trips to Global or Homemart regularly to make sure the workers have what they need to keep working and unless you're on top of the project, i.e., knowing what's needed beforehand, you'll most probably be asked by the builder for materials needed right away, taking you away from the project when anything can happen. Example: installing the water & drain pipes under the floor and covering them up before they've been tested, this happens all the time and since the builder says to you "I guarantee 100%" the pipe don't leak. So you usually take his word for it and pray everyday that they 'don't leak', especially the septic pipes...

..many years ago I was managing the construction of an electronics factory in Korat and although the plumber bragged he was the best plumber in Korat, I insisted he remove all the dirt around the pipes that he covered up so we could test them for leakage. It was already agree but, "I forgot, but don't worry, I guarantee they don't leak". I made him remove all the dirt and he was quite upset even after finding leak ind eighteen different places, and most of them were in the ladies bathroom where there were 24 toilets and 20 sinks. If left un-repaired with a terrazzo floor there would have been major problems later on including having to shutdown the factory work to tear the floor out, not to mention the smell.

I know this is a long post/reply and there's no doubt a handful of readers that will not agree with me. There are many expats who can claim they've built a house or two without any problems but maybe one in a thousand.....

If you're building a small house, 50 to 100 Sqm then hiring a project manager wouldn't be in your budget. On the other hand, if you prefer a trouble free house to western standards as well as saving money, think about hiring a project manager who can at the very least, make periodic inspections, at critical times as well as initial meetings with builder to make sure everything is understood just to help ensure your future isn't spent fixing things instead of enjoying your home.

By the way, in keeping with the OP's subject, I work with structural engineers a lot and not one of them will supervise (successfully) the build of your house although they can design & prepare structural drawings and sign them and many will accept payment for not having to do much if hired to supervise.

Grout is never a barrier to water. If the pool is leaking, almost 90% of the time, its in the piping. Every now and then, we get a structural leak, but this is extremely rare even in the worst possible construction. Best to drain, pressure test all piping works.

Best,

Gil

According to the OP, the pipes aren't the problem, so that leaves you with 10% credibility.

In response to your statement, "If you cannot rely on a 20cm wall pour, how on earth do you think you can rely on a 2 or 3mm thick layer of soft grout? Crazy.". An epoxy based grout will seal the joints if properly done. A 3mm layer of epoxy is very strong, waterproof and non-porous; unlike the 20cm wall.

If the pool was built and finished properly it wouldn't need re-grouting, as in the hundreds you claim to have done. Perhaps you were the original pool builder as well...keeps the workers busy and creates an endless income. You kinda resemble the Clinic doctors who pass out antibiotics to young kids who have runny noses and your posts seem to be an attempt to support your superior knowledge and name in case one of your past or present clients happen to read this forum.

"There's more than one way to skin a cat", Your way isn't the only way just because you use the name "Doctor".......and as far as water evaporation, I wouldn't put much weight on that one during the winter months.

Grout is never a barrier to water. If the pool is leaking, almost 90% of the time, its in the piping. Every now and then, we get a structural leak, but this is extremely rare even in the worst possible construction. Best to drain, pressure test all piping works.

Best,

Gil

Grout IS a barrier if the proper ingredients are mixed with the grout, as well as grout sealers.

Poorly constructed walls of the pool without the proper admix can also result in cracks.

You can pressure test the pipes without having to drain the pool.

Don't always listen to the doctor.........

anyone know if the new course at Yaang Taalat, Kalasin is open ? and if it is, how is it?

and the price for a round, caddy, etc.....thanks

Wow....No good builders in Kalasin, OR Khon Kaen?

Pianoman, didn't forget me did you?

Prior to starting construction on my new house in Kalasin I did a lot of research and only found two "Recommended" builders in Kalasin... The #1 was an instructor at the Technical College and was so busy that we would have had to wait over 18 months prior to the start... That was 5 years ago, and I understand that he is even further behind now...

I went with #2 and other than the usual Communication Problems, were statisfied with his preformance... Since that time he has gone out of business and left the area due to financial problems... Decent Builder, bad financial manager...

The best builders / houses that I have seen in the past two years have been built by builders out of Khon Kaen, including my next door neighbor's house which was completed 4 months ago... Sorry, do not have their contact info, but I am sure that I could obtain it if you would like..

