stub

Stub, I understand your argument that Windows might not be the dominating system in the future and SOME students might not even need to be taught how to use it, but do you seriously think this remote chance warrants spending over a billion dollars NOW, just to be prepared?

Min Ed is not in some kind of drive to end Windows domination, it shouldn't be their concern at all. They need to prepare people to enter the work market armed with essential skills, not to plot the revolution, students are not soldiers or guinea pigs.

Besides, this notebook is so far behind the curve specification wise that it won't be able to run even basic things like Open Office applications that generally duplicate Word, Excel etc.

Nor will it teach general Windows maintenance and safety procedures - very essential skills, imo.

There ARE other alternatives, as you mentioned, market driven, technology driven, user driven solutions, not politically driven.

When you are talking education, you need to be targeting the world you foresee in several years. If you target the current environment you will be three years behind the curve for your university students or up to 10 years for your primary school students. Then there is the lead time of the project, and the lifetime of the project (you don't want to change directions every year, that is economically inviable). So if you want the *next* generation of primary school kids to be as familiar with their computers as they are with their TV you really want to be thinking about where things will be in 15 years time. Windows maintenance will be utterly useless to this generation unless they are using Windows based machines (and then only for a few years until these procedures change, well before they hit the job market). Same goes for Linux maintenance for that matter. 15 years is a long time, so learning about particular applications or operating systems is pointless. Learning about the overarching metaphors and ideas that we expect to remain somewhat familiar will last a lifetime, but more importantly, learning how to learn is the key. The people considered 'good with computers' are the ones who can sit down in front of an unfamiliar system and make it do stuff. The good computer science courses don't teach C or Cobol or Java or Oracle or C++ or C#; they teach programming and algorithms and data structures and security and design and methodology with just enough 'real life' IT skills to get them started in a career. Its also why sitting down at a computer or just watching is a great way of learning - if you rote learn (click here, press Alt-F1, hit enter...) your 'skills' will be out of date next year, or maybe next week. Learning that modern systems are designed to be discoverable, and learning how to make use of that discoverability is key. Do you read the error message if you get a problem and try to understand it, or do you blank out and call over 'the computer guy' because 'I don't understand computers'?

Also, when you are dealing with these time frames you are changing the future. If Thailand decides to distribute a million ASUS EEE boxes running Windows (there is a good change Microsoft will offer the OS and updates for free), they are actually setting the course for what IT will look like in this country in 15 years time. Same if Thailand decides to go with a Linux or OSX or OS/2 based solution. Universities switched from cobol to C or VB to C++ or Java well before industry switched, and those changes caused industry to change - the universities not only forsaw what they thought their students would need, but also generated that need through the act of changing. Your stuffed if your business needs graduates with cobol skills and you can no longer get graduates with cobol skills, so you better start adapting now.

This is why it is the governments responsibility to set the direction. If they don't, someone else will and it will be for *their* benefit and not Thailand's. Now the WTO and improved anti-piracy systems are applying pressure to be legitimate, governments see how much that 10% of the cost of each PC adds up to for a genuine windows system over the decades. They also see this huge bill can be reduced by taking another path, while still remaining competative and meeting their political responsibilities. Politics is already involved, because it is the politicians who have to decide to enforce using licensed software or not. You don't decide to do this with the negative impact this has on local business without going further and trying to alleviate this impact. The WTO has been one of the major drivers of Open Source adoption - it made the governments get involved. Stamp out piracy or become a pariah. The only economically viable method of stamping out the piracy in many countries is to use free software.

This snowballing happens elsewhere too. Did you know that major PC manufacturers like Dell and Asus are shipping systems with Linux preinstalled rather than Windows? They are doing this because there are large Linux based rollouts happening (governments, ministries, school districts, entire educational infrastructures). If you are a PC component manufacturer like ATI or Broadcom or any of the other zillions, it means you need to be Linux compatible or you are losing this growing market share. Or your entire market share, as to keep margins down the PC manufacturers need to deal with as few different components as possible, and it is an obvious choice between a component that supports both linux and windows or the component that just supports windows. It also means new opportunities and new ways to outbid your competition - offering freely distributable Open Source drivers rather than unmaintainable binary blobs for instance. And all these computers still need support, which needs people with the skills to do that support...

