AnnieT

The Junta should have frozen all their assets from day 1. Any ill gotten gains have been squirreled 'offshore' a long time ago

The Shins life is a giant game of snakes and ladders. Award yourself a countrywide telecoms monopoly, yipeee! Get fined half a trillion after an ill thought out raid on the state coffers, oooops!

Maybe she can borrow some from her brother? It was all his idea anyway.

i'm a bit confused.

Did she gain from the rice scheme? (i mean: did she steal money from the pot) ?

if she didnt, then why on earth does she need to pay out of her own pocket ??

as much as I am against the shinawartas, I just dont think its fair to make her pay (from her own money) unless she stole or gained.

- Please correct me if I am wrong on facts

in most countries, if someone makes false promises, then the money comes from the Government Budget... and there may be some sort of 'no confidence vote'

or they lose the next election.

but I never heard of anyone paying out their own pocket for lies while in office.

If her name was anything other than Shinawatra, I doubt the good General would want to establish a precedent for holding a Prime Minister responsible for a plan not working out as intended, or a subsidy that did not show a profit (there has never been one) due to corruption among the downstream participants.

Still, the precedent set, come the day, perhaps the good General may find himself paying the piper for the tune he was instructed to choose. What goes around, comes around.

Trust doesn't come into it. Life teaches us not to trust people to do the right thing.

I trust the Lord. Everyone else pays cash.

Unless H.E. Mark Kent is a career diplomat, there is actually every chance that he doesn't understand very much about Thailand - if anything at all.

Ambassadorships are very often political appointments, and, in this respect, America is no different to the majority of countries around the world.

An ambassadorship can be, and most likely is, a reward by a serving head of state (Obama?) to someone who has helped such head, politically.

These ambassadors are not obliged to know very much about the countries they are appointed to.

Well, he has specialist staff to advise him. Plus, to have clambered thus far up the greasy pole, he will have a pretty good understanding of people and their behaviour. Democracy and it's working too I should think.

Thais rather like to pretend they're surpassingly subtle and shrewd, but there are only a few buttons to press, most of them related to self-interest in one way of another. Or face too of course, though that's in the same forlorn (and pretty primitive) basket of motivators.

A supplementary explanation prompted by a couple of people sniffing around my profile - on the look-out for a pretext perhaps. The expression 'primitive motivators' does not imply primitive people and is not pejorative in any way. I can tell you that we all have primitive (meaning evolutionarily old) motivators and nationality is unimportant.

For the avoidance of doubt. And misunderstanding.

Ooh lovely. I love surprises. I wonder what they could be...

Democracy?

No more coups?

Corruption to stop?

Soldiers to surrender for treason charges?

All of them?

Pigs soaring in graceful formation across the night sky?

So lack of knowledge about the men in Malaysia is the reason for not sending two guys down to interview them..

Ummmmm....no.

Stands to reason though. No tip-off, no work. The Thai way - standard operating procedure.

Unless H.E. Mark Kent is a career diplomat, there is actually every chance that he doesn't understand very much about Thailand - if anything at all.

Ambassadorships are very often political appointments, and, in this respect, America is no different to the majority of countries around the world.

An ambassadorship can be, and most likely is, a reward by a serving head of state (Obama?) to someone who has helped such head, politically.

These ambassadors are not obliged to know very much about the countries they are appointed to.

Well, he has specialist staff to advise him. Plus, to have clambered thus far up the greasy pole, he will have a pretty good understanding of people and their behaviour. Democracy and it's working too I should think.

Thais rather like to pretend they're surpassingly subtle and shrewd, but there are only a few buttons to press, most of them related to self-interest in one way of another. Or face too of course, though that's in the same forlorn (and pretty primitive) basket of motivators.

Okay now I'm worried about staying in Thailand. ... Time to get out ...

Keep coooool, Tukky ... Obviously you simply do not understand how things work in this country ... But don't worry --- no outsiders do understand ...

