Fore Man

No-1 Deputy Prime Minister Chaovarat Chanweerakul will become caretaker prime minister pending a meeting of the caretaker Cabinet, PM's Office Ministers Sukhumpong Ngonkham said Tuesday.

He said the caretaker Cabinet would make a former decision as to who should be caretaker prime minister replacing disqualified Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat.

The Nation

And the caretaker Cabinet is loyal to whom?

Thanks SBK. That probably answers my question...

Any chance this can be removed before I'm anihilated with criticism? Oh well, bring on the wise cracks people...

Byoung2, don't feel lonely...I too needed some help understanding how to use TV Forum and it was indeed quickly granted by the support folks. But you'll just have to get used to all the sarcastic types out there who seem to have nothing better to do. They and their ilk seem to infest the forum users and you'll have to wade through pages of BS to get the core answers you need on most issues.

It was 10 degrees here in Mae Rim on Tuesday morning. A little colder than normal for this date. For TV members who are interested and have no heat in their homes, you may want to consider buying an electric space heater at places like HomePro--albeit expensive at about THB 6,500 but they work very well and can be easily moved from room-to-room. We bought one for my wife's family living in northern Nan Province and for the first time in decades they are comfortable at night. We first had to spell out explicitly the safety precautions when using the heater around draperies, bedding etc., but at least there is no danger from carbon monoxide poisoning as with kerosene or charcoal-fired devices.

Our home in Mae Rim has no fireplace but we seem to be OK at night by adding a summer weight cotton blanket under our bedspread...and wearing a sweater in the mornings until things warm up. But to those less fortunate Thai folks living out in the hills of northern Thailand, they can't afford to buy heaters or blankets, and it can easily fall below zero degrees Centigrade during cold spells. What bothers me is that every year there is a hue and cry to donate warm clothing and blankets for distribution to the poor; this continual annual demand makes me wonder if corrupt practices are present in this process as well? I can't believe the birth rate is accelerating so fast that we never seem to get well on provisions to these people. Perhaps they themselves are selling these donations after the cold snap ends?

And the winner of this year's convoluted logic medal is Air Force Commander-in-Chief ACM Itthaporn Supawong

The Air Force chief said the government had nothing to fear because it could win the next election again.

Thankfully, this man doesn't have much air capability in his air force or else he'd be dangerous.

Actually, their F-16 squadrons are pretty potent--mostly intended for CAS operations (Close Air Support) against a ground-based enemy, these fighters can be used in an air superiority role if the RTAF wants to call somebody's bluff and raise the ante a tad. Or they could be sortied out in SEAD/DEAD missions (Supression of Enemy Air Defenses/Destruction of Enemy Air Defenses). They can definitely do a lot of damage in repulsing an enemy attack or as a counterattack force to take out vital targets to end a hostile incursion.

In this Southeast Asian version of a Mexican Standoff we have now down at DM & Swampy, they would be of little use except to increase the fear and anxiety of the bad guys...a few low fly-bys would send a lot of these crybabies running home to their mamas and replacing soiled BVDs. Maybe a few loose rounds would find their way into parked FBG (F***ing Bad Guy) vehicles. If the merde really hit the venilateur, not many trucks, tuk tuks and cycles would be very useful after a motor park is strafed. If all this drama failed to work, perhaps the RTAF could simply bomb the daylights out of them with folded paper cranes...or better yet, 1 million liters of Red Dye No. 1

Oh man, why didn't I get reincarnated as a jet jockey!!

I just heard a report on BBC World News a few minutes ago that there is unconfirmed reports that the Prime Minister may have left the country for personal reasons.

Bizzare!

Maybe he needs to go to USA for medical treatment, or to HK for face to face instructions from BIL.

I can confirm that he is no longer at his Mae Rim compound. All the cars and vans have departed; police security is extremely light...2-3 patrolmen who paid us no mind. I have no idea where he went of course; only that he is not currently in Mae Rim.

[/size] What is an M79 grenade? It appears to be a type that requires a launching device.

Not that I am in the market for one, but where are they sold in Thailand and would expect the cost of grenade and launcher to be? The point I am trying to make is that who would have access to these sorts of weapons and the training in how to use them??

One turned up in a Phuket bust a year or so ago (launcher + ammo IIRC) so its not a massively complex piec3e of artillery or 'proof' of military assistance. If anything I think it looks obvious that the military are not the ones who will target the PAD.

<snip

[/size] What is an M79 grenade? It appears to be a type that requires a launching device.

Not that I am in the market for one, but where are they sold in Thailand and would expect the cost of grenade and launcher to be? The point I am trying to make is that who would have access to these sorts of weapons and the training in how to use them??

One turned up in a Phuket bust a year or so ago (launcher + ammo IIRC) so its not a massively complex piec3e of artillery or 'proof' of military assistance. If anything I think it looks obvious that the military are not the ones who will target the PAD.

