Andrew Hicks

of a person who has a right of abode in the UK and* is on the same occasion seeking admission to the UK for the purposes of settlement.

*Not 'and,' it's 'or.' Persons who have a right of abode in the UK do not have to seek entry clearance to enter the UK.

See this thread.

Thanks 7by7.

Yes, you're right... it's OR not AND.

But if you go back to the wording of 281(1)(a), it allows for settlement only where the (British) spouse is present and settled in the UK.

It does not include the situation where the British spouse is settled abroad with the visa applicant but intends to travel back to settle in UK with her.

Any further thoughts?

Andrew

To simplify it, can I ask this question hypothetically.

A British husband and his Thai wife have been living together in Thailand for some years.

Wanting to go and live together in UK, they intend to apply for a settlement visa for her.

This appears to be covered by Immigration Rules, rule 281. However, this rule says that the wife must be seeking leave to enter as the spouse of a person present and settled in the UK etc or of a person who has a right of abode in the UK and is on the same occasion seeking admission to the UK for the purposes of settlement.

It is so convoluted that it's hard to understand... but it does not seem to include a Thai wife seeking entry and settlement as spouse of a British person who is not currently present and settled in the UK.

Is this a problem for the hypothetical couple or have I missed something?

Any help much appreciated.

Andrew Hicks

Indefinite leave to enter and indefinite leave to remain are to all intents and purposes the same; except ILE is applied for and granted outside the UK and ILR within the UK.

See this thread for more detail.

Both ILE and ILR are indefinite, not permanent. Both can, and will lapse, if it becomes apparent the holder is no longer resident in the UK, usually after an absence of 2 years or more. Citizenship, once granted, can't lapse; so all other things being equal it makes sense, I feel, to take the extra step of taking out British citizenship once qualified.

Both the UK and Thailand allow dual citizenship.

My grateful thanks, 7by7, for your advice and for referring me to your other thread.

All very helpful and clear (in so far as that i possible!).

Andrew

I have a feeling that if my Thai wife and I have been married for a certain length of time, instead of going for a settlement visa, she can immediately apply for indefinite leave to enter the UK.

What is this and does it in any way foreshorten or sustitute the progress to indefinite leave to remain?

And please forgive me... how long does it take to get ILR and does that mean she can remain indefinitely even if she does not go for or achieve citizenship? I need to understand the two alternatives, if such they are.

Many thanks,

Andrew

Swadee Ka,

I am wanting to get my Thai boyfriend of two years to England. I try to get him a family vist visa and was refused. Whats the next step of action I can take?

The reason why my boyfriend did not get his visa the first time:

The Entry Clearance Officer's reasons and supporting evidence:

You state in your application that you wish to visit your British sponsor, Miss Marilyflys3, in the United Kingdom for a period of 1 month. I am satisified as to Miss Marilynflys3 ability to maintain and accomodate you in the United Kingdom, however when assessing your application for a visa, the Immigration Rules requires me to be satisfied that you personally qualify. As such, the following weighs against the issue of entry clearance.

You are a first time visitor to the United Kingdom and yet you have failed to provide substantive evidence of your relationship with your sponsor. It is stated that you met one-another in March 2007 yet no evidence of this has been provided or to suggest you have known one-another over any reasonable period of time. I am therefore not satisifed you are genuinely seeking entry to the United Kingdom for the purpose/period sated.

To help put the nature of your intentions into context, it is important for you to provide evidence of your economic, professional and family circumstances in Thailand. You are a single person of working age, in modest employment with no assests, ties or property, which might encourage your presence in your country. I am not satisfied that your employment alone would encourage you to leave the United Kingdom following your claimed visit. Furthermore, the ability to take a period of such absence is not credible of someone genuinely employed. I am not satisfide, under these circumstances, that you are socially and aconomically well settled in your country. Accordingly, I am not satisfied that you intend to leave the United Kingdom at the end of the period of the visit, as stated by you.

