Isitjustme

Don't see the relevance, plus I've got better things to do with my time.

555... How big are those Blinkers you're wearing.?

No not blinkers. It's a white stick.

The verdict was not based on the RTP's word. It was based on the DNA evidence!!

A handwritten form by the in-house RTP forensics department claiming a DNA match with alterations and dated after the announcement of the Burmese kids confessions. What would normally be provided in the form of a chain of custody was not provided. The only documented DNA evidence presented in court was that the accuseds' DNA was not on the alleged murder weapon. Other relevant DNA samples were lost, used up or not tested. In my book, it still comes down to the RTP's word.

Lucy's got her lines crossed. It was based on the rtp's 'word' that there was dna evidence. When clearly to any sane non-tunnel visioned person...there wasn't. NO verifiable evidence at all. Nuff said!

Mr Rizzla posted

She said that the British police logged in and first edited her post and has now deleted it.

Funny that out of all the people in this charade you accuse of lying is the bereaving sister of the accused. Not the corrupt, bumbling Thai authorities or the sick, bullying Thai mafia. No no no, it's Laura making up things

If the police or any other ill-intentioned people deleted her post...well, the words stable door, bolted and horse spring to mind.

It's already out there.

I can see the Police system is failing in Thailand.

what is your aim apart from adding fuel to the fire. Thailand is the safest country I have ever been in and dealing with the police has been nothing but pleasant..

But then I am a decent person....exactly what did the police do to you that gives you premise to slag them...or do you just like to listen to yourself talk rubbish?

You are one naive falang.hope you dont wake up from your dreams one day to find its become a nightmare.

Got nothing to add to the thread then begone troll.

This story is now going VIRAL

This is one brave woman and family and if ANYTHING ever suspicious happens to Laura ... well ....

Don't be too harsh on him.

Think he was looking for the Humour thread and got lost.

Bless.

Not the brightest star in their solar system is he?

Laura should go on television herself to clarify all her allegations.

That's for her to decide.. She doesn't owe anyone anything.

Same with Maria Miller, or even David Millers family.

It's the RTP who are in debt to these people. I'm

Just happy to see them fight for the truth, or some portion of truth they can obtain.

Her remarks were passionate and accusatory, she does owe someone something- she owes the Thai police and people a justification and proof of her remarks of condemnation -who said ' you can make another one' ? etc.

Who is this sad sack?

She is owed very much by several people, in fact more than can ever be repaid, but owes nobody a thing especially these lying cheating bastards.

I think they are called Shiils, sadly they infect this site and all freedom of speech forums.

laura dont be put off stand strong!!!!

Can someone define "shills" for me

I think I'm aware of what trolls are, even though I get sucked in... But shills is a new one to me

Here you go:

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/Internet-shill

Thank you for that too. Live and learn. A very apt term for these sad mercenaries.

Although I think sick muppets would suit better than sock puppets in this case.

Just posted this on the Luke Miller thread. Seems to me to have the same relevance here.

I agree with you absolutely. Quite a number of these rtp apologists have been guilty of sickening callousness in their comments, almost on a par with the scum who commited these crimes and roam free to do it again.

There's no accounting for human nature. How low would anyone stoop to protect their interests and those of their paymasters? Right down to gutter level and below apparently. It's not only Thais, as someone suggested, who have no concept of conscience.

Ignoring their sick fantasies is my preferred way to deal with them. Why give them the pleasure of being acknowledged as if their lies, digressions, obfuscations, deliberate baiting and general disregard for the obvious truth, apart from their overall disregard for human life.....as if any of this garbage was worth responding directly to them.

Luke's sister and Hannah's are indeed brave young woman who probably don't see it that way themselves. They just want justice to be done and seen to be done for their departed siblings. I think any of us would do the same if it was our brothers and sisters whose lives had been lost in such a meaningless way.They want people to realise the corruption and cover-ups involved and see the depths to which Kho Tao officialdom will stoop to protect their precious baht and save their worthless faces.

