Swelters

I will be building a small house, 100 sq. meter, later this year 50 km south of Pichit.

I want this house to hold as much cold as I generate each day as possible. I have read through all of the postings in this forum , and not seen any that address the design that I plan to use. Being from the south of Mississippi in the U.S. , I am used to the heat. I have seen this design used on many commercial buildings that do not use air conditioning. My intent is to passively remove as much heat as possible. It does not matter to me if the local people see my design as weird.

I would like to hear from others on the design.

Thanks to all.

Sure, if you want to leave your air conditioner on all day. But if you don't, say you want to go to the beach for the day, when you come back you've got a hot, heavy solar heated box and your air conditioner is going to work half the night cooling the thing down.

Try light construction, as the man says.

Swelters

you should add the obvious fix for a tile roof heating problem is to use insulation. home pro sell rolls of foam/foil insulation. remember the shiny side faces up. the R factor on this stuff isn't so high, about R11-18 usually. use 2 layers if you have the budget.

i've been wondering about using grass roof because it looks nice on the inside and is a good insulator and putting a tile roof on top for durability. and maybe some foil insulation inbetween the grass and tile.

the only downside i can think of is maybe rats, snakes, bugs etc. will move in. has anyone tried a grass/tile roof like this?

thx steve

Thanks for the comments Steve, I'll put up more on this topic. But for now I need to say that the shiny side should be down on the foil. If you put the shiny side up, it will work at about 50% efficiency for a while, then become close to useless at dust collects on the top of the foil and it loses reflectivity. Most places this takes only a few months. Watch out, your contractor may be very insistent about putting shiny side up. He's wrong.

Why the shiny side down? Because though most people understand that shiny surfaces reflect heat, the hidden secret is that they also refuse to emit heat. So you can heat up a piece of foil to say 150 C and hold it up in front of your face and you will not feel a blast of heat. Paint the same foil black and you will feel the full force of radiation.

Also for the foil to work it has to have at least an inch or two of air space below it. Otherwise it will do nothing. So you don't want to lay it on grass or anything else. But I'm going to follow up with a case history.

Swelters

Insulation scams proliferate because the thermal behavior of roofs is a little tricky and few people, including sales people, have a clear idea of what is going on. I hope this helps a little.

Metal or tile roofs heat up to 40 or 50 C in the sun in Thailand. Metal doesn't get any hotter than tile, it just feels hotter to the touch. Both to you and any cat walking on the roof.

Proof: underside of tile roof in restaurant in Korat at lunchtime. Very uncomfortable even though the air temp is only 29 C.

The underside of both gets up to almost the same temperature as the outside, 40-50C.

The roof transfers heat to the space below two ways. First it just radiates, just like one of those reflective hot coil heaters radiates. You feel this radiation (especially on your head if you have little hair as in my case) regardless of the air temperature. It also heats up your bed, your floors, your wife, whatever.

The second way is by heating the air below the roof directly. This hot air heat tends to stay up high under the roof but local air currents develop after a while and you can't count on this "hot air rises" protection, after a while the air below will heat too especially if the room is closed. But if you've got a lot of ventilation, I mean a lot, the hot air will flow out your vents or get blown away through open windows or doors.

But the most immediate and discomforting heat comes from direct radiation, no amount of ventilation will help prevent this.

Lets move to a different part of the restaurant.

Amazing, much more comfortable! It's got a grass roof, there are several layers of grass up there.

Proof: the undersurface of the grass is not much higher than the air temperature. Hardly any radiation. As a bonus, the thick grass slows down the movement of heat to the air below, so if you've got even a little ventilation the heat will get wafted out of the room.

But wait, isn't grass a little dangerous for fire and also doesn't last long, maybe 2 years?

More on this if any interest.

Swelters

Anyone know where to buy phosphate fertilizer in Bangkok/Korat?

I actually don't want to use it (100 percent ammonium phosphate) as fertilizer but as fireproofing, I need only a few pounds.

Thanks much,

Swelters

One should not be mean spirited, but there is something fundamentally sad and inviting of bad karma to try to buy prestige, the root of it might have been in Thaksin himself.

Swelters

I've read for some time of mosquito nets that kill mosquitos that perch on them, said to be a widely deployed and useful means of reducing malaria in dangerous areas. Don't know if the technology is just a matter of soaking the nets in permithrin or whatever, or something more exotic.

But no one I've talked to in Bangkok seems to know about this, are they available here?

Also, is DDT on the market? I've heard that it is making a comeback, agin in connection with malaria and dengue control.

