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lostboy
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Posts posted by lostboy
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Yes but under the laws you want it is ten times easier for anyone of that criminal mind to go into and STAY without question because any such law would intimidate any person taking notice .... it is a FREE PASS the way you want it ... a free pass to loiter around in the restroom of kids ...
Just what the hell do you think goes on in women's toilets?
I once walked into a women's toilet in Mexico City just of Zocalo Square in my first every overseas trip to the US and Mexico in my late teens. The hue and cry from the large Mexican ladies was enormous.
There are laws against inappropriate activity. They are not weakened by Title IX of the Civil Rights Act. If a person in a female toilet starts acting inappropriately or unlawfully, then they will be dealt with by the law. All these old white men and their toilet-sexploitation fantasies.
Cross referenced with the ultimate in Junk Science to diminish the dignity of a minority.
The law applies to women's locker rooms and as far as I know ladies get naked and take showers and change clothes.
That would mean that the women would be exposed to male genitalia in the shower. I think there are some women who would not like this. What do you think?
It's OK with me if women want to shower with me in the boys locker room but I don't know if they feel the same way.
What law? You mean HB2? Well that also says that LGBT people can be denied public services and employment because of their biological status. Or do you mean Tennessee's Bil 1840 that would continue to allow so called reparative therapy for LGBT youth and deny them access to LGBT counselling. Or do you mean MIssissippi HB1523 that removes protection from LGBT people who are denied services because of religious hatred.
For someone who continually preaches to us that you only deal with the facts, your beat up of locker room issues removes your claim to any moral high ground. Locker rooms are not the same as toilets. Toilets are public accommodations for bodily functions. Locker rooms are for different purposes. You want to talk locker rooms or you want to talk about schools dealing with trans teens, then at least be intellectually honest about it and not conflate the issue with the potty fear campaign.
Locker rooms, changing facilities, showering facilities are all under the responsibility of a management structure, whether public or private, whether effective or not. Those who manage such facilities have a duty to implement systems that ensure safety, quality and fairness to all their customers. There are many options for this without the need for puerile, base and common comments like having women shower with men in the boys room.
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Ol' Trans is way past the stud thing, but for sure my todger will not work if l feel uncomfortable in the loooo..
In your day people may be been light hearted or accepting about others (although not in the case of the immigrants from the Caribbean I am sure) but in my day, where I grew up, there were regular bashings and deaths of people like me just walking down the street in the evening. That was the consequence of the dominant culture and cultural stereotypes and it is painful to see it repeated by a certain group of like minded people on here.
Maybe you are old enough now to sit down to pee without shame, so you can close the stall door and keep the outside world away. And let your todger do its thing unobserved.
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No amount of Faux Exaggeration and Embellishment will take away from the likelihood that child molesters will take advantage of the ability to dress as females or as effeminate males to enter restrooms or dressing rooms to take photos, take privileges and to take innocence. All due to the nearly free access under the anything goes laws that liberals / leftist want for restrooms and dressing rooms. The fact that your post is designed to drown out the obvious and refuse to discuss the issues shines through in your silly counter arguments.
Child molesters can do that now. What's your point?
Yes but under the laws you want it is ten times easier for anyone of that criminal mind to go into and STAY without question because any such law would intimidate any person taking notice .... it is a FREE PASS the way you want it ... a free pass to loiter around in the restroom of kids ...
Just what the hell do you think goes on in women's toilets?
I once walked into a women's toilet in Mexico City just of Zocalo Square in my first every overseas trip to the US and Mexico in my late teens. The hue and cry from the large Mexican ladies was enormous.
There are laws against inappropriate activity. They are not weakened by Title IX of the Civil Rights Act. If a person in a female toilet starts acting inappropriately or unlawfully, then they will be dealt with by the law. All these old white men and their toilet-sexploitation fantasies.
Cross referenced with the ultimate in Junk Science to diminish the dignity of a minority.
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The rules of this forum require respect to be shown to other posters. I note your disrespectful childish taunt directed at me. Normally I would respond in kind but the powers that be seem to have me under intensive scrutiny at the moment.
DITTO.
The statement made by the other poster is extracted and isolated for your convenience. What you think is immaterial. Clearly you are of the same mind, so you would not view that comment in any other way.
YOU VIEW IT THE WAY YOU WANT - THAT IS MY POINT. I THINK HE IS SAYING THAT PREDATORS MAKE UP 0.00001%. IF HE IS SAYING TGs ARE FREAKS HE IS WRONG. CANT SAY ANYMORE
Your legal rationale is entirely irrelevant. There are laws against sexual predators, inside or outside of bathrooms. There are no examples of trans people assaulting women or girls, men or boys in toilets. That you conflate sexual predators with trans people is promoting hate and bigotry. Turning an issue of minorities being treated equally and with dignity into a discussion of male sexual predation is promoting hatred and bigotry against such people.
AGAIN - NOT SAYING TGs ARE THE PROBLEM. WE ARE SAYING PREDATORS/DEVIATES WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT - BY PRETENDING TO BE TGs.
Who is we? Are you a person or do you claim to be elevated to sovereignty if not deified? Are you a movement? If you are, then please feel free to fight against male sexual predation in any situation.