Oops... I'm rambling.

Not to mention the fact that these computers are incompatible with Windows systems that prevail in this country. Students will need to be trained again to be able to use their friends/neighbours/school/work computers, using Min Ed's usual computer related programs. Back to square one.

Why not teach them to use Windows from the start?

Because many people don't want a world where $US100 of the cost of every computer is going to a single corporation in the US for no real benefit. The only reason most of the computers are running Windows here is that it is 'free' and the default, it is what people are familiar with, and it is what other people do (talking the majority of work computers here - not the people who actually need the features of modern Windows or OSX). The first is changing already, as Microsoft is having more success blocking pirated users from updates and the virus, spyware writers making this a major problem (even application authors make it a problem - when the apps land that require XP service pack 3 or Vista service pack 1 plenty of people are going to have to cough up money). The second and third are simply a matter of exposing a new generation to alternatives so they learn to use 'a computer' rather than 'windows' or 'office' (learn the concepts and metaphor rather than hot keys and application specific formulas and you can drive any modern system from Windows to Linux to Tivo).

That $100 is becoming a real problem now devices like the XO and the low cost palm tops like the Asus EEE hiting the market - the price point has been set so low commercial operating systems have been pushed out of the market already. The commercial vendors will either need to ignore this and concentrate on the high end laptops and desktops, and become 'boutique' as costs come down and more and the high end becomes low end, or try and retain their markete share by maintaining those platforms at a loss which is not viable in the long term.

Its changing right now. Hardware vendors are offering cheaper systems without the Windows license. OSX and Linux are increasing market share. Tendors for large deployments are being won by linux system integrators. The schools and universities are switching or have switched. Mainland Europe and South America has been won. Asia will be won once Windows isn't 'free'. Africa will be won as their systems will be Open Source from day one. Open Source is hip and people holding the purse strings are realizing it does what they actually need, rather than what they are being told they need.

Wolfie, simply use one of your Cough Cough back up XP CD's. Once it is installed go to windows update site and dowload the windows genuine advantage tool. Use hte option to check if your copy is legal and if by chance it is a copy then use the resolve now option. You pay MS direct so cutting out the middle man and they give you a product key via email and send you a CD by post. Safe and easy.

Does this work with Vista ?

You can buy genuine copies of Vista and XP at Fortune at a couple of stores - saw it at Software Park and in the big IT store on the top floor (the one with all the name brand stuff, laptops, printers, scanners, desktops, mice - superstore I guess). Vista Starter Edition (the minimal version only available in countries where piracy is endemic) for just under 1800 baht. Didn't see an XP starter edition though, so the cheapest is one of the home editions at about 3700 baht. These are the OEM editions so will non-transferable to a new computer once activated.

How do these prices compare to the 'Windows Genuine Advantage' approach? I'll be needing to install and activate soon.

I doubt Miami will be going for a few years, and I dont see what they have to do with people peeing in the street anyway. There has been no work done on the opposite building for at least 5 months so I wouldnt get your hopes up about that either.

People are going to keep pissing there until building guards stop them, or the area is made unattractive for doing so such as brighter lighting. It is in the power of the Miami management to stop it just like it will be in the power of the management of the opposite building, and it might not even cost a cent given there is already likely a bored guard inside who could be asked to earn his keep by telling people to sod off and pay 5 baht at the Internet Cafe to use the toilets. Instead, you have a dark patch with poles to lean against and debris to crouch behind.

(I wonder if you would turn more profit if you shut down one of the tailors shops and converted it to a 5 baht pay-for-use toilet block? I would suggest Trendy but it is too far down the soi and all that glass frontage would be more suitable for a pay-per-view hong nam rather than pay-for use...)

Are you serious Stub?

I drove past last night and there are beer bar girls sitting outside looking for customers. I can't imagine anyone would choose to have this type of bar outside their front door as opposed to a restaurant,coffe shop.flower shop and dry cleaners! There is a place for Beer bars but its not outside where i live! The management should be shot for allowing this to happen - just shows you how incompetent they are. I feel very sorry for anybody who has bought here.

Yes, I'm serious. Why would anyone who doesn't want a bar outside where they live buy in lower Sukhumvit? It is a red light district. You don't have to go far away for this to change, the rents and prices become cheaper, closer to schools and better role models for your kids than bargirls and sex tourists.