I therefore refuse you application in accordance with immigration Rules.

and

My boyfriend and I tryed for this visa november last year. Since then we are still living together and would like to try again for his visa. However this time I would like to go back to England (I am from England btw) for at least two years. In that time I would like my boyfriend to work aswell as myself. So what is the best way to go about this? Marrage?

Really I just want to go home and take my boyfriend with me. So if anyone out there can help I would be very grateful to hear from you

Thankyou for reading,

Marilynflys3

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a poor Thai to enter the United Kingdom.

'You ain't got nuffin going for you in Thailand, mate, so we won't let you in just in case you don't come back,' say the reasons for refusal quoted above. 'We only let you in if you have "professional circumstances"!'

'The one thing you say you have is employment but we don't really believe you. And if you do, your boss wouldn't let you go for so long anyway.... so Catch 22. No visa!'

They are in effect refusing a visa on grounds that the applicant is poor. I do not think this represents the law... indeed The Independent Monitor for Entry Clearance in an annual report criticised the tendency to refuse visas to applicants from poor countries and the issue hit the British press in August 2006.

In my view the policy in Bangkok of demanding evidence of wealth and standing as evidenced in VFS's guidance information is discriminatory against poor applicants and is probably unlawful. I suggest that anyone who has been refused a visit visa on such grounds should, if they have rights of appeal, enter an appeal as a matter of principle.

The British Embassy, Bangkok suffers a higher than usual level of visa refusals overturned on appeal so you're in with a chance.

(I realise this does not apply to this OP.)

Andrew Hicks

.. got the same reply everyone else gets re. applications now taking "around 3 months". im convinced if you complain your hovercraft is full of jellied eels you'd get the same reply....

Further exeplification of the tick box mentality that now pervades the UKBA.

Additional "word on da street" has it that Bangkok was in line to receive two new ECOs, but they failed their exams. How on earth can such an exam be failed? Surely the questionpaper simply requires that the budding ECO is able to tick a sufficient number of boxes within a defined timeframe?

Do ECOs do an exam?

Once they have the job I understand they go on a three week training course. Since they're paying them, they might want them to repeat aspects of the course but can't exactly fail them. (Three weeks seems pretty short considering the byzantine complexity of Bitish immigration law and practice... which might explain a few things.)

When I last looked, the VFS website was giving contradictory info on settlement visas, saying in one place that applications take 4 to 6 weeks and at another that the delays have increased to 12 weeks.

Do they not realise how important it is to supply correct current information on this?

Andrewy

Sounds like a typical, conservative Thai girl to me. Find other ways to satisfy your ego if her not mentioning the relationship to other people bothers you; you'll both appreciate it in the long run (whether it works out or not).

Others on here may disagree, but I read the fact she doesn't want to share this with everybody as a reassuring indication of a good background. (Very similar to the now Mrs Insight )

(p.s. I was 24 when I first started dating Mrs Insight, and it wasn't that many years ago.)

It's quite right for her not to tell her family, just as maybe you shouldn't be bothering Thaivisa with it!

Why do we all reply?

Andrew

Why bring clothes and shoes from the UK? They are cheap and plentiful in Thailand. You will spend most of your time wearing flip-flops too.

Trainers are liable to make your feet rot with sweat in the 32+ Deg C heat.

Foodstuffs are available at more of a premium if you want 'Farang' type food.

I have taken more stuff back to the UK that I brought over initially.

Sort your favourite music onto some DVDs and think more about travelling light

The things I have failed to find and have thus brought back with me to Thailand are un-fitted top bed sheets and a bicycle pump (of the simple tubular type that clips onto the bike).

Otherwise, no problems!

Andrew

Is Thailand still advertising itself as a democracy? What a joke. But the idea that the cronies who run Thailand have anything to do with democratic rule has always been laughable.

Agreed, it isn't a real democracy here. However, surrendering to a red mob who want to install a latter day Thai Mussolini is another step in the wrong direction.

Leaving the issue of violent demostration out of it, a red shirt would say that Thaksin, the most popular politician in Thailand ever, was removed from office in a coup which was justified by extensive street protests by the yellow shirts and the resulting national instability.

