lostboy

Neither comparison is nonsense. Bryan Adams is an obvious hypocrite.

DELETED

You've painted yourself into that corner. You have no choice but to wear the bigot's dunce hat or retract. Your subjective view on what is or is not nonsense has no relevance.

Statement from Target

"we welcome transgender team members and guests to use the restroom or fitting room facility that corresponds with their gender identity." https://corporate.target.com/article/2016/04/target-stands-inclusivity

Is not Target a popular shopping choice for the type of people who push for hate legislation that discriminates against minorities? Well if it is good enough for Target ...

Senator Jeff Jackson of North Carolina, posted this on his Facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Jeff-Jackson-NC-Senate-District-37-245711905631405/?fref=nf

A report of the ACLU findings on the issue of Title IX funding http://www.indyweek.com/news/archives/2016/03/23/aclu-north-carolina-could-lose-45-billion-in-title-ix-funding-over-bathroom-bill-nice-work-general-assembly

The US Government has laws against discrimination. US States cannot morally justify laws that discriminate against minorities.

The backlash continues.

Bryan Adams (who is a Canadian) said that he couldn't in "good conscience" perform where people's rights were being denied due to their sexual orientation.

OK, good for him. That's certainly his right.

However, he performed in Qatar which imprisons those caught engaging in acts of homosexuality.

He also performed in the UAE. Some may not be aware of this, but homosexuality is punishable by the death penality in the UAE. We're no longer discussing which bathroom someone is demanding to enter, but whether or not someone lives or dies. And Bryan Adams performed enthusiastically in front of that crowd.

I think it is safe to assume that he was remunerated more handsomely in Qatar and the UAE than he was going to be in Mississippi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

What has UAE to do with anything? What has Qatar to do with anything?

The have much worse anti-gay laws than Mississippi, but Bryan Adams played there anyway. The point is that the man is a hypocrite.

Bryan Adams has every right to decide for himself what he will agree with and what he will disagree with. Protesting hate laws in Mississippi imposes absolutely no obligation on him to make any comment on any other location. DELETED

Your psycho-sexual malformity that makes transgender people frighten you is entirely your business and nothing to do with the topic.

Actually, the transgender people are the ones with the psycho-sexual malformity. F430murci is just a normal hetero-sexual guy and he seems disgusted, rather than "afraid".

So your position is that LGBT people are not normal? Only heterosexual males are normal? DELETED

Despite all of the hysterical denouncements of this common sense legislation in North Carolina, these facts still remain:

1. The law provides for single occupancy facilities. Identifying as transgener today? These single occupancy bathrooms are open to you in North Carolina. Enjoy!

2. Those who have had their genitals altered via surgery and then changed their birth certificates, are free to use the opposite gender's bathroom.

It's worth noting that these people make up less than 1% of the adult population in the US. This tiny (yet vocal) minority can use single occupancy bathrooms until they "complete their journey". After that, the bathroom doors will swing wide open.

The good people of North Carolina are standing up to the agenda driven, political extortionists, and I hope they continue to do so.

Again with the toilets. Always with the toilets. You make it sound like this whole thing is about toilets and when it is not about toilets it is about people's genitals being present or absent. Toilet birthers with their minds in the toilet.

It is worth noting that the good people of Charlotte, North Carolina had passed an anti discrimination ordinance to protect LGBT people. This ordinance was overturned by State legislation promoted by anti Gay religious hate groups including advisors to Ted Cruz. It is also wroth noting that the ordinance passed by the good people of Charlotte protected LGBT residents from discrimination in public accommodations including restaurants, hotels, taxis (and bathrooms) http://www.towleroad.com/2016/03/nc-governor-pat-mccrory-signs-bill-banning-lgbt-rights-ordinances-statewide/

So perhaps those who are beating up the toilet issue, those who are persistently using claims of non existent dangers to women from trans people being allowed to pee, those people who demonstrate not one jot of understanding of any LGBT issue, perhaps those people can tell us about the relationship between genitalia and ordering a BLT without getting references to Leviticus on their receipts http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/04/waitress_from_alabama_gets_ant.html

Perhaps those people can tells about what sexual orientation and gender identity has to do with a person whose job it is to drive a damn taxi to where the customer wants to go http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/15/gay-couple-kissing-taxi_n_5983188.html

Not a word about these clearly extreme social experiments from the good people of Alabama, Houston and other parts of the US. No cries of who America will disintegrate if gays eat processed luncheon meat in main street diners. No, it is the toilets. Always the toilets.

