lostboy

What does this story mean for the legal principle "Ignorant juris non excusal" or "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" when a UK citizen is expected to know 44,000 pieces of primary legislation? It makes Dickens' character Mr. Bumble in Oliver Twist correct when he says "The law is an ass".

Political polls conducted by Liberal News Media saying a Democrat would beat a Republican are as predictable as saying the Sun will rise in the morning.. The people who structure polls at Liberal news outfits are often leftists and socialist who see it is their duty to engineer what the populace gets to see. When they want a Democrat to be shown as a winner ... the poll sample is skewed to over sample likely Democrat voters by polling in voting precincts that have shown in the past to have heavy Democrat voting ... hardly guess work ... not even remotely random or balanced... They might as well say they did a poll and just post the numbers they want ... What is actually occurring in America is the largest conservative - real moderate populist uprisings in memory even including the involvement of blacks, hispanics and Democrats ... far eclipsing the pro Republican Congressional voting turnout of 2010 and 2014 - but the American political left just wants to pretend it does not exist..

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" (attributed. George Santayana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santayana_).

Here is what the New York Daily News wrote about Hannity after Romney did not win the 2012 Presidential election http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/sean-hannity-big-loser-2012-election-article-1.1228269

The article contains an interesting phrase - Intellectually Closed.

The idea of a "large conservative - real moderate populist uprising ... including ... blacks, hispanics and Democrats" is not actually a thing. It is generational and a new generation is here. They are not interested in the old culture wars. Most issues have been resolved to their satisfaction. Their issues are about income inequality, social justice, diversity, environment and communication. Nobody but a shrinking demographic is interested in the product of mid-20th C white cultural hegemony any more. No amount of wishful thinking, warped representation of data or other intellectually closed rationalisations can make it otherwise.

Romney was a choice forced on the base of the Republican core supporters ... Your remark shows that you understand nothing about the current Populist Uprising that is supporting Trump and Cruz -- TWO of the most popular ANTI-Establishment candidates. In the past candidates Dole, McCain and Romney were hand picked winners of the Republican Elitist Establishment and predictably they were all losers.... They didn't really even have the support of the core of the Republican voters... This time around - this years Romney -- Jeb Bush has been shunted to the side by the vast majority of Republican supporters. This is the populist aspect you do not seen to know anything about... Americans are going to have a real choice this time around ... not Liberal / Leftist and Liberal Lite....

Trumps appearances are being sold out ... his popularity - (that word related to Populist) is overwhelming ... a Trump / Cruz ticket will overwhelm the sad sac Hillary or the lost Sanders...

Well pardon my woeful ignorance. It has been illustrative watching the Republicans eat their own young. The recent history of the Republican party seems to be its inability to deal with the disrupters. Cost GW's Daddy his job. Has smeared the Republican brand as the Party of No. Has generated a succession of clowns pushing their drivel from an alternative universe and re-fighting the 20th C Culture Wars. You deliberately avoid my point on this issue.

I guess your interpretation that my remarks are an indication of ignorance can be independently assessed by readers. Pity that those insults are so predictably banal. Going to tell me how sub-standard my educational system is next?

Political polls conducted by Liberal News Media saying a Democrat would beat a Republican are as predictable as saying the Sun will rise in the morning.. The people who structure polls at Liberal news outfits are often leftists and socialist who see it is their duty to engineer what the populace gets to see. When they want a Democrat to be shown as a winner ... the poll sample is skewed to over sample likely Democrat voters by polling in voting precincts that have shown in the past to have heavy Democrat voting ... hardly guess work ... not even remotely random or balanced... They might as well say they did a poll and just post the numbers they want ... What is actually occurring in America is the largest conservative - real moderate populist uprisings in memory even including the involvement of blacks, hispanics and Democrats ... far eclipsing the pro Republican Congressional voting turnout of 2010 and 2014 - but the American political left just wants to pretend it does not exist..

By the way JD, you just became the "Ellipsis Man of the Day" with that post...

HATE when you quote legitimate journalistic sources at them. They only recognize right wing news sources for facts and opinions, like Fox News, that bastion of credibility.

Okay, I'll bite. Your statement: "What is actually occurring in America is the largest conservative - real moderate populist uprisings in memory even including the involvement of blacks, hispanics and Democrats ... far eclipsing the pro Republican Congressional voting turnout of 2010 and 2014 - but the American political left just wants to pretend it does not exist.."

Where did you get this gem out of curiosity? Wait, don't tell me, Fox News! Right?

Best election ever. When do the clowns start the debate? I don't actually watch it because I have a life but I love the lowlights. Trump scowling, Cruz pontificating, Rubio drooling, Carly lying (they're all lying) and Bush trying to be relevent. LET THE SHOW BEGIN!

The use of Ellipsis in modern online forum posting emulates conversational style ... too bad you live in an outdated world along with your outdated politics...

It is grammatically acceptable to use ellipses in written speech to indicate a pause, although the primary use of this punctuation is to substitute for words edited from text to reduce length of quotations. Use or more importantly over use in discourse detracts from the effectiveness of prose. Discourse is, of course, primarily composed of words, not the lack of them. Think of it like self-abuse, occasional use can be effective but over-use is the sign of a deeper problem.

The wonderful thing about Grammar is that it is timeless. Never goes out of date. I have had my Fowler's Modern English Usage for decades. It was first published in 1926. For people who care about such things, this is the most authoritative reference on the subject available.

In many polls and combined polls Trump is still leading by a wide margin... one poll said he broke 41%...