Well, to be fair, a number of retirees and other fugitives from their country of origin seem to be feeling the same way. Vietnam is the trend at the moment, if the talk is anything to go by. Everyone has their threshold of tolerance, I know I'm getting close to mine.

Not that the good general will worry about that I'm sure, he has bigger fish to fry than me, and right now seems concerned that he may end up in the deep fryer himself.

We have all heard this refrain many times; no one except a Thai person can know what is going on in Thailand. Many people, not Thai, including governments, academics, NGO's, and yes, even some of us expats who have lived here for a while and sincerely want Thailand to succeed. There are also some Thais who understand, but speaking up results in an invitation to an attitude adjustment. The common thread of these folks is a fundamentally historical analysis drawn upon 10's of not hundred's of countries that went through a similar metamorphosis.

At the center of the question: what is going on in Thailand? - the inescapable remainder is that what the PM thinks is going on is fundamentally different than what all of the other other people, non Thai and Thai alike think is going on. Given this difference that seems to be defined as existential in nature, it would be useful for the PM to state what he thinks is going on and the underlying analysis of how he got to his conclusions.

For the past 50 years the republican party in the United States has governed using euphemisms, like freedom and liberty and fear of change, fear of inclusion, fear of black and brown people, and more recently, yellow people also. But, the real thinking and beliefs and the underlying battles were hidden and no one talked about what was really going on. Until now. Thanks to the much needed social change that has been effected by the Obama administration and victories in the courts and thanks to the narcissist, Donald Trump, what has been really going on has come to the surface, into the light of day. And it is the most healthy phenomenon to happen to the American democratic system in at least 50 years.

So, clarity about what is exactly going on in Thailand would, perhaps, be a first step.

I agree that a certain clarity is lacking. But then many of the military types are not being exactly honest or forthright, so it's understandable. Clear as mud really...

I agree that foreigner do not understand Thailand completely, e.g. some of the finer details of how they are dividing the goods among the government officials and exact amount of tea money when and to whom, can be confusing for many foreigners, and we will probably never really understand this finely tuned system.

That aside, I do believe, like others, that the PM is referring to H.E. Mark Kent's blog. In his blog post about democracy he talks of "the components of civil society – including a free press, charities, NGOs, religious organisations and international bodies such as the UN – all have a key role to play in a democracy." I think that is a sound advise that many of the world's nations would agree upon, but apparently it is not an advise that Thailand can use, because here we are much more special than any other country?

In Europe different opinions and disagreement is respected, but not here. In Europe it is not uncommon to ask for outside help in e.g. international police cases, environmental issues, trafficking, copyright issues, fraud etc. etc., but not here. I believe the blog post is meant as a friendly advise, that if you do not allow disagreement, the road to democracy will be a very long one - perhaps never.

Saying that H.E. doesn't understand Thailand is a bit of a stretch, he is after all the official representative of his government and therefore has access to much more information and intelligence reports than any ordinary person will ever have.

Such childish remarks from a PM doesn't really go well with the international community if you want to be respected by others - and really want that coveted UN Security Council seat.

Childish remarks! What childish remarks? He told the truth and about time too. Foreigners stay out of Thai affairs. Is that childish to say that? Pls explain...

If Thailand wants to play in the international game, then they better be able to accept the rules, which INCLUDE criticism about things. If not, then close the borders to all foreigners, and their businesses, and see how long it takes to descend into total anarchy.

We may be in the process of watching that happen anyway. I feel quite dismal about what's happening in the wild wild east just at the moment. Not my usual optimistic. tolerant and accommodating self just lately.

All seems a bit precious krapom.

I think the game plan is for Abhisit to make a few criticisms so that when he comes to endorse the Junta's final version, he can argue he fought the good fight and managed to influence drafting for the better.

It will still be an anti democratic piece of crap.But since when has Abhisit genuinely wanted a solution different from the old elites.