LGBT people demanding to be treated with dignity and have the same rights as all other citizens. These people are described as agenda driven political extortionists who actually are accepted by the good people of North Carolina. The good people of North Carolina passed ordinances to protect LGBT rights. It was the Right Wing ideological crazies pushed by religious zealots and their hatred of LGBT people who clearly are not representing the good people of North Carolina who pushed this hate legislation. How do I know it is not the good people of North Carolina? Because the majority of American's overwhelmingly support LGBT equality. This has been demonstrated consistently in polls. The numbers continue to increase and they are extremely high among young people. VDO's of University of Washington students posted on this thread back up this statement. So no. It is not the good people of North Carolina. It is the bigotry and hatred of a putrid group of ignorant right wing wannabe power brokers. Supported internationally it seems by trolls on social media.

If people are going to present the contents of these laws to try and demonstrated their perceived 'reasonableness' then just focussing on details that are lurid, inflammatory or prurient is more than intellectual dishonesty, it is moral bankruptcy.

Bryan Adams (who is a Canadian) said that he couldn't in "good conscience" perform where people's rights were being denied due to their sexual orientation.

OK, good for him. That's certainly his right.

However, he performed in Qatar which imprisons those caught engaging in acts of homosexuality.

He also performed in the UAE. Some may not be aware of this, but homosexuality is punishable by the death penality in the UAE. We're no longer discussing which bathroom someone is demanding to enter, but whether or not someone lives or dies. And Bryan Adams performed enthusiastically in front of that crowd.

I think it is safe to assume that he was remunerated more handsomely in Qatar and the UAE than he was going to be in Mississippi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

What has UAE to do with anything? What has Qatar to do with anything?

Is not this topic bout Mississippi passing legislation that promotes discrimination against LGBT people. You cannot demonstrate any relevant equivalence between Mississippi and any Gulf State, so what is your purpose in beating up this off topic issue?

Homosexual acts are illegal in the State of Qatar. Those caught taking part in this sort of thing will (at the very least) be put in prison.

Guess who performed in Qatar a few years back?

That's right. Bryan Adams.

But this is statement Adams released:

"I cannot in good conscience perform in a state where certain people are being denied their civil rights due to their sexual orientation".

Such hypocrisy. Or is it a deeply cynical opportunism?

Either way,

http://www.iloveqatar.net/event/content/bryan-adams-live-doha-intercontinental-beach

What has Qatar got to do with US laws that discriminate against LGBT people? What requires Bryan Adams to take any position on Qatar? What is the equivalence of Qatar to the United States and specifically to Mississippi? Are we now required to conform to the socio-cultural values of Qatar when posting opinions on the subject of HB1523?

With the world going to hell in a hand basket...nuclear crazies threatening to unleash nuclear power...

We have to spend time describing in great detail who can go to which toilet...how did we come to this?

There was a time when men were men...women were women...and those that did not know what they were...kept it to themselves...

Some would say the world has progressed to this point...some would say it has digressed to its lowest point ever...

Bunch of sick puppies causing drama...

ISIS will change all this if they get the chance...

I see such issues as NC Law as one of the straws that break the "hell in a hand basket" back (serve to destroy national comity). The previous poster notes the stunning value of such legal conflicts compared to the pressing threats in the world.

Each incremental, affirmative, progressive step toward equality and access for all has a (face value) valid premise, and an emotive appeal- it just seems fair and right, its argued. Some of these issues clearly are right, or long over due (or both). However, all combined, they conspire to create fractured constituencies of protected peoples, victims, each screaming for their protections from their Balkanized-islands- lesbians, gays, transgenders, plural marriage, gay marriage, muslim, jew, women, latinos, immigrants, etc, etc, ad naseum (always all except whites). Many have absolutely nothing in common with the other besides leveraging their cries to impose their will upon the many. Always... always, the majority is forced to accommodate the victims not on merit rather on the vociferousness of their cries.

Now the US is a fractured mess of victim, militants, the injured, the oppressed, the repressed, the downtrodden, and the increasingly abused religious corpus... and when we juxtapose these voices and their demands beside the terrorist and nuclear and state threats that now plague the world, they seem.. selfish, destructive, sometimes asinine. They really do seem like all the handiwork of the religious narrative that describes the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the reasons. Bork was right, America is Slouching toward Gomorrah. Remove the religious connotations and the facts remain true still- America is becoming an amoral cesspool. Its the relativity of all things that is the bread and butter of the progressive/leftist playbook.

Each issue variously has merit at some level, as a basic right, as an underdog appeal. But all together, they create the very stew that destroys our culture, every landmark, and is basically nihilist in the end! The final product of the stew of balkanized politics is a fracturing of the nation. Its not conjecture, its self-evident. In this context one begins to wonder whether the increasing threats facing the world are simply the result of forces beyond control are secondary to a nation self absorbed, fractured, ineffective, and dying.

"A nationally representative study of adolescents in grades 7–12 found that lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth were more than twice as likely to have attempted suicide as their heterosexual peers." http://www.cdc.gov/lgbthealth/youth.htm

And you make the pompous statement that America is becoming amoral. American amorality is engendered by religiosity. It is those with religion who create the environment for the bullying and discrimination that leads to LGBT people being at risk and LGBT teens being twice as likely to kill themselves than straight teens.