Pianoman

Pianoman,

If not too much trouble, I would appreciate the contact info for the builder you mentioned from Khon Kaen. Do you know if he will take on a labor only project? since we have at least 1/2 of the materials already.

pm info please...thanks

Any information, contact number, etc., regarding a good builder in Kalasin would be greatly appreciated.

House to be is 200 Sqm, U-shape, aluminum windows (installed by company), etc.

Basically, looking for some good hands (labor only) for superblock, wood floors (prefinished), tile, electrical and other finishes.

Thanks in advance...

OK – here's a couple photos. It's still work in progress for some of the finishing though:

And just to clarify some things:

The OP stated that he lives in Udon Thani province (which is where I am at the moment although on opposite sides of the city) so I was relating to what he might expect around here. And, along with some rendering sketches, I also had floor plan using some free download software (pretty basic but gave a good idea of what we wanted). We went to two builders in Udon city both of which just hauled out their stock plans and which one did we like. They did not seem at all interested in building something otherwise. So, we ended up talking to 4 local "builders". All were interested but would only quote based on overall dimensions even though I offered to pay for a design plan and detail material estimate. One guy did make a stab at a design using some software but it was a wooden structure on stilts and barely resembling what we showed him (and a "quote" of 3-4m). So, we ended up going with a guy that said he understood what we wanted (but also would not or could not put anything on paper) so we agreed to a phase approach paying him for labor and we bought the materials. The footings went pretty well so we went on to the 1^st floor foundation and the problems started (they were ready to pour cement until I asked where was the plumbing) Anyway... to make a long story short we fired that guy and the next one. The labor we hired turned out to be pretty good at their respective craft (although a couple were really lazy) and just needed to be told what to do and where to do it along with a LOT of supervision in case they took it on themselves to be "clever" or trying to cover up screwups instead of fixing or re-doing.

Back to architects... with your experience it seems strange you would say architects are not builders. In my two personal experiences using an architect (here and in the states), his company was the builder and supervised the construction folks he employs (although not full time). In both cases, the end result was very good and well worth the extra cost. When it's the other way around, I doubt you get the same quality product. And my observation is that most major projects are done by architectural firms versus Ajax Construction. After all, architects have educational, apprenticeship, and licensing requirements whereas I don't know of any similar requirements to be a "builder".

Just to be clear, Nong Bua Lamphu is it's own province and I am at the west side of that near the Loei border.

Taking the time to respond in detail to your limited experience & observation would only be a waste of time since you think Architects are Builders and do a better job of supervising the construction then a builder. What I can say is after 20 years as an Architect/Project Manager and 20 years as a General Contractor in the states, an obvious, better qualified supervisor would be someone with actual, hands-on experience rather than someone with none. You mention both the states and here with two projects being the extent of your experience. In the states, you won't find many Architects supervising private home construction, if any at all. it's not their job and in most cases a supervisor isn't needed since the government supplies inspectors to make sure the Builder is building to code and won't allow the builder to continue before signing off. He will make sure everything is correct before allowing the builder to pour concrete, cover over plumbing, electrical, etc., unlike here where you need an experienced builder to supervise or yourself if you have some knowledge and experience of building techniques and proper use of materials. Large commercial & industrial projects are a different story. Since 1988 I've worked on factories, banks, resorts, hotels, private housing, etc.,throughout the Kingdom and never once was there an Architect supervisor on any project who didn't have actual building experience. You may be right about one thing though, most builders in Thailand don't have degrees or licenses to build.

One more item that I noticed in your above response was that if you weren't there, on-site, all or most of the time the project would have been a disaster and a good builder with qualified workers won't need a supervisor/babysitter if he has a decent set of drawings. Here in Thailand they're only needed if you hire village workers or hands with limited experience. and one more small thing; over the years I come back to TV to try and give advice based on my experience and there has always been resistance from someone such as yourself who always knows better....this is true not only on this forum but every other one in Thailand...but since it's pouring down rain and due to the economic situations around the world, work is slower than usual so I have more time but as usual, I'll spend my time doing something else since 99% people who do ask for help and/or advice never respond with a thanks anyway.

Jingthing,

without looking like I'm trying to hijack your post, would it have been more appropriate to add "penny-less" to "homeless"?

Staying in hotels and having plenty of money to buy land and houses, etc., hardly fits the bill of "homeless"...IMHO...

In my experience, you will be wasting your time with an architect unless he will also supervise the construction. If your main requirement is the floor plan, you just need a decent builder (but good luck on that) or the wherewithall to supervise construction yourself. Having just gone through the DYI with pretty good result I can tell you it is definitely a challange and work to keep on top of things, but you will save at least 50% of what the so called "builders" will screw up anyway.

