Isitjustme

The question you need to ask yourself: in the event of a disagreement of fault between a farang and a Thai driver, who would the police and/or insurance company automatically take sides with?

Even with my top of the range insurance, I have a Dash Cam, 1200 baht at Pantip (+ another 300 for the memory card) turns on and off with the car, and it's seriously cheap peace of mind that should I ever get in an accident and it's not my fault, I have evidence to prove it, after all videos don't lie.

What cam is that?

And is playback quality good?

Looking for a decent cam myself.

Had a crash last December late evening when a car turned right across my lane as I was approaching, leaving me not enough time to brake.

We both pulled our cars over as it was dark and others might have plowed into us. There was some damage but minimal I suppose, a dent and broken light.

I don't have insurance other than 'por ror bor' but the other guy (a Thai) admitteded responsibility and called his insurance company.

They arrived within 30mins and the paperwork was done and it's all coming off his insurance.

So it's not always 100% necessary to have fully comp insurance although I admit feeling fortunate that he accepted responsibility and didn't just drive off.

The latest update is that the Pattaya police understand that they made a complete fool of themselves and that the paid bail money will be refunded to the people.

I do not believe it until I read it in the news and hear it from the bridge players themselves, I highly doubt they will get their money back .

"Bridge allows players to accumulate points rather than win money and Khunying Chodchoy vowed to fight any possible Court case in the future, on behalf of those arrested on Thursday, although one of the arrestees who does not wish to be named told Pattaya One that he was given verbal confirmation from the Police that the case will likely be dropped and the 5,000 Baht bail money each of the players paid will be returned."

Source: http://pattayaone.net/pattaya-news/221299/confusion-and-anger-at-pattaya-bridge-club-raid/

It's a start. They should get a few baht compensation for wrongful detention too. But TIT...not gonna happen.

Last couple of foreigners wrongfully detained got the death sentence.

Love your sense of humour hahaha

Like this is going to court.

Wasn't that the most recent public announcement, that it WAS going to court?

My impression is that passports and bail money are being held and the bridge suspects must appear in court.

If it is then i stand corrected.

still... what a farce!

Obviously the bridge club was raided with the intention of nabbing a gang of gamblers. When no gambling could be proven, the BIB didn't want to lose face and concocted this ridiculous "120 card" law otherwise would have had to slink out tails between their legs.

Love your sense of humour hahaha

Like this is going to court.

The Pattaya grey MAFIA - A bridge too far?

THe Keystone cops couldn't have done a better job....

A bridge too far.. haha very good...very sharp...card sharp?

Is there some sort of clampdown on people ridiculing the BIB?

Clearly they don't need any assistance in this. Doing a sterling job themselves IMO .

This actually made the national TV news, even had the police video. A bunch of confused old folks playing Bridge.

Unclear what crime was committed, anyone know?

The offense relates to Section 8 of the Playing Cards Act of 1935 which states that an individual is not allowed to possess more than 120 playing cards at any one time. At the Bridge event, considerably more than 120 playing cards were found by officers.

I don't see the problem here except for the number of officers involved in the arrest. These people are criminals who broke the law. They knew they were committing a crime but obviously thought as affluent foreigners they were above the law or were too culturally insensitive to care. If you live in a country you should follow its laws and customs regardless of whether you agree with them or not. If you do not want to do that face the consequences or go somewhere else. I bet many of these would be the first to whine about foreigners in their on country flaunting the laws and refusing to conform to cultural norms.

They didnt break any law idiot. They weren't gambling.

Sorry forgot to write Narai roundabout on. Narai is the top left in my drawing near Lopburi hospital.

The roundabout top right is a smaller roundabout in Pa Wai district. This area also known as Patarn. it's where the Sunday market is held in a school grounds. There is a small airforce museum on this roundabout too but never been in it.

You're correct, the Monkey Mall night market is only Tuesdays and Fridays.

What I didn't mark clearly is that there are smaller road exits off Sakaew roundabout between the main exits I drew.