An M-79 is a common infantry weapon that fires a special 40-mm grenade cartridge that must be loaded single-shot through the weapon's hinged breech...it is much like a military version of a big single-barrel shotgun, except the ammunition is an even more lethal exploding grenade instead of shotgun cartridge pellets that have a narrower dispersal pattern. It is an area weapon; not a pinpoint one. The Americans deployed them in Vietnam so it is nothing new. It has a working range of between 75 & 375 meters, and the projectile must travel at least 30-meters in order to properly arm itself for detonation at impact (with no intervening foliage, wires etc). It is not as devastating as an anti-personnel hand grenade though, but much more portable than say, a small mortar. I would expect that Royal Thai soldiers & marines are all schooled in how to fire the weapon during basic and/or advanced training. It features a sliding aiming post, that can be adjusted in 25-meter increments, so the only real issue in hitting a target is being able to sight on a target downrange in limited visibility...and being sure of the actual range. The same ammunition is usable for use in an M-203, which is a combined M-16 rifle (5.56-mm) and M-79 grenade launcher.

These weapons cannot be acquired normally by civilians, but most likely belong (or belonged) to military units and were illegally removed from their armories...where the weapons are not only secured in a double-locked facility, but are also chained and locked in special racks. In most world armies this sign-out process is not easy and requires a record of the exact time, date, unit of assignment and bearer's ID card number. Most militaries around the world also issue special weapons cards which must be surrendered at the time of withdrawal. Even then, the weapon cannot easily be signed-out by anyone casually desiring to do so and collusion would be required on the part of unit armorers..and perhaps others in the chain of command...especially if the unit was not scheduled to participate in small-arms training or qualification exercises. Units in combat operations have similar procedures but they are much abbreviated or the firearm is semi-permanently issued to the soldier/marine etc if the security situation demands immediate access.

In other words, you just don't grab an M-79 or M-203 off the rack and casually stroll back to your car with it, and then you would still need to lay hands on the munitions. I would daresay that transporting a weapon in a personal vehicle is also a military law violation in non-emergency circumstances. As in any other military, a unit arms room will have serial number accountability and visibility of all of its weapons that could be quickly audited to check on their safekeeping. All ammunition is normally maintained at a separate and secure storage area--referred to as an ammunition supply point in NATO parlance--and controls to withdraw these munitions is just as tedious, if not more so, than the weapons they are designed to be fired from. Are these M-79s/M-203s available through illegal, non-military (black market) sources in Thailand and its neighboring countries? I don't have the answer to that, but I would imagine in this region of the globe, almost anything is available for the right price...or purpose.

My wife was an RTA armorer in her early years...and confirms these procedures I have outlined are SOP...or were during her time.

Would one have to assume that government forces were behind an M-79 grenade attack? Again, it depends on the origin of the weapon, but I would find it hard to believe that a common thug could easily or quickly get his hands on one without help from a military insider. Without such assistance, a potential felon would need to illegally procure the weapon and its ammunition well in advance (felony offenses themselves I imagine) and bring them out for use when an opportunistic situation presented itself...as seen in recent tragic events. Another spectre for misuse is the notion that each and every weapon delivered to a Thai military unit might not be accounted for in auditable unit supply records...that a small quanity may be fenced off and held secretly and maintained by 'other personnel'. Could this dangerous idea be true in Thailand? It's entirely conjecture on my part and could be patently untrue. Let's sincerely hope it is untrue. In modern military forces elsewhere, weapon serial number accountability is conveyed to and audited by each successive higher chain of command all the way to the national service level using computerized recordkeeping means.

The mere fact that these lethal weapons are being brought into play--even without official sanctioning--to put down this insurrection by zealots among the pro-government faction is a serious matter and have escalated the chances for a tragic outcome exponentially. As in the PAD, there are other madmen about willing to commit murder to advance their master's cause. Watch your six. In the meanwhile, perhaps we ought to look at what George Orwell had to say about guns and democracy:

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." Some others have astutely proclaimed: "if you give a man a gun, you'd better watch him!" Both quotes are very apropos of the latest Troubles of Thailand (TOT), methinks.

Has anyone seen the government today? Have they made any statement?

The PM was involved in a good game of golf this morning in Chang Mai

The Police lost a few truckloads of riot gear, when a couple of grandmothers let the air out of the tires.

It is a weekend, so a lot of new protesters come to join the party.

Right now everything is on hold until the court hearing on Tuesday morning. Nobody is going to take a chance on not having a seat to set in when the music stops, and the PPP and other parties are desolved.

For real?!?

Definatly Yes..

Also Gen Chamlong (PAD) stated they were willing to negotiate with the PM anywhere but in Chang Mai. It had to be face to face not over the phone or video conferencing, but face to face....

Please back up your claim that the PM was playing golf today in CM. Do you have visual proof or are you just posturing? Remember that some of us live here in that particular area and may be on-scene witnesses to certain events....such as golf tournaments.

There is no leadership left.

Thaksin looked horrible in his youtube video. his is a broken and spent man with sleazy ringtones, nothing more to come from him

somchai is just hiding and useless waiting for thaksin to do something.

not sure what is up with the army?

democrats???

PAD Hannuman squad?

come on

where is the one leader who can unify the country?

Time to stand up.

