Red Queen

An interesting point of view, considering the country's economy was in worse shape as a result of political turmoil directly related to the political unrest caused by the PAD. (not that it didn't need to be said).

Let's not forget the mess the economy was in with Yingsy refusing to pay farmers and confirm disbursement of government funds for much anticipated infrastructure projects. Which would have given finances and a confidence boost to domestic industries.

The tourism industry took a massive hit because of the Suthep/Yingsy spat. And the country was crawling along, mainly on the back of exports.

Exports, reliant on China and Europe are down now (not as a result of the current economic policies but because the world in general teeters on the brink of a very large depression).

Since the current government came to power, there has been a rebound in tourism, but they can't do a lot to affect the export sector as that relies on trade partner economies being in good shape. The Baht has been high and that discourages manufacturing in the country. The baht has now fallen in value. The domestic economy is mired by household debt.

But career diplomat Kasit (not an economist) has the answer which is...

"Since the current government came to power there has been a rebound in tourism"

Are you kidding??? Speak to any Thai involved in the tourism industry and there has been an enormous fall in Tourism. Get your facts right don't rely on government properganda misleading all, or so they think.

The old "talk to any Thai" excuse. I love that belief structure that some cling too because facts obscure their agenda. It is like some think global economists should go and talk to a local to gauge economic indicators in the country.

Facts. The PTP's greatest friend. Beliefs, their dearest friend.

Can you present facts to state what you "believe"? I can guarantee you can't because to argue it is to argue that terrorism has a positive effect on tourism. The facts in the below graph prove otherwise and shows you are wrong.

Interestingly it is a Democrat that has criticised the Junta as well. The Junta's biggest fear is solidarity between old waring parties like the Dems and the one principle supporters.

And the chart was produced by which independent source?

But but but... they'd never lie, would they?

somehow i think if the US will put a embargo up the EU will follow .... and then they would be <deleted> and they know that.

Somehow I think the US will put up a lot of bluff and bluster.

The strategic importance of Thailand, given the rise of China, far exceeds the political will to actually do something - the military know this and the US policies will adapt to suit.

And what pray, is this amazing strategic importance? Facts mind, no generalisations, no fantasy, nominalisations. no straw men and no diversions. You made a claim so let's see if you can justify it.

I wished that the Thai Air representatives, would take this opportunity to come

to Calgary Alberta, Canada, and start a new route from Bangkok to Calgary and return.

We could use some good competition for our Air Canada airline. I have always enjoyed

the great Thai Air service in the past and would certainly fly on Thai Air in the

future, if only it would fly to our city.

The way Thai airlines are going, Calgary will be about all they have left. Keep your fingers crossed.

Some people are not knowledge or oberservent enough to see the massive truck heading straight at them on the highway. They end up contributing nothing futher to mankind of any use or reliability. But then this man may have been the best avaliable from the choices presented to be elected president, or did he inherit the job?

This is Thailand, he probably bought it.

I can see this getting very messy very quickly. If Suthep starts to try and dictate what the Junta does there will be a massive clash of egos between him and Prayut.

Interesting that Kasit has joined Suthep in this new crusade and is already stirring the pot:

@PKinbangkok

"Kasit (Dem), chastising Prayuth: Your economic team is all talk! Open your ears and for once listen to your elders! https://t.co/EiMIjUFDOr"

Can't think of anything more entertaining, It's not often you get to say som nam na to both sides of a fist-fight.

Roll on the day, the Thai people could only benefit (even i's after a brief period of turmoil).

If he's not fearful, not even a little bit then he's just not been paying attention.

The community of first-world democracies takes a dim view of its younger brothers in the 3rd-world misbehaving and thinking everyone else are idiots who'll swallow any old manure.

I have devoted 5 years of my life trying to improve the education and knowledge of both children, students, teachers and adults as a teacher and a foreigner living in Thailand.

Devoted eh? Impressive.

So, you worked for nothing - right?

Otherwise you spent 5 years earning a living and just happened to be teaching kids rather then digging holes. Quite trying to impress people.

End of.

I think it would be fair to say that Thailand has exactly the education system it wants. Thinking that it will change shows a lack of understanding as to what it is supposed to achieve. Same applies to most public education back home.

Absolutely true. Keep 'em poor, keep 'em stupid. That way you keep 'em cheap.

Jesus wept.

The problem with Thai education is not foreign teachers, it's with Thai teachers and the educational 'Sir Humpreys' that drive their highly stupid and incompetent 3rd-world policies.

This topic is starting t look like a perpetuum mobilae..much blabla but nothing changes.