Straight white men have controlled the channels of power in western societies, including America. Straight white men used to define the melting pot. The melting pot did not apply to the slaves because they were legally un-human. They were property. But the straight white male melting pot started to crack as soon as the non white Europeans began emigrating in the late 19th Century in response to potlicial and nationalistic upheaval in Europe. The cracks widened with suffrage was extended to women and by the Civil Rights Act of the 1960's until it is essentially non existent in the 21st Century. But the memo never got to the old, straight white men who continue their patriotic duty to destroy non conformists, you know, the Commies and that lot.

Democracies are designed to cope with diversity. Your, quite frankly silly and alarmist references to Balkanisation is the cry of the loss of power and influence. It is the backward looking, reactionary howl of anguish that other people are demanding an equal slice of the pie of respect and that their voices be heard.

Bork and Sodom. Two words that wrap up your prophetic dystopia. Sorry to tell you that the reformation happened pretty much when America was only the 13 colonies. You may not realise that about 23% of all Americans affiliate with no religion http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/05/7-facts-about-atheists/ This includes self identified atheists and agnostics. Nearly a quarter of all Americans reject the whole Sodom opus unequivocally. It has no meaning in their lives.

The US barely survived with Scalia on the SCOTUS. God help them if Bork had received assent for his nomination.

What a gigantic leap. From transgenders using toilets to the destruction of America. Well, I guess it is true. It is the destruction of your America. Your lot really haven't done a very good job. Time to let the non whites, non males, non straights, anti religious and other non conformists into the room and start listening to them/us for a change. Or not. You can choose gracious defeat and stay out of everyone's way. The coming generations will trample all over your reactionary BS.

When you think about LGBT people screaming for protection, just cast your mind to those LGBT teens who are enduring bullying so horrific that it drives many of them to suicide. And then make some statements about morality because what you have said above is surely some of the most offensive reactionary amoral discrimination against LGBT people that I have heard for a while. America used to demonstrate that there was strength in diversity, equality of opportunity and participatory governance. Why did the Republic Party screw all that up?

That's an amazing video that more people need to see. And think honestly about.

It presents a common sense point of view that certain political activists want to censor from the public square because it exposes the absurdity of their agenda.

The Family Policy Institute of Washington http://www.fpiw.org is a religious hate group whose public agenda is to oppose LGBT equality. They are particularly aligned with the Family Research Council's agenda on the eradication of all Transgender rights to equality and dignity.

Is it any wonder that they try to play the diversion game about toilets? Their stupid questioning of young University students exposes their complete and utter ignorance about LGBT people and the concepts of sexual orientation and gender identity.

It is not surprising to see their hate propaganda spread on these toilet threats precisely reflecting the bigotry and need to promote hatred of LGBT people by bigots trolling social media.

Watch the VDO. Notice how generous and accepting America's youth are in response to rational questions. Notice how confused they get when the questions turn into bigoted nonsense. Compare these young Americans to the old homophobes trolling this and other related threads. The difference is as plain as night and day.

The public square is for the public to access and that includes LGBT people, it includes Black people, it includes physically and intellectually handicapped people. You know. The Public. Bigots not welcome.

Mississippi's HB 1523 is set to take effect in 70 days.

Mississippi Tourism Industry Faces Criticism, Braces for Backlash http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/07/us/mississippi-tourism-religious-freedom-bill-backlash/

Business Backlash Descends on Mississippi http://www.advocate.com/business/2016/4/06/business-backlash-descends-mississippi

Big Mississippi Employers Oppose Anti-Gay Law http://www.cbsnews.com/news/some-big-mississippi-employers-oppose-anti-gay-law/

Who supports this anti LGBT legislation? Religious zealots who hate LGBT people and their fellow travellers. How do they oppose it? By trolling social media stirring up the non existent issue of women's safety in toilets being used by Trans people, by sending like-minded men into women's bathrooms to create fear and unrest, by going around asking stupid questions like "can I call myself a 7 foot chines women just because I feel like it?"

Well the majority of people who support LGBT equality are voting with their feet and their dollars.

People like you are now the fringe. you are now on the margins. You will be shunned and shamed for your bigotry.

man·splain

manˈsplān/

verb

informal

gerund or present participle: mansplaining

1. (of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing.

   "I'm listening to a guy mansplain economics to his wife"

Finally you acknowledge what you have been doing all along. Your patently false and condescending beat up of the toilet safety issue is entirely bogus.

There are no non religious zealot women expressing fears about toilet safety. These women who are not expressing such fears are overwhelmingly supportive of LGBT issues. You have not found any references to anything that you have claimed. Your only tool is discrimination.

And now Pearl Jam are joining in.

it seems all they'll have left soon are the Jonas brothers.

Bryan Adams, Bruce Springsteen, and Pearl Jam.