I hope the efforts of the decent-minded people who post on here can go some way to support them.

maria miller, on 09 Jan 2016 - 17:12, said:

This is my little brother luke that you're all talking about, an amazing brother, uncle, son and friend to so so many. Yes, he was a joker and yes he lived life to the full. . However, this wasn't an accident and believe me, I really wish it was. There are so many inconsistencies it's unbelievable. The police are trying to cover up so many things. First off, he wasn't even found in the complex where he was staying. There was no ccTV at the sunset bar it was conveniently not switched on or it was wiped. If he wasn't found until the next morning where the hell was everyone when this "accident" happened? How come no one heard or saw anything? Where the hell did his bruises come from? Especially the ones found on his arms. . We will get justice for you baby brother, I promise I will do whatever I can. Love you millions my darling baby brother. Xxxxx

If this is genuine please can you put the same on your Facebook page

She has heard that the best private investigators are to be found here on this forum. She does not trust the Thai police, not even the UK authorities and certainly not the media. She wants the Thaivisa forum's finest to work on this case!

Did you EVER, even for a second consider, that this might actually be his sister posting?

I know, we are not supposed to discuss posters personally, but you make me sick!

I agree with you absolutely. Quite a number of these rtp apologists have been guilty of sickening callousness in their comments, almost on a par with the scum who commited these crimes and roam free to do it again.

There's no accounting for human nature. How low would anyone stoop to protect their interests and those of their paymasters? Right down to gutter level and below apparently. It's not only Thais, as someone suggested, who have no concept of conscience.

Ignoring their sick fantasies is my preferred way to deal with them. Why give them the pleasure of being acknowledged as if their lies, digressions, obfuscations, deliberate baiting and general disregard for the obvious truth, apart from their overall disregard for human life.....as if any of this garbage was worth responding directly to them.

Luke's sister and Hannah's are indeed brave young woman who probably don't see it that way themselves. They just want justice to be done and seen to be done for their departed siblings. I think any of us would do the same if it was our brothers and sisters whose lives had been lost in such a meaningless way.They want people to realise the corruption and cover-ups involved and see the depths to which Kho Tao officialdom will stoop to protect their precious baht and save their worthless faces.

I hope the efforts of the decent-minded people who post on here can go some way to support them.

Any ideas why my post regarding Laura witheridge has been removed?

Her views on Koh Tao deserve a topic of its own!

She had something to say about this case and has insight to what goes behind the scenes of losing a family member on Koh Tao!

you could of course start your own thread on the surat/samui forum and relay her comments there

It has just been done -

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/885713-ko-tao-news-re;-double-murder-of-sept-14/

Shame it has been locked ! Would have been nice to see it run its coarse!

Following on from Jane Taupin's excellent piece reported in Bkk post on how the dna process was practically hogwash, this latest fb post from Hannah's sister really nails down the rtp attitude to truth and justice.What a bunch of callous b******ds they are on that island.Let's hope the thread can be reopened soon, the pressure should be maintained from all angles on this miscarriage of justice.

Initially regarding Luke's death i didn't want to join in mob hysteria thinking "here goes, yet another 'murder'?". I thought give benefit of the doubt until the facts are revealed. But then I realised the facts being revealed depended on our trust in the rtp in that dreadful place. Fat chance of the truth coming out if there was anything suspicious relating to his death.

Because whether or not Luke's death was an accident or a murder, it's guaranteed that sooner or later there will be another killing or rape or both. Why? Because the killers of Hannah and David are still there on that island living freely with their gang of cowards. Doubtless it's happened before. Doubtless it will happen again. Because they can kill without fear of conviction, rape with impunity, hidden and protected by corrupted officials and by threat of death to any witnesses or anyone else who can expose their vile practices.

Well done too Boomer for opening that thread. It really should be continued IMO. there is so much new detail being revealed right now.

"Dangerous riptide, no warning flags, locals don't tell you until it's too late. Happens every year."

Swimming pools are more dangerous than the ocean.

Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs on Earth.

Diving into a swimming pool is stupid.

Alcohol + Swimming Pool + Stupidity = Death.

Any questions?

"Swimming pools are more dangerous than the ocean" - What a ridiculous statement!

Yeah you're right,I guess, swimming pools have really violent riptides and undertows.

And I must admit they never display warning flags.

Methinks excess alcohol mixed with stupidity might be the danger not the pool, as it can be wherever you are:diving,driving,mowing the lawn, whatever.

A dangerous sea will take you stone cold sober if you're unaware of it's dangers, especially a young child or a weak swimmer.

People who organise these events have a "duty of care"...