He's not a bad man and certainly not a stupid one but his political hopelessness and inability to win elections has driven him into some dark corners.

Idiotically I still have hopes of him.

Alas mine evaporated when he lied about LM charges to the Oxford Student Union. It became clear at that point, exactly what Mark is.

I doubt this leopard is capable of changing its spots, and to that extent, I echo your own comment regarding the elites.

The National Strategic Reform and Reconciliation Committee

also known as the Bangkok Tactical Status-Quo and Suppression Clause

was, is, and always will be the poison pill designed to cause rejection of the Charter,

and further delay.

It certainly does appear to be that way. The late entrance of the clauses suggest either that they were trying to slip something under the door (you know, like they allege others did), or it was indeed, the nuclear option.

Oh dear; 'attitude adjustment' coming up !

Why do you people keep making these comments ?.

He will be in trouble if he tries to instigate division in society which will cause violence. That's all. After the murders during the last protests and the members of that same faction here spraying their keyboard with spit as they predict an imminent peoples uprising and communist revolution, it is for good reason.

How clear do you need it spelling out ?.

Clearer than this I suspect. I do not agree with what you say. nor, by inference, what you seem to think.

...don't forget to tell the UN how you spent 6 months getting the price of Thai lottery tickets down to 80baht...the UN will be impressed

Your idea of a joke ?? is that all you can post ?? ridiculous your post suggests that is all the PM has done in 1 year, your post is an April fool one-----get real. we all do not find a military government ideal, but is more good than the last lot, it IS an improvement. I dislike military rule in general, but prefer it to near total corruption.

Seems like a reasonable assessment. How would *you* summarise the progress achieved by the illegal junta?

How would *you * say the illegal junta is an improvement on the previous democratically elected government?

Answer came there none. In this case, the missing answer is so much more eloquent than the non-missing ones.

Any question now who the masters are?

Not a good sign. Thailand bends over. Whatever happened to Thai pride?

The "new normal" will be that the other ASEAN nations will surpass Thailand in economic and population growth for the next 10 years unless Thailand can stabilize its political environment. Thailand will only be the hub of wishful hopes.

Thailand's next constitution and authority of the Thai military will decide if Thailand remains a developing country or becomes a developed industrial nation. And while the military holds power now, it will be the Thai people themselves who will make the decision for their future.

Agreed. I think Thailand is in decline. And there is no shortage of SEA nations very willing (if not gleeful) to put the boot in.

Thailand doesn't have any friends. It did that to itself. and it's doing it's decline to itself. It might well turn out that the stupid foreigners who 'don't understand the incredibly smart and ineffably subtle Thainess' actually understood Thais better than they understood themselves.

I expect all will become clear in time.

...don't forget to tell the UN how you spent 6 months getting the price of Thai lottery tickets down to 80baht...the UN will be impressed

Your idea of a joke ?? is that all you can post ?? ridiculous your post suggests that is all the PM has done in 1 year, your post is an April fool one-----get real. we all do not find a military government ideal, but is more good than the last lot, it IS an improvement. I dislike military rule in general, but prefer it to near total corruption.

Seems like a reasonable assessment. How would *you* summarise the progress achieved by the illegal junta?

How would *you * say the illegal junta is an improvement on the previous democratically elected government?

Guys you forget one paramount thing...any language has to be practiced or it will be diminished...sometimes it is even difficult for the first few minutes to speak in my native language due of lack of practise...and when does the average Thai need to communicate in English on a daily base???

Absolutely correct. Language needs to be reinforced on a daily basis. Small village, English classes with a native English speaker for 1, 2, 3 hours a week, leave the classroom, go home, speak Thai to family and friends, is not a good environment in which to learn a second language. Families cannot do it but Thai teachers should attempt to interact with the students as they learn English together.

The Thai kids I know all have activities after school, weekends and vacations that involve some form of educational activity.

Agreed. When I was teaching I was surprised at how much time they were putting in and hoe ineffective it was at generating actual knowledge.