Not an actual woman among them.

After reviewing post #134, what is your point

The point is that it is men who are zealously forcing this ill-conceived experiment on American society (and women in particular).

I look forward to reading credible polling data on how actual women and girls feel about all this. Because, after all, they're the ones who are most impacted by this folly.

Women are not opposing toilet access for Trans people. In all this time and all these posts, not one credible reference has been made to any female citing fears of male sexual predators for supporting anti-LGBT hate legislation.

There are no surveys, figures, polls or studies that support any claim that the opposition to Trans toilet use is gender based. It is entirely based on religion irrespective of gender. And who are the people pushing this LGBT hate legislation? It is men. At least in North Carolina. And what sort of men? Religious bigots who are advisors to Ted Cruz and have an aggressive, public and known anti-gay agenda.

For years, Harris and the Benhams have been at the forefront of every battle to oppose gay rights in North Carolina. This past February, they were at it again, this time against a nondiscrimination ordinance proposed in Charlotte that, among other things, allowed transgender people to use public restrooms based on their gender identity and protected LGBT people from discrimination by public institutions. The advocacy of these top Cruz supporters against the Charlotte ordinance eventually led the North Carolina legislature to push through one of the most sweeping anti-LGBT measures in the country

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/04/ted-cruz-advisers-north-carolina-anti-lgbt-bill

These anti-gay MEN and the stupid trolls who support their diversionary beat up tactics of Toilet Safety are pursuing an ideological agenda. Nothing to do about Women's safety at all.

There are no figures for female perception of risk to personal safety from Trans people using toilets because it is a NON ISSUE. The risk DOES NOT EXIST except as a way to inflame hatred against LGBT people.

Bigots do not like to be exposed. Mature people, corporations, normal people who are not driven by religious zealotry, performing artists - male female and trans all understand this. This is why there is such a massive backlash against North Carolina, Mississippi and the other places promoting this vile, disgusting discrimination.

Here is the agenda of the Family Research Council to eliminate Trans people

1. States and the federal government should not allow legal gender marker changes.

2. Transgender people should not have any legal protections against discrimination, nor should anyone be forced to respect their identity.

3. Transgender people should not be legally allowed to use facilities in accordance with their gender identity.

4. Medical coverage related to transition should not be provided by the government, or any other entity.

5. Transgender people should not be allowed to serve in the military.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/and-then-they-came-for-tr_b_9258678.html

How is this different from ethnic cleansing?

The article is written by a Trans female. Here is part of her biography

Brynn Tannehill ... graduated from the Naval Academy with a B.S. in computer science in 1997. She earned her Naval Aviator wings in 1999 and flew SH-60B helicopters and P-3C maritime patrol aircraft during three deployments between 2000 and 2004. She served as a campaign analyst while deployed overseas to 5th Fleet Headquarters in Bahrain from 2005 to 2006

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/

I imagine she would wipe the floor with some of the more obnoxious bigots who continue to troll this thread.

Seems like the most significant danger to women is posed by conservative male bigots.

"Conservative Trolls Have Been Suggesting Men Go into Women's Restrooms to Help Legislators Discriminate Against Trans People"

http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2016/02/17/23584290/conservative-trolls-have-been-suggesting-men-go-into-womens-restrooms-to-help-legislators-discriminate-against-trans-people

And now Pearl Jam are joining in.

it seems all they'll have left soon are the Jonas brothers.

Bryan Adams, Bruce Springsteen, and Pearl Jam.

Not an actual woman among them.

Gretchen Peters, the country music songwriter who wrote ‘Independence Day', stated, "The people who are at risk are people like my son who would really be called out publicly, and anyone who is a trans person knows that can escalate into a really dangerous situation. I live in fear of that as a mother." http://video.journalnow.com/Country-Singers-And-Songwriters-Protest-AntiLBGT-Laws-Of-MS-And-NC-30618083

Your persistent anti-LGBT agenda is so easily debunked with the minimum of effort. You have what credibility to harangue us on women's rights?

Just another example for the hypocrisy of these so-called entertainment "stars" and SJWs: What Beverly Hills Hotel Boycott? A-List Stars Set for Weekend Fundraiser at Venue

"No major Hollywood red carpet event has unspooled inside the Beverly Hills Hotel since 2014 when the owner, the Sultan of Brunei, passed Sharia law in his country, calling for the stoning of gays and adulterers."

...

"Another source quipped, "I think people have turned their attention toward anti-LGBT legislation being passed everywhere from North Carolina to Tennessee to care any more about a boycott of the Beverly Hills Hotel.""

Ain't it great to have the right to selectively boycott (or not anymore) for whatever reason you please? To have the freedom to select your flavour of the month?

What a bunch of hypocrites! Or does anybody understand, that after two years it is okay again to support people or business owners who advocate the stoning of gays? What could be the reason for this switch of principle? If there was ever one.