Following the interim appointed military government's year in office, those representing Thaksin were again overwhelmingly voted into office but were not allowed to govern. The democratically elected PM was removed from office for wielding a spatula on TV, which could be called a bit of a stitch-up. There then followed an extraodinary shift in the balance of power when a pro-Thaksin faction crossed the floor to the Democrats who then headed a new coalition government.

If you were a red shirt. one of a huge majority of ordinary poor people who want a government that will have regards to its interests, would you not now be raging mad? Would you not want to demonstrate on the streets? Would you not feel that democracy had been denied to you and that doing what the yellow shorts did before you and doing it better is your only way out.

How sad that Thai politics has come down to a personality cult rather than a debate about contending issues. How ironic that the champion of the poor is one such as Thaksin. How sad that the politician with the strong democratic mandate is not Abhisit.

It's all so very, very sad.

If there's a lesson it's perhaps that (like regime change in Iraq), a coup achieves nothing except increasing strife.

Where can it all go from here?

Andrew

So is the end of, Hello Welcome? And could this be the beginning for the restricting of practises for beer bars and similar establishments that Thailand is famous for and could possibly cut the tourist trade down by another xxx%?

I'm all for ending the sex tourism industry, the kind of characters it attracts, both clients and providers, are harmful for Thai society.

But they can't end the sex tourism industry... it's too big a juggernaut and there are too many vested interests. Thaksin pursued a 'social order policy' for example aimed for example at zoning and closing hours but with the worldof commercial sex always lubricated by corrupt practice nothing much will happen and any new rules will gradually slip.

Nothing ever really changes.

Andrew

As explained to you in simple terms in a different thread, the type of visit visa and so the form used depends on the reason for the visit. Obviously, at least to most people, the applicant is in a far better position to judge the reason for their visit than anyone else.

As you have correctly been told, this is not a family visit as you and your wife are not visiting family.

If we fly together it's not a family visit they say. If I fly a month before or a day before then there is 'someone to visit' and thus logically a right of appeal as a 'family visit'.

No, it would not be a family visit as the family member concerned, you, would not be a UK resident.

Surely this must be a relatively common scenario and an Immigration Appeal Tribunal must have received an appeal on which it had to decide whether it had jurisdiction to hear the appeal. And if it refused, surely someone has appealed the point of law to a higher court.

The AIT would not have dealt with an appeal of a refusal which does not attract a right of appeal. Appeals to any other court, if any, would be referred to Article 8 as quoted above.

You may not like the current UK immigration rules, and I think we could all find something there which we didn't like, but they are what they are. If you wish to change them then you need to enlist the aide of a political party, hope that they win a general election so that they can form a government and change the law; or maybe stand for parliament yourself.

I really cannot see why you are making such a fuss over this. As the spouse of a British citizen resident in Thailand, visiting the UK in the company of said spouse it is extremely unlikely that she would be refused.

In fact I can think of only two possible reasons for a refusal in such a case:-

A poorly completed application where the necessary evidence has not been supplied.

The British spouse is living in Thailand illegally and so unlikely to return.

Surely neither of the above can possibly apply to you?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

We finally put in a general visit form and as it will be a fourth such visa. It was meticulously put together by an obsessive British lawyer lawfully retired in Thailand and so will only be refused if the Embassy is looking for any marginal reason to reject Thai women. It will take three weeks to process and not 3 to 5 days as is the boast on the VFS website.

Yes, perhaps an applicant travelling to visit UK with a British spouse does not fall within the terms of the right to appeal but this is suprising and the point is arguable. Normally where jurisdiction is an issue this is put to the court in question as a preliminary issue. An appeal would therefore be lodged and the Tribunal would decide whether or not there was a right of appeal in the case or refer it to a higher court for a determination.

What I'm saying is that I'm surprised if this issue has not alread been legally decided as it must be relatively common. One woud hope that the Embassy could tell us though as it is relevant when advising which form for applicants to fill in. The Family Visit form is intended for those having this right of appeal.

Andrew

Actually, it is a family visit since she is visiting her step children.