Critical thinking about tabets, subs purchase plans, rice schemes and many many more is non existing in the Kingdom.

You're right of course, but in Thailand, what counts is coming up with and shouting loudly about grandiose initiatives, not actually executing them.

That's not the Thai way unless it involves more money for the military and/or more opportunities for corruption in government.

Is the economic slump in Thailand the reason they reversed their decision to buy 2 submarine's from China?

Thailand is the only country without submarines in SEA especially that it's military is second only to that of Indonesia. Thailand had submarines before, and should have now. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-n_h6YPYouOA/VRIzBwjGb-I/AAAAAAAAGGs/K0HWSkpi28E/s1600/Thai%2Bcommissioning.jpg

I think that is almost 100% BS. The advent of ASEAN and the AEC, mean that there are no credible military threats against Thailand, except for (possibly) militant Islamism and China. The second more plausible than the first. A whole fleet of modern submarines would not help in either instance. And that's assuming Thais can be taught not to bump into things, like the ocean floor or large cliffs. We've all seen how successful that was with the Thai Air Force.

Thailand buying submarines is an exercise in self-aggrandisement, and that alone. That ought to be enough for the Thai people to clean out the military Augean stables, but I doubt it will be, these people will sleep-walk themselves into their own oblivion.

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Labour abuse is everywhere in Thailand. Cambodians and Burmese can work a lot for nearly no money, and Thais are so lazy to do the same job, they're incompetent and irresponsible. They can't do any thing that looks low. Thais are acustommed to this and will not submit to hard work. It's in the society.

I'm so used to see it on a daily basis on the construction industry. Thai workers are the worst, always having money problems, so many debts, gambling and drinking, always complaining not enough money. And still lazy as hell and not trustworthy.

While the workers from other nations hardly give any problem at all! They earn usually 1/2 of the thai workers, and get the job done faster. as long as they are with other from the same region and talk their own language.

This is the Thai society. All want is having a white skin, working on an easy job and getting easy money.

It will never change.

A thoughtful post, thanks. Of course I liked it mainly because it almost exactly coincides with my own views and experience.

What I think is an important question is this: How can the culture be made to change?

That implies the question "How did the culture of laziness and exceptionalism get there in the first place?". Of course not all Thais are physically lazy, many of the rural Thais work a damn sight harder physically than I've ever worked, I've tried to match their physical work rate and I can't. But they are intellectually lazy and that seems to me to be the key - they've never been taught to think, they've only ever been taught to remember and repeat, and much of what they've been taught to remember and regurgitate involve the notion that Thais are more special than other nationalities. In other words, they are lied to and psychologically conditioned every day for the whole of their educational life and beyond. Come on guys, we see this every day in the Thai newspapers and on Thai television..

I do believe this cultural aspect, of intellectual laziness comes directly from the propaganda all Thais are subject to in the Thai education system - that they're 'special', and 'unique' and 'unconquered' because they have one attribute that no other country has.

This one attribute is (in my view) pernicious, and the propaganda was drilled into every Thai after the end of the Vietnam war. Undertaken by the Americans (no, I do not blame the Americans for everything but I do blame them for this and there is a plethora of evidence to support the notion).

When Thais realise they are not special for being Buddhist (albeit it a superficial and non-authentic, animist Buddhism) - and/or for having that one unique factor, and when they do something about what is universally recognised as a disastrous education system, then they will be able to start to catch up with a world that (at present) is kicking the crap out of them, a process which, in my opinion, will get a lot worse before it gets better. The of attracting the wrath of the international community was started by a betrayal of democracy - the democratic world is not going to diverted from expressing its displeasure at the betrayal and the manner of it, no matter how imperfect that democracy was claimed to be.

In my view, the cultural factors that make up the legendary Thai intellectual laziness and dishonesty come down to one thing, what seems to be a deliberate strategy to 'keep them poor' and 'keep them stupid' by the wealthy kleptocracy; mostly but not uniquely of Chinese extraction, and mainly in Bangkok. Teaching the hoi polloi how to think for themselves is anathema to the wealthy Thai and a direct threat to their hegemony. It constitutes a serious but concealed crime against the Thai people.

That's why I see a civil war in Thailand being almost inevitable, Thailand has all the classic features of civil war countries, and that makes Thailand ripe for some serious bloodshed. Now all Thais need to do is keep the Americans from interfering other than to restore democracy, because for those guys, most things they interfere with turn to sh|t.

Thailand's inability to improve its TIP ranking is a direct result of a culture of corruption and acceptance of inhuman conditions.