The ownership over the Beverly Hills Hotel has exactly what to do with toilets in North Carolina and Mississippi?

One singer canceling a tour won’t stop a hate bill, but these actions add up. Make no mistake, these are hate bills.

These bills are written to give carte blanche to a wide variety of professionals to discriminate against LGBT people in the course of their jobs.

Why would these crackers do something like this? Hate, ignorance and fear. These are your local Republican governments in action.

Pathetic.

This is much needed push back...brought on by LGBT people purposely targeting business of people of Christian faith...demanding service...such a being forced to make a penis cake for a gay wedding...crying foul when they are politely asked to take their business down the street...where they will be accommodated...

What is hateful...is the lack of respect for all people...not just gay people...

Your people just do not know when to give it a rest...bringing lawsuits against people of faith causes the LGBT more harm than good...

Hate...is in the eye of the beholder...if you could be honest...you would acknowledge that the hate and unreasonable witch-hunt comes from the LGBT community...IMHO

Do I really need to ask what's up with old men and their penis cake fetish? I have been to many weddings for straight couples. Not one of them had a wedding cake in the shape of any genitalia. Not one. Where do you old men get this idea that same sex couples are fixated on genitalia shaped baked goods? Can gay people not eat hot dogs now without looking like Rick Perry 'going down to downtown'? Are gay people not allowed to eat donuts because they are not anatomically appropriate to gay men. So they can only be eaten by straight men and lesbians?

Your push back is as limp as Little GGT appears to be. It is a last gasp of the religious bigots. There are not enough of them to sustain this advance. The numbers of old white reactionaries are diminishing daily. The religious bigots, if not inventing hate, certainly employ it for the benefit of the propagation of their lunacy.

Many countries now have anti hate legislation. Even in America. Kathryn Knott, the daughter of a local police chief jailed fro 5 - 10 months for gay bashing http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Kathryn-Knott-Convicted-in-Center-City-Gay-Bash-Attack-to-Learn-Fate-368025551.html

This is your push back? We LGBT people should give it a rest? And let ourselves be victimised by gangs of people on the street? Just allow any bigot to come up and bash us if they please? If you think hate is in the eye of the beholder, then you have zero moral compass. Don't bother looking to religion to provide one since that is the font and well spring of LGBT hatred. May you continue to enjoy your fantasies about genitalia shaped baked goods.

I agree with the general direction of what ggt is saying but not the example. Likewise your use of the Knott example is not valid as Knott should have been rightfully imprisoned for assault which is not what is being discussed which is the right to refuse service. You are somewhat astray with the hate legislation as well as again that is not what ggt was inferring and there are other levels of legislation that also intertwine.

My home country of New Zealand has it about right with full legal rights for all. However we still allow personnel rights of all to be recognised and that is what in my opinion ggt was inferring. Case in point here in NZ was a hetro couple who ran a bed and breakfast (B&B that a gay couple wished to stay at. The gay couple were refused accommodation to which they took offence and made a big issue out of it. Outcome was the B&B couple were judged to be within their rights on the basis that while their B&B was a business, it was very much more a personnel in your face business relationship with their customer than for example a large hotel where the right to refuse is deemed as unlawful in that there is no real personnel relationship between hotel staff and the customer.

There is a fine point where society's rights and individuals rights meet. Fair enough in that is how we get to rightfully discuss and set society standards and laws. But it gets a bit tedious with the constant outcry that seems to be constantly coming from the one side, and for that matter when that one group is hell bent on trampling over private personel rights.

Simple test. Substitute Black for Gay. Would you be presenting the same argument then? The NZ decision was wrong. The UK and Europe have it correct on this.

Don't forget the flowers Charles. What's a good gay wedding without flowers.

Thanks for finally admitting the truth.

And thank you for further confirming that conservatives are typically much less capable of perceiving satire: http://hij.sagepub.com/content/14/2/212.abstract

Satire?

We're talking with a Texan here. Everything is bigger in the bighorn state or the lone star state or whatever they call themselves now. They don't do satire. They can't do irony. So we are left with sarcasm and moving practically to the burlesque. Texans are in your face kind of people.

Must feel sorry for the republicans now. They just can't seem to fit into modern society.

The classification of Gender Dysphoria, which is defined as intense persistent gender incongruence in the International Classification of Diseases is under review. It is argued that:

"The diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated" http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

If you are going t try and sound smart, you should really do your homework first. Just throwing out a few bits of jargon does not hide your intent. Only wackos like Donald Trump make fund of mentally challenged for intellectually disabled people any more. And, of course, now you. You wish to perpetuate the stigma of mental health issues to promote discrimination against trans people. If you are not Trans, why not just leave them alone. If their existence threatens your perception of your manhood, or lack of it, then go consult someone in a professional capacity and just leave the minorities alone to deal with their issues.

You have zero business discussing any issue relating to the mental health of Trans people. And using this as an excuse to deny them the ability to take a piss is revolting.