Trump is going to be the next U.S. President and he will cut the U.S. Budget in many ways even by cutting entire departments of government and scaling back others by 50%, government regulations will be gutted, government will get out of the way of the lives of Americans, Obama's Executive Orders will be thrown in the trash bin, Illegal Immigrants will be slowly pushed back home, Muslim 'refugees' will be sent back, the TSA will be gutted - then done away with over 2-3 years, Homeland Security will be gutted and streamlined if possible or responsibilities sent back to their original Departments, The FBI will begin again full blown surveillance of Mosques to determine which ones are dealing in fostering jihad, ISIS will be flattened, those who betrayed American under Obama will be investigated, prosecuted and punished... And that is about 30% of what Trump will do in the first 4 years...

ISIS will be flattened, those who betrayed American under Obama will be investigated, prosecuted and punished..

Let's start with GW Bush and his Dick Cheney at the Hague.

Regardless, the rightwhinge nutosphere is in for a huge change of plan. That is because America's National Front is also in for a big and decisive bust. Deservedly.

Sixty percent of Americans don’t think Donald Trump is qualified to be president

Sixty percent of Americans don't consider Donald Trump to be qualified to be president, according to new polling from the Washington Post and ABC News. Of registered voters, 56 percent hold that position, including over a third of Republicans.

That's a pretty remarkable figure. There's certainly an element of partisanship at play -- more than three-quarters of Democrats think he's unqualified -- but over 60 percent of independents think Trump is not qualified, compared to 37 percent who think he is.

https://www.washingt...o-be-president/

These numbers spell political d-o-o-m for Trump if he's nominated. The sentiment extends to Raphael "Ted" Cruz too btw. And the Republican party regardless of who the nominee may be.

Political polls conducted by Liberal News Media saying a Democrat would beat a Republican are as predictable as saying the Sun will rise in the morning.. The people who structure polls at Liberal news outfits are often leftists and socialist who see it is their duty to engineer what the populace gets to see. When they want a Democrat to be shown as a winner ... the poll sample is skewed to over sample likely Democrat voters by polling in voting precincts that have shown in the past to have heavy Democrat voting ... hardly guess work ... not even remotely random or balanced... They might as well say they did a poll and just post the numbers they want ... What is actually occurring in America is the largest conservative - real moderate populist uprisings in memory even including the involvement of blacks, hispanics and Democrats ... far eclipsing the pro Republican Congressional voting turnout of 2010 and 2014 - but the American political left just wants to pretend it does not exist..

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" (attributed. George Santayana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santayana_).

Here is what the New York Daily News wrote about Hannity after Romney did not win the 2012 Presidential election http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/sean-hannity-big-loser-2012-election-article-1.1228269

The article contains an interesting phrase - Intellectually Closed.

The idea of a "large conservative - real moderate populist uprising ... including ... blacks, hispanics and Democrats" is not actually a thing. It is generational and a new generation is here. They are not interested in the old culture wars. Most issues have been resolved to their satisfaction. Their issues are about income inequality, social justice, diversity, environment and communication. Nobody but a shrinking demographic is interested in the product of mid-20th C white cultural hegemony any more. No amount of wishful thinking, warped representation of data or other intellectually closed rationalisations can make it otherwise.

I guess the Aussies don't teach children to respect their elders.

Every person who visits Australia on a visa is required to sign a document that indicates that they have read Australia's Statement of Values https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Life/Aust/living-in-australia-values-statement-long. If you are considering a visit Down Under, then the link to form 1281 is https://www.border.gov.au/Forms/Documents/1281.pdf

You will of course notice that there is nothing there about respecting elders. In fact, egalitarianism features in the statement. It is integral to Australian society and culture. No-one gets respect that is not earned.

Even morons get old. They are still morons.

In many polls and combined polls Trump is still leading by a wide margin... one poll said he broke 41%...

Trump is going to be the next U.S. President and he will cut the U.S. Budget in many ways even by cutting entire departments of government and scaling back others by 50%, government regulations will be gutted, government will get out of the way of the lives of Americans, Obama's Executive Orders will be thrown in the trash bin, Illegal Immigrants will be slowly pushed back home, Muslim 'refugees' will be sent back, the TSA will be gutted - then done away with over 2-3 years, Homeland Security will be gutted and streamlined if possible or responsibilities sent back to their original Departments, The FBI will begin again full blown surveillance of Mosques to determine which ones are dealing in fostering jihad, ISIS will be flattened, those who betrayed American under Obama will be investigated, prosecuted and punished... And that is about 30% of what Trump will do in the first 4 years...

The new Messiah for old white men.

The advantage I guess of Trump's vague, off-the-cuff, populism is that his panting acolytes can insert their own wet dreams to fill the massive voids. Perhaps you might want to point to these specific policy actions are stated or published? They are not articulated on Trump's candidate website. There are no references to eviscerating government regulations. Nothing about the TSA. No mention of tasking the FBI to spy on American citizens who are followers of Islam. I also wonder under what authority, your anticipated witch-hunt against Obama administration officials will be enacted.

Pity then that there aren't enough old white men to get the Great Blowhard elected in any general election. Let's hope this is the last gasp of the nasties before they go the way of the dodo.

I voted not a UK citizen but support the ban.

Why, you ask?

I want to read all the moaning and wailing from the Brits on this forum in a year or so after a ban comes up and bites them in the posterior.

We've bailed them out enough. Let them sort out the problems this causes all by themselves.

You have 'bailed us out enough' ! Can you let us know where you have done that? Please do not include any incidences which include stepping in at the last minute when it suited you as you were getting a bloody nose.