The main bus station is just off the roundabout, you can't miss it. Take the turnoff where you see the photograph shop on the left corner as you go to bus station which is directly in front of you. On the right corner of this road is a beef noodle shop so you're going between the photo shop and the noodle shop, straight ahead to bus station.

I don't know which bus you catch to the sunflower place as I drive my own car but this is the main bus station for Lopburi. Buses leave from here to all other areas.

I'm not sure which noodle shops you mean too. There are several around this area, the beef noodle shop I mentioned is very popular with Thais.

I already marked on the map the road to Big C.It's the road at the top centre of my drawing. It goes past both Big Cs, Tesco Lotus/monkey Mall and on to Saraburi.

And there's another coffee shop right next to the Monkey Mall market, it's called 44 cafe. It's to the left of the market on the main road.

Seems like you're kinda rushed on your visits. If you can spare more time you should just wander around these streets awhile, you'll come across several different food places. There are noodle shops, food-to-order shops, coffee shops & bakeries. From the sakaew roundabout if you walk along the road past Kasikorn bank and take the first right there are some food places there on your left.

If this helps you Only 1, then pleased to help. Not quite to scale haha and hope my scrawl is legible. Enjoy your trip.

There is a market every night in Lopburi in different parts of the town.

As stated there is a good large night market at Tesco Lotus on Tuesday and Friday. On these same nights there is also a smaller food market in front of the Amphoe offices near Narai roundabout.

On Wednesday there is a night market in the old part of town opposite the railway track, along the road where Noom guesthouse is situated. This is the only one in the week in this part of town.

On Sunday the market is behind the school at the far southern end of the prison road (south from Narai roundabout to the next roundabout) .This area is called Pa Wai.

On Saturdays and also Wednesdays there is another big market further out of town at Airforce 2 base which is on the northern road from Narai roundabout about 5km i think on the way to Khokatiem and Khok Samrong. You'll see the base on your right, some old aeroplanes mounted up near the roadside.

These above are quite large markets selling a range of stuff (clothes etc) as well as foods.

There is also a smaller food market on Mondays and Thursdays again along the prison road about 2km from Narai roundabout on the right, but not open long after dark.

And there's a small food market 7 nights a week just past the large Big C on the Saraburi road out of town, it's opposite a 7-11 on the corner. Again this closes after dark.

Another every day to early eve near bus station.

If you want just a food stall/sit down outside place there are 2 places open every night.

One is again alongside the railway tracks in the old part of town.

The other is near the large roundabout, Sakaew Circle 2km from the old town. It's along one of the circular roads parallel to the roundabout. This one has a lot more choice than the railway tracks one.

Hope this all helps.

I wasn't sure if by your query about a Walking St you meant something similar to Pattaya's. Nothing like that in Lopburi I'm afraid. But if you mean markets for food, clothes, etc then the above is where it's at.

Thank you.

I like the one near Monkey Mall, a lot of food and other stuffs.

Any of those you mentioned is as big or bigger than the one near Monkey Mall ?

So I can time my visit well during my next visit.

How about cafes ?

I don't see much cafes in Lopburi near the railway station except for a small one in a lane near a small massage place, and another with only a side table to side along the main road with Indra Hotel.

The Monkey Mall is the Tesco one, the same. yes it's very big and most things are available there.

I haven't been to the Airforce 2 market for a while now but that was very big last time I was there, spread out over quite an area.

I'd say these two are the biggest and best. The Sunday one is very good for food and quite big, its close to home for me so use it often. There are other stalls but not so much as Monkey Mall/Tesco or AF2.

Yes there are some good cafes but not loads. There is an excellent pie shop/cafe opposite the railway tracks, called the Hungry Monkey, run by a Brit called Keith. Green-fronted with sign outside. It's been open about 8 months I'm told and I'm gutted I've only just discovered it. His pies are excellent with chips or mash, and he's a good bloke. Other stuff on menu too including a full breakfast.They do a quiz night on Thursdays and open til 9-ish most days. Closed most Sundays. I recommend it. Popular with foreigners.