Get a grip!

Your grip on this is absolutely correct, though you don't know if she actually has any step children. Unfortunately my parents are dead and my daughter is serving in Afghanistan and is unable to supply the invitation letter etc.

My question to the Embassy was, 'Assuming there is no family in UK, and that the British husband who lives with the applicant Thai wife in Thailand will travel with her to UK, is this a 'family visit' with the right of appeal?'

I received no clear answer from them despite three emailed enquiries so we went to the British visa agency with both forms completed and asked them which one to submit. They said, 'whichever one you like', so I asked them to call the Embassy which they did.

The Embassy's answer was that we should submit the general visit form as 'there is no family there for her to visit'. (We are now waiting the three weeks for the visa application to be decided.)

This is a possible narrow interpretation of the right of appeal in the legislation. It has strange consequences though.

The right of appeal is to give substance to the universal human right to family life and perhaps also freedom of movement. It seems bizarre therefore that if a British man wishes to take his Thai wife to his own country she is unable to appeal a visa refusal. (Yet if she wants to visit her mother-in-law she can.)

Secondly there are many marginal situations. If we fly together it's not a family visit they say. If I fly a month before or a day before then there is 'someone to visit' and thus logically a right of appeal as a 'family visit'.

Crazy or what?

I am not sure that any of the headless chickens who run the show here really knows what they are talking about. Surely this must be a relatively common scenario and an Immigration Appeal Tribunal must have received an appeal on which it had to decide whether it had jurisdiction to hear the appeal. And if it refused, surely someone has appealed the point of law to a higher court.

I would like to have specific authority on this point and the Embassy should be able to supply authoritative information on which form to complete.

But does it matter?

Like hel_l it does!

Andrew

Where the Thai applicant married to a Brit lives in Thailand with him and wishes to travel to UK with him, is she visiting a member of her family there?

I don't know; the purpose of the visit is up to them.

If they are travelling to the UK because they want to climb to the top of the Blackpool tower then this would not be a family visit; nor if they were visiting to conduct business, obtain medical treatment etc.

If, however, they were travelling to the UK to visit the family of the British spouse then that would be a family visit.

VAT2.4 What is a family visitor?

Under the Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003, a family visitor is defined as:

1. the applicant's spouse, father, mother, son, daughter, grandfather, grandmother, grandson, granddaughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, nephew, niece or first cousin (NB: "first cousin" means, in relation to a person, the son or daughter of his uncle or aunt);
   
2. the father, mother, brother or sister of the applicant's spouse;
   
3. the spouse of the applicant's son or daughter;
   
4. the applicant's stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother or stepsister; or
   
5. a person with whom the applicant has lived as a member of an unmarried couple for at least two of the three years before the day on which his application for entry clearance was made.
   

In addition:

• Children adopted under an adoption order recognised in UK law are treated as if they are the natural children of the adoptive parents; and,
  
• The Immigration Appeals (Family Visitor) Regulations 2003 pre-date The Civil Partnership Act (2004). Civil partners are considered “a member of the applicant’s family” in the same way as a spouse for the purposes of the Family Visitor Regulations.
  

ECOs should not seek documentary evidence of a claimed relationship unless there are strong grounds to doubt it (such as a disparity in age that makes the relationship biologically unlikely).

Whatever the purpose of the visit it is extremely unlikely that someone applying as the spouse of a British citizen who is legally living in Thailand and will be travelling with the applicant would be refused.

Unless, of course, the British spouse was too arrogant or lazy to do a bit of research and provide the necessary documents to show that the criteria for the visa were met.

I have bothered to read the relevant regulations that determine the right of appeal and as a qualified solicitor of many years standing I am fully aware that the question I put raises a difficult point.

I did not get out of bed the wrong side today and am untroubled by someone who is being offensive but who in his position should know better.

What's the point of posting on Thaivisa if this is the sort of response one gets from a moderator.

It is quite clear, if one thinks a bit. It is the applicant's status and intentions that count, not the sponsor's.

