Mr Creosote

One free camel and/or goat per refugee. Problem solved.

Yet nobody saw this guy being carried out of the building all bound and gagged? Weird.

Is this the first crackdown announcement for 2016? I have lost count.

Mystical figures.

Probably not. Its not the kind of numbers a government wants to display. Deflation is very hard to reverse out of (just look at the problems Japan had). Expect a BoT rate rise.

But the prices keep going up !,one example Boiled Ham was 67 THB for long time ,4-5 slices in Packet,

now 80 THB for 3 slices,prices for goods should be coming down,with the decrease in petrol prices,but

they are not,when petrol rises 1 THB,price of most things increase.

regards Worgeordie

This link is the consumer basket used to measure inflation. Its not up to date:

http://www.indexpr.moc.go.th/price_present/cpi/data/index_47_e.asp?list_month=01&list_year=2556&list_region=country

You make it sound like Thailand has some obligation to offer a home to poor foreigners.

The METV is for tourists who would normally travel from their own country. A single entry tourist visa and frequently a visa waiver option is available for those in the region. I struggle to see what category of people we are talking of here. People who do not have 500,000 available and are under 50 yes? Do you feel Thailand should reduce the retirement age limit for a retirement extension? To what number, 50 is already over 15 years below UK retirement age?

There are many countries who are very much more 'unfair' with respect to foreigners just going there to live.

What are you resting your case on?

I am standing by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to the average under 50 who wants to stay long term. I am not interested in what other countries do and don't do.

We will just leave it there and agree to disagree.

I have a question: What a under 50 year old want to do in Thailand longterm?

So far I know he is not a tourist, he not work (else would have a work permit). And if you say he have enough money for can stay longer in Thailand, longer than 6 month... then he should be rich enough for a Thai Elite Visa!

Yes I agree, there are a very few people who want make a 1 year travel (time off working in homecountry). But this mean most time different countries for 1 year and not only 1 country. So the initial question stays...

I myself can't think of one reason why a under 50 years old want stay in thailand. Maybe I forget something.. but till know I understand the strategy of Thailand. If i were in charge, I even would look more for the overtayers, because they should know exactly how many overstayers they have in the country... They have an entry date in the computer and no exit date.. and this are the people stay actually in the country.

People do retire in their forties, they may have been on holiday in Thailand and fell in love, but do not want to get married.

They may have rented property in their home country, they may have inheritance of some sort.

Again I say it, the Thai government is not fair to under fifties, who want to stay long time and contribute to their economy.

They may not want to stay for five years, so why should they have to spend 500,000 Bt on an elite visa?

Do you have any idea of what percentage of people under 50 fall into that category? Not many that I have run into. The fact is that many (most) are simply breaking the laws of the land. Simple.

They need to go to a Unix based operating system

They also need to hire real IT professionals who can read and understand English. The almost security bulletins and updates/patches that come out are not in Thai language and most of these guys do not keep up to date on security measure, largely because they cannot understand any English (among other reasons). Windows based servers are notoriously insecure and must be kept locked down. Users must have social media and other insecure applications blocked and must be trained on the various methods of social engineering, which dupes many into giving away sensitive information. Ideally, these machines need to be running UNIX/LINUX based server software and not only firewalls installed but also software that alerts Admins to "door knob rattling" (attempts to hack in).

Part of the problem is that IT is not the best paid profession in Thailand and therefore isn't very attractive, as a profession, for the best and brightest.

More than likely the banks are using mainframes at the back-end, probably IBM machines, possibly running UNIX-like operating systems. International-standard stuff.

Those mainframes will be dumping data overnight to data warehouses, possibly Microsoft SQL Server, which power the back-end of those ASP.NET websites.

The idea that they need to move to UNIX/Linux-based software is absurd to boost security. Microsoft Windows Server and SQL Server are standard platforms around the world and, like any operating system and application software, should be configured with security in mind. This applies to Linux and its software as much as Windows. If all your web developers are Microsoft trained then why re-invest in a training them on a different platform? Better to spend the money on security training.

What he said :-)

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

Do tell us how "visa cheats" makes it more and more difficult for you to obtain your visa ??