Noom guesthouse which i mentioned in the market road not far from railway tracks also serves good food, burgers, omelettes, sandwiches, coffee or booze. Friendly too. If you don't know it just ask any foreigner you see walking around there, I'm sure they will know. And on the corner diagonally opposite there's the same kind of setup run by the brother of Noom's.

On the opposite corner to Noom GH there is a park entrance. Walk in there and on right there's a good little open-air cafe/eatery if you want some Thai food. Good selection of ice creams there too.

Theres a steak cafe in the next road along selling cheap steaks but not the best IMO. There's a much better steak place open in the evenings, pavement tables, but thats 2 km from railway tracks near Sakaew Circle. Steaks with fries and a bit of veg only 50 baht-up. Nothing expensive. Good value IMO. It's called Lung Nuat i think.

There are lots of good Coffee shops selling bakery stuff around town. And if you want to get further afield than railway tracks there are motorbikes and bicycles to be rented around Noom GH too. Don't know if you have your own transport. One excellent bakery with coffee shop attached near Sakaew too. This area has a lot of small eateries but mostly Thai foods. That's all I can think of at the moment. I'll send a message if i remember anything else.

You can PM me if you need any info too.

There is a market every night in Lopburi in different parts of the town.

As stated there is a good large night market at Tesco Lotus on Tuesday and Friday. On these same nights there is also a smaller food market in front of the Amphoe offices near Narai roundabout.

On Wednesday there is a night market in the old part of town opposite the railway track, along the road where Noom guesthouse is situated. This is the only one in the week in this part of town.

On Sunday the market is behind the school at the far southern end of the prison road (south from Narai roundabout to the next roundabout) .This area is called Pa Wai.

On Saturdays and also Wednesdays there is another big market further out of town at Airforce 2 base which is on the northern road from Narai roundabout about 5km i think on the way to Khokatiem and Khok Samrong. You'll see the base on your right, some old aeroplanes mounted up near the roadside.

These above are quite large markets selling a range of stuff (clothes etc) as well as foods.

There is also a smaller food market on Mondays and Thursdays again along the prison road about 2km from Narai roundabout on the right, but not open long after dark.

And there's a small food market 7 nights a week just past the large Big C on the Saraburi road out of town, it's opposite a 7-11 on the corner. Again this closes after dark.

Another every day to early eve near bus station.

If you want just a food stall/sit down outside place there are 2 places open every night.

One is again alongside the railway tracks in the old part of town.

The other is near the large roundabout, Sakaew Circle 2km from the old town. It's along one of the circular roads parallel to the roundabout. This one has a lot more choice than the railway tracks one.

Hope this all helps.

I wasn't sure if by your query about a Walking St you meant something similar to Pattaya's. Nothing like that in Lopburi I'm afraid. But if you mean markets for food, clothes, etc then the above is where it's at.

DNA evidence in the Kho Tao Verdict is being openly challenged.

The author is a internationally recognized, well-known, well respected senior barrister (trial lawyer) from Perth.

Open letters to:

(1) the Public Prosecutor of Koh Samui Province

(2) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Quality Standards

(3) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Accreditation, both part of the Department of Medical Sciences, Ministry of Public Health.

“This finding was made in spite of the following facts [each of which violates the standards of ISO 17025]: the police claimed they had ‘used up’ all the original mixed semen samples; there were no chain of custody documents in evidence; there were inadequate case notes; no statistical analysis was performed; hand-written changes were made to documents without explanation; a used condom was not made available to the defense, and stamps were not present on documents."

“There was no reference in the judgement as to when the laboratory obtained the accreditation, the extent of the accreditation or which body gave the accreditation.”

The three recipients are asked who accredited the laboratories for ISO 17025 in relation to human DNA testing and matching, and the scope of the accreditation.

The author sets forth the time honored principal that it must be “shown that the DNA testing was carried out in accordance with standards that allow the defense team to verify the test results and conclusions.” AND that the Courts of Justice be made fully aware of the extent of accreditation (or non-accreditation) of the laboratories.”