This is a discussion forum, I know you are a regressive liberal - so how about we just take the following as read, so we can actually discuss the issues.

1 - You want to tell people what they can and cannot talk about, although you believe yourself to be a bastion of free speech.

2 - You believe anyone with a different opinion from your own is bigoted

3 - You will liberally use the report button to try to stifle opposing views.

In short - WE ALL GET IT. There is no need to repeat accusations of bigotry or tell people what they can and cannot say in every post. We gotcha there 100%.

So you claim that the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders is wrong and you are right.

As for "anti LGBT" websites - the site I posted "sex change regret" was created by a male to female transgender who went through reassignment. How is he anti LGBT? Contributors to that site are also disappointed gender re-assignees. I think their stories are well worth listening to. Your claim that the site is "anti LGBT" just because it doesn't fit your narrative is quite ludicrous.

The pioneers of gender reassignment surgery Johns Hopkins no longer carry out the procedure because they know it doesn't fix the problem, which is a mental issue.

And this isn't about where .01% of the population, suffering from a mental disorder "take a piss". It is about both the existing users and the aspiring users of those toilets and locker rooms. The safety and well being of both groups is important. Not one over the other.

We get it? Who, precisely is we? Or are you using the Royal Wee? Are you a Movement? You speak on behalf of who? Being a Wee of course is apropos to your mind being persistently in the toilet. So break it down for us and not your whiny little Victim thing of not being able to express your views - break down for the rest of us, just how is any of what you have said in your multiple posts linked to HB1523 in the Mississippi Legislature 2016.

How is an internal debate among the psychiatric community about the classification of gender dysphoria as a 'disorder' or not in any way related to HB1523 that allows the dismissal of LGBT people because of their biology? How is the attempted suicide rate of post operative Trans people connected to HB1523 that allows government employees and recipients of government funding and contracts to discriminate against LGBT people? How is the dissatisfaction of ONE post operative Trans person in any way connected to HB1523?

The plain and simple fact is that none of your facts mean anything. They are completely and entirely out of context and not related to this topic which is about religious hate legislation, specifically HB1523 in Mississippi. So again, why are you pursuing this line? It can only be to tarnish and demonise LGBT people, specifically in your recent posts Transgender people. And when there are legitimate voices raised in protest at your bigotry, you play the victim. You start making lists of your biased perceptions of other people's characters and motivations. You retreat into the simple minded polemic of the ideological sand pit - and you even plagiarise your insults. I think another poster should be claiming the 'regressive' thing because clearly he would have stolen it from his favourite website gatesofvienna.

What is it about your need to prevent minorities from relieving themselves? It is completely and utterly insane, this entire line of argument perpetuated by people who cannot get their minds out of the toilet. I really believe that there are some significant psycho-sexual malformations playing on certain people's obsession with genitalia, cakes and toilets. Irrespective of all that, just provide one link, one connection, one rational argument that links any of this, including your Johns Hopkins Professor (retired) and his views on gender reassignment to HR 1523. Just one will do. And when you can't, just admit your agenda is to use language and terminology that is out of context in a deliberate attempt to promote discrimination against LGBT people. Many people suffer from mental health issues. Knowing that there are people like you around who will harass and harangue them over this must be so comforting for them.

In the case of men in womens bathrooms, we are talking about the trans men that would want access to womens bathrooms.

Now - this is not a question of equality. This is a question of letting people with a mental illness into bathrooms of the opposite sex.

And make no mistake, transgenders are suffering from a mental condition.

If you don't believe me - go look in Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders or even better, watch this video from 3:20 onwards were an M2F Transgender that is quite open about the fact that it IS a mental disorder.

40% of Transgenders that go through gender re-assignment go on to attempt suicide. The re-assignment is not the cure - because they still have an underlying mental disorder.

This isn't skin color, this isn't sexual preference. This is changing bathroom access to accommodate mental illness.

And then there's the pervs. People that want to give males access to female bathrooms because it will facilitate their activities.

In face, in North Carolina, the proposed "nondiscrimination ordinance" was being championed by a convicted child molester. You can read about this unsavory character here: http://www.dailywire.com/news/3995/convicted-sexual-predator-and-lgbt-activist-behind-robert-kraychik

According to your unreferenced and unsourced figure, 40% of Trans people having done re-assignment commit suicide. And so because of that we can't let them use the toilet. I think that the last person I would want to consult on Trans issues is you. Did you go away and get some post grad award in genetics since your last post on this thread? More likely you spent a few days playing google bingo and desperately trying to find data that fits your twisted agenda. How you must have delighted on discovering the mental health issues related to Trans people. And of course being the oh so sensitive soul that you are, you couldn't wait to pass around your latest piece of bigotry. That Trans people are 'nuts' so they shouldn't be allowed to use the toilets. Who knows what they will do in the depths of the depression and anguish in the toilet cubicle.