In addition, Thai teachers put in a lot of hours.

Attendance is not the point, you can sit on your bottom for 6 hours, not actually learn anything and get a nice pretty and meaningless certificate at the end, But it isn't learning. The problem in most Thai schools and Universities is that the two things are confused. Learning requires participation and not just attendance.

There needs to be a totalitarian dictatorship in one area of Thailand. Education. Hire one from Singapore not Cambridge. One does not need to be a brain trust. Rote learning over and over again learn 100 English words and when that is done learn another 100. Over and over again speak English. Forget the grammar lessons. Speak and understand. Speak with the mouth and understand with computer games in English. Forbid anyone who can't speak and understand at least 200 words in English from teaching.

It is basic. Teach with rote learning until the basics are taught. India and the Philippines get all the outsourced English help lines both countries could supply English speaking teachers for Thai prices.

This is Asia not America. Cheap English teachers are available from native English speakers in Asia.

Indians and Philipinos, working under a totalitarian dictatorship? I can't see it.

Rote learning? The brain of a child works at a different frequency than that of an adult. Their like sponges, soaking up everything they can find. At this stage of life you need lots of language input, and the development and use of the imagination. You need other things, too. Rote learning creates lifeless drones and gives control to those in power.

Indians and Philippines supply the majority of workers to Saudi Arabia don't they? Rote learning is how 99% of the basics of education is taught. How did you learn addition, subtraction, times tables, the months, chemical elements? I've noticed that people who know little about rote learning rarely have a degree. You would not think that would you? 30 days hath September.

Rote learning is how 99% of teaching is taught? Are you sure about that? I really hope that you are not a teacher and if you are then you are a big part of the problem. The Thai education system is all about rote learning and that is why it is failing, not just in English but all subjects.

Rote learning has a place; I believe a large part of the lack of numeracy skills in kids is because rote learning (times tables) was stopped.

But it isn't a technique for all purposes, It has value when something must be embedded in the unconscious mind for automatic retrieval later (eg '12x12=144' or 'London is the capital of England' - I know it, I don't have to work it out with a calculator or look up an atlas). But it cannot and should not replace critical thinking, which I suspect it does in Thailand. There has to be an optimum learning balance.

There are many good points made here. It would be interesting and enjoyable if we could put together a face-to-face roundtable discussion on the topic of foreign language learning sometime after I return to Bangkok in the third week of November.

There seems to be the assumption that all Thai students must develop good English language skills. That may not be necessary. Many Thai people can probably get along just fine with minimal skill in English. The instructional effort would be better directed at students who show talent and an aptitude for learning foreign language.

I have been in education for 50 years and can't remember a time when education wasn't in crisis everywhere. Perhaps we should lower our sights. Remember that tests of general intelligence over broad populations tend to produce a bell curve. Those who fall in the upper half of the distribution will, according to their individual talents, do better in academic endeavors. Those who fall in the bottom half of the curve may do well in non-academic endeavors. There are always exceptions but to try to make all students perform as if they were in the upper half of the curve will always be frustrating - even futile.

Culture and educational philosophy play a big role in differing countries. The Nation seems to be saying that English language instruction needs to be fixed so that every Thai student will gain at least moderate skills in English. This is at a time when interest in the study of foreign language in the USA has fallen off a cliff. High schools have stopped requiring foreign language study and colleges have either decreased the number of semesters that a foreign language must be studied or, for some majors, eliminated the tequirement entirely.

Since Thailand is a nation that makes a lot from tourism, encouraging foreign language study seems useful but certainly not everyone needs to speak a foreign language fluently.

I don' think anyone has said that all Thais must speak English (or any foreign language) fluently. So far as I'm aware, the decision to adopt English as a second national language has already been taken, so I doubt there is much point talking about it. Competence is important, though as with just about everything else, we are waiting for the government to do something other than make a plan, create a committee and do anything other than just talk about it.