As for Trump, banning him is a ridiculous idea when we can't even ban clerics at the Finsbury Park Mosque in London who openly call for the beheading of our own soldiers.

"Can you let us know where you have done that?"

Europe...twice

Europe yes. The UK no.

This is a particular favour of yours. I think some revisionism is needed. Perhaps you are entitled to the benefit of the doubt and the definition of 'saved' could be clarified. I take this to mean that the US 'saved' the UK from domination and occupation by hostile forces in WWI and WWII.

You will know that British naval superiority remained at the time of WWI and as well as sinking the Bismarck, the British navy had basically effectively blockaded the Germans. There was really not chance that the Germans could disengage from the trench warfare on the Western Front to consider an invasion of the UK. It is generally accepted that in addition to the influx of American soldiers after 1917, the deployment of the first armoured tanks, developed by the British, contributed to the defeat of the Germans.

For WWII, the most obvious display of US support came through the lend lease program before the US declared war after the attack by the Japanese. However, the UK deployed domestic resources to effectively block Operation Sea Lion, the plan for the invasion of the UK and with the opening of the second front against the Russians, it can be argued that the Germans could not have mounted a sea-borne attack on the UK.

I voted yes in the survey.

The petition in question was started by some lady in Scotland. It seems that she had some exposure to the Trump 'brand' through his failed golf course the story of which is told in the documentary 'You've Been Trumped' http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1943873/ Trumps tactics are on display here. His corruption of local people and institutions to push his grubby business was abominable. This Scottish lady was expressing a point of view and asking others to agree or disagree through an instrument recognised by the UK parliament. Good on her. She effectively stuck a blow against the kind of person who selfishly ruins lives in pursuit of his own vanity. This Scottish lady is no Savonarola but the astounding international support for her modest suggestion, which is 'stop this guy from coming to my home' must be quite a surprise to her. Of course the Trump demographic beat their breasts in outrage at this attack on free speech and the right of rich, old, white men to be racist, bigoted and self-servingly ignorant.

I did enjoy my visit to Dallas last year. Have been to Texas a few times but that was my first to Dallas. Some good restaurants and nice downtown areas near our conference hotel.

I don't believe you. Everyone who visits Texas is shot by vigilantes. I'm sure you noticed that everyone including women had a six shooter on the hip. How did you enjoy those meals with assault rifles on almost every table in the restaurant? How many times were you robbed at gunpoint? Did you enjoy the mass shootings in the restaurants while you were eating?

Next time be sure to keep your head down with all of the bullets that are flying around.

Cheers.

Well pity then that you are not on my FB list as you would have seen quite a few pictures of the enormous piles of food that we were served at one of the Tex Mex restaurants. The conference hotel was the Omni, quite near Daley Plaza which was the nearest I got to any shooting incident in all of my trips to the US since I first visited Oregon in 1980 to play basketball. I will keep a look out for your Friend request.

As a former gun owner until the 1996 legislation in Australia made it more difficult for me to retain my collection, I can respect a persons interest in guns for sport. Stricter controls and enforcement for urban environments and handguns including stricter controls of how guns can be stored, transported and fired are things I support as sensible and necessary. But it seems no one is allowed to take any position except for the polar extremes.

I do not subscribe to the view that the reason why I did not encounter bullets flying around in Dallas is that guns are less restricted there. I did not encounter bullets because I was statistically unlikely to do so and even less statistically likely to encounter any muslim suicide bombers there.

Effective gun control is possible in America. It is constitutional. It is feasible. It is sensible. It is a shame a minority of people will not allow it to happen.

Guns are not the real problem in america. The problem's are more about social and political changes . Political correctness,hand cuffs people women.s lib hand cuffs people,government agencies for family care handcuffs people,free housing and food and education is a major problem. America needs to wake up and bring reality back into the average Americans life.Stop giving handouts for everything.Stop being politically correct,stop feminism. Get people back to being responsible for themselves. Way to many idle hands in America living of the government with nothing better to do than make problems.

The ugly face of American exceptionalism.

Your Utopia is fine for white men and others whose parents did the hard work to set them up for success, but what about the rest? The numbers of citizens who cannot participate in your society are far greater than even Romney's 47% because you even exclude women.

That you would choose a thread on the awful, sickening and preventable atrocity of the deaths of children in Sandy Hook to give us the benefit of your non-social society is pretty disgusting.

Everybody is free to tell me the numbers are wrong ... but if so, please prove it !!!

Yes, the whole scientific community is wrong but you're right. Sure

That's not true at all.

Pretty much all real climate scientists have left the IPCC after finding out that the whole story has nothing

to do with science at all.

The scientific community [no the brainwash media community] has a very different view on the climate.

The good thing for the IPCC is, that people like you just follow every lie, no matter how big it is, just because it's on TV or in the newspaper!

... but if you are really so scared of CO2 you might want to ask the vulcanoes to stop errupting. Or the aints from decomposing wood ....

You have entirely no justification or evidence for your wild assertion that pretty much all real climate science have left the IPCC. Whey should be believe you on this? You have what credibility to make such a statement? If you are as immoderate on this issue, then how should we assess the validity of the numbers you have started throwing around.

Funny, you demand proofs that your numbers are wrong but then provide nothing in support of this ridiculous claim. From Wikipedia, a fairly obvious and easily access source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Climate_science_opinion2.png and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

It is called scientific consensus for a reason. Clearly you are not part of the solution. Clearly this is a vast conspiracy targeted against you personally. You have no power to influence the decision on the allocation of resources. Thank goodness. Keep tilting at windmills on social media.