Given the event, and drink was freely available, I certainty feel the organisers should be held accountable...

• did they conduct a risk assessment?
• if there was barbed wire to prevent revealers climbing up on top of the DJ hut, who checked it as being fit for purpose?
• when was it last checked?
• was the victim the only person "tombstoning into the pool"?
• what actions were taken by the management to stop it?
• was the DJ or other members of staff encouraging it?

Duty of care is a lovely concept and in any civilised country it's top of the agenda when organising events. However we're talking about Thailand. Where in Thailand have you ever been where duty of care and/or safety have been of paramount importance?

You only have to stroll through any city's streets to see unfenced gaping holes in the pavements leading directly to a sewer, non-existent(or at least unenforced) traffic safety regulations, rusty dilapidated fairground rides, masses of low-hanging electric cables along many streets, deadly beaches with vicious undertows with no warning flags(as in Rayong where countless kids get sucked under to their deaths)... I could go on and on...

No Thailand is not yet such a civilised country that recognisesand implements duty of care. On top of that we're talking about Kho Tao, an island that condones murders and protects it's well-heeled killers. What do they care about duty of care?

If the money's rolling in, then everything's tickety-boo on that crap-hole. Sad but true.

Thailand is a developing country income-wise, you can't expect the infrastructure to be up to Western standards, if it is one day, then the prices will be too. Countless kids die in Rayong really? Regarding safety overall, how many farangs have been electrocuted by electric cables, fallen down unforeseen potholes?

Thailand has millions of visitors a year, the number who die is minimal.

This doesn't apply just to farangs. Their own kids suffer too. Safety applies to everyone.

As for Rayong...yes really.

I was there when one young boy drowned and i met other parents who had lost their kids there. Try telling them it's ok the number who die is minimal.

I hazard a guess you're not a parent. Safety becomes paramount when you look after children.

Dangerous riptide, no warning flags, locals don't tell you until it's too late. Happens every year.

http://www.khonkaen.ws/mae-ramphueng-beach-mystery-deaths

People who organise these events have a "duty of care"...

Given the event, and drink was freely available, I certainty feel the organisers should be held accountable...

• did they conduct a risk assessment?
• if there was barbed wire to prevent revealers climbing up on top of the DJ hut, who checked it as being fit for purpose?
• when was it last checked?
• was the victim the only person "tombstoning into the pool"?
• what actions were taken by the management to stop it?
• was the DJ or other members of staff encouraging it?

Duty of care is a lovely concept and in any civilised country it's top of the agenda when organising events. However we're talking about Thailand. Where in Thailand have you ever been where duty of care and/or safety have been of paramount importance?

You only have to stroll through any city's streets to see unfenced gaping holes in the pavements leading directly to a sewer, non-existent(or at least unenforced) traffic safety regulations, rusty dilapidated fairground rides, masses of low-hanging electric cables along many streets, deadly beaches with vicious undertows with no warning flags(as in Rayong where countless kids get sucked under to their deaths)... I could go on and on...

No Thailand is not yet such a civilised country that recognisesand implements duty of care. On top of that we're talking about Kho Tao, an island that condones murders and protects it's well-heeled killers. What do they care about duty of care?

If the money's rolling in, then everything's tickety-boo on that crap-hole. Sad but true.

Unfair to speculate given the facts haven't come out.

Yet understandable also for the same reason.

After all there are murderers living there above the law who seemingly can kill with impunity and hide behind their cowardly friends.

Really hope this is just an accident. RIP young man.

Good ol' U.S. of A.

Got to admire a country that stands up for its rights and allows its citizens to bear arms. God forbid they should alter their law and prevent their fundamental right to slaughter schoolkids and shoot policemen and generally piss people off.

The NRA must be very proud of itself.

My Grandad lived to his 90s too. Not an alcoholic, just enjoyed a drink. Even insisted on a wee drop of something in his coffee.

"Has this cup of coffee got something in it?"

"No, Grandad."

"Well don't just stand there. Put something in it!"

On this subject...met a girl a few yrs ago,who invited me to stay with her family for the night...in the morning i was ready to leave but in passing said i was calling into Tesco for some odds & ends..she said can "we" come...sure i can give you a lift..with that the "family" all jumped in my truck......mum/dad/2 brothers/2sisters + an other.