WE ARE THOSE THAT DISAGREE WITH THE DECREE ALLOWING MALES IN FEMALE TOILETS.
Just let trans people take a piss in private without fuss. You claim allegiance to LGBT issues - this is where the rubber hits the road. In the end your moral high ground is not what you think.
WHERE DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT TIL NOW. WHO WOULD KNOW. THE ISSUE IS BEST LEFT ALONE ME THINKS - BUT NO LIBERALS HAVE TO MAKE IT AN ISSUE.
There is no evidence of trans people assaulting women or children in restrooms. Direct your anger and fear at male sexual predators who ear dresses if you wish to occupy your time but that issue is entirely unrelated to religiously inspired legislation that discriminates against LGBT people.
READ ABOVE AGAIN - SLOWLY (AND MY PREVIOUS POSTS)
Obama says schools must respect transgender identity. How is this in any way offensive,over-reach or obnoxious? He and his administration is defending the Civil Rights Act and it is the courts that will decide on this. Alarmism over male sexual predators in female dress is entirely focussed on poisoning public opinion.
NO - HE SAID THAT TO STOP MALES ENTERING FEMALE TOILETS IS NOT ALLOWED - IF THEY STATE THAT THEY ARE A TG. BUT WHO DECIDES WHO IS A REAL TG. WILL THEY CARRY A SIGN OR A CARD - OF COURSE NOT. OBAMA HAS OPENED A CAN OF WORMS. PEOPLE ARE REACTING BECAUSE HE HAS NO SOLUTION TO THE WORMS - THEN DENIES THEY EXIST. AN ATYPICAL LIBERAL/SOCIALIST SOLUTION TO A SOCIAL PROBLEM. TGs HAVE BEEN USING THE MALE/FEMALE TOILETS FOR MANY YEARS - AND THEY HAVE BEEN USING THE TG/HANDICAPPED TOILETS TOO. BUT TG ACTIVISTS CLAIM THEY DONT WANT TO USE THE TG TOILETS AS IT IS DISCRIMINATION - THEY DEMAND TGs BE ABLE TO USE THE TOILET OF THEIR CHOICE - WITHOUT REALISING THE 'DOWNSTREAM' ISSUES THIS CREATES. OK BY ME FOR ADULTS - BUT IT IS NOT OK FOR CHILDREN. THE LINE IN THE SAND THAT STATES THAT THE FEMALE TOILETS IN A CHILDREN'S SCHOOL IS OFF-LIMITS TO MALES (ALL MALES) IS A LINE THAT WE WILL NOT EASILY ALLOW TO BE CROSSED. SAFEGUARD OUR DAUGHTERS AND IT IS OK - IGNORE OUR CONCERNS AND IT IS NOT OK.
Perhaps we can discuss this further when you have yourself under control. No need to shout now.
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Your reply does not make any sense. If a person is a transgender M to F they won't use the urinal, and if F to M they can't use the urinal, so why would someone in a dress be standing behind you? Unless of course they are a guy in drag for a party, which is a whole different thing.
Mind you, I think the whole thing is a political straw man and nothing to do with the issue of which toilet to use. Why else would the POTUS involve himself in something that is none of his business ( it's a State issue, not federal )? He is only diminishing the office by doing so. Can anyone imagine George Washington doing so?
Can't even imagine George W. Bush sticking his nose into this moronc issue!
One of GW's Yale classmates is transgender. I remember this when it was first reported years ago.
In 2003, Bush hosted a 25th reunion party for his Yale University classmates. When Bush had been at Yale in the late 1960's, it had been an all-male school, but one of his classmates became a woman after sex change surgery. According to the story, the woman was not entirely sure how to introduce herself to the President, so nervously said: “You might remember me as Peter when we left Yale…" Without blinking, Bush interjected, “And now you’ve come back as yourself."http://thedailybanter.com/2015/06/hey-mike-huckabee-even-george-bush-knew-how-to-treat-transgendered-people-with-respect/
Kudos to GW for that (not much else mind you).
The thing about bigots is that they just assumed others have the same intolerance is they do and that it is socially acceptable. So they just continue putting their feet squarely in their mouths.
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No, I don't want a guy in a dress standing behind me when l am having a piss in a public Loo, isn't that totally understandable....?
well good for you. That is your preference. What has that got to do with the topic?
Transgender people are not guys in dresses. Judging people by what they wear is just as bad as judging them by the colour of their skin or their biologically determined sexual orientation or identity.
Women have a long tradition of learning how to cope with unwanted advances from scruffy, fairly, pot bellied old white slobbering a-holes who want to get their end away. Now handsome ex London cabbies need to learn the same skills whether it be inside or outside of public lavatories.
Just say no. Or maybe say yes. You might enjoy the experience. But no need to freak out in dunny unless your fear paralyses you and you can't do your business. Or go sit down to pee so nobody can stand behind or next to you. Multiple options available to you I would think.
But I ain't a fat ol' thing looking for a shag, l am an ol' thing that likes stuff as it is...
Ladies and Gents...But many places have a third option, has a wheel chair sign...If you ain't a Lady or a Gent just wonder in there then everybody happy eh...
As is your right in terms of the way you want to life your life.