As another poster in a different topic has wisely observed, it is time now for higher authority--those who truly have the power and respect to end this--to step in and make pronouncements on what will be done to end this miserable chapter in Thai history and allow its leaders and people to restore the Kingdom in the eyes of the world community. As we cannot continue pursuing and analyzing this aspect on this forum, then everything we say or think short of that is truly a waste of time and energy. Name-calling and generalizations about each other's races, citizenship and beliefs is childish behavior and all posters with such thoughts on their minds need to simmer down and show mutual respect. In the end, it is the Thai who will figure out how to restore order in this nation, and we farangs should be thinking more about what the immediate and long-term effects are, and what will be on what is playing out now in front of our eyes...their repercussions on our way of life here. There is a wealth of experience among the older TV members--who have seen it all at one time or another in Thailand--that we should draw upon and share with the less fortunate chaps who tend to let their emotions dictate their thinking and posting. This is the real value of TV IMHO.

I am not new to the TV but have never properly understood what a 'pnned' thread really is....could you please give a quick idea? Thanks.

The forum/thread is "pinned" to the top of the list, indendent from the other threads which fluctuate their positions in the list by activity levels. This is my understanding at least. Closing it off to extraneous banter keeps it on point for communicating critical updates only.

I think this is the perfect example of when to use pinned/closed threads.

Mods - please support.

Thanks kindly; that makes sense.

Bearing in mind what is going on in Thailand, and the PM being holed up on the golf course, does anyone know if the competition has gone ahead?

Iain

Yes, the tourney is in progress.

I am not new to the TV but have never properly understood what a 'pnned' thread really is....could you please give a quick idea? Thanks.

A passing thought...even if the National Police are successful in eradicating the PAD's hired hands that took over the airports, I would not bet that these facilities will be open for normal business anytime soon. Unless the raid is swiftly and violently prosecuted with overwhelming force, there is a good chance that most of the airport infrastructure will be mutilated or destroyed by the vandals. These crazed thugs will stop at nothing to break everything they can before the tear gas or rubber bullets force them away. By definition, the clearance operation itself will cause damage. Count on heavy glass breakage and quite possibly fires that are accidentally or deliberately started. All of the airports concessions will be vandalized or heavily damaged as well. This could be real messy both in terms of human misery and collateral physical damage.

I see that TG is going to set up alternate operations at U-Tapao so that should help provide interim airport operations. U-Tapao does not have the necessary infrastructure to handle passengers and baggage of the magnitude needed, but it is a start on the road to recovery.

As for the operations this evening, again the keys are to project overwhelming force, and do it swiftly and make it sufficiently violent...make the announcement to clear immediately or be prepared to shed a lot of tears and possibly blood. Give them an adequate suspense time to clear the premises and then open up if there is further resistance. If the opposition attempts to repulse the police operation with anything other than fists or nonlethal weapons, it's time to draw ball ammunition, lock and load and change the ROE while underway. They had their chance but blew it; now they are common criminals and terrorists attempting to usurp or defy government authority. If the police fail to mount this correctly, it will be another useless line drawn in the sand and bring Thailand closer to the spectre of a full and brutal military takeover. Yes, I am retired military and in most cases abhor the blatant use of force but that's the way I see it.

God and Buddha bless their miserable souls; the little, common people sucked into these 'peaceful' demonstrations have been cajoled and hoodwinked into a disaster in the making. No matter what the outcome, the PAD ringleaders themselves deserve nothing less than life sentences for insurrection and civil terrorism.

A few years ago, my street-smart, savyy Thai wife was a passenger on a public (government) highway bus traveling between Nan and Bangkok. When she arrived at Morchit early in the morning, she was shocked to find that her expensive bracelet had been removed from her wrist without her awareness She vaguely recalled that someone waved something in her face late at night during the journey. Most likely a sleeping gas mist. Luckily, our US-bought theft coverage reimbursed us for the bracelet--worth about US$2,000 (it was not a Thai baht bracelet). I had taken the care to have the item appraised in the USA and we had full replacement coverage.

The incident shows that it is not only foreigners who are targeted on buses and it is not always the bus crew perpertuating the crime. It can certainly be done by nefarious fellow passengers...their cheap fare is nothing compared to the potential riches they can derive. Tell your overseas friends who plan to travel here and take budget forms of transportation to obtain good insurance coverage before they depart their homeland. And to remove all valuables from stowed luggage and to secure it or seclude on their bodies in some way that cannot be violated. I concur that taking the bus is the last form of public transport I would ever recommend. There are simply too many sad tales such as cited on this thread and in previous posts.

This particular happenstance is not an overall condemnation of the LOS but is a reflection that crime will occur whenever and wherever the means, motive and opportunity are present to create the conditions for it to occur. It is however, a poor reflection on Thai National Police and the weak or nonexistent vetting of bus crews. Shame on them and shame on the TAT for failing to take effective preventive measures.

I am based in Mae Rim, Chiang Mai (10-12 km north of the city in a gated golf course community). We have been using JI-Net over TTT since 2005, but have an older business package which has grown too pricey in these days. Consequently I am looking for a new package, hopefully faster than the 512/256 speeds we have now...and definitely well under the THB 6,000 pricetag my company pays now. For that price we are on a 5:1 subscriber line and there are currently no other subscribers on our circuit. I might have an outtage once a month that lasts for an hour or two; often I have discovered that a cold reset of all devices gets service back up...and that the ISP was not at fault.