I agree. I wouldn't have any trouble talking to them, but I'd speak very politely and I wouldn't argue. As a matter of fact, I would be inclined to do more listening than talking.....probably better all the way around.

If you don't go in with a chip on your shoulder, you aren't likely to have any problems.

These guys are ex-military trying to protect their unarmed brothers in the gun free recruiting offices. Nothing more.

The Republican Congress is trying to attach a ban removal amendment to a must-have piece of legislation so it won't be vetoed by Obama.

We will see.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/248685-mccarthy-says-defense-bill-could-lift-restrictions-on-military-guns

The volunteers were there to protect their comrades who were in a gun free zone. This workplace is a soft target and there is the potential for it to be attacked by muslim terrorists.

Out of curiosity, I thought of another soft target that is also a gun free zone. I did a search and found a listing for 675 pre-schools in Dallas. If you add in Grade Schools, Middle Schools, Hospitals, Planned Parenthood Clinics (or maybe there aren't any in Dallas) and other places that are peopled by those who are unable to defend themselves, you will have quite a few locations. How do we know that these will not be attacked on Sunday 13 December (US time)? We now know that they were not attacked on Saturday 12 December. What then of these gun free zones. Are the lives of children, the ill and infirm less worthy than the lives of military recruiting officers? Why are not questions being asked about the priorities of where these vigilantes hold their vigils?

I know we agreed to disagree but the whole gun free zone thing is just too much to let slide. Once you start down this road, where to you end up?

I did enjoy my visit to Dallas last year. Have been to Texas a few times but that was my first to Dallas. Some good restaurants and nice downtown areas near our conference hotel.

Cumgranosalum, I read and comprehend very well thanks, and I smell a con.

You seem to have an ability to be abrasive in your comments toward other posters if they don't agree. That may be an area you could work on.

Such conduct is often a sign of personality defects......intolerance and immaturity, frequently seen in your posts.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You don't seem to like it when someone does it to you.

Funny about that.

And that's bye-bye from 40,000 people -- until they get to do the same charade all over again next year in some agreeable venue. This is one gravy train nobody wants to get off.

I believe Marrakech in Morocco was originally chosen for next year's ritual, but that's looking increasingly unlikely with the terrorist unrest, so don't be surprised if they move it to somewhere more secure, like Tahiti, or Gstaad.

Upset you weren't invited? Never mind. There is always a chance for next year.

When you make an attack like this, you are expected to provide some measure of quantifiable justification. let me start off. I would suggest that zero attacks by terrorists have been prevented by gangs of nuts like the ones you are boosting.

You continue to issue instruction to posters as if you have some authority. Publicus is American. You are not. It is his homeland that is affected by this phenomenon, not yours. The CIA is prevented by law from operating on US soil. I really don't think you or these other rednecks have anything to offer America's security and intelligence agencies.

Is it OK with you if I wade in on this? I am an American, Texan and formerly lived in the city these young lads were protecting.

According to your exacting standards for posting entitlement, then that should make me imminently qualified to offer an

opinion on the subject.

Having said all that, terrorists nearly always look for soft targets. Soft targets would be identified as those targets that

don't have armed personnel around them to interfere with the terrorist's shooting spree.

Your comment that zero attacks have been thwarted is meaningless. How do you know there wasn't a plan to attack this

very same recruitment center where the armed civilians were in attendance but plans were changed by the terrorists when

they saw the armed personnel?

Your statement is speculative at best.

I understand you are not an American and my guess would b a European, Australian or a dual nationality even. Since you

are also not an American, please tell us exactly what you might have to offer America's security and intelligence agencies that

SgtRock might not possess..

My guess is the only contribution you could possibly make would be even more rhetoric than we have already been subjected to.

Well, Happy St Jodoc's Day, Charles. I do hope you raise a glass of Lao Khao to the brave Gallic Defender of the Faith.

I would sincerely love to address your points but in the world in which you are I engage, it seems that some citizens are more equal than others and my replies to your points seem to be out of order. I do thank you for acknowledging my Leadership however. I actually prefer a non-complicated life and the times that I have led teams are generally forced on me and I try to complete the tasks quickly and move on. However, I do believe in leading by example and I do hope you don't find meeting certain standards too onerous.

Also, in defence of rhetoric, I do find it more refreshing to hear the thoughts and arguments of people expressed in their own words instead of the quite boring 'argument by proxy'. You know, when people trawl through ideological publications and post the thoughts of others and say "Let me just offer this".

Again, I won't bite at the tidbits you offer and provide more information about myself but bi-nationality is still going down the wrong track. I keep telling you.

You ask me directly what contribution I could make to the US Security Agencies? Why? I make no claim otherwise? The ramblings of some ex British cop notwithstanding, I have always maintained that the kind of terrorism that your 'volunteers' are seeking to combat is a criminal activity best countered by the criminal justice institutions in each country. Australia and the UK have both demonstrated this. Military and para-military responses are entirely inappropriate. From most recent memory, I think the lessons from the Balkans is pertinent in demonstrating the consequences of nationalism and chauvinistic extremism gone mad.

I have told you before that I have lived, worked and paid taxes in America in my past. I do not claim this gives any more rights or insights than any other person, American or non American. I would like to continue but it seems we are destined to be constantly thwarted in our relationship by the powers that be. No matter. I look forward to your next offering.

And a Happy Republic of Malta day to you too. **

Sadly I don't drink, contrary to popular belief, so raising my glass of Lao Khao would be an empty gesture. I will sip my coffee delicately if that might be found acceptable.