I might just say however that you may be somewhat inaccurate in your use of verbs and tenses. Perhaps you were trying to say that you like stuff as you wished it had been. But let's not delve into the mysteries of the pluperfect. I would suggest that the world was never as you thought it and in any case, your right to live your life as you will doesn't extend to requiring others to live it that way.
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No, I don't want a guy in a dress standing behind me when l am having a piss in a public Loo, isn't that totally understandable....?
well good for you. That is your preference. What has that got to do with the topic?
Transgender people are not guys in dresses. Judging people by what they wear is just as bad as judging them by the colour of their skin or their biologically determined sexual orientation or identity.
Women have a long tradition of learning how to cope with unwanted advances from scruffy, hairy, smelly, pot bellied old white slobbering a-holes who want to get their end away. Now handsome ex London cabbies need to learn the same skills whether it be inside or outside of public lavatories.
Just say no. Or maybe say yes. You might enjoy the experience. But no need to freak out in dunny unless your fear paralyses you and you can't do your business. Or go sit down to pee so nobody can stand behind or next to you. Multiple options available to you I would think.
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More data is coming in and aside from a very vocal minority, most folks want perverts and trannies kept out of their bathrooms:
http://www.oregonlive.com/window-shop/index.ssf/2016/04/target_transgender_bathroom_policy.html
Well for someone whose mind seems to be pre-occupied with the peanut gallery that inhabit the Comments section of any news article, wrap your mind around this one
Gay Doritos Prompt Freak-Out http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/gay-doritos-prompt-freak-out-20150918
I am sure there are many large buttocked women who have never heard of birth control willing to march down supermarket aisles in response to this outrage eh!
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I need somebody to take responsibility for all the people that will suffer abuse thanks to appeasing the 0.000001% of freaks.
Transgerner people are not freaks or pedophiles. They are people.
Gay people are not freaks or pedophiles. We are people.
Lesbian people are not freaks or pedophiles. They are people.
That you live your life in fear gives you absolutely no right to campaign for the discrimination against people who are different from you. The statements above bring shame to humanity and diminish you. You expect to live your life in dignity, yet you would deny that to others. What a weak and shameful mind.
I am a LGTG human being and either you agree with my Liberal/Socialist views or you are a hateful person - you hater. Give me a break!! I do not believe he was saying that ALL LGTGs are freaks - and if he was, then he is out of order and wrong. The issue of the post is the protection of children - anyone saying that being GLTG is wrong IS WRONG. BUT, we are saying that children do not have the capacity to decide if they are GLTG - YET !! And they should be protected from this issue - just the same as they are protected from sex/alcohol/driving - until they are old enough to make an informed and rational decision.
So - tell me this 'oh sensitive one' - why do we have LAWS that make it illegal for anyone to kill people; that make it illegal for anyone to steal from people, that make it illegal for a person to have sex with another person against their will; that make it illegal for a man to enter a ladies toilets. WHY?? The REASON is so that people can be protected (by Police and Others) from the small minority of people who would otherwise do them harm/wrong !! And - the vast majority of these freaks who would hurt children are not GLTGs.
What we are all saying is that this decree from above is not a valid solution to the TG problem in children's toilets in schools. We are saying it will create the potential for kids to be harmed, and for young children to be traumatised. What the post was saying is that there are freaks in the world - our children need to be protected from them. If I grab a pervert going into the ladies that my daughter is using, what will he say? I am a TG and you have no right to stop me??!! We are saying this decree is making things LESS SAFE - and there ARE freaks in this world - like it or not
And let me say again - anyone that states all LGTG people are freaks or somehow inhuman is out of order and wrong.
The rules of this forum require respect to be shown to other posters. I note your disrespectful childish taunt directed at me. Normally I would respond in kind but the powers that be seem to have me under intensive scrutiny at the moment.
The statement made by the other poster is extracted and isolated for your convenience. What you think is immaterial. Clearly you are of the same mind, so you would not view that comment in any other way.
Your legal rationale is entirely irrelevant. There are laws against sexual predators, inside or outside of bathrooms. There are no examples of trans people assaulting women or girls, men or boys in toilets. That you conflate sexual predators with trans people is promoting hate and bigotry. Turning an issue of minorities being treated equally and with dignity into a discussion of male sexual predation is promoting hatred and bigotry against such people.
Who is we? Are you a person or do you claim to be elevated to sovereignty if not deified? Are you a movement? If you are, then please feel free to fight against male sexual predation in any situation. Just let trans people take a piss in private without fuss. You claim allegiance to LGBT issues - this is where the rubber hits the road. In the end your moral high ground is not what you think.
There is no evidence of trans people assaulting women or children in restrooms. Direct your anger and fear at male sexual predators who ear dresses if you wish to occupy your time but that issue is entirely unrelated to religiously inspired legislation that discriminates against LGBT people.
Obama says schools must respect transgender identity. How is this in any way offensive,over-reach or obnoxious? He and his administration is defending the Civil Rights Act and it is the courts that will decide on this. Alarmism over male sexual predators in female dress is entirely focussed on poisoning public opinion.
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Keep on googling my boy. All you do is continue to demonstrate that the fringe media are trying to earn more revenue with this alarmist clickbait. It has no relevance. The numbers are against you. There are more young, culturally inclusive people than middle aged angry straight white men in the US and in the World. They are the future. That will be Obama's true legacy.