On arrival at tesco they grabbed a trolly and disappeared...in a few minutes i got what i needed paid and waited for them...fully 45 minutes later they showed with the trolly overloaded,it took 2 of them to push it....i thought ..HOLD ON..who's paying here...as they got to cashier the girl said "you pay,you have money"...i said "YES OF COURSE" let me go to car to get money...with that was out into the car park & gone...Lewis hamilton would not have got away quicker...Last i saw of her was running after my truck shouting & screaming...i did pick up a few words like "cheap charlie"....to this day i often wonder how much it would have come to.

Hahaha yes some of them certainly like to try it on. Not Thai-bashing or tight-fisted but this reminded me of an incident a few years back.

I'd just found a new place to live, nice detached house been stood empty a while but needed a lot of cleaning-up. A girl I'd befriended offered to clean it for me and duly arrived with a couple of friends and set to their task. Did a great job. I paid them the agreed amount and as a bonus I offered to treat them all to a meal out that same evening at a nice restaurant I knew.

Picked them up in the evening and my friend subtly diverted me to another restaurant she "preferred". On arrival found a table filled with about a dozen or so of her friends/family/God-knows-who.

Not being totally green or without experience as to Thai ways I asked before sitting down what's going on and who's expected to foot the bill here. As if I needed to ask. Yours truly of course.

After explaining that I was inviting the 3 of them as a thank you for a job well done I told them I'm not paying for the whole clan. After sitting down for a drink and a quick bite she asked me would I pay the bill this once. No way I said, thoroughly brassed off at the cheek of it all.

In the end I made my excuses and left early leaving 500 towards the bill. End of friendship. Phew!

To this day I never knew if I had been diverted to an ongoing family get-together or whether these extra guests had been invited after I made the offer.

I'm not cheap and would gladly have paid three times that amount for the 4 of us to have a nice meal but obviously like most people I don't like the feeling of people assuming I'm an ATM on legs.

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

"the dog ate my homework". Brilliant! Wish I'd thought of that. Sums it up perfectly.

Maybe they fed dna to their police dogs too. Certainly wasn't preserved as vital evidence should be. Still I guess they couldn't preserve what they never had in the first place.

On this lie two more lives are now in peril.

'Although it accepts that the case ... was not without flaws [which] include lack of chain of custody in evidence, arrest and interrogation of the two suspects without charge or legal representation and a lack of any witness who saw the two defendants committing the crimes.' Amazing Thailand, amazing justice.

To say 'this case is not without flaws' is pretty much the same as saying 'a glass vase which has shattered into a thousand pieces is not without cracks'

Just one other thought. Why does anyone bother replying to the Hang 'em High brigade? Surely if you met scum like this in a pub you wouldn't give 'em the time of day.

These animals are defenders of murderers and rapists.

They don't care about the truth,for the majority they don't even believe themselves what they type. They know as well as we do that the B2 didn't commit these crimes but revel in their death sentences like vultures around carrion.

Turn your backs on 'em. They're not worth the effort it takes to type on the keyboard.

Weeeeeeeeeeell, my thoughts...Folk have interests in KT that pay for nooooo probs there, if you get my drift..........Internet has nutters that just lurk and talk crap to wind folk up.....That's the way it is.....We just have to go along with their crap or say nothing, but if WE say nothing they dribble more and have a 'high'...I am no saint, I am not a Uni guy, but I can smell these folk a mile off.......I will say no more because...

I know what you 're saying. But i don't reply to any of them. I'm all for open discussion from well-informed well-meaning parties but some of these guys are akin to the smelly stuff you scrape off the bottom of your shoe, not capable of human or humane thoughts and feelings or informed debate. Scum like i said. I wouldn't help them get their rocks off. In fact I've got a sizeable group of them in my Blocked list. Helps me keep the bile down.

Just one other thought. Why does anyone bother replying to the Hang 'em High brigade? Surely if you met scum like this in a pub you wouldn't give 'em the time of day.

These animals are defenders of murderers and rapists.

They don't care about the truth,for the majority they don't even believe themselves what they type. They know as well as we do that the B2 didn't commit these crimes but revel in their death sentences like vultures around carrion.