IY TF 170116 1st.jpg

IY TF 170116 1.jpg

IY TF 170116 3.jpg

Trial report:

The results of the DNA tests on the exhibited cigarette butts indicated that the second defendant and Mr Mau Mau had smoked the exhibited cigarettes, which was confirmed by the testimonies of the two defendants that they took it in turns to smoke the same exhibited cigarettes.

This indicates that the examination conducted by the Central Forensic Bureau was accurate and correct thus giving weight to the credibility of the test results and indicating that the test results are admissible.

It indicates nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing ... sweet <deleted>

Now be fair. As I mentioned earlier it indicates the B2 could be guilty of littering in a public place. Nothing else though.

DNA evidence in the Kho Tao Verdict is being openly challenged.

The author is a internationally recognized, well-known, well respected senior barrister (trial lawyer) from Perth.

Open letters to:

(1) the Public Prosecutor of Koh Samui Province

(2) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Quality Standards

(3) the Thailand Bureau of Laboratory Accreditation, both part of the Department of Medical Sciences, Ministry of Public Health.

“This finding was made in spite of the following facts [each of which violates the standards of ISO 17025]: the police claimed they had ‘used up’ all the original mixed semen samples; there were no chain of custody documents in evidence; there were inadequate case notes; no statistical analysis was performed; hand-written changes were made to documents without explanation; a used condom was not made available to the defense, and stamps were not present on documents."

“There was no reference in the judgement as to when the laboratory obtained the accreditation, the extent of the accreditation or which body gave the accreditation.”

The three recipients are asked who accredited the laboratories for ISO 17025 in relation to human DNA testing and matching, and the scope of the accreditation.

The author sets forth the time honored principal that it must be “shown that the DNA testing was carried out in accordance with standards that allow the defense team to verify the test results and conclusions.” AND that the Courts of Justice be made fully aware of the extent of accreditation (or non-accreditation) of the laboratories.”

I hope the defence are able to make better use of Ms Taupin and her extensive knowledge in the appeal. What she writes makes so much sense even to the uninitiated like me.

Only a deeply embedded shill/troll/apologist for the prosecutors could read her statement and yet still be blinkered to what are clearly facts of international law.

The dna "report" isn't worth the paper it was scribbled/crossed out/amended/disfigured/altered/uncorroborated on!

Great editorial this morning in the paper which cannot be referenced. Titled "no time for intimidation", ironic that I was lead to it from Andy Halls Twitter feed. The guy who refuses to be intimidated. He should be the one given the opportunity to put this into words when it is all over.

Sickening from the start, but could the tide finally be turning?

Just read the article in the BK post, titled no time for intimidation, good read and great that the BK post has spoken out.

I see some hope for the B2 as anonymous, and Laura's brave stance has ruffled the feathers and the whole thai police/ justice system is now under world observation as being corrupt.

Great article. To think that these 'bribers' could have the temerity to believe they could assuage a family's grief and repugnance by dint of a few baht. They're used to dealing with a different kind of person, those ruled by fear or greed, or with no morals perhaps. Huge plaudits to the Witheridge family for showing exactly what they thought of this grubby little offer to reject the truth and bypass the law.

"Does that make me "middle class" or silly?"

IMHO, if anyone goes to Koh Tao without doing 30 seconds of research on Google to find out the past history of fellow travelers there....

Then they are stupid, ignorant and negligent for not having done "due diligence".

Doesn't matter if they are University students or your typical Cockney workman with an inheritance, anyone that fails to do research on their foreign destination in a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY is unimaginably stupid and deserves everything they get.

That's a simplistic view from a simple person, your at it again mister Mexican.

Simpletons tend to have simplistic views. don't mock the afflicted.

Wouldn't blame her or put her down if there were expletives. Would fully understand in an impassioned state if she resorted to that. Think I would too.

Thanks Taony, i had read it and know there weren't any expletives. I didn't intend to imply there were. She's a remarkable and courageous woman who has shown her outrage with great dignity.