America made a jump to the left with SCOTUS last year. It seems the angry old reactionaries are pulling out all stops to bring back the old 'values'. I don't think you lot will succeed. Most people are tolerance and want to spread tolerance and not judge people who are different.
So please, knock yourself out with the Target hunt. Post as many links as come up on your googling. I wonder, there must be links that come up that are not directed to right wing purveyors of hate and intolerance. Do you ever consider posting them?
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Target is getting rewarded alright - lost some 6 Billion so far in Revenue since its stance to let grown men into the ladies bathrooms.
You provide no evidence of this. A fluctuation in stock price can be caused by many things. Since you seem to follow such things you would know that making bets on short term indices could be unwise.
In the long term, once the courts uphold Title IX of the Civil Rights Act in the case of transgerners, Target will be rewarded for its stance.
Loud, fat bigots will be welcome to go to Walmart. Target will grow with the new demographic of under 40's who are not into division.
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So long as Obama takes personal responsibility for each and every sex crime carried out due to his allowing predators in the wrong toilets, this is all acceptable. I mean, Obama is taking personal responsibility right? And there will be many attacks, rapes and worse on a daily basis thanks to allowing beasts into kiddies "safe zones".
Or is there nobody taking responsibility? Not even the cheering lefties that forced such stupidity into law?
I know America will be swept with a Tsunami of rapes and sexual violence little 8 year old girls last sanctuary of safety (public toilets) has been violated and now marauding sexual predators will be molesting and raping them with total immunity from law enforcement.Teen girls will be forced to shower naked with boys and be raped and sexually molested. Civilised America is lost forever to sexual deviants preying on little 8 year old girls. Then there's the War On Christmas everyone is ignoring. It's all Obama's fault he is the reason America will be plagued with rapists and sex crimes and predators. America will be gripped in fear.
jaidam do you ever step back and actually listen to yourself?
The left wingers signature - total denial of any responsibility.
Wait until it is your 8 yr old daughter who's life is wrecked thanks to some predator making use of his "rights"
Years ago my daughter had a shine taken to her by the schools janitor - took her into his private accomodation once and was caught doing so. I was not amused - you probably would call it early education but my kid was only 6yrs old. I was livid and still am thinking about the whole situation. Thank christ he couldn't say it was his legal right to be alone with my 6 yr old daughter like American perverts now can.
I need somebody to take responsibility for all the people that will suffer abuse thanks to appeasing the 0.000001% of freaks.
Obama is the logical person to take responsibility since he executive ordered this clusterfcuk.
You feel so strongly about it being a good idea for perverts to share bathrooms with kids(for presumably obvious reasons) - maybe you could take legal responsibility somehow. Although it's not funny when you look at it from that angle is it?
edit to add - this whole saga is merely the natural progression of normalizing MAPs. Yes, the western leftist governments are trying everything they can to legalize pedophilia, although that term is offensive nowadays. They prefer to be called MAPs - minor attracted persons.
Transgerner people are not freaks or pedophiles. They are people.
Gay people are not freaks or pedophiles. We are people.
Lesbian people are not freaks or pedophiles. They are people.
That you live your life in fear gives you absolutely no right to campaign for the discrimination against people who are different from you. The statements above bring shame to humanity and diminish you. You expect to live your life in dignity, yet you would deny that to others. What a weak and shameful mind.
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Here's a video that's gone 'viral' - a mother protesting Trannies in her bathroom at Target:
Mother Marches Through Target With Her Family To Protest Transgender Bathroom PolicyObama haslit a fuse that will burn until this insane law is recinded.
By law, I am assuming you mean the Civil Rights Act?
Why is it the bigots think showing videos of other bigots spreading their bigotry has any meaning? Loud, uncouth, intolerant. Welcome to the American heartland. Target will be rewarded for its brave and stance against intolerance.
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To follow up on the Texas School Superintendent, this is what the Texas Attorney General has to say.
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Texas Lt. Gov. to Schools on Transgender Restroom, Locker Room Mandate: 'Do Not Enact This Policy'By Eric ScheinerMay 13, 2016 | 12:19 PM EDT(CNSNews.com) - Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick ® told school administrators they should "not enact" the policy mandated by the Obama administration that students be allowed access to restrooms and locker rooms according to their "gender identity" rather than their biological sex.Patrick made the comments Friday morning after the Obama administration issued a directive to public school officials that transgender students must be allowed to use the restroom and locker room facilities that matches their "gender identity.""I’m telling all the superintendants (sic) of Texas right now, you have about three weeks left of the school year. Do not enact this policy,” Patrick said.Well Chuck, you are such a stickler for accuracy but are you not practicing a bit of jiggery-pokery here? According to an actual recognised new source, the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-administration-to-instruct-schools-to-accommodate-transgender-students/2016/05/12/0ed1c50e-18ab-11e6-aa55-670cabef46e0_story.html, two Obama administration officials were merely defending Title IX of the Civil Rights Act and indicating that non-compliance would result in a loss of federal funding.
I don't believe there was any Executive Order or legal instrument issued by the President to require Texas to treat all of their citizens with equality and dignity. I know those concepts are pretty alien outside Austin but that's what the US Constitution says in any case.
So another political beat up by political figures from the wrong side of history promoting division and hate.