Swelters

Education is a very broad subject to cover and here in Thailand some areas are done reasonably well and others not so well. The same is true in a lot of countries. Some countries do a very good job of primary education, but fall short in high school and higher education. In my experience here, I feel fairly confident with primary education and see a relatively well done job, by and large.

By secondary eduction and higher things begin to break down a little more. There are a lot of poorly qualified teachers who are in front of the classrooms and don't know their material particularly well for starters. Secondly, as a very general rule, teachers aren't ever wrong and children are taught early on no to question things. This is very much cultural and in return for respect and patronage, a student will be passed. The emphasis, therefore, is on stressing cultural norms and values rather than education itself.

We also have to remember that education tends to lag behind scientific and technological advancement. My own kids were reprimanded in many ways for playing around with video games and computers--at that time it was seen as a waste of time! Now, it is how one of them makes his living. Had he listened to me, he'd be shoveling sh*t with his brother who did!

A thoughtful response to a less thoughtful OP. Against my own negative prejudices, I'm impressed with what some of the 8 to 12 year kids are doing in our fairly prosperous Isaan village. Math and EFL seem much more difficult than I remember from my elementary school years in the US. But the teachers seem a little too arrogant and the english speaking ability is shockingly poor.

Swelters

OK, so far we are not coming up with anything solid, much to my surprise.

I have tried "Tom Sawyer", we made a recording of the first few pages from a published Thai translation but Twain is surprisingly tricky in his language and it was too difficult for me.

The children's books, Mahlee and all, are too much about monks and ducks and that sort of stuff for my needs.

How about a Thai movie with English subtitles that are fairly close to literal? Any suggestions? Somwthing along the lines of Miyazaki would be great but the original language shoud be Thai, not dubbed Thai which is awful as you know if you ride upcountry busses.

My wife has a DVD of a famous "standup comedian" who is really more of a dramatic storyteller, quite good, but unfortunately no written english translation.

We have a staff of Thai who are proficient at making good recordings in mp3, perhaps in paragraph length chunks, and I will volunteer their services and make the product available if anyone can provide some good stuff--stories of everyday life written in Thai with a fairly literal english translation.

The legal issues are the last of my worries, I'm not trying to profit from someone elses efforts, I just want to improve my comprehension.

Here is one thiong we did as an experiment but it attracted little interest and it was a lot of work to produce this kind of origianl stuff.. The sound files are at http://www.thailanguageschool.com/sounds/naang10.mp3

Naang's Accident

When five years already when I be student

I will go school with school bus as usual

but have some days that I must drive vehicle go school also myself

because I must help work at home

One day I drive vehicle go school also alone

and happen accident come up because I drive fast for to arrive school fast

before cause even here happen come up have vehicle one

run come from soi small small pass fron car me go very fast.

and I not can stop car can, I so hit with car person one hard.

Swelters

There are a lot of pretty good computer programs for snappy bits of basic conversation (such as are sold in BTS stations) but what do you do when you know all that stuff but are still not good enough to follow TV or radio? Does anyone know of any recorded material that would challenge the intermediate learner? Ideally stories about everyday stuff with some fairly close parallel english translation that you can stop and repeat as you choose on a pc until you hear it right.

I suppose a person could go out and get a Thai friend to record something like Roald Dahl's stories which are in Thai translation but you'de think that this kind of thing would be out there already.

Thanks in advance for any tips.

Swelters

Here are a couple of pictures of my village south of Korat. I took them at exactly the same place, 1963 and last month.

We have removed the option to change topic view (threaded view, linear view). All members are now redirected to the Standard view.

Hope this helps members who are having problems with the topic view settings.

Cheers

But i seem permanently stuck now in the thread view, how do i get back to standard view?

Swelters

I'm a guy but this interesting topic reminds me of living in Thaitown which is a part of LA about 30 percent Thai and 30 percent Armenian immigrants both with close family-oriented societies. One day I got to talking with an Armenian shopkeeper, long time in business, who was located in a little block of stores that inlcuded several Thai businesses. He was talking about religion and I said have you ever looked into Buddhism, very interesting, might appeal to you.

"What that, Buddhism, who believe that?"

"Well, it's the religion of the Thai people here."

"What people is that?"

"You know, all the people in this neighborhood, they come from Asia, look a little like Chinese people, come from Thailand, in Asia, they are Thai people, speak like 'neung sorng sam si hah', not english, you know?"

"No. I not know these people."

I have an IRA retirement account at a US bank but cannot access any investments such as many mutual funds that are not acessible to the US bank. I'd like to be able to invest locally here in Thailand. Anyone know if it is possible to set up a separate IRA here for all or part on one's retirement funds?