If the applicant is visiting their family then they apply for a family visit, using form VAF1B.

If the applicant is visiting as a tourist then they apply for a general visa using form VAF1A.

And so on, using the appropriate form depending on the purpose of the applicant's visit.

It matters not that their sponsor is a British citizen and that they may be travelling with said sponsor.

However, if the applicant is the spouse or civil partner of their British citizen sponsor, or qualifies under the unmarried partners rules, and the main purpose of the visit is to visit the sponsor's family then this would be a family visit and they should use form VAF1B.

The visa issued, or refused, will be the one applied for. As some categories of visit visa attract a right of appeal and other's don't it is important to apply for the correct visa using the correct form.

Mr. Hicks, as far as I am aware, no one has edited your post in your other thread. I, however, edited a post I made in a rush and under the influence in response to the arrogant way you referred to VAC staff members.

BTW, the massive visa fees have nothing to do with the cost of providing the service. They have been increased to the current high levels by Labour as a cynical way of increasing revenue.

I'm not sure that you've actually read the Regulations underlying this question. If you had, you'd realise that there is an issue here.

Where the Thai applicant married to a Brit lives in Thailand with him and wishes to travel to UK with him, is she visiting a member of her family there? Not in ordinary English usage, nor I think in terms of the rules of statutory interpretation which is what this is all about.

I do appreciate that the whole visa thing can make people irritable.

Andrew

Knee jerk reaction to offensive term in OP deleted by 7by7

Offensive? Moi!

What about a reply to the thread?

Andrew

Currently working on the third visit to the UK with wife and boy. Just wasnt sure whether I should apply for a general visa or a 'family' visa as we will be visiting my parents whilst we are there. Are in laws classed as family or do they mean family by birth?

Cheers

I think this is the third recent thread on this topic. I have tried to get clarification from the Embassy but have not had a response to my email.

"Family' is defined on the back of the Family Visitor form. It includes your parents and siblings but not children.

My parents are dead so in going to UK together we are going to visit my adult children. Living together in Thailand travelling together to UK, is my Thai wife visiting me and should she complete the Family Visitor form and thus get a right of appeal?

You would think so but there's no way to find out.

Kafka springs to mind or is it just sheer British incompetence caused by excessive complexity. Why have different form anyway?

Andrew

Andrew

Sorry, but I would the Thai Girl novel VERY LOW by literary standards. What a shameless plug!

I did read it so I know what I am talking about. Probably the most poorly written novel I have read in years.

Hey, Jingthing, you're a meanie. Loads of people really love "Thai Girl"!

Oh well, can't please all of the readers all of the time and I admit that I too am often disappointed with a novel that's a top seller with a strong reputation.

It can be a matter of personal choice. Witness the above disagreements over Jake Needham's books which for me at least are weak stories, though snappily written.

Flamers lurk on Thaivisa though and last time someone came to rescue "Thai Girl", saying the following,

"The real heart and soul of this book lies in the character of Fon (the 'Thai girl'). Beautifully observed and drawn, a striking metaphor for Thai culture itself, it is through her that Hicks adeptly explores the central theme of most books of this genre: the difficulty, frustration, pain and, perhaps ultimately, the futility of the foreigner trying to come to terms with the mercurial nature of Thailand. It is to his credit - and I believe displays and reflects the respect he has for this country - that he chose not to use the hackneyed milieu of the Bangkok bar scene as a vehicle to achieve this."

He said I had 'a natural gift for narrative' and 'a raw talent for story telling'. Wow!

Now Jingthing's brought me down to earth again.

Anyway "Thai Girl's" still selling well and has just been reprinted yet again. And last year it made more profit than General Motors and Chrysler combined, money which incidentally is covenated for the relief of poverty in a certain small village in Isaan.

Yes, I can almost guarantee that you'll love my "Thai Girl" if you give it half chance!

And it's being translated into Danish and I've sold the movie option. Wait for it!

Andrew Hicks

cut the shit, while the book was merely awful, your convivial self promotion is nauseating.