If noone has opened a fish bowl in that building it is only because they can't get the necessary license. Trendy Condo is slap bang dead centre of one of the largest red light districts in Thailand and possibly the world. Management probably should be shot though - all that glass frontage seems geared to retail rather than bars and restaurants and I think these will be the only groups prepared to pay the prices commanded by this area for this sort of location.

The actual songkran in tourist areas has as much to do with thai traditions as Christmas IMHO. Completely built up by foreign tourists.

Why don't do it at home so we can enjoy the pure authentic traditions here ?

Nah - nothing to do with tourists. The higher the concentration of young people and alcohol the wilder it gets. Its just the tourist areas tend to have high concentrations of both. The most fun is the party areas with few farang - everyone is there to have fun, so when you get ice water down your back you should take it with humor as intended.

yes, that particular stretch is still sleazy, but if you take a longer term view, things are a bit brighter....when the flanking upscale 35 story "Regent Hotel" and the upscale 33 story "Sofitel Sukhumvit Hotel" finally finish and open, that Soi 13 corner will clean-up ALOT, but will still keep the funky in-the-middle-of-things surrounds....the B500 millon renovations at the mid-level "Ambassador Hotel" will also help the cause...

yeah things are really looking up, what with the beer bars going into the trendy retail space downstairs.

corrected typos

yeah two pretty sedate bars with pool tables have come in, but is that a big surprise or bad news in that area? what were you expecting or wanting? Ferragamo and Bulgari boutiques at the Nana zone?

I think the soi will remain a cesspool until the Miami hotel is gone, or at least takes a bit of pride and stops people using is as the Nana public lavatory. It reeks if it hasn't rained in the last day. Hopefully the ajacent building going up on the corner will have a soi 13 entrance and deal with the problem, or at least wash away the shit and vomit.

For this area, bars on your doorstop are a drawcard rather than a turnoff. It might not be Walking Street, but lower Sukhumvit isn't exactly what you would call a 'family friendly zone' and pushing nightlife out to ajacent sois is an excercise in futility. If this changes, it will change naturally and on the edges first rather than slap bang in the middle between Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy.

I think a fair rate would be 16-18k per month fully furnished with UBC. They are a little smaller than the corresponding units down the road and probably crappier view, but are new and a few minutes closer to the skytrain.

14-15K, more likely.

Brand new 35sqm studios, BTS, walking distance to BKK Uni go that kind of money, furnished with "SB" furniture.

Wrong again think to much

Try doubling your estimate...Here's two examples of current rent at Trendy.

THB23000 New Trendy Condo for rent,Sukhumvit 13 Studio 37 Sqm

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/apa/530972287.html

THB49000 / 1br - The Trendy Condominium for Rent 1 bed 64 Sqm

http://bangkok.craigslist.co.th/apa/577733651.html

Those are really, really inflated prices. Two minutes walk down soi 13 to Sukhumvit Suites and you can get a 60sqm fully furnished apartment on the 39 floor with a fantastic view for 23k. Granted they don't last long - three came and went in January. 35k gets you 72 Sqm with a balcony. 21million you can buy the penthouse on the 44th floor (been up for sale a few months now - I guess people who want penthouses only want them in brand new buildings).

Even if brand new and two minutes further walking really commands a 70% price hike, be prepared for the drop when it isn't brand new any more.

If you are thinking about long term property investment in Bangkok, you need to decide if you believe in global warming or not. It won't take much of a sea level rise for Bangkok property to go through the floor (and floating down the klong out to sea). And from an investment point of view it might be shorter term than you think - it all depends on if or when property investors decide it is inevitable or not rather than if or when it actually happens.

Buying these computers is a waste of time if the childrens' teachers are not computer-savvy and able to educate the kids how to use the equipment and useful software, such as spreadsheets, databases etc. I bet these kids will just play computer games... The first priority is to train the teachers.

There are about *two generations* of us in the west who taught ourselves how to use computers. Its now even easier given the literature that is now available on the topic, the help available on the Internet and the fact the systems are now designed to be discoverable and usable. Find a 30s something who has been working in the industry for 10 years and ask them how they learned. Almost certainly started playing games and moved on from there, teaching a teacher or two on the way how the new fangled things worked. Give a bright kid the resources and they will be happy to help their friends.