I connect my incoming telephone cable (downstream of an ADSL splitter) to my XyZEL ADSL router. I route the CAT-5 cable from the ADSL router to a nearby Ethernet switch containing 4 ports, then redirect the signal from that switch to an Apple Airport Express set up as a wireless base station (which networks with 4 other AX routers designated as range extenders--we stream music throughout the house in this manner and can roam with our laptops nearly everywhere--even outside on our sundeck). Another CAT-5 output serves my daughter's remote bedroom via her own wired capability, as the wireless signal is not strong enough for her needs. A final port is used to connect a backup CAT-5 line to my office PC, which is normally served by the Apple-enabled 802.11n (b/g capable) network. This provides us with a dual WiFi & wired system and our guests can make use of the WiFi network or simply plug into the daughter's CAT-5 cable upstairs if their PC is not equipped with a WiFi radio.

I also like JI-Net's overall consistency and reliability; their help desk is good, but you can spend considerable time on hold waiting for an English-speaking tech. Anybody have any suggestions for me on a better ISP package? Please remember I live outside of CM and only have TTT service...and from what I have heard, I don't need to even think about using TOT. I have considered CAT Hinet but don't think they can deliver a cable to me out here...and if they could it may be cost-prohibitive. Thanks!

I have had the same maddening experience, repeatedly. We generally see this occur when a 4 -5-some group of Thais are allowed to start their round on #10 as we are completing #9 and they jump on the course right in front of us. Totally inconsiderate and they bully the caddies into letting them start on #10 because #1 is backed up. We get the same treatment...total ignorance that they just broke a cardinal rule of golf etiquette. The management generally won't lift a finger about slow play by Thai golfers (racial superiority; after all, it's their country and lowly Farangs simply have to wait); ditto for other Oriental golfers (money talks) and course marshalls are like cops....you can never find one when you need one. Try acting like this in the UK or the USA and you will be escorted off the premises.

I have done two things in my earlier days...neither particularly smart...and that is to tee off while they are still mucking around on the fairway; or hitting my approach shot when they are still putting out. This can backfire and start WWIII and possibly get me booted out of the country (who knows, that Thai group ahead may be a bunch of off-duty immigration officers,or you may hit the longest and most accurate 7 iron of your life and hit somebody), so I am prone nowadays to swallow my anger and practice chipping near the tee box, joke with the caddies etc to kill time. If I am alone I play two balls because there is nothing else to do.

The other thought that comes to mind is that you are wrong if you do not personally walk up the group and smile, politely asking them if you could play through. This is something that we tend to beg off of doing (pride, I suppose) and ask the caddies to do it for us. I believe we ought to stand up and do the asking ourselves. Sometimes a little civility works wonders here and they certainly are caught by surprise. If they say 'mai chai', then FTVM and either go around them or get behind again and play slowly yourself.

Thailand's rules of golf etiquette are rather different than any place else in Asia, except perhaps in China or Burma. Rude behavior is the norm and it boils down to a gonad thing...machismo is alive and well here and all Thai men have always observed the 'me first' mentality in everything they do...on the highways or on the golf course. Why should we really expect Thai golfers to be any different? Their behavior would get them thrown off of any good international course but this is their country and they play by their own 'my dcik is bigger than yours' code of conduct.

I guess it really means that we can: 1) put up with this lack of consideration and chill out, or 2) seethe inside and have a sihtty round or 3) stomp off in anger. I have had my best rounds when selecting option #1. Life's too short; it's your choice.

I use Jasmine as my ISP to deliver ADSL over a TTT phone line. Rarely have had a problem in 37 months. The catch is that I pay a premium for my business account and I suppose that is why I have steady and reliable service....in Mae Rim nonetheless. My neighbor a few doors away uses TOT and says it is only serviceable for 30 minutes a day--in the very early morning hours. But he pays a fraction of what I do. I guess one gets what they pay for. Has anyone else had similar experiences with JI-net?

I've never heard of Jasmine. Can you expand on what level of service they provide for you and at what charge? How is the dependability and customer service? Is the speed constant no matter the hour or day? TIA

Sorry to be late in replying; went to JP on a biz trip. Jasmine, AKA JI-Net, sells me an ADSL package running THB 6K per month that delivers 512/128. Actual speeds are typically 400/100 and are fairly constant. The package is limited to 5 subscribers on my line and I don't believe anyone else has bought into it (especially at that price). But it is always on and always reliable. Maybe we lose connectivity for a few hours a month due to n FO trunk link problem down in the BKK area. I believe that Jasmine operates an office in Panthip Plaza CM.I believe you can get very good deals now at even faster speeds especially if you live inside the Superhighway or in a well-established moobaan. Good luck.

I use Jasmine as my ISP to deliver ADSL over a TTT phone line. Rarely have had a problem in 37 months. The catch is that I pay a premium for my business account and I suppose that is why I have steady and reliable service....in Mae Rim nonetheless. My neighbor a few doors away uses TOT and says it is only serviceable for 30 minutes a day--in the very early morning hours. But he pays a fraction of what I do. I guess one gets what they pay for. Has anyone else had similar experiences with JI-net?