I don't think i could have shown the same restraint.That was my point, not very well articulated perhaps.

Thai Murders - Local Justice On Trial

Excellent summary of the case from "The Diplomat"

http://thediplomat.com/2016/01/thai-murders-local-justice-on-trial/

Excellent report as you say. Highlights many(but not all...that would need a book!) of the major faults in the case very well, especially the dna blunders.

No her original post did not contain any expletives unless of course you consider the words 'shove it' expletives. Nice try though!

The two Bumese guy's lives are in grave danger, this whole thing is getting out of complete control.

I fear they will be silenced once and for all....very soon.

I don't think this is going to go away either way and will just gain more publicity if the B2 are helped off a 3rd story balcony.

This young lady deserves answers, truthful and believable ones.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't her FB post contain a lot of expletives. If I am right then the words used certainly do not put her in the category of being a lady, young maybe but not the former, however if I am wrong, then I stand corrrected.

Wouldn't blame her or put her down if there were expletives. Would fully understand in an impassioned state if she resorted to that. Think I would too.

Hey guys excuse my ignorance..what's a VPN ?? Please..

VPN is a Virtual Private network

It works by creating an internet tunnel to a computer overseas so that it appears your computer is in that country. You can switch it on or off as you wish

There are free ones, in my view they are a total wast of money

There are a number of subscription ones that you can subscribe to. For example WiTopia is $50 a year with very solid backup and simple to use.

Em me if you want any further information

Interested too but when you say free ones are a waste of money...?

Waste of time do you mean? Not up to the job?

I've seen several "I've read the report posts" They are based on what many consider to to an unfair and biased trial.

Andy Hall is a clever guy and would not play his hand to point out the errors. This will be done at the next stage.

Rules of Engagement here:

Do not quote trolls/shills

Do not reply to trolls/shills just state what you are arguing against

Do not assume that everyone that likes your post is a supporter of truth and justice

Understand that a major ploy is misdirection in some posts

Understand there is no evidence of a murder having been committed by the B2 which leads to the question why a death sentence?

Be patient wait for the DNA evidence to be scrutinised

I doubt anything will come of any appeals or retrials... The whole legal systems seems to have been rigged, even if there was a complete change of government with a score or two to settle, these two are not going to get justice, Thailand has too much face to lose.

There is plenty to come and plenty for the defence to look at on appeal. My observations from the report are that all police statements were accepted as fact but most of the defence evidence was not acceptable as credible, such as the UK Autopsy report (presented by Andy Hall).

A few extracts:

According to the CCTV footage, the Second Deceased was found walking into the AC Bar with her friends at 00.15 hrs, whereas the Second Deceased walked into the AC Bar at 02.08.37 hrs. Thereafter, both Deceased were never found walking out of the Bar until their bodies were found.

The results of the DNA tests on the exhibited cigarette butts indicated that the second defendant and Mr Mau Mau had smoked the exhibited cigarettes, which was confirmed by the testimonies of the two defendants that they took it in turns to smoke the same exhibited cigarettes. This indicates that the examination conducted by the Central Forensic Bureau was accurate and correct thus giving weight to the credibility of the test results and indicating that the test results are admissible.

even after the crime has been committed Mr O continued to use the exhibited hoe before it was sent off for examination

Even though the report of the results of the DNA tests conducted by the Institute of Forensic Science according to Document number Lor. 29 summarises the results and conclusions of the examination that the DNA of the two Defendants did not match the mixed DNA of a male found on the exhibited hoe, this is not significant or inconsistent because the mixed DNA of a male that was found on the hoe matched the DNA of the First Deceased.

The evidence and connected circumstances lead to the conclusion that there can be no other Finding than that the two Defendants used the exhibited hoe as a weapon to attack and kill the Second Deceased at the crime scene.

The swimming observation which is already being commented about.

There is a lot of evidence that wasn't presented or was ignored in the report which to a layman like me would seem significant such as the hair found in Hannah's hand ....