And maybe some of these kids will become the resources needed to revitalize the Thai education system as teachers or employers or lawmakers.

I currently have a 30 day Visa On Arrival, aka Visa Exempt Stamp, which runs out a week or so before my birthday. Can I borderrun for another VOA and convert this to a non-im O retirement in Thailand on my birthday, or do I have to travel to a consulate (Penang is closest) to get a Tourist Visa, which I believe can be converted by immigration?

...

Whilst I'm thinking about this, do the immigration officers at the border crossings have the authority to issue non-im O visas and annual extensions?

One thing you have to be very clear on: a 30 day entry permit is not a visa on arrival. They are different things with different rules. Visa on arrival is only available to a few countries that don't participate in the 30 day entry permit scheme, and I think is usually only valid for 15 days or so.

This is important to know because you cannot convert an entry permit to a visa. You can only convert a visa to a visa. So you need to get yourself a tourist visa outside of Thailand and do the conversion in Thailand, or just get the desired visa outside of Thailand if that happens to be available where you are heading.

Officers at border crossings don't have the authority to issue visas - you get visas outside of the country and they are inside the country. No idea about extensions.

Hi.

I'm currently staying in Thailand on one year type-O visas, but also qualify for an APEC Business Travel Card. I don't work in Thailand so don't need a work permit and do not qualify for a B visa.

Can anyone speaking from experience confirm there are no problems for someone resident in Thailand using the 90 day entry this card grants? I'm mainly concerned about Thai immigration getting shirty or refusing entry on a border run if I have been staying in Thailand for 9+ months with only occasional short trips OS. The other threads I've seen on this didn't seem to address this particular topic.

I have to make at two trips per year for work (generally to the UK or USA) lasting 2-3 weeks, and 2-3 day-or-weekend trips per year. Last year on my type O I had to make one border run when the numbers didn't run out to avoid a 1 week overstay.

Does anyone know if the land borders know and understand about this card?

Anyone think of advantages or disadvantages to switching from O visas to the APEC card? I know it works out quite a bit cheaper for me and get to queue jump at airports.

Anyone got maps or directions to the celebrations for the geographically challenged amongst us? The only Aree Sampan I can find is nowhere near water...

Gonna upgrade to Gutsy Gibbon today. Wonder when they'll stop trying to be cute with the silly names?<br />

Feel free to upgrade to Ubuntu 7.10 instead. You can have Ubuntu with or without silly names.

Stub I see your points. But I also see the points of people who think there could be a better way to feed and look after the Tigers that have been put in the care of the Temple.

You support them and clearly WWFT and Lonely Planet does not. Maybe with all the bad press and visiting Animal activist the Abbot is re-thinking the way the cats have been treated in the past and is making big steps to change things.

There isn't one animal welfare group that I can find that is supporting them only tourists and tour agencies.

As I said before, I know Edwin and I spent 3 weeks at WWFT. There is to no reason for him to make up some story and report that the Tigers are being mistreated.

They don't have to be lead on leashes to get money to help support them. They are Wild Animals, even if they are not living in the Wild. It's opinion and a lot of the opinion out there is that there is a lot of money being made and not all of it is being spent on the Tigers.

I've looked around and I haven't found any groups that support them, so..............

Edwin didn't report that the tigers are being mistreated. He reported that there are reports that the tigers are being mistreated. This is just rumor. Perhaps he knew abuse to be a fact and couldn't report it as such due to Thailand's strict libel laws, or perhaps this is just a straight retelling - there is no evidence but he has heard reports. There are many many cases, such as the Bermuda Triangle and the Priory of Sion theories, believed by huge numbers of people and with huge bodies of 'evidence' but when it is all traced through to the real source material turns out to be based on proven lies or rather liberal interpretations of the truth. If people don't bother to fact check or are unable to do so, particularly groups in positions of power like Lonely Planet or WFFT, they may end up doing harm. Perhaps Lonely Planet should be publicizing the Tiger Temple to help raise funds for the good guys whilst simultaneously hurting the bad guys? They seem to do this for the elephant conservation centre south of Chiang Mai. I have no idea if their silence on the tigers is based on evidence or rumor. The negative opinions I've seen seem to be built on very shaky foundations indeed. They also all seem to all be at least two years old.