I play Ping G2 irons and they are about 2 years old. I have played about 180 rounds of golf with these clubs; they all have Ping graphite shafts (TFC-100's; regular flex). I have never had a smidgen of a problem with my shafts and I hit 'em pretty hard. I had a friend buy a brand new set of G5 irons last year from the 'authorized dealer' in Chiang Mai and almost immediately he started having delamination or splitting problems with is 3-iron down where the shaft meets the hosel. He began to question the authenticity of his clubs. I know Ping owners who purchased their clubs (like I did) in the USA and have never reported these same problems with their shafts. So my question to TV readers is: "are Ping clubs sold in Thailand really REAL?". I know...they come with the authentic-looking Ping spec label and decal wrapped around the shaft....but ARE THEY REAL? How do we positively know? I am interested in buying some G10 hybrids when they become available but want to make darn sure I am getting authentic Ping clubs.

As a seasoned long-term resident of CM, and a thankful emigre from the total lack of order in Pattaya, I have to agree with an earlier poster about going with the flow. A new (Farang) driver goes through phases here in CM or elsewhere in Thailand. First you are scared to even get behind the wheel of a car, especially if you came from a country that drives on the right-hand side of the road. The next phase is learning to master your fear of driving here. This doesn't take long. The third phase is expressing disbelief and anger at the seemingly unbelievable antics of Thai drivers (or rude Farangs). Believe me, if it is possible the Thai will do it. Don't be surprised and don't get angry. Our arrogance is not welcome here and can get you in a lot of trouble. More on this shortly. The final phase is acceptance of the way things really are here. Chaotic to be sure, but there is a sense of order in that chaos.

Now my own personal vignette. I was driving happily along on the Airport Expressway in the direction of the airport, intending to exit at the Central Plaza and do some shopping. I was cruising along in the fast lane keeping up with the guy in front of me, when an obnoxious young Thai man zoomed up behind me in a beat-up 'rice rocket' (Japanese sedan of questionable vintage, upkeep and make), madly attempting to pass. He swerved into the slow lane and then tried to cut me off...which I naturally responded to by speeding up and refusing him the opportunity (this was before I entered Phase 4--Acceptance). He then dogged me to the Hang Dong Road intersection, where I was forced to stop for the red light; I intended to continue straight, cross over Hang Dong Road and turn left into the Plaza's parking entrance up ahead. While we were waiting for the light to change, the man jumped out of his car, ran over to the drivers side window of my brand new Camry (which was closed and he couldn't see me well due to the tinted film). He then shouted at me in rapid-fire Thai, probably demanding me to lower the window, with clenched fists. To which I smartly declined. The only way I would have opened that window is if I had a 12-gauge shotgun to poke into his face and calm him down (and that dumb act probably would have resulted in a tragedy to one or both of us had I really proffered a gun). He then slammed both palms against my window glass in frustration and stomped off. The moral here is that I was completely wrong, despite his rude driving behavior. He could have easily been carrying a tire iron or worse yet, his own gun. He didn't do any damage to my car which was a stroke of luck for me. Had he had a gun, I probably wouldn't be authoring this post now. Believe me he was so angry he was spitting like a mad cobra. I believe that was the same day I decided to enter Phase 4! Play their game and let the fools, hotheads and road hogs have their way. It ain't worth it friends. Life is too short. Enjoy driving here but play by their rules.

I play in CM for the most part and the rule of thumb here is THB 200 for 18. The caddy also makes 160 out of the THB 200 caddy fee charged along with the greens fee. So a total of THB 360, or roughly $11 for 4 hours of easy work. But after playing here for over 18 months, I decided to quit taking my luck with whatever caddy turned up next and picked my own dedicated caddy, who works for me every time I play at our home course...which is 3 times weekly. This process is called 'booking'. Because she is a terrific caddy and very good at reading greens, I pay her THB 250 as a normal tip. If I have a particularly bad day, I still pay her THB 250. My fault not hers. If I quit early and go home after 9 holes, I pay her THB 250...not her fault. If I have a particularly good day, I'll tip her more. I'd rather not lose her to a better paying client, so along with the tip I have learned to become jai yen yen and we laugh a lot....not taking stuff too seriously. I am amazed at the vast array of farang hotheads out there who boil over with every little inconvenience or bad shot. My advice is to listen to the caddy's advice and simply factor it in with your own good judgement. The final decision on which club to use or which line to putt is yours. Don't EVER blame her if you manage to screw it up please. We have a very infamous Farang playing regularly here who, after making a bad shot, blamed it on the caddy and shouted at her, causing her to cry. He also swung the club in fury and nearly struck her with it. What an absolute meathead and his behavior unfortunately colors Thai perceptions of how farangs will act. Most of these gals are cheerful, do their best and compared to our standard of living, live in miserable conditions. After all, what does a THB 200-300 tip really mean to you versus to her? Lighten up all you arrogant knuckleheads please and enjoy golf in a unique culture. We are guests in a foreign country and are expected to kick in a little more geld for just about everything. Golf tips included. As someone said earlier--go with the flow....or leave! Endeth the epistle.