Turn your backs on 'em. They're not worth the effort it takes to type on the keyboard.

since there are many accusations about the integrety of the DNA testing and results and the judge has asserted that the conviction was based on the DNA tests and a couple of posters on here also claim that the defence team refused to retest and that all original samples are still available, there seems to be a very obvious and simple solution.

If the defence team refused why didn't the prosecution/police have the DNA retested independently "from the original samples" (that some here claim they still have) at the Central Institute of Forensic Science a department of the ministry of justice in Bangkok, wouldn't that have removed once and for all the speculation surrounding the DNA, if the defence as claimed refused to do this then surely this would have been a slam dunk for the prosecution

Pretty simple really unless they had something to hide

so none of the hangem high brigade got any comment about my post ? lol

also since you constantly post about how the defence refused to retest the DNA I thought this Idea would be one you would approve

unless of course the DNA evidence was fabricated and nothing of the claimed original samples exist to have indepently retested

the silence is deafening

I rest my case

The Myanmar government have officially now requested a fundamental review and investigation of this case through diplomatic channels with foreign media as observers, that would ultimately involve a complete independent retesting of all evidence

If the Thai government agree to this (I don't see how they can refuse) then we may just see some truths emerge

Exactly. If there was ever ANY credible evidence...I mean real evidence to prove the B2s guilt, not just "We say there is and they did it", then surely the BIB would have done everything possible to bring it to court, would have ensured a valid chain of custody for that evidence and produced a watertight case that left no doubt as to the B2 guilt; they would have produced the semen samples for the defence to check dna because it would prove their own case and cleared up any doubts; they would have produced a murder weapon linking the B2 to the killing which they could not do. A supposed murder weapon was produced with dna on it but am i right in thinking we still don't know whose dna it is but that it definitely isn't B2s? Didn't help to prove their case so it was ignored. If the evidence was so convincing then surely the BIB would also encourage accurate press reporting and insist on correct translations from competent translators so the truth could be known worldwide too. Instead the opposite was done. No cover-up?

There is such an overwhelming lack of viable proof and evidence I remain mystified as to why the defence team didn't go for the jugular more strongly. Was it just self-preservation? The BIB even had the temerity to show surprise at one point that the defence were defending too aggressively. Remember that? But this aggression seemed to me to tail off shortly afterwards.The Australian international dna expert who could have been a vital defence witness was ignored completely and Thailand's own expert's testimony was apparently ignored as irrelevant by the court too.

So no proof, no evidence,no witnesses, no murder weapon.Even the crime scene photos were kept hidden from the court. We've all seen them online, maybe they weren't very helpful in proving the scapegoats' guilt and showed up incompetent crime scene procedures more. "The budget wouldn't stretch" ...what a sick joke! Anybody really believe that crap? Christ! All they needed was a handydrive and an overhead projector. How expensive can it be!

Why didn't Scotland Yard say anything? Then why did they have to come? So you guys also don't trust them?

Scotland Yard went to observe the investigation.

They did not investigate anything.

They only observed.

Under UK law they are not allowed to comment on this case as it involves a death penalty.

The UK police have no jurisdiction in Thailand, and what ever folk think or believe they would never be part of another sovereign state's investigation where there is the possibility of a death sentence

Correct about what Scotland Yard did/didn't do as regards investigating.

Pretty much the same as Thai police did I'd say.

There are so many posts to wade through here I would like to ask a simple question to get something clear.

Has any DNA belonging to the B2 been found on or in either of the murdered people? The UK examination said there was no sign of rape but what of foreign DNA?

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere but just too many posts to check.

No. At least no valid evidence produced. The police just claimed there was. Must be true,right?

Honestly guys, this case presented by the Thai police for me goes little further than finger pointing, it's like standing up in court pointing at someone and saying - they did it, case closed.......... guilty

The evidence they presented goes little beyond finger pointing simply because they cannot back it up in any convincing way - it really is as simple as that

I wish they had been able to back it up because I'd be first in line cheering as the guilty were hanged and it would have made me very happy indeed.

Whether B2 are guilty or not I just cannot sit comfortably with this verdict based on what was presented by the police, it just doesn't sit well with me and for that I am sorry

Absolutely. Nailed it. You put my very thoughts into words. Flimsy doesn't qualify...it's just non-existent claptrap.

Just the need the BIB finger-pointing photo to wrap it up.

No way they're guilty. Four victims in this case, 2 dead, 2 sentenced to death.