It would seem we must agree to disagree. This would therefore entail my last offering here. Perhaps in another thread someday?

** Yeah, I had to look it up, as well as St. Jodoc's day. I am not Catholic so your good wishes meant little to me. It is heartwarming to get a hint that you might have been raised Catholic, perhaps going astray at a later stage in life. Too bad as you seem well educated, if perhaps a bit wordy.

See you around the campfire.

Graze hafna Chuck. Sadly, you are perfectly correct that there appears to be no middle ground on this issue. I rarely encounter this. I have tended to favour Hegelian Synthesis in dialectic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis,_antithesis,_synthesis. Perhaps I am too simplistic but the idea of these + antithesis = synthesis does not seem to stand the test of dialectic involving Texas Republicans and Australian liberals (there you have it). This, to me, is a worrying sociological flaw.

I'm glad I was not too obtuse on the religious thing. I wanted to play on the kind of logic that we encounter constantly on TVF. You are Christian. Catholics are Christian. You think the same as them. (substitute Islam and you get my point). And I too used the internet since not even devoted Catholics would remember the multiple Saints for every day of the year. And if it helps your other mission, no I am not lapsed but the person you think I am, is.

So farewell. I doubt we will meet again. I mean how many opportunities do you think could arise on TVF for a debate to occur on gun control, muslim immigration or US politics?

I admit to verbosity as a failing. I can control it for certain professional tasks. Writing for social media is still something of a learning experience. I have tried different styles. I admire concise and succinct expression and I will continue to strive for it.

lostboy, on 13 Dec 2015 - 12:07, said:

SgtRock, on 13 Dec 2015 - 08:44, said:

lostboy, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:53, said:lostboy, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:53, said:

When you make an attack like this, you are expected to provide some measure of quantifiable justification. let me start off. I would suggest that zero attacks by terrorists have been prevented by gangs of nuts like the ones you are boosting.

You continue to issue instruction to posters as if you have some authority. Publicus is American. You are not. It is his homeland that is affected by this phenomenon, not yours. The CIA is prevented by law from operating on US soil. I really don't think you or these other rednecks have anything to offer America's security and intelligence agencies.

And you can provide quantifiable justification ?

The clue was in the word '' Potential '' The unknown cannot be quantified.

Phrases such as '' I would suggest '' '' I really don't think '' along with your false and wrong assumptions shows you for what you really.

You have a good day now

Quantifiable? Dunno. You were the one making the asinine claim.

Most of the World does not choose to live in the fantasy construct of right wing loons. We choose confidence over fear; engagement over cravenness; progress over stagnant conservatism. I enjoyed the movie Minority Report with Tom Cruise. But it was fantasy. Precognition does not exist as far as I know.

I see you keep doubling down on your silliness in subsequent posts. Keep entertaining us with your fantasy scenarios. it is a mildly amusing diversion. Meanwhile the normal people will deal with reality and work their way though it as best we can.

Your third sentence is missing a verb. I really want to know what my assumptions show me as according to your razor wit.

You really a poor little misguided soul aren't you.

According to you fantasy is the construct or right wing loons, but here you are embellishing your enjoyment of fantasy movies. I will have to take your word for that as I have never seen it.

Precognition does not exist as far as you know ? By implication you do not know that it does exist either. Never heard of Nostradamus ? I believe he is world renowned.

Yet again, nothing to say about the topic or the supplementary issues that the topic raises.

I could tell you what your wrong assumptions show. My issue is, I don't really think that you would understand.

So with that I will we can part verbal company.

You keep flouncing off. As if you have any say in the matter.

Exploding your inane fantasy on the number of attacks the Texas Derangers have prevented in this parody of Dad's Army is entirely and precisely on topic. Claiming otherwise is further evidence of straws beyond your rhetorical reach. You started the moronic argument that you now claim as a supplementary issue and don't have the chops to maintain it. Your constant descent to ad hominem is a boringly predictable reversion to type. Your slings and arrows are quite ineffective.

Assumptions are not facts. That is the point. People who are prepared to grow and learn understand that assumptions can be proved or disproved. This line of attack is like being flogged by wet lettuce. Again, reversion to type. You see it constantly from a certain type of poster who has only ever engaged with people of similar views and backgrounds and has never been called on their bs.

I will count the minutes until you flounce back. Snide sarcasm is always a tonic for weekend blues.

Publicus, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:00, said:

USA does not need these gunslingers assigning themselves their own chosen task of defending the homeland against the people who live in the homeland, i.e., Americans who are Muslim.

These rednecks are gun nuts who are cooking up any reason they can to pull the trigger. This is what these crackpots live for.

This tiny number of Americans believe that running around looking for people to shoot makes 'em patriots. They are idiots.

The homeland needs to be defended against rednecks with guns. Second Amendment is not a license to run around on the loose under a flag to kill people you want to be your enemy.

Something for you to think about.

For all your bluster, redneck gun nut slurs, who are not patriots merely idiots.

You have no idea how many potential attacks these people may have stopped by just being rednecks. Nor the FBI, Nor the CIA or whatever other alphabet soup America has.

You might want to tone down the rhetoric.

When you make an attack like this, you are expected to provide some measure of quantifiable justification. let me start off. I would suggest that zero attacks by terrorists have been prevented by gangs of nuts like the ones you are boosting.

You continue to issue instruction to posters as if you have some authority. Publicus is American. You are not. It is his homeland that is affected by this phenomenon, not yours. The CIA is prevented by law from operating on US soil. I really don't think you or these other rednecks have anything to offer America's security and intelligence agencies.