You have no business lecturing anyone on Trans issues. Your need to discriminate against them and comment on their behaviour is perverse. As is your retreat into the already established off topic issue of male sex offenders.

Keep up the feverish google bingo. Who knows, you might actually find a clue.

Actually 40% ATTEMPT suicide. I did not say they were successful.

Here is a report from UCLA - http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

You are being silly to say that this is the REASON they should not be allowed to use the toilet. Nobody said that.

Ultimately - this is an issue that will impact grown, teen and adolescent females as well as transgenders.

One side of the coin is transgender rights and the other is womens' rights/safety.

There is no discrimination, here, that is merely a strawman that you use in every post.

I see now you not only accuse me of bigotry but also of perversion. A real charmer aren't you?

Make up your mind whether you want to have a discussion or a slagging match. You are not really effective at either.

Provide evidence that Trans people pose a risk to the safety of women and children in toilets. You claim to be the Defender of Woment's Toilets, then prove it. You will not be able to because there is no evidence that Trans people pose any risk of sexual assault. You will find that Trans people are more likely to be victims of assault than perpetrators.

So we are left again with asking why you are perpetuating untrue and inflammatory claims. It can only be to promote discrimination against a minority. Like I consistently say, if you don't want to be called a bigot then don't say bigoted things. Quite simple really. Even you should be able to grasp the concept.

40% of Transgenders that go through gender re-assignment go on to attempt suicide. The re-assignment is not the cure - because they still have an underlying mental disorder.

Probably from being persecuted and abused by narrow minded bigots their whole lives I would imagine.

Well - that just shows what you will come up with when you make things up in your head.

On the contrary, the re-assignment doesn't really solve the underlying condition. So you are left with mutilated genitals and the same problem you had in the first place.

Imagine having a huge problem and seeing something very drastic as the cure only to be left in the same state of mind and a bucket full of regret.

More here: http://www.sexchangeregret.com/

The classification of Gender Dysphoria, which is defined as intense persistent gender incongruence in the International Classification of Diseases is under review. It is argued that:

"The diagnosis inappropriately pathologizes gender noncongruence and should be eliminated" http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

If you are going t try and sound smart, you should really do your homework first. Just throwing out a few bits of jargon does not hide your intent. Only wackos like Donald Trump make fund of mentally challenged for intellectually disabled people any more. And, of course, now you. You wish to perpetuate the stigma of mental health issues to promote discrimination against trans people. If you are not Trans, why not just leave them alone. If their existence threatens your perception of your manhood, or lack of it, then go consult someone in a professional capacity and just leave the minorities alone to deal with their issues.

You have zero business discussing any issue relating to the mental health of Trans people. And using this as an excuse to deny them the ability to take a piss is revolting.

False equivalency that promotes discrimination against actual people, not beliefs. Clearly Jon Sweetens has the same superficial understanding of people's right to dignity that many on TVF do.

There is nothing dignified about this whole stupid toilet/locker room issue.

Forcing women to accept men in the toilet if the man pretends to be trans or pretends to "identify as female" is asinine.

Everyone knows women go there together for their secret women pow-wows or whatever. The Ladies Room is their safe space. I thought the Left was in full support of safe spaces?

People can pretend that it is some kind of civil right, human right, and anyone who opposes is a bigot, but that is all BS. There was a lesbian on the BBC speaking out against this so don't pretend that the LGBT community is united on the issue. The vast majority of women still don't want men in their toilets.

They can solve this issue by changing the signs on the doors. Instead of the image of a man or woman, just have a penis or vagina.

You and others continue with your minds in the toilet. By doing so, you purposefully trivialise the issue and contribute to the demonisation of LGBT people. The religious hate laws deny LGBT people access to public services, jeopardises their employment prospects and in some case their actual employment as they can be dismissed for their biological make up. Beating up the toilet diversion plays into the agenda of hate and discrimination that is expressed by the laws and the people behind the laws. Why bring in left and right into this issue? What do I now about lesbians on the BBC. All these distractions and diversions. Plays right into the hands of the bigots.

I will say one thing on the toilet issue Continued reference to men in women's toilets is either a sign of ignorance or a deliberate inflammation of the issue. Who is talking about men in women's bathrooms? We are discussing Trans people who identify as women using women's bathrooms. To suggest otherwise is just a blatant sop to promoting discrimination. You don't like LGBT people, fine but don't perpetuate discrimination that denies them equality under the law.

In the case of men in womens bathrooms, we are talking about the trans men that would want access to womens bathrooms.

Now - this is not a question of equality. This is a question of letting people with a mental illness into bathrooms of the opposite sex.

And make no mistake, transgenders are suffering from a mental condition.

If you don't believe me - go look in Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders or even better, watch this video from 3:20 onwards were an M2F Transgender that is quite open about the fact that it IS a mental disorder.