Are you saying that your house cost less than 50% of what a builder quoted you? If so, that's pretty remarkable.

Also, it would be very difficult to find any architect who can or will supervise a project. There are Project Managers who oversee the entire project but aren't on site all the time and then there are 'supervisors' who do spend their time on site.

In addition, there are very few builders who can prepare detailed drawings and a structural engineer is required to prepare the structural drawings and sign them. Yes you can build in some areas without approval although later on you may be asked for 'certified drawings' and if you don't have them you may end up paying a lot more to the land office/tessaban/Orborta, etc., to prepare and sign them although a bit difficult to verify once the house is up and the foundation and structure are covered over. If you don't have detailed drawings and trust the builder to build your house to above average standards you may be in for a very big and costly surprise. Architectural drawings and structural plans are certainly cheaper here than in the west but I've seen too many expats wanting to build multi-million baht homes and reluctant to spend a reasonable fee for accurate and detailed plans.

In addition, many projects won't warrant a full-time supervisor due the size and budget. Most, if not all builders will follow the plans as it should be. When and if there's a problem or difference of opinion or "that's not what we agreed", then the plans are what determines the bottom line. Unless you're building a very small house, bungalow, etc., it's best to have detailed plans including detailed structural plans, roof structure plans, foundation, etc., as well as a detailed BoQ to help eliminate any "mis-understandings". Many expats think that if something goes wrong a lawyer will sort things out.

Well, good luck with a lawyer. In my experience you'll be spending a lot of money and waiting a very long time before it ever reaches the court if it does at all. I've know many Thai's who've been ripped off and most of them just let it go since they know it's pretty much a waste of time even thinking the courts will sort it out.

Do your homework, read all you can from people who have experienced building here before you start. There are many expats with years of experience who can help and advise and just as there are reputable builders there are honest and reliable expats.

Unlike the west where there are government inspectors, you're at the mercy of the builder to build your house to acceptable standards so you won't be spending the rest of your retirement years repairing shoddy work.

Not sure if you addressing to me? But, since you took my post I will respond.

Yes - I just completed a 7x10m inside with another two 3-1/2 x 7m outside (for cooking area and whatever). That's 2 level - 2 BR plus LOTS of space up and 1 master BR down with a nice living area and western style kitchen. This is on a "pole style" structure desiqn but that's the only thing people understand around here. When I originally asked 3 "builders" with a scetch design - they rolled their eyes and came up with 2-3m baht and that was just based on the dimensions - they didn't even talk about finishing etc. So, we basically ended up supervising labor ourselves and, to make a long horror story short - we came in under 1.1m baht and it's a really nice house. So, YES I did build a LOT less than a builder quoted.

I have, in the past, also built a much more expensive house using an architect who supervised the construction. That went VERY well. There are architechts who really are and people that play with planning software. If you want to do it right, get a good architect and who will supervise the project.

I will add that builders (here or anywhere) do NOT follow the plans that are not theirs - which may be good/bad depending on the builder.

The basic thing for anybody wanting to build with a bulder or DYI is, as you say, to do your homework and the more you can take on yourself, the more you will SAVE.

Cheers

Yes I was responding to your post and no, I did not "take your post", I believe the OP is Gonsalviz and you were responding to his 'post'.

I will have to disagree on the statement you made about builder's not following the plans. Maybe this has been your experience although in more than 20 years of managing construction projects of all sizes here in the Kingdom, it's not only mandatory but crucial that the builder follows the plans and details. If it wasn't then projects would really be a mess. In addition, not everyone has the time and/or experience to supervise their own house construction and not speaking the language will also confuse things.

When you built your house, did you climb up the ladder of the ready-mix truck to see if the concrete was too wet or allow them to add as much water to the mix as they wanted? 'more water equals less strength in the concrete' and the cracks that develop over time are a good sign.

Did you make sure the steel or wire mesh wasn't sitting on the ground when they poured the concrete? and also make sure they didn't use too much water in the rendering? and inspect the welding of the steel roof structure and made sure they cleaned the grease and residue from the steel before painting it? The list goes on and on and if you didn't monitor a list of activities then you more than likely to have problems later on that can be very costly. If you get major cracks in wall due to a faulty foundation it's pretty difficult trying to repair it.