Thought The Deerhunter was the best of the Vietnam crop. Many of the background cast were recruited in and around the Sukhumvit area in BKK, taxi drivers etc.

My Thai wife's picks of many we've seen are "To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Pride and Prejudice". Seem odd but the Thai are very sophisticated in matters of family and neighborhood politics.

Mail delivery people in America used to carry an umbrella and suddenly open it when a dog approached. Not practical on a bike, but could work walking down the soi. I find the rock pickup works and eventually led to a complete truce with one dog. Now he just cocks an eyebrow as I pass.

I carry one of those collapsable aluminum billy clubs and just whip it out and threaten any dogs that chase me and they back off big time. Had to do the same thing with a couple of humans who threatened me with a beer bottle one time and it worked on them too.

Where can one find this odd but useful item in Thailand, a collapsible billy club?

Thanks

Further thoughts on the "Red Tape" issue which unquestionably could be a serious problem for any non-Thai attempting to set up a profitable business especially one that could be perceived to compete with any local interests.

First, such an entity is beyond the scope of my interest here. I'm much more interested in the satisfaction of doing a successful prototype than making money which I don't really need at this age and also providing for myself eventually and making things easier for my (Thai) wife.

How about a small partnership, co-op, or non-profit "trust" that would include some Thai partners who would be participants. A "rest home club" so to speak. I think that there may be semi-westernized Thai who don't have the traditional family resources who might have some interest whether for themselves or for semi-westernized relatives, including those who are living rather unhappily in the US or elsewhere. The sort of people who might use Bumrungard or Samitivej.

Chiang Mai is an obvious choice because of climate and hospitals but I'm interested in Isan too, maybe Udorn or Korat areas. Nicer climate than Bangkok. Some good areas near Korat but no more than 3 hours to Bangkok. (I just like it there a lot more than Chiang Mai.) Land and development costs are very attractive, the former could be set up on a lease basis.

The best analogy I can think of is a school, and there must be plenty of experience out there on setting up new schools with an "international" flavor and clientel.

Also, I favor emphasizing the day-to-day comforts and enlivening challenges that many of us have discovered as expats in Thailand instead of the usual litany of medical issues and "familiar food and language" that seem to top the list abck in the old country. Those who want American TV, Bingo, mashed ptotatoes and peas, Disney, visits from reluctant grandchildren, topped off with $100,000 of wasted medical technology to stay alive another dreadful month in a urine-scented, $8000/mo facility might not be attracted to the kind of place I have in mind....

Swelters

Swelters,

It seems the post is getting a lot of good replies. All make good points and suggestions. Dr. Namm's comment re "red tape" is for me perhaps the most pertinent. Given this and all the other "speed bumps", suggest we should focus less on getting others to come to Thailand and more on your thought about how to make life more rewarding and comfortable for aging folks like us who are already here!

Maybe an Old Geezer community forum? I can just imagine some of the posts it would have. It might just end up being one of the most interesting forums on TV.

Good idea.

What was the name of the old guy who used to write the famous column in the BKK Post about the bar scene? He could be honorary chairman.

I've got some more thoughts on the red tape issue, will write later.

Swelters

Just to add to the medical aspect (though that is not my main concern here) , my family used the famous Stanford hospital in california for 25 years, only one surgical procedure in that time. In that time they made 2 or 3 major life-threatening mistakes. This and other anecdotal evidence suggests to me that mistakes are not infrequent. Delays are of course the norm.

I think the quality control in Thai facilities is better. Instant access is the norm. Prescriptions are overdone, maybe dangerously so. Physician skill seems similar; the Thai docs have less prestigious degrees but they seem better motivated and good with their hands. American docs have told me that manual skill may be more important in surgery.

Both American and Thai systems seem similarly compromised by commercial interests.

Feeling bad in Thailand? You can get your problem checked out thoroughly in two different hospitals in Bangkok in a single day. Inexpensively, maybe 20 percent of America.

Unfortunately in what must only be for corrupt reasons, American expats get no use of their prepaid government medical insurance here.

On balance, I vote for the Thai system. The experience is faster and much more pleasant, the error rate is about the same, but you can get second reviews easily. This encourages the patient to manage his own care, not hand himself over to an unreliable system.

Thanks for the last two excellent posts.

The local wages for skilled labor I got from what villagers told me of the pay rate (100 baht/day) at the Jim Thompson factory 30 km south of Korat. The hot Satanic mills?

A friend of mine, American midwest, wrote the following comment which would appear to cast further limitiations:

.........

Main problems: distance from City and hospitals. Generally, I think

Americans, myself included, regrettably, are disinclined to hand themselves

over to foreign doctors. A major obstacle, but one perhaps more of

perception than reality.