I haven't seen proposals from people who think there is a better way of dealing with the orphans, so can't see how practical they are or if the Temple was right to ignore them (or if the Temple has actually taken these opinions on board).

You are quite correct about not all of the money being spent on the Tigers, as can be found on the Temple's web site under local news. The temple seems to be operating like any other similar temple - it is just that this one happens to have a sizable population of an endangered species along with the usual herd of farm animals and assorted wildlife they accumulate. An argument could be made that this is deceptive as people expect their sizable entry donation to be going 100% to the temples. I would estimate the yearly income at 30 million Baht at current attendance levels (guessing about 100 people per day every day at 300 Baht per head, and a guestimate of 500 Baht extra donations per head), so the 1 million sum mentioned in the article I'm guessing is 3-4% of last years total revenue. I have no idea if this is a requirement of temple politics, a genuine gesture or respect and trust that the funds are well used, or what. If these figures are reasonable, it does indicate that the temple has reached its funding goals already (despite lower attendance levels in earlier years and lower fees pre 2005), and further evidence of this is that when I was there earlier this year the new facilities where scheduled for completion (this year I think).

I fully understand wildlife conservation and welfare groups not offering support to the Temple - it isn't the sort of conservation they would want to endorse. I hope planned completion of the new facilities goes to schedule and the temple is able to transform itself into the sort of facility that these groups can endorse, becoming a rehabilitation and breeding centre with good conditions and animals being released back into the wild and gaining enough political power to help curtail the poaching industry in the area. It may depend if groups consider the existing temple reared and domesticated tigers in the same way they consider the domesticated elephants, as the hand reared tigers will almost certainly continue to be used to help raise funds to keep the Temple operational and excess going to non-related expenses.

I've found a particularly interesting quote on the Temple's own website, from a few years ago given there where only seven tigers there at the time:

DE GUZMAN: A forest temple in Kanchanaburi province, about 100 miles west from the capital city of Bangkok. According to Buddhist tradition, temple grounds are sacred and it's a sin to harm animals living around monasteries. For this reason this temple has become a refuge for tiger cubs rescued from poachers working along the Thai-Burmese border.

DE GUZMAN: This two-year-old male tiger, Pai Yo, was rescued by Thai border police a year and a half ago. Pai Yo lives with seven other tigers at this temple.

DE GUZMAN: They're kept in cages no larger than a one-car garage. All the tigers here have become domesticated, relying on the monks for food and daily walks around the temple. Luang Ta Jan, the abbot of this temple, says it's becoming difficult to take care of the cubs especially now that they're getting bigger.

[TA JAN SPEAKING THAI] VOICEOVER: Some of the villagers around here are poachers, and sometimes they will bring the tiger cubs to us after they have shot and killed its parents. The poachers believe that by giving us the cubs to take care of they will be forgiven of their sins. These tigers won't be the last to come here. As long as the poaching continues, we will have more and more tiger cubs ending up at our temple.

If a group can progress from this situation to a genuine coservation and rehabilitation centre in a few short years (first tiger arrived 1999, serious fundraising efforts started in 2005), they will have done better than most. I hope the facilities go to plan, the Temple are successful in finding a volunteer vet (or free up some of those funds to employ professionals!), and their efforts be genuine and uncorrupted.

Stub, you don't get it. WFFT does not think the Tigers should be forced to get their pictures taken for the sake of money and to entertain tourist. They are not suggesting that the Tigers should be doped up and put on leases.

They are not house pets! They are Wild Animals who were taken out of the wild and put into cages. Some of the Tigers were born there, but the rest were pouched from the Wild.

I'm not saying that the Abbot pouched them, but I think forcing them to sit with Tourist for pictures is wrong.

As for WFFT's website, they do make mention of The Tiger Temple. It is on the News Page under the campaign to stop the use of wildlife in tourism.

If any of you feel that purposely not feeding an animal a proper diet isn't abuse clearly needs to study up on the diseases and suffering caused by malnutrition.

I think I do get it.