An Architect is an Architect and not a builder. Over the years I've worked with many other Architects who couldn't successfully supervise the construction of a dog house. Sure they may get on a job and play the part but they are usually under the thumb of the builder and won't interfere if the builder decides to cut corners.

Although it may be true that one can save money by "taking on as much as you can", providing you have some building experience, local and western, can communicate in the Thai and or Lao/Isaan and have knowledge of local building materials. I know of many expats who have successfully built houses here without a contractor by hiring labor and buying all the materials although all of them, without exception would not want to do it again. There are exceptions (you) but very few (in my opinion). If things go wrong, and they usually do, there's not much recourse and without a good set of detailed plans you're spending a lot of time 'trying' to explain what you want and it can be a nightmare.

You can read through the many horror stories throughout this forum and others of expats paying too much for too little and end up replacing, repairing or living with the problems long after the builder has gone.

I understand now how you saved over 50% of what a few builders quoted you in the beginning from "a sketch". You can't expect anyone to give an accurate bid from a sketch. Most builders will quote a price based on the overall living area including decks, verandas, etc., even if you try and explain that the covered deck doesn't have any walls or windows, etc., etc.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly encourage anyone who wants to save money to DIY, but only if you have enough knowledge and time to do so.

One thing that always tickles me is when someone plans to build a multi-million baht house and doesn't want to pay for a good set of plans and details. When it comes down to the wire (legal or otherwise) the builder will fall back on the plans regardless of what was verbally agreed on (unless of course you have witnesses & recordings of those conversations).

Start with a good set of plans that both you and the builder understand. Building from a sketch is only inviting problems and mis-understandings.....

I would certainly like to see some photos of your DIY house build including the interior finishes, to sort of back up your claims and possibly help others since it appears that's what your intention is.

In my experience, you will be wasting your time with an architect unless he will also supervise the construction. If your main requirement is the floor plan, you just need a decent builder (but good luck on that) or the wherewithall to supervise construction yourself. Having just gone through the DYI with pretty good result I can tell you it is definitely a challange and work to keep on top of things, but you will save at least 50% of what the so called "builders" will screw up anyway.

Are you saying that your house cost less than 50% of what a builder quoted you? If so, that's pretty remarkable.

Also, it would be very difficult to find any architect who can or will supervise a project. There are Project Managers who oversee the entire project but aren't on site all the time and then there are 'supervisors' who do spend their time on site.

In addition, there are very few builders who can prepare detailed drawings and a structural engineer is required to prepare the structural drawings and sign them. Yes you can build in some areas without approval although later on you may be asked for 'certified drawings' and if you don't have them you may end up paying a lot more to the land office/tessaban/Orborta, etc., to prepare and sign them although a bit difficult to verify once the house is up and the foundation and structure are covered over. If you don't have detailed drawings and trust the builder to build your house to above average standards you may be in for a very big and costly surprise. Architectural drawings and structural plans are certainly cheaper here than in the west but I've seen too many expats wanting to build multi-million baht homes and reluctant to spend a reasonable fee for accurate and detailed plans.

In addition, many projects won't warrant a full-time supervisor due the size and budget. Most, if not all builders will follow the plans as it should be. When and if there's a problem or difference of opinion or "that's not what we agreed", then the plans are what determines the bottom line. Unless you're building a very small house, bungalow, etc., it's best to have detailed plans including detailed structural plans, roof structure plans, foundation, etc., as well as a detailed BoQ to help eliminate any "mis-understandings". Many expats think that if something goes wrong a lawyer will sort things out.

Well, good luck with a lawyer. In my experience you'll be spending a lot of money and waiting a very long time before it ever reaches the court if it does at all. I've know many Thai's who've been ripped off and most of them just let it go since they know it's pretty much a waste of time even thinking the courts will sort it out.

Do your homework, read all you can from people who have experienced building here before you start. There are many expats with years of experience who can help and advise and just as there are reputable builders there are honest and reliable expats.

Unlike the west where there are government inspectors, you're at the mercy of the builder to build your house to acceptable standards so you won't be spending the rest of your retirement years repairing shoddy work.

good post GBB53, lots of good information.

I spent several years in the states installing new wood floors and refinishing existing wood floors.

Mainly red & white oak. Even twenty five years ago there were very good materials for finishing and re-finishing.

It was a very lucrative business. I've done some projects here and one in particular was a hotel refurb/upgrade.