In CM check out Spike (American) or Khun Kitti (Thai) who can be found at either the Green Valley driving range or at the Airport driving range across from Airport Central Plaza. Cost is a lot less expensive than Bangkok area pros and their instruction is terrific. My only problem was finding time to see either of them. They definitely helped me to play better golf and move up to a new game level. Broke 90 thanks to their coaching. Excellent short game assistance and they keep you focused on the wedges until you are ready to move up to the longer clubs. They are booked heavily and have a few favorite customers who probably pay considerably more than the normal fee of THB 6,500 per month (gets you up to 15 x 60-minute lessons). Spike tends to work with Farangs, while Kitti works with locals and kids.

I find the price of a round in chiang mai unfairly expensive, especially when compared to playing in bangkok. I play nearly all my golf at chiang mai lamphun course or at the gymkhana; i'm a member at both which accordingly makes the price fine. But we are lucky enough in one respect, that all the courses are most attractive to be playing at, yet i rarely get to them.

I'm posting this thread up to see if posters can collate a list of rainy season prices for the courses in chiang mai. And any conditions that may be in place, and when the promotion prices expire.

Also, does anyone know of any methods to get discounted golf at normal times at any of the courses?

I have not found any really great deals at local courses....unless you are a member. Some clubs have stopped issuing new memberships--such as Lanna--to foreigners. Lanna is simply oversubscribed, except on Wednesdays when Courses 1 and 2 are closed for maintenance, leaving the only choice Course 3 played twice (and IMHO a very nice experience). Mae Jo will sell you an annual membership that is arranged in 3 tiers....the most expensibe tier costs you THB 5,000 including the THB 1,500 annual registration fee. That level means you can play for reduced greens fees all year until the membership expires. The discount at that level gets you a weekday greens fee of THB 500 plus a mandatory THB 200 caddy fee (which must be paid in cash). A walk-in farang would have to pay about THB 1,200 + caddy fee. Play Mae Jo frequently enough and you can save money. It is a tough but beautiful course. Enjoy the walk and don't agonize over your score . Another way is to play at most clubs is with a member and that can get some discount off the normal published greens fees. But not a whole lot. I am a member at GVCC and a guest from the USA had to pay THB 1,640 last Saturday....my greens fee is only THB 500. I have tried without success to get discounts at other area courses....and am told that nothing is available. You can blame the Japanese and Korean invasion of CM golf for that circumstance. Last year during the off season, most local courses joined in a special promotion rate of THB 960 (plus caddy). This promotion has not been reoffered for 2007. My wife called CM Highlands and was told that they have discount rates, especially if you go after 12 noon. Good luck dodging the T-storms that will soon come later in the day though. Hope this helps but please bear in mind it reflects only my understanding and personal experience.

Regarding the Retirement Visa. Last week, August 2nd, 2007, I reported to the Chiang Mai Immigration office to do my 90 day sign-in. While I was there, I decided to ask abouut the requirements for updating my retirement visa (for the first time) at the end of this month. I was told that all I needed was a (single) photo and the bank report. Also, copies of my passport pages related to the previous application along with the necessary first few pages. I asked if an HIV or doctors report was also necessary and the reply was, do the passport copies and a photo and fill out the form and bring a copy of the bank report that confirmed 800K inthe bank.

I will (of course) bring all the other info, but they were very polite and insisted on the minimal info. For what it's worth, I was very impressed. Will see what occures when I actually attempt to acquire said update.

FYI: I have resided in Thailand for 15 years. Cheers and Chok dee, dap

I posted the following item to another thread on the Forum on 9 Aug; it was mis-placed there and would be better off if placed here:

"I went to Chiang Mai Immigration today (9th Aug) to extend my retirement visa (3rd annual extension). We (Thai wife and I) were in and out in 70 minutes and there was a healthy backlog of applicants waiting when we arrived at 8:40. Despite this, the procedure was painless...providing you bring all the needed documents, to wit: bank book, bank letter certifying your balance and also certifying that the funds originated outside of Thailand, passport, TM 7, Application for a Multiple Re-entry Permit (needed in my case due to my frequent travels), copy of rental lease (we are renting this year), original of landlord's signed ID card, copy of landlord's House Registration, THB 1900 for visa renewal and THB 3800 for Multiple Re-entry Permit. I had copied my passport tile page, current Multiple Re-entry Permit page and current immigration arrival stamp page. These were needed but the officer asked me to copy the latest TM6 stapled in my passport and its adjoining page showing the Re-entry Permit--as one copy page. They have a photocopy service a few steps away and that took all of 30 seconds to accomplish. I gave them copies of my 5-year Thai driving license and my U.S. military retired ID. The latter two documents are not required but the officer wanted them nonetheless. We were treated politely, deferentially and with excellent, quick service. One could not have asked for anything better. According to the Police captain and her senior sargeant who handled my case, they both stated that the renewal process is completely unchanged this year (for 800K THB renewals; I did not show evidence of pensions) and that process is very quick IF you bring the correct documentation. And yes, all of the interpersonal stuff, your dress and mannerisms weigh importantly too, but if you come in short of the required paperwork and still act politely to them, they will probably still ask you just as politely to go home and retrieve it. My advice: go into Immigration a week or two prior to sort out exactly what you will need; you'll then you'll be able to arrive on your renewal day with no hassles or unexpected events. I hope this is helpful to applicants who are planning to renew their retirement visas soon. I can't speak for other venues, but Chiang Mai offers superb, uncomplicated and professional service."