• The tigers where not poached from the wild - they arrived as orphans. Poaching would have been the cause, and without the tiger temple the cubs would be dead of starvation or sold with their parents corpses, or possibly sold into a tourist show.
  
• I would hesitate to call them wild animals. They are raised in captivity.
  
• The monks are trying to build facilities to look after the animals properly and in future raise orphans and the temple bred tigers in such a way as they can be released back into the wild. I doubt the monks think the tourist photo thing or raising the tigers in captivity is good either - it is a means to an end.
  
• There is no mention of the Tiger Temple on http://www.wfft.org/news.htm, I now have found a very brief mention on http://www.wfft.org/tourismcampaign2007.htm. It is some empty rhetoric along with a photo taken at some completely different place. 'Infamous' tiger temple indeed! The WFFT seem to be the only group claiming it is bad. It really, really bugs me when groups involved in causes I support spout what I believe to be lies and misdirections like the worst sort of politician - it makes me doubt their integrity and all the other information they present, which is really sad because their key points about the gibbon trade and the phuket/samui/chiang mai tourist circuses are probably correct.
  
• For diet, we have the WFFT saying it is 'an incomplete diet for felines' and they are showing signs of malnourishment. I said that the tigers all look very healthy, so maybe the diet is fine. Perhaps it is even better than a 'complete' diet for felines. Perhaps now with the income provided by the tourists they can afford the required supplements and processed foods to give them a complete diet. 'Purposely not feeding an animal a proper diet' - what a crock. Even the worst of the tourist circuses want their animals to have a proper diet as tourists don't like unhealthy and mangy looking animals.
  
• The ethical choices seem limited to supporting the place helping provide them with the funds they need to make things better than they already are, or putting a bullet in the brains of the animals.
  
• If these so-far easily demolished attempts at raising ire and boycotts actually where to succeed, the animals would be condemned back to tiny cages and would almost certainly have an irregular and unhealthy diet. No tourists going to the temple will not harm poaching in any way, so the animals will still arrive and the local community will still feel obligated to provide for them in the way they did before the tourist dollars came and took on most of that burden.
  
• It is really sad that wildlife activists are lumping places trying to be part of the solution with places that are part of the problem. The myopic world view and total focus on 'the cause' seems to be hurting and hindering good volunteer and high profile efforts with the same overall goal.
  

Intumuch - unfortunately the overwhelming weight of opinion and evidence - both first hand and reported is that the place is not up to standard - any standard.

The treatment of wildlife in general in Thailand leaves a lot to be desired and places like the Tiger Temple at Kanchanaburi and the Tiger Zoo at Sri Racha need "outing".

I have yet to see a single report that sounds reliable, so 'overwhelming weight of opinion and evidence' is nowhere near reality. Having looked for reports, I have now seen *two*, both on this thread. Both are at least second hand. Both make no mention of when the report was made. One is traceable to an organization (WFFT), the other anonymous. The WFFT web site makes no mention of the temple so it doesn't appear high on their agenda. The entirety of the first report is hearsay given it is at least second hand and no source available. Nearly the entirety of the WFFT reports is rumor or obviously factually incorrect by those of us who have been there which makes it all look like a poorly done smear campaign by people with a barrow to push.

Removing the incorrect facts, rumor mongering and irrelevancies from the WFFT report we get:

• The monks / handlers do not have any training or equipment for tranquilising animals. They rely heavily on negative reinforcement to keep the tigers docile, but there is always the risk of an animal getting out of control.
  
• The abbott does not listen to criticism from the WFFT.
  

Of course you rely on negative reinforcement. If you are dealing with a big predetor you won't get very far if you give them a pat on the head if they don't maim somebody that day. Owners of house cats use negative reinforcement - tom's don't stop spraying your door step because you ask them nicely to. I love how they discuss the lack of tranquilizer equipment in the same paragraph as the criticism of negative reinforcement. Does anyone honestly think a whack on the nose, such as a mother would give a cub, is a worse way of keeping an animal under control than shooting it in the arse with a tranquilizer dart or keeping them drugged when around people?