That's the problem Thailand has. It just drifts from one foul-up to another.

because the Thai economy is closely interlinked with the international economy.

Ah. It's all the fault of other countries. many of whom are doing just fine thank you very much.

Not the fault of the government for being incompetent, stealing power from an elected government, and definitely not because off the repression they have to apply to stop power being taken back.

Of course, this is not what he'll be saying at the UN, but today he is speaking to the Thai audience, many of whom are as dim and mendacious as he is so it's OK, he can say what they want to hear - doesn't have to be true, they wouldn't know the difference anyway.

I would be grateful if someone can explain this to me.

If a person enters a country other than their own, seeking asylum in possession of 'person of concern' documents or not, should they not make themselves known to immigration on their point of entry?

The way the OP reads to me is that Thai authorities had no knowledge of their status prior to the raid, they found people with overstays to their visas and sent them to the IDC iaw their normal procedures.

If the above is correct, who is in the wrong?

Hypothetically, if the people seeking asylum do contact immigration or another agency and the official is corrupt and exploits thenm instead of handling them according to regulations, how is the asylum-seeker to know?

Regrettably, Thailand is notorious for this kind of corruption and the money goes upwards to keep the wheels oiled and turning.. There is absolutely no incentive for it to stop. Yet. And yes, you're right, Thailand is a signatory bit is a signatory for appearances' sake and breaches it's obligations with impunity. It doesn't kane western conventions seriously because...

But the world has noticed, and retribution is coming. The wheels grind slow but they grind fine.

Thailand and its neighbours produce enough white stuff. No need for more.

Yep, Colombian caught with over 20kg. of 'talcum powder' at swampy today... Diplomatic mistake probably, maybe just 'a sample' as a present, as 'the concept' could be; you protect us, we bring our stuff in Thailand and sell it in bordering countries, the money comes back to Thailand, and is washed here and then 're-invested' in a legit way in Columbia, no 30% for you in the deal, better, more, a lot: we split halves with you! No doubt all would reject such a proposal...

That's a really troubling speculation. Maybe Thailand is on the verge of being in some serious trouble. Can you imagine what the USA and China would think?

I venture to suggest Thailand doesn't want that kind of extra trouble, but I wonder how much influence the government has to prevent it... I imagine the market in Asia is huge.

What does the 'test' actually 'test'? Thailand doesn't have a reputation for logical, objective-base testing.

The question as I see it since I'm comparing Finland and Thailand (both had problems Thailand still does) is what does Finland test.

Pretty much the same test applies in all countries, there's a good degree of consistency, which is important. Finland is an extraordinary success story in recent years. The difference between Thailand and Finland (in my personal view, shared by some, not shared by others) is one of social philosophy. Finland does not have a rapacious desire to keep large slices of its people poor and uneducated in order to provide cheap labour to enrich a tiny minority. Thailand does.

What does the 'test' actually 'test'? Thailand doesn't have a reputation for logical, objective-base testing.

if you mean IQ test, most IQ tests are not developed in Thailand, uniformity across continents is important if global numbers are to mean anything in comparison.

And yes, TL doesn't have a good reputation, but it doesn't have that much leeway for interpretation of methods and results either. Results also have to correlate to previous test results as well, so the opportunity for the inevitable Thai cheating is more limited.

Most people, if they don't like the results, say the tests are not useful; that can be ignored, or they say EQ is imortant but they don't understand that IQ and EQ are related.

The tests aren't perfect but they are reliable indicators and the results do indicate something - otherwise of course, Thais wouldn't do them since they've had poor results since forever. Too much face to lose if you have a choice so it's a good job they don't have a choice. Better to pretend they're not important; thankfully the world outside Thailand doesn't agree with them.

Worryingly, some children in the North of Thailand have scores down to below 70. That is prima faciae evidence of neglect by successive governments for whatever reason - we can all take a guess at the reasons.