I read your book with a group of friends while on holiday and it was a source of great derision. your dialogue was trite and your treatment of koh phanngan indicates that you have likely never been there, nor do you have the slightest understanding of the backpaker culture.

if you are indeed as successful as you claim, congratualations, now please piss off and enjoy the spoils, no need to promote yourself here.

changed defend to promote

So you've read "Thai Girl" have you?

In fact I've only been to Koh Pha Ngan once... but "Thai Girl" isn't set there but on Koh Samet and Koh Chang.

Perhaps I should get friends to post a mention of my books next time and then I won't offend you!

Love and kisses,

Andrew

PS Enough said for now. I fear this has hijacked the wider purpose of the thread.

, I must say that Thai Girl is one of the worst novels I have ever read, about any subject. But I am no literary critic.

Most texts of the "quality" of Thai Girl are never published or self printed. I suppose it might be a good read for those seeking an example of very bad writing. BTW, I don't know the history of Thai Girl but there is a germ of a story there (maybe a short story). It didn't read like it was exposed to a good (or any) EDITOR.

Thai Girl was, I believe, self published and self edited, by the author. Vanity press printings. It may have sold a few thousand copies on the basis of it's title alone. Most readers were disappointed.

Cult classic my foot.

Not a slur on you andrew, but you simply can not call Thai Girl a cult Classic.

I did not call "Thai Girl" a cult classic. Another author did. (Probably wrongly but she did!)

"Thai Girl" is published by Monsoon Books in Singapore and is currently being reprinted for a seventh time. The rules of Thaivisa prevent me from mentioning where a Readers Forum of unsolicited criticism of the book can be found.

Towards the end of the book there is a chapter where the characters sit on the beach and slag off George Bush and Anglo-American foreign policy. Some Americans have interpreted this as being anti-American and therefore slag me off in return.

I am British and am neither anti-British nor Anti-American. In fact your most sincere friends can sometime be the most positive critics. I have written about this at length on my blog so will not bore you again here.

Finally, I say Long Live America. Most of my friends are Americas and are among my most avid readers.

Andrew

PS Confucius he say, 'He who takes himself too seriously craps in his own pants.'

I'm now going to read the rest of the thread.

You're just looking forward to the Brit bashing.

I hadn't realized. I'll get right on it.

So you love Brit bashing eh?

Despite that I'll take your criticism of "Thai Girl" on the nose though because the book has genuinely become hugely popular, even being described as a cult novel by one author and your individual view will not dent that.

But I agree with Ulysses G's comment a couple of posts up about how strange it is that opinions of books on Thaivisa swing so wildly between extremes.

Perhaps that's the consequence of the convention of anonymity which allows members to kick shit everywhere... which at least makes the forum colourfulI suppose.

Nonetheless different people will have different views of the same book and that's accepted by every author.

One man's meat etc! And it only needs a minority to like it to make it a bestseller.

For me the key to a novel is in the storytelling.

In my personal view John Burdett and Jake Needham are snappy writers but poor storytellers. Steve Leather is, he tells me, deliberately a plain writer but I think he's a great storyteller. I've read a lot of his UK based thrillers, not a genre I'd usually read, but I've found them totally gripping.

"I couldn't put it down," he said of "Thai Girl" (see inside the front dust jacket) and surely that's the key ingredient to a good read.

Andrew

PS Is it in poor taste to have a humble author on the forum discussing books?

Can you show you've been living together for at least 2 years? If so your partner's a family member.

Use VAF1B.

As i said in the OP, we have lived together more than 2 years. However the 1B form is as clear as mud when the family member is travelling with the applicant, instead of the applicant visiting a family member in the UK.

I agree that the Family Visitor issue is as clear as mud.

The back of the form has the definition of 'member of the applicant's family' as defined by the 2003 Regulations and yes, it includes someone you have lived with for two years in the tree years before applying for the visa.

I have posted a similar thread to yours and have had no answers. (Did I really say something offensive that needed editing?)

The history is that I emailed [email protected] saying I was travelling to UK as husband with my Thai wife. Was she threfore visiting me and should I fill in the Family Visitor form? They replied I should use that form if I was visiting family as defined.