The 'overwhelming weight of opinion and evidence' has had the opposite of its intended opinion on me. Comparing these rather pathetic smears against the information found on the Tiger Temple's web site, positive opinions from better known sources like the Animal Planet special and my own first hand experiences as a tourist there, I am no longer doubting of the claims made by the Tiger Temple nor of their desire to help the orphaned and temple bred animals. At the moment I am of the opinion that people boycotting the temple based on this 'overwhelming weight of opinion and evidence' are doing themselves a disservice by missing out on a fairly unique experience and hurting the animals and people boycotting the temple for moral reasons are perpetuating the problems they see as without funds the animals will continue to be raised amongst humans and be unable to be released into the wild because there are no acceptable alternatives.

as regard's to evidence been shown for those who are intrested please look at this video clip, at around the 2.30 min mark your see the tiger Temple and how there kept, for those who now about Tigers your know that they need aroung 10 squred miles of terrain to themselves, please make your minds up.

This is not the Tiger Temple in Kanchanaburi - it is a totally different place in Pattaya.

Perhaps this a source of confusion? I know up in Chiang Mai most of the tourists want to visit the royal elephant conservation centre south of the city but all the tour shops send people north to the tourist oriented elephant camps - many people just think 'I saw the elephants in Chiang Mai' and not 'I went to a circus that pays kickbacks to tour operators and bribes the local law to remain open'. Pain in the bum getting to the actual conservation centre - when I went there was not even a bus stop so rented a car and drove myself.

If what the WFT message states is true, I'm glad the place has obviously improved since they went through and the monks are genuinely improving the place when they can. The tigers are still fed on cooked chicken (so they don't get a taste for blood aparently), although they certainly seem healthy enough on this diet - it might not be the natural diet or what is used in first world zoos, but it certainly seems to build healthy tigers. Having seen the facilities visible to the tourists improve from that the message describes to what is there now seems fairly strong evidence to me that the place is genuine and genuinely interested in the welfare of the tigers rather than an attempt by a money grubbing abbot to turn an inaccessible monestary into a tourist trap and I look forward to the cubs being able to grow up in a more normal environment around other tigers when the facilities are ready, an option denied to the first generations there.

The tiger used for the head on lap shots (Storm I believe) I don't think is drugged, but genuinely just an extremely lazy, domesticated and totally at home in a community of humans. This seems a perfectly normal thing to happen when you raise a tiger from a cub with no adult tigers around. I think this is also what really irritates a lot of wildlife conservationists who are not so much interested in the animals but in preserving them in their natural behavior in their natural environment. I don't think it is justified though, as places like the temple at Kanchanaburi come into play after conservation efforts have failed with the arrival of orphans on the doorstep of people unfunded and uneducated but at least willing to give it a go and try to give them a decent life. Even if you consider this unnatural environment evil, it seems the lesser of many evils when the option of releasing them back into their natural habitat is just not possible.

I just moved in and I do believe Im the only one here... being treated like a rock star by 50 bored security people

Guys there are lots of you - the first has declaired he is in! (Superb stuff awaiting the invite for G&T on the balcony)

If you are on the third floor, you left the water running. Or something up there sprang a leak and was draining all over the family mart sign and atm.

I bought a Slingbox, but failed to get the correct router, so it is sitting back in the US right now. I will hook it back up this month when I go back for a trade show, but I am really concerned that I will be able to watch it. I have tried streaming video of NFL games, but I can't get any of them. I max out at about 17% of the buffer, and I never get an actual picture.

I pay for 1 g from TOT, but I don't think I am getting it. And I don't know if I will be able to use what my slingbox sends. I will return Oct 29, so I will post if it works or not.

I've seen a slingbox running here streaming around 250k, just over half what I think you need for high quality but may be 'good enough' depending on how picky you are. I think it was connected via 8MB True but no idea how the box back in the US was connected.

I really don't care if the content provider is legal or illegal or the cost. Could someone with real world experience give us a rundown on what is available to us in Thailand and for me, Bangkok. Anyone using a service provider besides True Visions deserves cult status as far as I'm concerned. We need options and contact numbers. Let the revolution begin.

I'm pretty certain instructions or contact details to illegal providers will be removed from here pretty fast. You would get a better response by moving your arse from the couch to the barstool, buying a bar owner a beer and asking them how they receive all those sport channels. Its a tough life having to do research like this :-) and saves you tracking down competing web forums with less strict controls on content.