40% of Transgenders that go through gender re-assignment go on to attempt suicide. The re-assignment is not the cure - because they still have an underlying mental disorder.

This isn't skin color, this isn't sexual preference. This is changing bathroom access to accommodate mental illness.

And then there's the pervs. People that want to give males access to female bathrooms because it will facilitate their activities.

In face, in North Carolina, the proposed "nondiscrimination ordinance" was being championed by a convicted child molester. You can read about this unsavory character here: http://www.dailywire.com/news/3995/convicted-sexual-predator-and-lgbt-activist-behind-robert-kraychik

According to your unreferenced and unsourced figure, 40% of Trans people having done re-assignment commit suicide. And so because of that we can't let them use the toilet. I think that the last person I would want to consult on Trans issues is you. Did you go away and get some post grad award in genetics since your last post on this thread? More likely you spent a few days playing google bingo and desperately trying to find data that fits your twisted agenda. How you must have delighted on discovering the mental health issues related to Trans people. And of course being the oh so sensitive soul that you are, you couldn't wait to pass around your latest piece of bigotry. That Trans people are 'nuts' so they shouldn't be allowed to use the toilets. Who knows what they will do in the depths of the depression and anguish in the toilet cubicle.

You have no business lecturing anyone on Trans issues. Your need to discriminate against them and comment on their behaviour is perverse. As is your retreat into the already established off topic issue of male sex offenders.

Keep up the feverish google bingo. Who knows, you might actually find a clue.

So it's all about the wedding cakes after all.

Don't forget the flowers Charles. What's a good gay wedding without flowers.

I am beginning to think that you are not arguing in good faith since you do not actually address the issues at hand. The issue is legislation that authorises the discrimination of minorities and the back lash. First you argue a moral equivalency of 'sincerely held' religious beliefs and the right to dignity of a minority that is defined by their biology. You now move to argue that protest against such anti LGBT legislation requires all protesters to protest all issues related to LGBT equality otherwise their protest can be dismissed and trivialised on the basis of hypocrisy.

Is Brian Adams protesting the Beverly Hills Hotel? I have no idea. Perhaps you can tell us. You might also find out about The Boss even though he is not part of this thread. Perhaps you might ask them if they knew about the issue with the Sultan of Brunei. Perhaps you might ask if they believe that putting energy into protesting religious bigotry in the US may have more impact than protesting the Ruler of a Sovereign State. You might also explain to them your expectation that they protest all issues with equal energy and vigour and demand an accounting of every issues that they have protested and at what level of intensity.

This circular argument that freedom of speech allows speech and actions that discriminate against a minority is easily countered by those who are subject to such discrimination also have the right to protest such discrimination can go on forever. It is clear to me that the rights of people to discriminate on the basis of their learned behaviours and received perceptions are less than the rights of those who are being discriminated against due to their biology.

People expressing support for LGBT equality need not be subject to ridiculous and insolent expectations that they fight all issues related to LGBT equality equally. This is just plainly irrational.

I enjoy and support a lot of what Bill Maher talks about. I particularly support what he says about Reagan and Religion (separately). His latest monologue on Real Time last Friday evening addressed the issue of religious discrimination. I think he has the correct solution.

I think that continued use of false equivalency would demonstrate bad faith in this discussion. Some have already judged it to be so. If any replies continue this line, then I guess we will know for sure.

My initial post was about the hypocrisy of Brian Adams to use his freedom to boycott (a group of) people to show and underscore his support to... Deny them the very same freedom he is using.

In a later post I explained why I support his freedom unconditionally by referring to the Non-Aggression-Principle (NAP) which is the foundation of my social behaviour. The NAP in a nutshell:

The NAP holds that “aggression against the person or property of others is always wrong, where aggression is defined narrowly in terms of the use or threat of initial physical violence.”

Btw: The freedom to boycott has absolutely nothing to do with the freedom of speech but with the freedom of association, to which I also refer in a later post.

Now, to make a long story short: To request the state to coerce people / companies to do business they would otherwise voluntarily decline (they forego an opportunity to earn money), is an aggressive, very dangerous path you choose.

It could go the same way as "feminism" is going right now in our Western culture:

If you bothered to watch the video, I hope you understand if I say: Be careful in your unconditional, aggressive request for "diversity" in our Western culture. At least don't blame the NAP for any unintended blowback! Which would me off very much, too.

I watched that moron when the VDO was posted last year on one of the anti-muslim, anti-immigration threads. I thought then about the idea that somehow people think that listening to people utter bigotry is different from reading the same bigotry in written form.

Whinging old Pom. Why would you think that the litany of hate that comes out of that old fool's mouth would have any bearing on anything?

Posting that VDO is a very lear sign that you are not a series interlocutor. If you are a Brit, then you will know what a 'wind up' is. I believe you are winding up those who protest religious hate legislation and I do not believe your NAP crap for a second.