By the way, what caused this fashion statement for Texan Republican officials to adopt the Rick Perry glasses? Did they do a make over and think that these specs make them look smarter?
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Some seem to be unaware that the following words are contained in the title of this thread:
bathroom accessSome people, despite weeks of googling and the desperate clutching of straws have never demonstrated that any transgender women committed any sexual offences against females in the toilet.
So why keep the minds in the potty? Why beat up a non issue?
I guess some people don't have the guts to confront their own bigotry and need lame excuses and diversions.
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For those who make a fetish about the 'Founding Fathers':
"Delving into the Founding Fathers’ own papers indicates something altogether different. Some of the Founding Fathers leaned right, but the majority were anti-monarchists, Freemasons and atheists who held what modern historical language would term a secularist and globalist view. In some cases — like George Washington’s — this included a strong gay-friendly attitude."http://gayhistoryproject.epgn.com/historical-profiles/george-washington-gay-friendly-father-of-our-country/
Washington as Gay Friendly. Alexander Hamilton probably either Bi or Gay. http://www.queerty.com/was-founding-father-alexander-hamilton-bisexual-his-letters-suggest-so-20140704
Is the sexual orientation of the signatories to the founding documents of the United States relevant? Probably not. The issue is that Equal Treatment is enshired in the 14th Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
So Founding Fathers who were slave owners have constitutional rights extended to former slaves. Same with other minorities.
To me, this makes a complete mockery of the 'Constructionist' view that rejects the Constitution as a living document. Constructionists try to prevent social progress and consequently social justice by promoting the 'good old days' that really weren't that good after all.
Transgenders are the latest group to come out of the closet and remind everyone that they are people, citizens, with the right to equal protection. It happened with women. It happened with African Americans. It happened with Gays and Lesbians. Now it is the Transgenders turn. No big deal. The world will keep turning and people will finally understand what a Trans woman or a Trans man is and let the poop in comfort and security.
Not only is the majority of this post completely off topic, it's also patently absurd. This sort of revisionist history holds no water except for those willing to completely suspend disbelief and live in their own confirmation bias bubble. George Washington was gay friendly? 5555. Sure. And John Adams was for charter schools. And James Madison was a strong proponent of Cap and Trade.
Now then, let's get back on topic. Shall we?
The elected representatives of the good people of North Carolina see no need to make any changes to HB 2.
A North Carolina legislative leader said Wednesday he doesn't see the need to repeal or revise a law that limits protections for the LGBT community.
At a news conference on the upcoming legislative session, state Senate leader Phil Berger referred to the law as "our commonsense bathroom safety bill" for its measures governing transgender bathroom access in many public buildings.
Gender identity and sexual orientation are also excluded from statewide workplace and public accommodation protections in the law, which triggered widespread criticism from equality advocates and business leaders nationwide.
And by the way, it's beyond ironic that someone would use the term 'make a fetish' on this particular thread.
Oh good. The Potty Police are here. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbra-siperstein/will-north-carolina-be-po_b_9570480.html
So nice of you to stick your Potty Proboscis into Thaibeachlovers post. Of course, with typical boorishness you don't actually debunk anything that is stated by the sources on the social liberalism of the Founding Fathers. You merely sneer and try the off-topic play. Off topic? The whole point in the post was the 14th Amendment. No response to that. No mention of this issue. Why not?
For those whose minds are not limited to the toilet, HB2 defines minorities that may receive protection from discrimination. This definition does not extend to LGBT people. This means that the rotten people of North Carolina believe, through their bigoted legislature influenced by the religious nut bags, that the protections guaranteed under the 14th Amendment do not extend to LGBT people.
This is the crux of HB2 and similar religiously promoted hate legislation.
The fellow travellers of these fringe lunatics are promoting this discrimination by beat up the non issue of potty pandemonium http://www.joemygod.com/2016/04/24/frank-bruni-on-ted-cruz-and-potty-pandemonium/
The bigotry is shameful. The promotion of discrimination against minorities is shameful. This disgrace being touted as common sense? People afraid of transgenders. People too ignorant to try to understand transgenders. People happy in their own bigoted little world.
It is clear why you continue to diver the issue to the toilet. You have no sensible, credible or valid argument on any of the real issues. The right to Equal Protection. The right to dignity. The role of LGBT people in history. Nothing. Complete and utter intellectual bankruptcy. So of course we have to beat up the toilet issue. Talk about a fetish.
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In North Carolina it seems that common sense prevails.
"Roy Cooper NC DOJ Will Not Defend HB 2" http://www.indyweek.com/news/archives/2016/03/29/roy-cooper-nc-doj-will-not-defend-house-bill-2
"In defending his office's nondiscrimination policy and a similar policy at the state treasurer's office, Cooper says he would argue that House Bill 2 is unconstitutional. "
In all the diversion into off topic hysterics about male sexual offenders in female toilets and the beat up of the fear that is solely being generated by hate groups, primarily religious based, that are demanding the right to discriminate against LGBT people, the core issue is being shrouded. The core issue is equal protection for all people. In the US this is guaranteed in the constitution for all US citizens. As the US goes, so does the rest of the western world.