The blame and involvement go all the way to the highest levels of power. Maybe we'll see 40 to the dollar by year's end?

I think it's more complex than that. Thailand does not understand that if USA says something today, then it will still apply tomorrow.

In Thailand, some pooyay thinks up a wonderful but impossible \scheme while sitting on the toilet in the AM,. and by lunch-time it's law or fiat. No thought, no consideration, no concern about enforceability, just 'do as I tell you' Then later, of course it has to be withdrawn but nobody seems to be embarrassed about it - just business as usual. In western countries, drafting laws is a very skilled job. In Thailand even a foot-soldier is trusted to do it.

Just look at what happened with the 'no-selling-alcohol-zones' fiasco and you'll see what I mean. It's always bad enough on a good day with Thai governments run by Thais. When you allow people who should be digging ditches to run the country, it's even worse.

Finance Minister Sommai can't predict his way out of a paper bag over his head. If Prayut expects to stay as PM and salvage the economy, he needs a Finance Minister who can be honest about the state of the Thai economy, even if it conflicts with Prayut's political posturing.

True, but in Thailand, the benefit comes from the statement not the reality. One advantage of a poor education system is that by the time the reality arrives, they've all forgotten the statement. Thailand thrives on 9-day-wonder-ism.

Yep, it stinks, if NCPO let this go then it as good as admitting they all part of one big setup.

I was not a fan of pheu thai but i'm not a fan of this old lying thieving scum bag either, he is exactly the type of cockroach thailands reform needs to eradicate ...

Nail on head.

"Thailand" and "critical thinking" don't belong together.

Only because they've never been taught - and that's been deliberate imho. Thais have the same brains we all have, they're just never taught to use them for anything other than regurgitating what they're told. And we can still see that approach being applied today, in the 21st Century. Amazing really.

Any conversation on electricity generation, nuclear or otherwise, should open with the question "Why do horses shit balls, cows shit pats and goats shit pellets?"

Followed by "why should I listen to your opinion when you don't know shit?"

Apologies for the Americanism.

Wonder what happened to the board's naughty word detector.

Impressive scatological awareness...

Apologies for the Australianism.

If they ever get around to building a Nuclear Power Plant here in Thailand,

I will be on the first plane out.with someone like Somchai Simpson at the

controls. Lets see how they get on with the Fast Trains first !.

regards Worgeordie

You better get the next flight out then. Thailand has been operating Nuclear Power Plants for the last 53 years, since 1962. there are now two plants. France has 58 reactors, the UK only 16 although we started out as World Leaders in the Technology. Thailand has a 53 year proven track record of safely operating Nuclear Power Plants.

And how big might they be? This nonsense has already been dealt with in this thread.

Some of the best comments about nuclear power here was from a western educated Thai businesswoman who was dead against it until corruption was under control.

She highlighted how sub-standard materials and workmanship would apply and corners cut in order to maximise profits plus bribes changing hands to get contracts and of course to officialdom to sign off on a dangerous project completed with little regard for the original specs.

Which is a very good point to make. Corruption, is endemic to Thailand and who's to blame? That would be an interesting discussion though I think the answer is obvious.

On the nuclear reactor issue, someone noted that more people died when Ted Kennedy drove his car into a river than died at Three-Mile-Island. That's true but the cost to the economy to clean it up was a bit more than hiring a tow-truck to drag the car out.

Another made the comment about only 3 people dying at Chernobyl, the same argument applies - it isn't the number of deaths, it is the potential number of deaths had the clean-up not been done properly. Can you really imagine Thais doing a proper job? While slagging off the foreigners and keeping them out? I think it's unlikely.

Someone else made the comment that more people die on Thai roads. Again that's true but not relevant. If anyone has ever shared Thai roads with Thais, the reason for the roadkill rate is obvious too, But again, its not the actual number of deaths, its the risk and the cost to the economy. Could Thailand afford to do a Chernobyl clean-up? No, and lets not even talk about Fukushima.

The bottom line here (imho) is that Thais are almost completely useless. As someone else said, everyone wants to be expert but are too lazy to learn how to be expert. Thais are expert at the bodge job, that's about it. And before the trolls clamber pout from under their bridges, that's not to say there are no experts or that there are no competent people in Thailand, of course there are, but there are considerably fewer of them that there should be, and than you would generally find in the Western world. The education system is the problem and even those who could easily have done something about that have not done so. The conclusion must be that poor education has been a strategy in Thailand for many years - again IMHO.