Is it OK with you if I wade in on this? I am an American, Texan and formerly lived in the city these young lads were protecting.

According to your exacting standards for posting entitlement, then that should make me imminently qualified to offer an

opinion on the subject.

Having said all that, terrorists nearly always look for soft targets. Soft targets would be identified as those targets that

don't have armed personnel around them to interfere with the terrorist's shooting spree.

Your comment that zero attacks have been thwarted is meaningless. How do you know there wasn't a plan to attack this

very same recruitment center where the armed civilians were in attendance but plans were changed by the terrorists when

they saw the armed personnel?

Your statement is speculative at best.

I understand you are not an American and my guess would b a European, Australian or a dual nationality even. Since you

are also not an American, please tell us exactly what you might have to offer America's security and intelligence agencies that

SgtRock might not possess..

My guess is the only contribution you could possibly make would be even more rhetoric than we have already been subjected to.

Well, Happy St Jodoc's Day, Charles. I do hope you raise a glass of Lao Khao to the brave Gallic Defender of the Faith.

I would sincerely love to address your points but in the world in which you are I engage, it seems that some citizens are more equal than others and my replies to your points seem to be out of order. I do thank you for acknowledging my Leadership however. I actually prefer a non-complicated life and the times that I have led teams are generally forced on me and I try to complete the tasks quickly and move on. However, I do believe in leading by example and I do hope you don't find meeting certain standards too onerous.

Also, in defence of rhetoric, I do find it more refreshing to hear the thoughts and arguments of people expressed in their own words instead of the quite boring 'argument by proxy'. You know, when people trawl through ideological publications and post the thoughts of others and say "Let me just offer this".

Again, I won't bite at the tidbits you offer and provide more information about myself but bi-nationality is still going down the wrong track. I keep telling you.

You ask me directly what contribution I could make to the US Security Agencies? Why? I make no claim otherwise? The ramblings of some ex British cop notwithstanding, I have always maintained that the kind of terrorism that your 'volunteers' are seeking to combat is a criminal activity best countered by the criminal justice institutions in each country. Australia and the UK have both demonstrated this. Military and para-military responses are entirely inappropriate. From most recent memory, I think the lessons from the Balkans is pertinent in demonstrating the consequences of nationalism and chauvinistic extremism gone mad.

I have told you before that I have lived, worked and paid taxes in America in my past. I do not claim this gives any more rights or insights than any other person, American or non American. I would like to continue but it seems we are destined to be constantly thwarted in our relationship by the powers that be. No matter. I look forward to your next offering.

lostboy, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:53, said:

SgtRock, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:22, said:

Publicus, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:00, said:Publicus, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:00, said:

USA does not need these gunslingers assigning themselves their own chosen task of defending the homeland against the people who live in the homeland, i.e., Americans who are Muslim.

These rednecks are gun nuts who are cooking up any reason they can to pull the trigger. This is what these crackpots live for.

This tiny number of Americans believe that running around looking for people to shoot makes 'em patriots. They are idiots.

The homeland needs to be defended against rednecks with guns. Second Amendment is not a license to run around on the loose under a flag to kill people you want to be your enemy.

Something for you to think about.

For all your bluster, redneck gun nut slurs, who are not patriots merely idiots.

You have no idea how many potential attacks these people may have stopped by just being rednecks. Nor the FBI, Nor the CIA or whatever other alphabet soup America has.

You might want to tone down the rhetoric.

When you make an attack like this, you are expected to provide some measure of quantifiable justification. let me start off. I would suggest that zero attacks by terrorists have been prevented by gangs of nuts like the ones you are boosting.

You continue to issue instruction to posters as if you have some authority. Publicus is American. You are not. It is his homeland that is affected by this phenomenon, not yours. The CIA is prevented by law from operating on US soil. I really don't think you or these other rednecks have anything to offer America's security and intelligence agencies.

And you can provide quantifiable justification ?

The clue was in the word '' Potential '' The unknown cannot be quantified.

Phrases such as '' I would suggest '' '' I really don't think '' along with your false and wrong assumptions shows you for what you really.

You have a good day now

Quantifiable? Dunno. You were the one making the asinine claim.

Most of the World does not choose to live in the fantasy construct of right wing loons. We choose confidence over fear; engagement over cravenness; progress over stagnant conservatism. I enjoyed the movie Minority Report with Tom Cruise. But it was fantasy. Precognition does not exist as far as I know.

I see you keep doubling down on your silliness in subsequent posts. Keep entertaining us with your fantasy scenarios. it is a mildly amusing diversion. Meanwhile the normal people will deal with reality and work their way though it as best we can.

Your third sentence is missing a verb. I really want to know what my assumptions show me as according to your razor wit.

The new generation is coming and it is multicultural.

They're coming alright…the millennials…a bunch of soft arsed PC nodders who would shrivel up and die without their twitter and farcebook and the chance to share the most uninteresting details of their flaccid lives with strangers online.

What do these people know about keeping a country safe…they can barely look after themselves.

For them life is about ….ohhh someone shot up our town…..lets have a concert to show we are strong….lets tweet a hashtag to show we are united…..how lame.

But what do you care? You've had your shot. You won't be around when the Millenials have to deal with the outcome of their cultural, social, political and economic contributions. One thing they know is that a lot of their efforts will have to be spent on fixing the environmental damage caused by previous generations.

Your language is is uncompromising. My experience of this generation of my extended family and of friends on 3 different continents is very different. I am constantly amazed by the sensitivity and awareness of these wonderful and beautiful people.