I have seen and felt the changes over many years but especially over the past 5-10 years. This last year alone, they have made requirements for providing lease agreements or ownership documents on the place you live plus now requiring a visit from immigration officials to your home to photograph officials, with the applicant, in the home (humiliating and time consuming). They interview building management to make sure you are not lying to them (in the case of marriage visas and probably retirement); they want up to the day bank statements (bank book) because they believe people are cheating by borrowing money for the requisite time to show funds in the bank. In the case of student visas, cheats are faking that they are studying in real schools just to get one year visas so now applicants are tested by Immigration officials, schools visited etc.

The cheaters create an environment of mistrust leading to an attitude that ALL foreigners are lying cheats and this means more paperwork, more delays, more hassles, more rules.

I've been here 15 years now, without any of the nonsense you mention above.

I think they're after you............ohh, and don't go to sleep without checking the wardrobe for the boogie man!!!!

So in your 15 years here, the requirements for documentation etc haven't changed one bit? You haven't been delayed or asked for more documents/procedures? If you are saying this then you either have a VERY good contact inside the system or you are not telling the truth or you are part of the problem and somehow cheating the system. I have been here 25 years. I pay my taxes. I have NEVER overstayed nor worked illegally. Yes, I followed the rules here as a guest of the Kingdom and the rules and red tape keep on getting thicker. If everyone was following the rules, it stands to reason that the procedures would get simpler, not more difficult.

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

Do tell us how "visa cheats" makes it more and more difficult for you to obtain your visa ??

I have seen and felt the changes over many years but especially over the past 5-10 years. This last year alone, they have made requirements for providing lease agreements or ownership documents on the place you live plus now requiring a visit from immigration officials to your home to photograph officials, with the applicant, in the home (humiliating and time consuming). They interview building management to make sure you are not lying to them (in the case of marriage visas and probably retirement); they want up to the day bank statements (bank book) because they believe people are cheating by borrowing money for the requisite time to show funds in the bank. In the case of student visas, cheats are faking that they are studying in real schools just to get one year visas so now applicants are tested by Immigration officials, schools visited etc.

The cheaters create an environment of mistrust leading to an attitude that ALL foreigners are lying cheats and this means more paperwork, more delays, more hassles, more rules.

I have only 1 online savings account in Thailand and would never keep more then 10000 baht in that account.

The security for logging in to Thai bank online accounts is weak to say the least, only requires a user name and password to sign in whereas my UK online account requires 5 different processes to sign into my account.

Me too. However, I was told recently at Immigration that I should have my requisite 400K (for marriage visa) in my Thai account rather than my international bank account here because international banks dont use bank books (book banks?). Even after giving them a signed and stamped print out of my bank activity from the Thai branch of the international bank, they fussed and recommended I put money into the Thai bank. No <deleted> way.

I have a Sterling account and a Baht account with the same Thai bank, and Immigration are happy to accept both. The Sterling account doesn't issue a bank book but monthly statements. Three of those make the Immigration happy.

Lucky for you. At Samut Prakarn Imm. they balked until we kicked up a fuss. They wanted a statement ON THE DAY of visa application which is impossible to do, since my branch is downtown BKK. I gave them an updated statement from the day before with more than enough to cover the minimum balance but they still fussed. I will probably drop 400K in the Thai account two months before the visa date and hope nobody hacks me. LOL.

I am not advocating overstay or even asking they not be picked up when found. I am stating and will hold to it- that this is a civil situation and not criminal unlike a robbery, rape, or murder or anything that violates another person. Whether they pay taxes or not is a civil matter and I doubt they would owe any since they are low income. The majority of people on overstay simply do not have the money to get legal. Based on this, there is no reason for any police force anywhere to spend its valuable resources tracking these people down. They pose no threat to life or liberty. The police should be focused-on real crimes and real criminals not wasting time on those who are unfortunate. You , who are so eager to see these unfortunate people jailed and then expelled might want to show some sympathy to your fellow human being. If an Embassy really wanted to help their citizens, they would reach out and offer a solution rather than sit back and wait until their citizens are either dead or jailed.

Overstaying IS a crime. You can whine & moan & weep all you want about what you think are "serious" crimes and what you think are not, but that and 22baht will get you to the next BTS station. Your defense of overstayers (yes, man up; you're defending them) based on the more important things YOU THINK the police have to do amounts to even less. The crime really is the increased scrutiny and inconvenience brought on foreigners who are in the country legally BY those who are NOT. So, if you could spare a few brain cells to do so, you'd undersrand that this overstaying is NOT a "victimless crime"; those who've accepted the responsibility to be here legally are ALL victimized by it.