The nuclear risk is not just worth it where Thailand is concerned, but we should always allow them to brag and boast and pretend to be all modern and better than foreigners, that's an important part of the Thai psyche, an important part of coping with being a 3rd-world country. Lets not even think about the opportunities a nuclear project would have for stealing, an opportunity which a great many Thais would just not be able to resist.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not Thai-bashing (moderators with sensitive souls or Thai girlfriends please note). I lived happily in Thailand for many years and I still have many educated and accomplished Thai friends, but the reality is they are anomalies in a country which is largely under-educated, and parts of which have been deliberately kept back in the stone age so that a rich few can benefit. I certainly lived there long enough to understand the Thai psychology pretty well - and it's not a pretty thing to behold. I am not easily fooled or persuaded where Thais are concerned, I have waaay too much evidence that my view is the correct one - for me at least. Perhaps being a psychologist and psychotherapist has been useful in that respect.

And for any mud crabs out there who might be waiting to pounce from their underground habitats, I used a spall-checker this time, I hope you approve. I'll focus on grammar next.

We all understand this in real democracies ----this is and near never has been hence the problems with mass corruption etc-----If the situation was stable and a government was just out of favour, a no confidence vote would result in a general election. The situation with the Shin controlled PTP was not normal, Paid red shirt villages--paid red shirt mass transport to Bkk-- government not governing as per law, government breaking the law with the amnesty vote, the PM not attending and controlling meetings, and abroad countless times.

Now you call this democracy ?? your elected government was only on paper.the aftermath complete democracy shattered.

In your eyes an election should have taken place amid near civil war looming---Think again my red shirt friend--yes please do not give me the fact you did not favour PTP. your squirming along with the small % on TVF because you do not believe going against the law and trying to pass a bill at 3am by an elected government is not treason, or most charges against Thaksin and Yingluck and the rest are politically motivated------heard it before. I have been here so long and am the first on to wish for a stable good governance in Thailand. It has never happened. now is a glimmer---some hope.

I get that you didn't like the PTP government, I really do, but as a foreigner, you ought to have enough integrity to recognise that treason and coups d'etat are always a bad thing - the rest of the world certainly does, even China, which is always on the lookout for insurrection, all totalitarian states are - always. But apparently you don't. That's a pity, but not so great a pity as the gymnastics you are obliged to go through in order to pretend to yourself that the unacceptable is somehow OK.

I don't share your bleak view and don't engage in your weak gyrations, and if you have any sense at all, then somewhere inside you, you don't either. The probability is you've taken on the view you have because you wanted to ingratiate yourself with whoever infected you with it. I really do recommend you should change the people you've been listening to because wanting them to like you and accept you so badly is doing you no favours at all.

Look at facts and not (rather transparent and immature) mythology, if you have any intellect at all, you will find it much better without all the baggage you and your mates are carrying around.

Sorry, I can't help you from here, you're too far away to benefit from my professional skills - you'll have to help yourself - if you can. In the meantime, I would be very grateful if you would not bother talking to me again. I will be very happy to reciprocate, I always try to be careful about the company I keep and there are certain standards I try to observe.

Out of that 65% Ginjag how many voted Democrats?

what's your point ?? I think my post explains it'self------so your getting at what ?? diverting the post ?? the fact is 65% did NOT vote PTP-Shins

Alas. in a democracy, that's not how it works. Governments are not elected on the basis of how many people didn't vote for the other side, they are elected by counting the people who actually voted for each side.

Wriggling and squirming to try and make rain seem like sunshine is really not very helpful. Or bright.

The fact is the army kicked out an elected government - again, under the implicit threat of armed violence. Under the law as it stood at the time, that was treason, thus everything the 'government' has done since then lacks legitimacy. The whole world knows it and is reacting accordingly, so whether or not you personally like it or think it ought to be OK isn't really relevant.

X-rays are not generated with isotopes so what you claimed about Thailand supplying X-ray fuel for surrounding countries seems unlikely. Food irradiation in Thailand is done using X-ray accelerators not istopes as far as I'm aware so it is just as unlikely. And the reactor at NINT is a 53-year-old 1.3mw rector that would struggle to power 80 houses.

Apart from that, you were right on the money. No more from me on this though, my BS detection machine is going into overdrive. But be my guest, have the last word, which I'm sure will be ad-hominem because that would fit.

Oh dear.

A 1.3 milliwatt rector? Or was that reactor?

Like a AAA battery perhaps.

Glad there were no "istopes" involved

Love it....from the same person who vilified another poster who didn't know the difference between an Amp and a Volt.

Love it!