The owner assumed all the tiled floors had to be torn out before intalling wood floors. Fortunatly, this not being the case we just applied the wood strips over the top of the tile with a very good mastic/adhesive. The wood was pre-finished so it was easy to finish a room in half-a-day. They chose solid mai makha instead of the engineered (thin layer of real wood) wood because they 'assumed' it was better and with the name "marriot" they didn't want 'cheap' floors. I did my best to try and explain the expansion and contraction of solid wood as opposed to laminated but it fell on deaf ears..I haven't been back so can't comment on the longevity or the consistency of properly cured wood was used although I can only assume the builder used whatever he could get his hands on as it was a rush job and nearly 300 rooms to cover..(would be interested if anyone has stayed at the Marriot (previously the Surin Beach Resort) in Phuket lately)and the condition of the floors.

I didn't see it mentioned, but, I would stay away from the cheaper rubber wood and bamboo flooring...they don't hold up for long...look great after you first get it down but in no time they show scratches and scuff marks....

It seems this subject of ICF construction needs some updating.

Has anyone used the foam concrete forms since the initial and subsequent posts?

I have to agree with some of the previous posts about this method being good athough haven't found a source yet in Thailand.

I do, however, have a friend in Australia who is about to ship the forms over here for building his house and possibly doing it as a business also. The molds are quite expensive when you include the shipping, etc., but may well pan out in the long run.

Would be very interested to learn of anyone's experience with them over here (or anywhere).

With regards to pouring/filling the forms: as mentioned, can be done with conrete pumps, either small line (2" hose) or the larger 4" line which are avaiable in all the major cities. I owned and operated a small line pump for many years in the states for many different applications including: shotcrete for swimming pools, etc.

I'm mostly interested in usig the ICF forms for the foundation wall/grade beams. If you look at most contractor tenders you will see over 100,000 baht for "wood forms" (mai ba) which, in my opinion is a complete ripoff even though the wood is expensive but the builder usually takes it all home after its been used. I know steel forms are available for this but with the ICF you have some insulation qualities and quick set-up and finish and you can pour it right from the ready mix truck without a pump.

Indeed, it's true...I just got off the phone with the embassy and they WILL make a trip to Udon or Khon Kaen if they get enough requests by email.

I need their services also and don't want to go anywhere near Bangkok at this time and also would enjoy saving the money.....

I just sent them my request by email.....hope they get enough requests.....c'mon guys.....we can all party with the money we save...

My wife buys a product to clean out the drain and which also takes away the smell. It is called soda flake (basically caustic soda flake). It can be quite dangerous and cause burns to the skin so use caution. When our drains are stinky she uses this and it works very well. She says it is available in most Thai hardware stores.

Caustic Soda, otherwise known as: Sodium Hydroxide will cause chemical burns, permanent injury or scarring if it contacts unprotected human or animal tissue. It will cause blindness if it contacts with the eye. Protective equipment such as rubber gloves, safety clothing and eye protection should always be used when handling the material or its solutions.

Dissolution of sodium hydroxide is highly exothermic, and the resulting heat may cause heat burns or ignite flammables.

Come on Excaliber, help us out here! Any more info would be much appreciated.

Thanks

To begin with, if you want polished concrete floors you'll need to pour & finish the concrete a different way than how it's mostly done here.

Usually when concrete is poured here for floors, patios, etc., a pretty wet mix is thrown in and it self-levels due to the consistency of the mix, e.g., too wet....after it drys a bit, a stiff broom is used to etch the top for applying a thin bed of concrete if tiles are to be installed. If nothing is going on top of the finished slab, a mix of cement & water (slurry) is mixed to finish off the top with a semi-slick finish.....

Ok....if you plan to polish the concrete you don't want the thin slurry mix but instead, a troweled finish after properly working the concrete to allow the 'soup' to rise to the top surface where it's troweled smooth.......

Since you haven't even built your house yet you have plenty of time to research this as there is tons of information on the internet...."concrete finishing", "polished concrete", etc.

During the polishing process an internal impregnating sealer is applied. The sealer sinks into the concrete and is invisible to the naked eye. It not only protects the concrete from the inside out, it also hardens and densifies the concrete. This eliminates the need for a topical coating, which reduces maintenance significantly (versus if you had a coating on it).

You can polish the concrete either wet or dry. Obviously, the wet way is less dusty and easier on the diamond grit pads.

when it's done you don't need a sealer. If it's done properly the concrete will have an everlasting shine without any wax build up, etc., etc.

Best advice is to do your research, as mentioned, tons and tons of information on the internet. finding some of the materials may not be easy but not impossible....getting people who understand how to properly pour and finish the concrete may be a chore !!!