Having read through it all I think the only crime the B2 are guilty of is Littering in a public place ie the cigarette butts. death sentence seems a tad harsh methinks.

I have a question for the folks here who believe the RTP are completely honest and transparent courts too. Why were foreign journalists NOT allowed to take notes in court?

Exactly DK. Nail on the head!

I mentioned something similar in an earlier post. If the rtp/prosecution team had one valid and verifiable piece of evidence, just one scrap of proof or evidence that was irrefutable and proved the B2s guilt, then they would have been showcasing it for all the world to see. The chain of custody would have been in order, there would be samples(of dna) for the defence to retest as it would prove their guilt, translators would be encouraged not threatened away, reporters both foreign and Thai would be allowed full access to take notes and print the "truth'. Full transparency as you say.

In short they wouldn't have been able to restrain themselves from showing the world how competent they are and what a great criminal case they had put together.

To me, as I'm sure to any right-minded decent person, it's the total lack of any of these, their complete unwillingness/inability to "prove" their own competence as police officers that shows up the case for what it is. A farce. a sham. A complete cock-up.

Could not agree more even though the chief of police will set his legal people on to me for defamation tomorrow for me saying that. I am certain that if the case was watertight there would be no way you would lose the DNA evidence!

Exactly my thoughts.

But I'm sure we all know that nothing was lost or used up. It either was destroyed or never existed in the first place.

How do you "lose" a whole heap of clothes for example? And why weren't the butter-fingered "law enforcement officers" (haha) who were incapable of safeguarding the evidence in a major crime not disciplined/sacked/moved to inactive posts/whatever?

Answer as above: It wasn't lost. It was deliberately disposed of because it didn't support their case.

I have a question for the folks here who believe the RTP are completely honest and transparent courts too. Why were foreign journalists NOT allowed to take notes in court?

Exactly DK. Nail on the head!

I mentioned something similar in an earlier post. If the rtp/prosecution team had one valid and verifiable piece of evidence, just one scrap of proof or evidence that was irrefutable and proved the B2s guilt, then they would have been showcasing it for all the world to see. The chain of custody would have been in order, there would be samples(of dna) for the defence to retest as it would prove their guilt, translators would be encouraged not threatened away, reporters both foreign and Thai would be allowed full access to take notes and print the "truth'. Full transparency as you say.

In short they wouldn't have been able to restrain themselves from showing the world how competent they are and what a great criminal case they had put together.

To me, as I'm sure to any right-minded decent person, it's the total lack of any of these, their complete unwillingness/inability to "prove" their own competence as police officers that shows up the case for what it is. A farce. a sham. A complete cock-up.

Just been reading the translation of the final Kho Tao judgement.

Part of the sentence they received was '20 years imprisonment for the rape of a woman who is not their wife'

So it's ok if it's their wife?

Gobsmacked. Am I missing something?

You are not missing anything. Ever watched the soaps they are addicted to here (hard I know)? Rape is a constant feature of these, frequently treated as a legitimate seduction technique. Just another aspect of Thainess.

Yes Phuketandsee, I've seen them. Managed to wean myself off that particular addiction (haha) after about half an episode.

Aware of these rape scenes and general attitude to women, know of tough guys beating up on their spouse/gf.

I even read somewhere that if a girl goes on a date with their Thai guy then he almost has a 'right' to have sex with her, insomuch as the law wouldn't protect her or defend her if she claims rape .This 'right' for want of a better word is often enforced or so I read.

A bit like the illustrious PMs comment about bikini-clad 'pretty girls'; They should know better or deserve what's coming to them.

Enlightened right? Still, even being aware of all this, it's astonishing to me that the law stipulates 'rape of a woman who is not their wife'.

As if rape of a wife is a non-crime or at least a lesser crime.

Just been reading the translation of the final Kho Tao judgement.

Part of the sentence they received was '20 years imprisonment for the rape of a woman who is not their wife'

So it's ok if it's their wife?

Gobsmacked. Am I missing something?