Lad

Well. my post clearly says mw (that's megawatt to the poorly educated, milliwatt is something different, which you ought to know if you got past 3rd-grade). Perhaps I should have written MW or Mw for the intellectually-challenged, but really, would anyone actually build a 1.3 milliwatt nuclear reactor? I thought it was obvious but perhaps not to all. My apologies for over-estimating you.

It's like teaching quantum mechanics to my dog sometimes, or a mud crab, they seem to be paying attention but they're only wondering what time dinner is.

As for spalling; don't let one 'touche' go to your head lad, my keyboard is Thai (so of course it doesn't work well) and I don't usually use a spall-chacker, perhaps I should.

None of which alters the apparent fact that the poster I was actually replying to was either lying or is just as challenged - but then at least he didn't think there was a 1.3mW nuclear reactor in Thailand.

If ytou're going to engage in ad-hominems lad, try to be more articulate.

If you are going to be critical...learn to spell.

My apologies for hitting a nerve...lad.

Touche.

Whoever you think I am, I'm not. Try to control your automatic responses, they're probably wrong.

Tell me more about the BKK reactor powering X-Ray machines in TL and neighbouring countries . Because I don't believe you.

Entirely your choice. But where do you think the isotopes come from, if not from that nuclear reactor? I choose not to tell you more because the information is so easily available and then you don't have to trust me about it at all. The isotopes come from somewhere. Find out where.

Tell me more about the irradiation plants; do they use Cobalt or Caesium isotopes? Or something else? Because I don't believe you again. In any event, do you really not see a difference between the risks present in producing radiation sources for food plants and uranium based power-stations? Really?

Same answer here. Your belief has nothing to do with it and does not affect the quite modern food irradiation plant. You can CHOOSE not to believe, there's not a thing I can — or want to — do about that. I personally don't *believe" anything at all on this subject but I do know some facts, and know how to find more.

Here's something I do believe, though. I believe you also know how. If you actually do not know, tell me and then I'll show you - but of course you won't trust me because you BELIEVE I made a false statement. Why not prove I did? Or didn't?

Tell me more about the irradiation plants; do they use Cobalt or Caesium isotopes? Or something else? Because I don't believe you again. In any event, do you really not see a difference between the risks present in producing radiation sources for food plants and uranium based power-stations? Really?

Does Chernobyl not ring a bell somewhere in your mind? Fukushima? Three-mile island?

The point is that the education system in Thailand produces neither well-educated people nor competent people. This is indisputable. And yet you seem to be saying that they're OK with X-Ray machines so that's good enough. You cannot be serious.

Nuclear power has clear dangers, risks.... and others that are not entirely clear such as terrorist attacks. Yes, it has dangers. So does every form of producing energy. Coal in Krabi has ENORMOUS risks, much greater than nuclear. The risk of terrorism or similar is very real there, and in Songkhla. But that's just a one-off comment, not all that germane. Yes, of course you are right - nuclear power has risks, but it also instills massive, irrational fears in people that aren't justified but are as real as your strange beliefs. We're not Vulcans, but we can be MORE logical than 80% of this thread.

As I say, I don't think nuclear stands a chance in Thailand or in most places. I think it should, but it probably won't. Even though more people died in Ted Kennedy's car than at Three-Mile Island.

X-rays are not generated with isotopes so what you claimed about Thailand supplying X-ray fuel for surrounding countries seems unlikely. Food irradiation in Thailand is done using X-ray accelerators not istopes as far as I'm aware so it is just as unlikely. And the reactor at NINT is a 53-year-old 1.3mw rector that would struggle to power 80 houses.

Apart from that, you were right on the money. No more from me on this though, my BS detection machine is going into overdrive. But be my guest, have the last word, which I'm sure will be ad-hominem because that would fit.

Hmmm. You aren't really doing your case for supporting the level of Thai education and competence any favours if you don't know the difference between an amp and a volt. Apart from that, your rant was... interesting .----Red queen

Your quite correct Red Queen----- I don't know the difference between the 2......& I am not even khon Thai--maybe I should just stick to the shoe tying analogy, I do get a little depressed the way the colonials tend to view the "Natives" especially on this forum.....in the short time I have lived here (16 years) I have been around so many competent Thai people, in different professions. Even down to the girl in the bar who left school at 12 & speaks 4-5 languages--mainly to the farang who after 20 years here still finds it difficult to order a beer in Thai.

I find this country such a nice place to reside in----I just get blown away by the people that get up every morning, just looking to post something negative about it.

Well, it was obvious you don't know the difference and yes, perhaps you should stick to tying shoe-laces rather than posting BS. a good man knows his limitations and works within them