"The latter impose much more dead weight on the soft soil, and thus sink. "

But......the cracks seem to come on much faster and friequent during this dry season when the clay soil is rock hard. I think it has to do with contraction and expansion of soil.

but, HOW TO HIDE IT?? inside and outside??

I dont have time for a physics lesson, however you are dealing with kinetic energy.

The foundations dont support the weight of the house, in the rainy season the soil is wet and offers no resistance, thats why your house is sinking.

In the dry season, the soil is dry and compact and not as malleable, therefore offering resistance.

The downward motion of the house sinking and meeting resistance results in pressure which is released in the form of the cracks you now have.

The cracks you have are an indication of structural damage brought on by the foundations being woefully in sufficent to support the weight of the house.

I wont even ask if planning permission was applied for, or who signed it off.

But building a house in a rice field is asking for trouble, how deep are the foundations?

As mentioned by other posters, products are available from places such as Homepro.

I fear it may well be an exercise in futility, if you have structural damage, I would advise giving the house a makeover and selling it asap, even if at a loss.

As mentioned by previous poster, take a look at some of the new houses being built and sold in Bkk, I wouldnt touch them with a bargepole, they are wrecks waiting to happen.

Better off buying a second hand property at least 5 years old, the house has had time to settle and you can see exactly what you are getting, and also a chance to compare other houses of a similair age in the same street, that should eliminate any nasty surprises.

Your statement about the foundations not supporting the house, not sure what you mean.."the house". What I think you mean is: the house walls are supported by the grade beams while the roof and roof structure are being supported by the foundation (including piles) and support columns and possibly an upper wall beam.

It's fair to say that the cause of the cracks are "unknown" since there is no indication of soils test or structural examination. I your house is build on clay without piling then the problem is obvious....clay shrinks quite a bit during the dry season and leave voids.

Doors & windows normally crack at the corners if steel (or fiberglass) mesh wasn't used under the rendering.

The other thing we don't know is if the floor is resting on the grade/floor beams or not.

Unfortunately, in most concrete/mortar applications (in Thailand) they tend to put way to much water in the mix which only lessens the strength and integrity of the concrete, hence, cracks.

and your last statement/words of advice about buying a house 5 years old where you will see exactly what you're getting...

doesn't take long to patch existing cracks and slap some paint on the wall....and unless you have xray eyes you won't know anything about pending structural problems without a thorough inspection.

Don't sell your house....there's always a way to repair even the most critical problems unless you do want to move....

Thailand is yet to be acquainted with 'S bends'. Until then, bad smells will be part of life, unless...

I used to know the contact details of a guy in BKK who sold 'Actizyme'. Actizyme comes in pellets or liquid & really works very well to stop blockages & nasty smells. It takes about a week or 2 to work but once it starts working, you will no longer have problems.

BTW, I have no monetary association whatsoever with this product. As a former Facilities Manager, I frequently used this product (& other similar products) to prevent drain blockages & bad drain odours.

Your solution may be temporary at best if the drain in connected to the septic tank as many are (mine is), and without a P-trap (S-trap) the septic smell (methane gas) will come back up and quite possibly make some people very sick.

If you have any kind of access outside the house before the pipe hits the tank, you can possibly install a P or S trap creating a barrier so the smell/gas doesn't make it back up through the drain......

I'm just confused why he sets his own dates for surrendering?

Good Reading JR, thanks

pools are not that hard to build, i've designed and built 6 pools and all are fine.

i wrote about some of the basics in my book, 'how to buy land and build a house in thailand', just do it yourself, a 5x10m pool should cost you less than 500k depending on location (don't know much about Afghanistan however, OP's location)

I would also be interested in the method used for the 6 pools you designed and built.

and your statement, "pools are not that hard to build" may be appropriate for someone who has built them. same as a house, dog house or rocket. .....

Not sure if it's ok to post this, but....thought I'd warn anyone who has any intention on doing business with Khon Kaen Notebook at Oasis and the new Central. "Think twice or go somewhere else"

I took my IBM in for what seemed a simple repair and after more than a month got a call to pick it up, "it's fixed".

To my horror, they obviously dropped it and cracked the screen frame and the body and didn't/wouldn't assume any responsibility for it saying, "this is common with this model".

Now I can't use the pcmcia card reader at all as it's jammed shut and the original problem wasn't fixed at all......frikken idiots.