Totally agree. Now those of us who abide by the laws have to spend more time and get into more paperwork hassles with Immigration largely because of visa cheats. It gets worse every year.

I have only 1 online savings account in Thailand and would never keep more then 10000 baht in that account.

The security for logging in to Thai bank online accounts is weak to say the least, only requires a user name and password to sign in whereas my UK online account requires 5 different processes to sign into my account.

Me too. However, I was told recently at Immigration that I should have my requisite 400K (for marriage visa) in my Thai account rather than my international bank account here because international banks dont use bank books (book banks?). Even after giving them a signed and stamped print out of my bank activity from the Thai branch of the international bank, they fussed and recommended I put money into the Thai bank. No &lt;deleted&gt; way.

Start with scrapping the Windows XP i think most of your computers is running on. Get proper firewalls and uppdated virusprogram, but you´r stii not safe.

They also need to hire real IT professionals who can read and understand English. The almost security bulletins and updates/patches that come out are not in Thai language and most of these guys do not keep up to date on security measure, largely because they cannot understand any English (among other reasons). Windows based servers are notoriously insecure and must be kept locked down. Users must have social media and other insecure applications blocked and must be trained on the various methods of social engineering, which dupes many into giving away sensitive information. Ideally, these machines need to be running UNIX/LINUX based server software and not only firewalls installed but also software that alerts Admins to "door knob rattling" (attempts to hack in).

Part of the problem is that IT is not the best paid profession in Thailand and therefore isn't very attractive, as a profession, for the best and brightest.

There seems to be a lot of interest on this topic. I wonder how many outraged TF'ers here are on overstay or working illegally on tourist visas.

Don Mega, some people may not feel like paying out 500.000 Bt, for five years and getting nothing in return with the Elite Visa.

Thats entirely up to them but to say there is no long term options available to those who are under 50 and do not want to work or get married is a complete fallacy.

I am not saying there are no long term options for those under fifty, I am saying that Thailand should make it easier for them.

There are lots of under fifties from Western countries who would be an asset to Thailand, I am talking mainly about ordinary working class people.

I get what you are saying but, if you are here on a visit as a legitimate tourist, then presumably you have a job to go back to at home when you leave. You know, earning an income. If you are wealthy and younger than 50 and do not need to work for a living, I can see the problem. Your only option then is an Elite Card, which is set up for precisely those people. The thing is, there just aren't many that fit the bill of being under 50 and wealthy enough to retire. In reality, many of these people are working illegally on tourist visas, which is a crime.

Is there actually enough space in the Pattaya jail to house all these people? I could imaging that being in a jailhouse full of old sex pests would be quite a horrible experience. ;-)

What's all the fuss about. Its 10 bucks. If a tourist cannot afford ten bucks well....maybe he/she should stay at home.

Anyhow, I don't know what al the fuss is about. It's 10 bucks. So what. If a tourist cannot afford 10 bucks then maybe they shouldn't be here.

From the linked Khaosod English article:

"He also did the math for its potential windfall.

“If there are 30 million tourists, Thailand will earn 10.8 billion baht per year from this fee, and it will help each province earn around 142 million baht to improve its tourism,” he said."

He is very optimistic isn't he.

Now, I assume, if implemented, all foreigners that enter on a tourist visa or 'visa on arrival', would have to pay this fee.

This means that we would later know, once and for all, if the tourists numbers presented by TAT (23 million or so tourists a year) is

in fact correct (and that they are not just counting every foreigner entering, also those on non-immigrant visas).

It does create a conundrum doesn't it. If they try to nick some of the cash and underreport, then the TAT numbers of arrivals go down. Six of one, half a dozen of another.

So...will this fee be levied on the daily border crossers from Malaysia at the southern border? The Malaysian so-called "tourist" numbers are a favourite for the TAT to quote so I wonder if this applies to them?

Not a single praise for this airline so far, let me provide some balance.

"On routes between BKK and the UK for example Thai are at best double the price of qatar & Etihad"

Thai may be expensive BKK-LHR return but no way is it consistently double. All airlines tend to be able to charge more for flights originating from the home country. It certainly is not the case LHR-BKK return which is now close to £500 and then you get a domestic return for about £30 extra.