Thanks a million for that!

I've now redefined the enquiry but have had no reply from them.

I started filling in the General Visitor form but on getting to the bit about who I knew in UK, it said that if I was visiting family then I should use the Family Visitor form. As I am visiting family I've now filled that in instead.

What hangs on the distinction is that under the NIA Act 2002, s.90 there is a right of appeal if the application was for the purpose of visiting a member of the family. Hence the different form.. but the form assumes that the applicant is resident in Thailand and the visitee is resident in UK.

British bureaucracy is totally crass. That's what happens when they make the forms too complex. Confusion.

The appeal hangs on whether you are in fact visiting family and no on which form you happen to fill in, so it shouldn't matter one bit.

The forms are almost the same and there's little difference in substance so if you have a good case for a visa they shouldn't knock you back just because they think you used the wrong form.

A visa applicant travelling with a spouse should have as much right to an appeal as where the spouse is in the UK. Do they dare to say that if we travel together we have no right of appeal but if I go a week early and she follows me then she is going to visit me and an appeal is available? That would be crazy!

Essentially s.90 does not address the question of whether an applicant travelling with spouse to UK has a right of appeal or not. It depends whether the appeal right in the section is to be construed restrictively or not.

What a mess and it's impossible to get any guidance. What do we pay the massive visa fees for?

Esentially if you fill in the Family form you are claiming a right of appeal so it might be easier to fill the General form.

Andrew

Sorry, but I would the Thai Girl novel VERY LOW by literary standards. What a shameless plug!

I did read it so I know what I am talking about. Probably the most poorly written novel I have read in years.

Hey, Jingthing, you're a meanie. Loads of people really love "Thai Girl"!

Oh well, can't please all of the readers all of the time and I admit that I too am often disappointed with a novel that's a top seller with a strong reputation.

It can be a matter of personal choice. Witness the above disagreements over Jake Needham's books which for me at least are weak stories, though snappily written.

Flamers lurk on Thaivisa though and last time someone came to rescue "Thai Girl", saying the following,

"The real heart and soul of this book lies in the character of Fon (the 'Thai girl'). Beautifully observed and drawn, a striking metaphor for Thai culture itself, it is through her that Hicks adeptly explores the central theme of most books of this genre: the difficulty, frustration, pain and, perhaps ultimately, the futility of the foreigner trying to come to terms with the mercurial nature of Thailand. It is to his credit - and I believe displays and reflects the respect he has for this country - that he chose not to use the hackneyed milieu of the Bangkok bar scene as a vehicle to achieve this."

He said I had 'a natural gift for narrative' and 'a raw talent for story telling'. Wow!

Now Jingthing's brought me down to earth again.

Anyway "Thai Girl's" still selling well and has just been reprinted yet again. And last year it made more profit than General Motors and Chrysler combined, money which incidentally is covenated for the relief of poverty in a certain small village in Isaan.

Yes, I can almost guarantee that you'll love my "Thai Girl" if you give it half chance!

And it's being translated into Danish and I've sold the movie option. Wait for it!

Andrew Hicks

I live in Thailand with my Thai wife. We plan to visit my adult children in England together.

I assumed we would complete a Family Visit form and not the General Visitor form but when I looked at it, all the questions in Part 8 assume that the Thai applicant lives in Thailand and the family member to be visited lives in UK. The notes do not list my children as being family members under the regulations, so I am the only family member my wife can visit.

But I live with her in Thailand. She is not travelling to visit me in UK but is travelling to UK to visit with me.

I emailed [email protected] and was told that she uses the Family Visitor form if she is visiting family as strictly defined. This was of no help therefore. I repeated the query and have not had a reply.

So my questions are,

1. Has anyone in similar circumstances used the Family Visa form to travel with the applicnt to UK on the basis that she is 'visiting' with you?

2. What difference does it make if it is a family visit as opposed to a general visit? (In answer to this question, the boy at VFS said that completing the Family Visit form would confera right of appeal. Surely this cannot be right though. It must be marriage that confers the right of appeal, not which wretched piece of paper you happen to fill in and sign.)