Panama has the advantage of being "nearer". Another perception maybe, but

real enough to me.

13+ hrs on a plane to BKK, would keep your loved ones from visiting, or

let's be honest, would give them a good excuse not to visit.

...............

My experience living in Thailand make these issues seem not important, I think they may represent a kind of mental distance many Americans feel between themselves and "the orient". How much "further" (door to door time, or cost) from say Los Angeles is rural Panama compared to say Korat? Also I'm not excited about the idea of associating old age with doctors and medicines, this strikes me as an odd late 20th century abberation, longevity at all costs.

I am not thinking about trying to market this idea to the masses in America, at first I only had the expat scene (including myself) in mind.

I don't think all Americans (or other fahlang) necessarily are resistant to a change in diet or language. My parents became adventurous travellers in their late sixties, my father loved studying spanish every morning. A charming young teacher would have added to his enjoyment.

Government complications are definitely an issue. I would think that strong Thai partners or even some existing institution like a hospital would be essential.

Swelters

In a recent thread we have discussed the question of expats growing old in Thailand which led to calls for possible facilities catering to this apparent need, maybe even drawing elders from abroad. The Phillipines have been aggressively promoting this as a business opportunity (I hear you can buy a comlete package, including a companion!) and some Japanese have suggested this as a great opportunity for Thailand. Some posters thought the whole subject was too gloomy but exploring new ways of improving things in life is not gloomy in my view.

Wikipedia has a pretty good starter article with links on "nursing homes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_home

What I'd like to do here is propose some desirable local planning factors and invite others to add to the discussion. Here's a few for starters:

-Thai people have a positive attitude toward old folks, the human body.

-Thai people are not finicky in dealing with matters of personal hygene.

-A well ventilated light structure with easy in/out access is a lot more suitable and pleasing than a sealed cold-weather environment for ill of disabled people. Low land costs allow for this kind of distributed living.

-Gardening in Thailand is a good year-round activity yielding quick rewards

-Upcountry land and construction costs are very low. It may not matter where you are from the customers point of view.

-Super internet and comm facilities will keep you in as close touch with old friends and family as living on the other side of town.

-You're never too old for Thai massage.

-studying a new language is good for the brain

-Skilled labor here in the country is about 100 baht per day, nursing not too much more (?)

-Budhism is a potentially helpful way for people affected by difficulties

-Medcare in the countryside is pretty good now, maybe just as good as it was in US/UK not so long ago.

-Thailand has already shown a capacity to delver international standads of medcare.

-Thai kids are charming, polite and respectful of elders

Other ideas?

Swelters

Several of the responses here suggest that developing a "design concept " for a facility in Thailand would be an interesting and creative effort, and I will attend to setting up a new thread on the topic probably under the health section of the forum (though I do this with the reservation that we should not necessarily think of the subject as a matter of depressing assaults on our health).

Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

My experience with parents in US nursing homes is that you wouldn't want to spend your last days there. I suspect that Thai staff who may be fairly well disposed toward older people would be somewhat better than the immigrant staff in the US places.The entry of big companies into this business may actually be a good thing since the small private places may have low standards.

The Thai based care facility is an interesting idea. It has been proposed as a viable business opportunity by one Japanese economist for Japanese elders . His idea was to place it upcountry and use small semi-detached individual houses. He suggested that Japanese would come here from Japan specifically for residency there, Japan having serious problems with care for elders.

My OP had a typo, "hospitable" should read "hospital". My father in law was recently hospitalized in his small ampur and the scene was an ongoing delightful social festival in comparison with the US equivalent. My wife claims that a falang resident who had developed good relations with the family/neighbors would receive the same.

The whole issue of whether old age and death is necessarily depressing is treated very well in the Canandian film "Waiting for the Barbarians".

Swelters

The other day I was told in a small Isan ampur in Korat that there were 100,000 fahlangs registered as actually living in that province. I find this astonishing, having felt like a visitor from outer space when I first arrived there in 1963. But it brought to mind the whole issue of the later stages of fahlang life in the kingdom. Do many people, having rejected in some degree their homeland, find themselves drawn back, perhaps to some depressing nursing facility in UK or America, in their late life? Do as many find themselves well enough established in their local communities in Thailand to enjoy a Thai-style old age, complete with mobs of hospitable visitors?

Anyone thoughts on this, anyone taken a systematic look at this question?

There was talk of a reduction, but am I correct in thinking it is still 2%?

Plus 1% for something called a witholding tax? And what is a withholding tax, anyway?

And another 3% if you haven't held the property for 5 years?