On hash-tags, I have not learned to be comfortable with these but I remember when that Australian of Iranian heritage took over a coffee shop and killed a number of innocent people in what was proven not to be an 'islamic terrorist' attack (the hysterical types forgot about the difference between Shia and Sunni in their zeal), someone started a hash-tag #Illridewithyou to provide safe escorts to Muslim people in Australia in the face of low class, violent bigots and racists. I do not share your scorn for social media. This particular action was a prideful event for a proud Australian.

When you were younger did you ever think the sort of reactionary crap that you post would come out of you? It is so disappointingly cliche really. I'd rather stay with the young people and leave the grumpy old farts to their giks on the beaches of Thailand.

Trump reflects the will of the people... not vice versa ....

Indeed.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/12/09/most-americans-dislike-islam/

I read that 1 in 5 Democrats agree with Trump on this.

You are reaching. Or maybe just wishful thinking. Viewing Islam unfavourably is by no means an expression of support for Trump. Most of those surveyed admit they do not know anything of Islam. I would say that a majority of those people, if they learned more about Islam from someone other than Geller or her hate-mongering acolytes, would change that view. Importantly, under 35's are less likely to have an unfavourable view of Islam.

The grumpy old troglodytes' days are numbered. The new generation is coming and it is multicultural. The bigots and haters on the margins will be pushed further to the edge of irrelevance.

It sounds as if your comment applies to both sides. The grumpy old troglodytes of the wests days

may be numbered but it appears the days of the young, Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, Egyptian, Somali,

Indonesian, Saudi, Libyan, Pakistani, etc..... troglodytes has arrived. I have two brothers born in

Indonesia, and I lived there for a short time in my youth. Indonesia has swung hard to the right

in regards to the teachings of Islam. I would be hard pressed to think of any (as in I know no country)

predominantly Muslim population that has not become more fundamental in its teachings of Islam.

Trump may be in the lead in regards to US politicians expressing this view now, but as predominantly

Muslim countries swing further to the right the Donald's position will be seen as pragmatic.

I do not touch on socio-cultural issues in Islamic countries. I guess I have worked in about a dozen or so, from Turkey to Afghanistan to Indonesia. On a superficial level, I would probably agree with your assessment about the move away from liberalism in Muslim countries. But can this be explained through a broad brush approach? I enjoyed working with Turkish officials and the country remains very secular but the context there is quite unique. The secularism of the first President, Ataturk being maintain for generations by the military and the move to more rigid Islam seeming to be a reaction against military dictatorship and control. Afghanistan was on the hippy trail in the 70's when mini skirts could be seen in Cairo and Beirut. American took a sharp turn to the right after the swinging 60's and 70's when they voted Reagan and Michael J. Fox played a popular TV character who was a right wing preppy frat boy. And you have made a number of observations about Indonesia.

I am not really an orientalist in terms of scholarship. My interest in that region ended after Constantinople finally fell to the Muslim Turks in 1453, contributing to the Renaissance through the release of thousands of books from the libraries filtering through to the West. I also have an interest in linguistics, particularly the history of languages and the interpretation of lost languages. So I 'pop into' that region occasionally particularly when the 18th and 19th C europeans started to develop the science of archaeology and using archaeological principles to translate languages like Egyptian hieroglyphs, Assyrian Cuneiform and others.

You point to the new generation of Islamists and their role in radicalisation and the threats they pose to other societies. Yes, I agree that this is a trend but I don't have any answers on the cause or consequences without more thought. Does this trend in itself justify the imposition of travel bans on Muslims to the US as advocated by Trump? It would be foolish to say that there is not a line from these fundamentalist zealots and the carnage that exists in many countries and terrorist attacks in the West. I would caution against oversimplification. To give Trump his due, after announcing this 'brain-fart' of a strategy, he did qualify it to say 'until we work out what to do'. I almost had to swallow my tongue at hearing something sensible until he elaborated with his usual empty headed ideas. Seeking such a pause is probably not very meaningful since it really isn't up to Trump or Americans in terms of what Muslims do and it might be argued that the touch of a number of American institutions has been quite heavy in the region over the past few decades.

I don't agree with your final sentence but unless the hysteria can be controlled, you may well be proved right.

I think the points you raise are worthy of discussion. It won't happen. There is no engagement. Bigotry and hatred supported by commercially oriented websites that push twisted ideological agendas reign supreme at the moment. The current US President has tried to engage but is trapped by the institutions that form the national security state surrounding him pushing the drones and the 'military option' and the rest of the Right Agenda. The next President needs to also be a leader on this. Not a stirrer.

Publicus, on 12 Dec 2015 - 21:00, said:

USA does not need these gunslingers assigning themselves their own chosen task of defending the homeland against the people who live in the homeland, i.e., Americans who are Muslim.

These rednecks are gun nuts who are cooking up any reason they can to pull the trigger. This is what these crackpots live for.

This tiny number of Americans believe that running around looking for people to shoot makes 'em patriots. They are idiots.

The homeland needs to be defended against rednecks with guns. Second Amendment is not a license to run around on the loose under a flag to kill people you want to be your enemy.

Something for you to think about.

For all your bluster, redneck gun nut slurs, who are not patriots merely idiots.

You have no idea how many potential attacks these people may have stopped by just being rednecks. Nor the FBI, Nor the CIA or whatever other alphabet soup America has.

You might want to tone down the rhetoric.

When you make an attack like this, you are expected to provide some measure of quantifiable justification. let me start off. I would suggest that zero attacks by terrorists have been prevented by gangs of nuts like the ones you are boosting.