These hate bills, the existence of which seem to be completely oblivious to the Toilet Birthers, are full of discriminatory practices. Those who want to promote fear and hate deliberately promote the unrelated issues of male sexual predators. They ignore the core element of the regulations. Employers can dismiss a straight person who expresses support for marriage equality. LGBT people can be denied access to housing and public services because of their sexual orientation or gender identity. State and private employees are equally subject to the discriminatory provisions of such bills.
The promoters or hate and division are being thwarted at every turn as we see from the actual good people of North Carolina.
Re the "unconstitutional" bit. The founding fathers that wrote the constitution would probably have hung homosexuals and tarred and feathered any man they found in drag.
For those who make a fetish about the 'Founding Fathers':
"Delving into the Founding Fathers’ own papers indicates something altogether different. Some of the Founding Fathers leaned right, but the majority were anti-monarchists, Freemasons and atheists who held what modern historical language would term a secularist and globalist view. In some cases — like George Washington’s — this included a strong gay-friendly attitude."http://gayhistoryproject.epgn.com/historical-profiles/george-washington-gay-friendly-father-of-our-country/
Washington as Gay Friendly. Alexander Hamilton probably either Bi or Gay. http://www.queerty.com/was-founding-father-alexander-hamilton-bisexual-his-letters-suggest-so-20140704
Is the sexual orientation of the signatories to the founding documents of the United States relevant? Probably not. The issue is that Equal Treatment is enshired in the 14th Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
So Founding Fathers who were slave owners have constitutional rights extended to former slaves. Same with other minorities.
To me, this makes a complete mockery of the 'Constructionist' view that rejects the Constitution as a living document. Constructionists try to prevent social progress and consequently social justice by promoting the 'good old days' that really weren't that good after all.
Transgenders are the latest group to come out of the closet and remind everyone that they are people, citizens, with the right to equal protection. It happened with women. It happened with African Americans. It happened with Gays and Lesbians. Now it is the Transgenders turn. No big deal. The world will keep turning and people will finally understand what a Trans woman or a Trans man is and let the poop in comfort and security.
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More than 182,000 people have signed a pledge to boycott Target after the retailer said it would welcome transgender customers to use any bathroom or fitting room that matches their gender identity.
The boycott pledge was started by the conservative American Family Association (AFA).
"Target's policy is exactly how sexual predators get access to their victims," AFA President Tim Wildmon said in an open letter. "This means a man can simply say he 'feels like a woman today' and enter the women's restroom ... even if young girls or women are already in there."
http://www.businessinsider.com/target-boycott-over-transgender-bathroom-policy-2016-4
Target has 1,793 stores in the US. Its global workforce is 341,000. The numbers who signed this petition are only about half the size of the workforce. https://corporate.target.com/press/corporate
Not very impressive.
How many transactions would be required to reach the $72.6 billion in revenue in 2014 https://corporate.target.com/annual-reports/2014/financials/financial-highlights
Why should we be concerned with the views and beliefs of such an insignificant proportion of the Target customer population.
Do all of these people who pledge to boycott Target actually shop there? The median age of the Target customer is aged 40. So they are millennial, you know, the ones that don't support religious bigotry and discrimination. 57% of them are college educated, so you know, not the ones who only have their minds on potty issues.
So who are these people? Well you don't provide any information beyond citing the promoters of this 'boycott' as one of the very religious bigot organisations that form the coalition of support for the anti LGBT legislation. Another organisation with strong voices of bigotry and hatred is the Family Research Council. You know, the one that appointed Josh Duggar as an office holder of the organisation. The FRC, which routinely argues that LGBT people should not work with children appointed a member of a religious bigot family who confessed to sexually abusing his sisters in their family home - not even in a female toilet. FRC, AFA, all these religious bigots harbouring sex offenders at the same time they discriminate against LGBT people.
180K people? Five times more people signed the petition to keep Trump out of the UK. Again, why take notice of such a small percentage, an insignificant number, a trivial representative group of Target non-shoppers?
No - They are not bigots - they just want to protect their families... AND DID ... TARGET BELLIES UP...
Target Changes Restroom Policy After Receiving Boycott Threatshttp://associatedmediacoverage.com/target-announces-reversal-restroom-policy-boycott-threats/
From your link "they have decided to temporarily reverse the policy until they can find a new solution that ensures all of their guests are comfortable while using the restroom". Doesn't sound like belly up to me. They reaffirm their commitment to inclusiveness and respect for diversity.
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If the information above is accurate it is most certainly more than just a "delay of implementation of its earlier decision". The statement indicates that they are likely going to have a separate bathroom for these people.
Which, of course, if just common sense.
Target's announcement i that they are temporarily holding the implementation of their earlier announcement. Go find it for yourself instead of making stuff up and imposition your suppositions on their actions.
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It seems that Sprigsteen will have a tough time overcoming this level of opposition ...
No - They are not bigots - they just want to protect their families... AND DID ... TARGET BELLIES UP...
Target Changes Restroom Policy After Receiving Boycott Threats
Target temporarily delays the implementation of its earlier decision. Until a solution can be found. Please get your facts correct. This is merely a slight hiccup and is not the tidal wave of homophobes supporting religious hate legislation that you predict.
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To all those who agree with this law... I don't think you understand what it really means for the minority groups its harming...
The law will allow local governments to actively discriminate against gay and transgendered people... with no protection for these people and no rights.