It's simple to manage and avoids the whole can of worms involved in income verification.

So, tell me folks, what am I missing here?

I agree totally. Even if this means the loss of a few hundred dollars/pounds/whatever, it's worth it to avoid the hassle. Also, if you don't stay in Bangkok, you're going to spend money for hotels and travel expenses while getting embassy and MFA endorsements anyway.

Also, in the past couple of years I've been using baht that I bought at far more favorable exchange rates. Obviously that could go the other way, but over the course of a year you have some leeway as to when you choose to make those two or three transfers based on the current exchange rates.

Pardon me...reading all this with rapt interest....but where on the ThaiVisa forum can I go to learn exactly what is required now to get the MFA endorsement? I am about to renew my retirement visa and can qualify on either account--800K THB or 65K monthly pension. I live in Chiang Mai. From my personal vantage point, I'd prefer whatever method is the easist to employ and which requires the least hassle. Anyone have specific recent experience in CM?

We have not seen any reports from Cm that they require a certification of the Embassy income letter by the MFA.In any cases the requirement for the certification has been 'suggested' as a new requirement after October 1 and it hs been mentionned in Pattaya by the local British Counsul. Wether it will be nationwide we do not know.

At the present timeboth route income and balance or a combination are about the same hassle if you can get your income letter easy.

The balance route should be easier at this stage as there is no trip or cost for the income letter invloved only your bank records should be enough.

Some immigration offices even in that case will require a letter from the embassy certifying your adress.... but maybe not in CM. Check with them first is the best adviceif you live localy.

Thanks to RichardEllis and to Krub for their advice. I am going to CM Immigration this week to renew my retirement visa--3d extension. In the first extension in 2005--done at Bangkok via an agent--all I needed was the bank letter, photos, medical check and my passbook...plus some extra baht to ease things. That minor baakshish was not needed of course but it made it all pretty painless. I was in and out of the building in an hour. In 2006, which I accomplished in CM, the Immigration officer was easy to talk to and I had no problems at all. Took me about an hour. She only was interested in the bank letter plus a copy of my annual rental lease which verified my local address...plus the medical check which as I understand is no longer required. There was no requirement for an embassy letter last year attesting to my address. In preparation for my renewal on Thursday, I went to my bank today to get the new funds letter and they certified in explicit terms that my funds all were deposited originally by W/T. The balance has not dropped below 800K for over 3 years. Since I qualify on funds alone, I am going to try to ignore the income route this year.

This is all getting a little weird as nobody seems to have authoritative information on what is absolutely required....I suspect this is because Immigration authorities have issued clear requirements on what it takes to renew a Retirement Visa but many local officers around the Kingdom apply their own unique spin on those requirements, depending on the interpersonal vibes (or clashes) that occur between the Farang applicant and the interviewing official....or perhaps the applicant's SO, wife or agent. I play golf occasionally with a retired Immigration police general; he told me one day that 'there are so many rude Farangs who come to our offices and are poorly dressed too; it would be better for them to leave our country if they dislike it so much or fail to respect it". I could only agree with him as I too have seen much of the same. Scruffy-looking, threadbare, shorts and sandals-clad types with arrogant, 'jai ronn' attitudes who strut around as if they own this country, not vice versa.

Only my upcoming experience later this week will tell...I could be well eating crow by Saturday...but it has been my experience that being humble, friendly, non-adversarial, non-confrontational, using a smartly-dressed and friendly Thai wife to your advantage, over-preparing with what may prove to be unneeded paperwork, and taking the pains to dress for the occasion can mean all the difference in getting that visa extension easily or not so easily. We always have to bear in mind that we are guests here and are dealing with people that have, for the most part, decent personalities, but who are also very sensitive to heavy-handed foreigners demanding this and that as if it was a birthright. We'll see if I am right or wrong and I will make a post then to inform readers of what transpired. Please accept my apologies in advance for appearing to be pedantic but sometimes the posters who declaim that the the sky is falling and/or who belittle our Thai hosts just get the best of me. This site needs to stay rooted to what is real and not hypothetical or imagined. We rely on it for a source of valid information that is not easily available elsewhere and in English. Thanks for hearing me out and good luck as you deal with your own situations.

Follow-on to above post:

I went to Chiang Mai Immigration today to extend my retirement visa (3rd annual extension). We were in and out in 70 minutes and there was a healthy backlog of applicants waiting when we arrived at 8:40. Despite this, the procedure was painless...providing you bring all the needed documents, to wit: bank book, bank letter certifying your balance and also certifying that the funds originated outside of Thailand, passport, TM 7, Application for a Multiple Re-entry Permit (needed in my case due to my frequent travels), copy of rental lease (we are renting this year), original of landlord's signed ID card, copy of landlord's House Registration, THB 1900 for visa renewal and THB 3800 for Multiple Re-entry Permit. I had copied my passport tile page, current Multiple Re-entry Permit page and current immigration arrival stamp page. These were needed but the officer asked me to copy the latest TM6 stapled in my passport and its adjoing page showing the Re-entry Permit--as one copy page. They have a photocopy service a few steps away and that took all of 30 seconds to accomplish. I gave them copies of my 5-year Thai driving license and my U.S. military retired ID. The latter two documents are not required but the officer wanted them nonetheless. We were treated politely, deferentially and with excellent, quick service. One could not have asked for anything better. According to the Police captain and her senior sargeant who handled my case, they both stated that the renewal process is completely unchanged this year (for 800K THB renewals; I did not show evidence of pensions) and that process is very quick IF you bring the correct documentation. And yes, all of the interpersonal stuff, your dress and mannerisms weigh importantly too, but if you come in short of the required paperwork and still act politely to them, they will probably still ask you just as politely to go home and retrieve it. My advice: go into Immigration a week or two prior to sort out exactly what you will need; you'll then you'll be able to arrive on your renewal day with no hassles or unexpected events. I hope this is helpful to applicants who are planning to renew their retirement visas soon. I can't speak for other venues, but Chiang Mai offers superb, uncomplicated and professional service.

It's simple to manage and avoids the whole can of worms involved in income verification.

So, tell me folks, what am I missing here?

I agree totally. Even if this means the loss of a few hundred dollars/pounds/whatever, it's worth it to avoid the hassle. Also, if you don't stay in Bangkok, you're going to spend money for hotels and travel expenses while getting embassy and MFA endorsements anyway.

Also, in the past couple of years I've been using baht that I bought at far more favorable exchange rates. Obviously that could go the other way, but over the course of a year you have some leeway as to when you choose to make those two or three transfers based on the current exchange rates.

Pardon me...reading all this with rapt interest....but where on the ThaiVisa forum can I go to learn exactly what is required now to get the MFA endorsement? I am about to renew my retirement visa and can qualify on either account--800K THB or 65K monthly pension. I live in Chiang Mai. From my personal vantage point, I'd prefer whatever method is the easist to employ and which requires the least hassle. Anyone have specific recent experience in CM?

We have not seen any reports from Cm that they require a certification of the Embassy income letter by the MFA.In any cases the requirement for the certification has been 'suggested' as a new requirement after October 1 and it hs been mentionned in Pattaya by the local British Counsul. Wether it will be nationwide we do not know.

At the present timeboth route income and balance or a combination are about the same hassle if you can get your income letter easy.

The balance route should be easier at this stage as there is no trip or cost for the income letter invloved only your bank records should be enough.

Some immigration offices even in that case will require a letter from the embassy certifying your adress.... but maybe not in CM. Check with them first is the best adviceif you live localy.

Thanks to RichardEllis and to Krub for their advice. I am going to CM Immigration this week to renew my retirement visa--3d extension. In the first extension in 2005--done at Bangkok via an agent--all I needed was the bank letter, photos, medical check and my passbook...plus some extra baht to ease things. That minor baakshish was not needed of course but it made it all pretty painless. I was in and out of the building in an hour. In 2006, which I accomplished in CM, the Immigration officer was easy to talk to and I had no problems at all. Took me about an hour. She only was interested in the bank letter plus a copy of my annual rental lease which verified my local address...plus the medical check which as I understand is no longer required. There was no requirement for an embassy letter last year attesting to my address. In preparation for my renewal on Thursday, I went to my bank today to get the new funds letter and they certified in explicit terms that my funds all were deposited originally by W/T. The balance has not dropped below 800K for over 3 years. Since I qualify on funds alone, I am going to try to ignore the income route this year.

This is all getting a little weird as nobody seems to have authoritative information on what is absolutely required....I suspect this is because Immigration authorities have issued clear requirements on what it takes to renew a Retirement Visa but many local officers around the Kingdom apply their own unique spin on those requirements, depending on the interpersonal vibes (or clashes) that occur between the Farang applicant and the interviewing official....or perhaps the applicant's SO, wife or agent. I play golf occasionally with a retired Immigration police general; he told me one day that 'there are so many rude Farangs who come to our offices and are poorly dressed too; it would be better for them to leave our country if they dislike it so much or fail to respect it". I could only agree with him as I too have seen much of the same. Scruffy-looking, threadbare, shorts and sandals-clad types with arrogant, 'jai ronn' attitudes who strut around as if they own this country, not vice versa.

Only my upcoming experience later this week will tell...I could be well eating crow by Saturday...but it has been my experience that being humble, friendly, non-adversarial, non-confrontational, using a smartly-dressed and friendly Thai wife to your advantage, over-preparing with what may prove to be unneeded paperwork, and taking the pains to dress for the occasion can mean all the difference in getting that visa extension easily or not so easily. We always have to bear in mind that we are guests here and are dealing with people that have, for the most part, decent personalities, but who are also very sensitive to heavy-handed foreigners demanding this and that as if it was a birthright. We'll see if I am right or wrong and I will make a post then to inform readers of what transpired. Please accept my apologies in advance for appearing to be pedantic but sometimes the posters who declaim that the the sky is falling and/or who belittle our Thai hosts just get the best of me. This site needs to stay rooted to what is real and not hypothetical or imagined. We rely on it for a source of valid information that is not easily available elsewhere and in English. Thanks for hearing me out and good luck as you deal with your own situations.