3. Has the world gone completely mad?

Many thanks,

Andrew Hicks

The Bangkok Post has been running a series of articles about Thai visa issues, the latest on retirement visas. By Chavalit Finch and Partners who are lawyers, they seem to be clear and useful.

A few points that they mention are of interest and I wonder what is the experience of other Thai visa geezers.

1. They of course mention the 800,000 baht deposit requirement. Is this still available if you haven't gone this route before? I thought it had been closed off if you haven't used it before.

2. They mention that you must prove that the deposit money has been remitted from outside Thailand. Of the many times I have been given a year's, this point has only been raised once and that was in Bangkok. How universal is this requirement? (I'm in some difficulty as my money was remitted to HSBC in Bangkok in sterling and then converted to baht and deposited with Kasikorn. Kasikorn do not presumably now where it came from so cannot certify that it was based on an inward remittance. Would an imigration officer understand if I submitted the British bank's outward transfer documentation? Probably not.)

3. The article says that if you deposit is too small you can add monthly income times twelve. Does using this formula of (income X 12 plus deposit exceeds 800,000) present any difficulties in practice?

4. It mentions that you need a police certificate from home and a medical certificate. I'm sure this is correct but I have never had to produce them.

5. Earlier articles were about the requirement for 90 day reporting that you are still in the country. A friend told me you can now only do the notification in the office for the district in which the notified address is situated. Is this correct? Can you still mail your passport to Bangkok? Will the Bangkok 90 Day office at Suan Plu now only accept notifications of addresses in Bangkok? This is important to me as I shall be in Bangkok and not at home the next time I have to report.

I'd very much appreciate your comments.

Many thanks,

Andrew Hicks

Forgot to put in my Best Novels, and not asked for, but WORST novel I've ever read, actually never got past first few chapters was something from someone called Jake Needham.

Good old Trink also rubbished it.

The Big Mango?

I actually finished it, god knows why. Some of the most self indulgent crap that I have ever had the misfortune to actually buy.

Yes, I agree. The idea for the "Big Mango" story is quite a good one but it's full of cardboard cutouts and I can't even remember the ending.

As for Reynolds' 'Lady of Bangkok', you can't get hold of it because it's out of print. They all say it's worth reading though.

The OP asked for some good books so we haven't done him very well. Perhaps controversially therefore, may I mention a possible novel which isn't about a girl from a whorehouse. It's about a serious family orientated Thai girl who isn't interested in her farang suitor or his money? (Yeah, okay, it is fiction!)

And it is in print and widely available because it's just about to go to a seventh printing.

It's called "Thai Girl".

Described by an Australian novelist who's just been let out of a Thai jail as, 'The definitive novel about relationships between foreigners and Thais", you could say that it's Romeo and Juliet without the coffins.

It's not for me to praise it because I wrote it, but I do hope it's bang up the OP's street.

A book I love is "Letters From Thailand" by Botan, translated by Susan Fulop, though it's about the integration of a Chinese immigrant family into Bangkok life, so really it isn't up the OP's street. Otherwise I'm struggling!

Andrew Hicks

I broke mine in two places when I was in my twenties.

(Actually, I didn't break it - someone did it for me!)

Symphathise with you being wired up. Liquidised food

for 30 days. I had it over Christmas! No fun. And you

don't half lose a lot of weight.

Reason for replying to you: Be careful once the wires

are removed as your jaw will take about a year to knit

fully and you want to make sure you don't 'take' one on

the chin and end up being a ventriloquist again!

They're due to unsew my mouth and let me out on Sunday which is only a month from the accident. I thought bones took longer to mend than this, but thanks for the advice. I shall take it carefully and back off the tamarind seeds and muay Thai for a bit.

I can't provoke any arguments with Cat at the moment because I can't talk anyway. When I can, that could be a danger point!

Yes, it's hel_l, isn't it beig Hannibal Lecterised! The inside of my mouth is just so sore.

Andrew