It will allow businesses to be able to refuse to serve people just because of their sexual orientation. It will allow emergency services to refuse to help gay or Trans peple.
The restroom thing is just part of the implications...... It is more dangerous to force transgendered people into men's restrooms. Think how dangerous that will be for a transgendered women... and how she will feel.... Men will think she is a women in the wrong bathroom... or she would be 'outed' as a transgendered woman. There is a real risk of harassment and violence from straight men in the bathroom.... and there is no protection for her.
There is quite a bit in your post that I am unable to find in the actual law itself.
Here is a link to a PDF file of the law: http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v0.pdf
Perhaps you can point out where the law actually permits the following acts you describe as now being legal.
"It will allow businesses to be able to refuse to serve people just because of their sexual orientation. It will allow emergency services to refuse to help gay or Trans peple. (sic)"
I feel your pain Charles. Reading laws and regulations is so boring. I quite like Thai laws because once you know the formula, then reading them is quite straightforward. I am not a lawyer but in my public policy work I have now helped write several laws in Thailand and now Afghanistan. So I do understand when people struggle with comprehending the kind of language that lawyers use to essentially mask the reality of what the law is doing. It is very much an exercise in Orwellian double-speak. Well, you have to hand it to them since they make their living from people trying to push holes or exploit holes in laws so it is in their interest for such documents to be as arcane as possible.
So having taken your challenge to help you interpret the Community Reinvestment Act a while ago, I can offer some small assistance for you to understand what is in this 5 page document.
S143-422.11 makes it legal to discriminate against LGBT people in terms of both public and private services, which may include emergency services since S2.2 and S2.3 covers county and city contracting for service providers
S143-422.13 prohibits any civili action being taken against those who discriminate against LGBT people and only authorises some entity called the Human Relations Commission of the Department of Administration (which presumable congregates at the local Southern Baptist Church) to take action in cases of alleged discrimination, which in any case cannot be brought on the grounds of discriminating against LGBT people
When you read S143-422.11, you will notice the absence of sexual identity and the presence of 'biological sex'. This is what authorises discrimination against LGBT people. Although the good people of North Carolina will no doubt be in a pickle when it is confirmed that there is a biological basis to Transgenderism thus criminalising discrimination against Trans people.
I suspect when the US Solicitor General argues in the Supreme Court for the repeal of this law, this may be one of the legal strategies used.
Happy to help you any time Charles, that is if I am not too busy but you should try reading more of your own because practice makes perfect you know.
The law specifically calls it "biological sex". Nowhere does it address the 'L', 'G' or 'B'.
I think the law ill be thrown out by a federal judge anyway. It would seem to violate the 14th Amendment.
Your sarcasm is duly noted.
By the way, here are a few bathroom incidents you might not have heard about.
Well, after all that work trying to explain HB2 to you.
For those whose deliberate obtuseness is clearly an effort to elicit some response in the vain hope of gleaning some titbit to use against an antagonist, let me again explain it to you. HB2 defines protections against discrimination for a number of groups of people except LGBT people. It makes a statement of public policy that discrimination against these groups is destructive to society and society's cohesion. Therefore the rationale of HB2 is to protect minorities from discrimination. It does not extend that protection to LGBT and in the case of the T, it specifically refers to a junk-science term 'biological sex'.
If you can't understand that, then there is little to be done to assist you.
Your links all go to examples of male sex offenders. Why are you wanting me to view such trash? One example you used was posted 4 times on another thread as part of the potty paranoia being beat up by a homophobe. You have bought into this? Fine. Place yourself on the wrong side of history again.
Your nativism is not relevant here. These laws have international implications. Australia and the UK have their fair share of ignorant bigoted homophobes and transphobes also. LGBT issues moved rapidly into the mainstream. A number of things caused this. Civil Rights protests in the 70's, AID's in the 80's and the lack of government response to their citizens dying, LGBT people coming out to the point where most people now know someone who is LGBT. Trans people have been hidden longer and only recently started coming out. I have posted links to studies that show increased acceptance of Trans issues by non Trans people when they know someone who is Trans.
But it is a waste of time presenting rationalisations to you because you are not intellectually honest. Your motivation is to find chinks and weaknesses to exploit and you do this by providing a bunch of click bait from right wing rags to which people respond. You have read my other posts in response to the homophobic and transphobic baiting through the use of the male sexual predator trope. Repeating that is a waste of time.
One of these earlier posts on another threat argued your point about the 14th Amendment. But the law's anticipated early demise is no reason for people, from whatever country, not to protest the intent behind this and other laws and to support those who publicly voice their dissent such as President Obama, numerous artists both young and old and many corporates including the NBA. Even your hero, Donald Trump said it was rubbish until he got an attitude adjustment by his back room Establishment thugs.
Let's hope the fairies visit you in your dreams and you wake up an enlightened person. By the way, I make my living with words. I am acutely conscious of the differences between cynicism, the sardonic, the satirical and the sarcastic. My reply to you was gently mocking. Not sarcastic. I would have used a number of different techniques if I had wanted it to be that.
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To all those who agree with this law... I don't think you understand what it really means for the minority groups its harming...
The law will allow local governments to actively discriminate against gay and transgendered people... with no protection for these people and no rights.