You continue to issue instruction to posters as if you have some authority. Publicus is American. You are not. It is his homeland that is affected by this phenomenon, not yours. The CIA is prevented by law from operating on US soil. I really don't think you or these other rednecks have anything to offer America's security and intelligence agencies.

having the racist gun toting freak squads pouring off the potatoe farms waving their guns and shouting racist garbage outside the mosques is not going to win the rest of the world over in uniting against Islam and that is the only way that we are going to win against Islam. These guys and their ilk in europe are doing nobody any favors. Islam has made enemies not only in Europe but in Asia and Africa and elsewhere and it has been that way for centuries. Islam has to be forced into a corner by the whole rest of the world and taken out. Until non-lunatics wake up and say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done, then we are really up against two big problems: Islamofacism and white supramicists who would just as soon lynch our allies.

When you wake up and actually realise that the problem in the world at the moment is caused by Islam and muslims, you may stop at having a go at "gun toting white racists" ??

Seeing as the governments are not doing anything to eradicate this filth, people are choosing to take their own advice and do something themselves. People like you who sit at your desk accusing anyone who you feel is fair game at any point in time, well, let's just say that you will be safe either way. Either the "gun toting racists" will save you from Islam, or when the muslims come for you, no doubt you will be radicalised without any protest?

The problem with people like you Shaun, is that you love using words like "racist" "gun toting" "pouring off potato farms" are in fact discriminatory themselves!!! So the next time you are categorising people whilst doing the same as the very people you are accusing . . . . maybe look in the mirror? Because looking back is a hypocrite

A bigot complains about being called a bigot because the word bigot is discriminatory. Absolutely hilarious. Clearly a logical fallacy but these days, the keyboard warriors don't have knowledge of the old arts. In this case, we can see polysyllogism at work as a result of some fundamental ignorance of rhetoric.

As a measure of your own bigotry, I identify the correlation between 'islam and muslims' and 'eradicate this filth'. As a measure of your idiocy, i point to the assumption that anti-racists will naturally join radicalised invaders (of whom there doesn't seem to be any sign in real life).

The perpetuation of fallacy and myth by the more hysterical, unbalanced types who seem to live in fear must be of enormous concern to Muslim American citizens who, protected by the first amendment, go about worshiping their faith. Religious freedoms under the US Constitution do not apply to Muslims? Armed hooligans standing picket outside mosques in America is of course, nothing to worry about.

Patriots is not an appropriate term for these hoons. Neither is it appropriate for their fellow travellers here on TVF. More precisely, there are shades of Deliverance in this phenomenon.

I am wondering why you suggest we should follow the advice of a homeless guy in need of a bathe?

In the old days, weren't these guys called hobos and not welcome in polite society?

Trump reflects the will of the people... not vice versa ....

Indeed.

https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/12/09/most-americans-dislike-islam/

I read that 1 in 5 Democrats agree with Trump on this.

You are reaching. Or maybe just wishful thinking. Viewing Islam unfavourably is by no means an expression of support for Trump. Most of those surveyed admit they do not know anything of Islam. I would say that a majority of those people, if they learned more about Islam from someone other than Geller or her hate-mongering acolytes, would change that view. Importantly, under 35's are less likely to have an unfavourable view of Islam.

The grumpy old troglodytes' days are numbered. The new generation is coming and it is multicultural. The bigots and haters on the margins will be pushed further to the edge of irrelevance.

He is right and whether he becomes President or not, at some point in the future the world will wake up to the fact we our in a world war with a radical, spiteful and jealous religion.

Can you name one atrocity in the recent times not committed by Muslims?

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim

The Beltway Snipers were Muslims

The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim

The underwear Bomber was a Muslim

The U.S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims

The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims

The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims

The London Subway Bombers were Muslims

The Moscow Theater Attackers were Muslims

The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims

The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims

The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims

The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims

The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims

The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims

The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims

The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims

The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims

The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims

The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims

The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims

The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims

The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims

The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims

The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims

Here you go http://www.shootingtracker.com/wiki/Mass_Shootings_in_2015 More than 350 to choose from, just for 2015.

By the way, it is generally considered a courtesy to provide a source when you copy someone else's work.

What purpose do you serve by spreading your fear? Are you running for President too?

Like Trump proposed not allowing Muslims in the country

the Bush billionaire supporter proposed not allowing idiots to vote which would eliminate Trumps base

only one problem

It would also eliminate most Republicans,and................

Trump stumbled and bumbled in his style, but he did clarify that "banning" is justified "until we understand what is going on in islam with all the hate, anger and terrorism against the west and US. He did say we "have to talk with muslim leaders to understand what's going on in those mosques. It's a legitimate inquiry.

not unlike understanding what's going on in the minds of Trump supporters, or the lack of.

Is that all you have? Just insults? Nothing to add to the topic? Just gibberish?

And you're the one with the brains, LOL?

Cheers.

You keep saying to others that they don't get it. Yet on this you are in the dark. Of course the groundswell for Trump is a rebellion against the Establishment. What this does to the party is still to be seen. But for those who do not exist among the minority of people who support Trump and this includes non Republicans, non Americans and everyone else who is observing the show, Trump does not deserve serious discussion. He is the Great Laughingstock. He deserves nothing but disdain. What coherent, policy driven discussion can you have in response to his proposal to ban all muslims by having Immigration asking if people are Muslims? Nothing that Trump has said, in my view, deserves any serious consideration or response.

You describe such reaction as gibberish. I describe it as illuminating to any thinking, experienced and knowledgeable political pundit. This, by the way, does not include the fantasists who live in their own bubble.