"the website is terminally dysfunctional"

I can't really defend this but I found Singapore Air's worse.

"Going to the UK next week. Usually fly Thai business class. Though I would look at Emirates to see if I could do better. Emirates first class (Own cabin, horizontal flat bad and shower facilities on A380 was cheaper than Thai business class by quite a big margin."

Emirates first does not compare well with Thai first although it is 3 years since I flew Emirates.

"Only down side is stop in Dubai" Exactly. A deal breaking downside for me. You've been asleep a couple of hours when you are woken up for landing so you can walk around like a zombie for 2 or more hours before you can get on another plane and sleep some more.

"Google needs to tweek the algorithm a bit so as not to place Thai ads on threads slamming Thai Airways"

Use an Ad-blocker. Not all of us slam.

"It's funny that they focus just on the revenue forecasts and not operating profits.

You know why? It hasn't made money in decades. Losses every year."

Not true, Thai made a profit when Amranand was CEO but Yingluk/Thaksin sacked him for political reasons and appointed a university academic who thought improving the quality of rice served on-board was the answer. Thai could do well to pay PTT and Amranand whatever it takes to get him back again.

"I read a few days ago, in The paper that must not be named, that THAI is about to appoint a foreign airline professional as vice-president of sales."

This is a good thing, you don't get much more international than an airline and senior staff should reflect this.

"Great, even smaller seats. I hate flying on TG for many reasons but small seats is the clincher"

I am 100% certain that Thai's planes are the same width as other airlines Boeings and Airbuses so the seats are not narrower, they also have a pitch equal to or in many cases 2" more than many others

Thai Airways is a great airline despite its senior management, I fly LHR-BKK-HKT return about 8-10 times a year in all classes depending on how extravagant I feel and how full the plane is and I have only once ever had one bad (lazy) crew in six years. The front line staff including are friendly and efficient, the London office provides exceptional service I have not experienced elsewhere. The food regularly wins awards, the planes are always clean and I am satisfied that the safety issues raised about Thailand do not involve Thai Airways. The loyalty scheme for regular flyers is unsurpassed elsewhere.

Yes, they need to stop employing useless ex-airforce people in senior positions and their equally inept children in the IT department. Plus put a stop to the free flights for TIPs and ex-exects which Amranand was in the process of doing. But they have great frontline staff, a modern fleet and a wonderful country as the base (politics and RTP excepted) so a return to profits just requires decent senior management.

If they are planning to pack more people onto the planes, they they will have to reduce seat width (or completely redesign cabin classes removing 1st class). On a flight to HK recently, I had to squash into the seat and basically sit on one buttock the whole way there (my height is 194cm @ 104kg so I am fairly sensitive about seat widths and leg room).

Great, even smaller seats. I hate flying on TG for many reasons but small seats is the clincher. I suppose the "strategy" is to send more flights to China and pack more of them onto the planes.

Clearly a case of supply and demand. Most people like the sight of a "virgin" beach, but if they are going to spend a day on it they usually enjoy having a few facilities - deck chairs, sunshades, food and drink, etc.

Looking at the picture, there seems to be plenty of room to spare for those individuals who would rather simply put down there own towel and barbecue themselves into a crisp.

Thailand used to be a freewheeling live and let live society. Now it appears to be morphing into a nasty little bureaucracy, with beach and street vendors bearing the brunt of officialdom. The result is a lot of people losing jobs and Thailand losing its essential charact

I never thought I would find myself yearning for the "good old days" after just a few years here, but I am.

I tend to agree but the problem is when they put too many out on the beach. There needs to be control of numbers so that the whole damn beach isn't covered in umbrellas. Assign vendors (perhaps by lottery) and give them a maximum number of chairs/umbrellas for the assigned space.

In any other sane country, the police would have arrived in force straight away and put a stop to all this, arrests, court etc .in any other sane country, it wouldn't have happened in the first place !

Are you joking? They have been paid to look the other way.

I'm not sure "refugee" is the correct term for these would be immigrants, In order to be considered a refugee (which has a very specific meaning under international law), asylum seekers must register and remain in the first safe country they enter. Seeing as how Switzerland is bordered all around by safe countries, I'm at a loss to understand what they are doing in Switzerland in the first place.

Its a game of "pass the hot potato" played by neighbouring countries.