It will allow businesses to be able to refuse to serve people just because of their sexual orientation. It will allow emergency services to refuse to help gay or Trans peple.
The restroom thing is just part of the implications...... It is more dangerous to force transgendered people into men's restrooms. Think how dangerous that will be for a transgendered women... and how she will feel.... Men will think she is a women in the wrong bathroom... or she would be 'outed' as a transgendered woman. There is a real risk of harassment and violence from straight men in the bathroom.... and there is no protection for her.
There is quite a bit in your post that I am unable to find in the actual law itself.
Here is a link to a PDF file of the law: http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v0.pdf
Perhaps you can point out where the law actually permits the following acts you describe as now being legal.
"It will allow businesses to be able to refuse to serve people just because of their sexual orientation. It will allow emergency services to refuse to help gay or Trans peple. (sic)"
I feel your pain Charles. Reading laws and regulations is so boring. I quite like Thai laws because once you know the formula, then reading them is quite straightforward. I am not a lawyer but in my public policy work I have now helped write several laws in Thailand and now Afghanistan. So I do understand when people struggle with comprehending the kind of language that lawyers use to essentially mask the reality of what the law is doing. It is very much an exercise in Orwellian double-speak. Well, you have to hand it to them since they make their living from people trying to push holes or exploit holes in laws so it is in their interest for such documents to be as arcane as possible.
So having taken your challenge to help you interpret the Community Reinvestment Act a while ago, I can offer some small assistance for you to understand what is in this 5 page document.
S143-422.11 makes it legal to discriminate against LGBT people in terms of both public and private services, which may include emergency services since S2.2 and S2.3 covers county and city contracting for service providers
S143-422.13 prohibits any civili action being taken against those who discriminate against LGBT people and only authorises some entity called the Human Relations Commission of the Department of Administration (which presumable congregates at the local Southern Baptist Church) to take action in cases of alleged discrimination, which in any case cannot be brought on the grounds of discriminating against LGBT people
When you read S143-422.11, you will notice the absence of sexual identity and the presence of 'biological sex'. This is what authorises discrimination against LGBT people. Although the good people of North Carolina will no doubt be in a pickle when it is confirmed that there is a biological basis to Transgenderism thus criminalising discrimination against Trans people.
I suspect when the US Solicitor General argues in the Supreme Court for the repeal of this law, this may be one of the legal strategies used.
Happy to help you any time Charles, that is if I am not too busy but you should try reading more of your own because practice makes perfect you know.
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You entirely miss the point about the language used by oppressors of minorities.
You also talk about men in women's toilets when that is not the issue. The law prohibits Trans females using female toilets. Your claim to any right not to see a man in a woman's toilet is beating up a complete non issue. Nobody is talking about that except for the bigots pushing for legislation to discriminate against minorities.
Just spoke with my wife. Here in Thailand, in her experience, ladyboys use the men's bathroom. Not the ladies. A trans gender female is still a male. Operation or not.
Transgenders are a minority. But it's a travesty to compare them to my minority Native American Indian tribe. As well as others.
As far as I know, the North Carolina legislation does not apply to Thai ladyboys. I am wondering what they have to do with anything. I am further wondering about your believe that your minority status gives your discrimination against Transgender people any validity. You have want evidence to make the statement that Transgender females are males?
If you want to argue which minority is the most oppressed then you will have to start another thread because it has nothing to do with this one. This thread is about laws that discriminates against LGBT people. The law allows employers to dismiss people who are gay. It denies LGBT people access to public funding. The toilet issue is a complete diversion.
You seem to only convince those established bigots who also reject the rights of other minorities to equality. Your last statement identifies you as part of the whole potty paranoia thing and not worth the time for serious people to make any rational responses.
Great! Please put me on your ignore list. Be nice or don't post.
I do not have anyone on my ignore list. If someone makes an offensive comment then I respond. I was being nice to you but then you decided to support hate speech and discrimination. So I pointed this out. You don't get to tell anyone here what to do.
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I'm 1/64th Comanche (or so my deceased aunt once told me) so that means I can be a racist.
Think I'll attack the victims of choice on this forum...old, white,straight, Christian conservative men.
This could open up new means of expression for me and I can't be blamed for anything.
Go for it chuckd. The first step is to take ownership of the language that your oppressors use. The next step is to read this book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals. You may know the author. Some guy called Saul Alinsky. After that you will be given the secret password to access the secret weapon.
You make it sound like this is all new to you? You surely have seen this sort of thing over time. And you are correct, identifying with the boring straight white males is out of fashion now. Has been since the 50's and 60's really. You know, the whole breadwinner, evening martinis, head of the house, Leave it to Beaver kind of thing that the Baby Boomers exploded. What really capped it off was the Marlboro Man turning out to be gay. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_McBride_(actor)
So go for the whole minority thing. But you can only use racial slurs against your own minority, not other minorities, so it might be better to claim to be African American.
Gun that killed Trayvon Martin 'sold' in private auction
in World News
Posted
Since you ask so nicely. I guess I would have gone up to that slim, teenaged boy and ask him for one of his skittles.
I remember as a lad roaming around my neighbourhood, putting through yards, walking along rail lines, messing around in the weirs and streams of the town. But I guess that's only for white folks.