I too have seen posts from people getting lots of international channels at a much lower cost than True, yet none of the posters every seem to give any details of the wonderful packages that they have!

Is it all bulls**t or illegal?

SCRATT and IAMSOBAD, why don't you share your solutions with us?!

Forums are suppose to be arenas for the exchange of information aren't they?

I think they are getting marginally better service for the moment but want to appear superior to those 'struggling' with UBC. Anyone who watches that much TV to waste time finding alternate services to the current monopoly is not that superior IMHO.

There are some grey area and illegal options if you are looking at this from a Western perspective.

Something like Slingbox (http://slingbox.com/) has a real TV in the US and you pay real cable access fees, but the provider in the US may be breaking the law by sending it to you in Thailand or you may be breaking the law by viewing/downloading content here. As usual, as in any country the laws are at least a decade behind the technology so nobody really knows.

Having cancelled my UBC package recently, I'm seriously considering using the saved fees for a new PC running MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org) or possibly something newer like Vuze (http://www.vuze.com), but I suspect that is not an option for most people unless you are or have access to a computer geek. The more friendly options for Windows or an Apple TV setup are probably not as useful as I suspect they won't be as happy to play downloaded content (because the majority of downloaded content is illegal of course and the larger companies like to keep the other large companies happy, just like it is a pita buying a DVD player that plays DVDs you purchased on different continents). Or maybe I'll just give up TV alltogether - that rediculous 2000 Baht/month fee for a small amount of content on endless rotation will buy more hours of legal DVDs than I used to watch UBC or movies in the cinema (or more beers in your local sports bar if you are that way inclined).

I wonder if the absolutely crap programming is deliberate in order to kill the market for illegal decoders? I know they exist, but I don't think I'd fork over 2000 Baht for one now I know how little I'd actually use it even if I was into the thrill of risking a visit to the Bangkok Hilton for the oh so worthwhile reason of watching TV. Do people know Thais who watch UBC? Thais I know seem to prefer the free to air stations despite UBC claiming that the Thai population is their target audience. Perhaps I just don't hang around with sports or CNN addicts who have to meet any price to feed their addiction.

Oh - and I think the True broadband is in the ok -> marginal quality range, but I'm not going to switch in the near future as I doubt the competition is much better having listened to friends and don't want the hassle and downtime to find out.

I'd prefer a back hoe through a critical cable on the land any day over an undersea cable severance, such as happened earlier this year if you remember when an earthquake took out one cable and crippled the services throughout SE Asia and China. This Internet thing is designed for redundant paths between you and your content, but given the choice between cheap or redundancy home users and most businesses always choose cheap.

"A Garden" at the end of Suk 51 on Friday or Saturday nights. All you can eat meat off the skewers - beef, lamb, pork, sausages, chicken, and fish and prawns off the skewers. They just keep bringing it around until you give up or throw up I think. Comes with access to a decent salad bar and deserts bar, although that isn't Brazillian fare. About 600 baht per head.

http://www.wheretoeat-bangkok.com/restaura...ws/a_garden.htm

I've never bothered with the other brazilian around town - this one recommended by fellow foodies I trust over the others for price, quality & quantity.

What a classic Thai accident. After two years living here it seems always something will go wrong if Thai companies are involved. Its just interesting what and when it will happen. (Of course there are exceptions to this)

Its a classic everywhere accident. A few years ago someone managed to put a backhoe through the main cable between Melbourne and Syndey at almost the exact same time a land slide caused by heavy rain took out the backup connection. Plenty of similar incidents happen all over the world. Its just Murphy's law, not a proof of Thai racial or cultural ineptness.

I agree Pattaya is getting worse.

Recently whilst cruising at night along JOMTIEN BEACH looking for 18yo freelance boys i was followed by a group of drunks.

JOMTIEN BEACH at night is no longer safe for cruising if you are after 18yo boys.

Bag snatching is apparently pretty common Suk soi 11, which I found out after helping a Thai friend who lost a phone in such an incident go through the police report -> clone sim card rigmarole. Nice long straight to speed off, sections of narrow footpath with unblocked access from the road, nightclubs geared to attract wealthier patrons. Sucks that stuff like this is starting to be an issue in Thailand too but thankfully still has a long way to go before being as bad as most countries.