Swelters

That's a lot of different things you're planning there.

* Building something: Sure, there's the usual hassles but eventually everyone manages to build more or less what they intended.

* Education: Sure, a bunch of computers, some English lessons.. All very well. Well, there's the work permit issue that you would need when you work yourself even if it's voluntary. As long as you're not competing with established (private) schools and institutions then you most likely can get away with it, though no guarantees. You mention 'foundation' but setting up a foundation legally amounts to the very same issues as setting up a company. Very few people doing charity/NGO work are actually properly registered as NGO's meaning most need to keep a low profile.

* Micro credit: Whoa. Now this is seriously something to stay away from. Keep in mind that while 'micro-credit' is a very fashionable concept, what it amounts to is competing with the local loan-shark. You don't want that. This is all major hassle, absolutely not worth it.

And finally, consider if you want to be that involved in the same village you actually live in. I wouldn't do that either.

An excellent checklist of potential problems, especially at the conceptual stage, thanks. Good reason to keep my fahlang presence/participation pretty much out of sight, and not to create any entity that has any official appearance. I think there was a Montessori school started in Trang that suddenly disappeared after a visit from "education officials" and all internet discussion of the event suppressed after a demand by "teachers", maybe an example of what you are saying.

My (Thai) wife and I have an opportunity to acquire some nice land in an Isan village where we have some longtime background and connection (though not her village, she is not Isan). We are interested in sustainable building, King's project ideas, cultural preservation, small project microfinance, and especially doing some educational projects with the local kids. I've seen a lot of interesting stuff scattered through Thaivisa related to this, but my question is whether there is a forum of folks with this interest or experience that would be helpful in overall planning. For example, one thought that has occurred to me is that it might be better to set up a "foundation" and channel any small local contributions through that rather than be seen as rich city folk who are giving stuff away with attendant problems that are likely to follow. But this is only one of dozens of questions.

Thanks in advance for any links or suggestions on resources (either Thai or international).

Swelters

While these kinds of religious prophecies may not be taken seriously in respect to particulars, I think it likely that Thailand is subject to a variety of low-probability but devasting local catastrophes that, with the exception of The 1917 flu epidemic, are outside of national experience for the past century or more. The social and political cohesion of the country will certainly be severely challenged in the near future. Infrastucture has evolved in a period of benign calm, so there is no margin of safety against major flooding or earthquake, both of which are probable events. The country has been adept at smooth talking its way through regional conflicts, but I wonder how resilient it may be in the case of home-grown disasters.

Swelters

My conclusion: about 50 percent effective at close quarters. In other words, mosquitos will find it as attractive as your sleeping self, which is disappointing. More details at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...gid=396&st=

Any other experience?

We have a couple of the goofy looking frog ones .....we turn off the lights and close the door to the bedroom an hour before retiring and the black hole seems to work great....don`t do anything in the daytime...they need darkness to work I think

So you find mosquitos in the traps the next day but don't get bitten? I thought maybe the frog ones were a local less expensive version without the special light that is supposed to emante CO2.

My conclusion: about 50 percent effective at close quarters. In other words, mosquitos will find it as attractive as your sleeping self, which is disappointing. More details at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...gid=396&st=

Any other experience?

Anyone know a good steel fabricator in bangkok for small jobs (stairs, balconies, gates, etc).

Thanks,

Swelters

Based on all said here, one wonders whether the current thai property market is just another example of the maxim that everything is priced at exactly what it should be, and that all opinions (including my own) are worthless.

Swelters

" The "Thai only" rule has kept Bangkok prices very low, a small fraction of Hong Kong or Singapore."

You can not buy landed property in Singapore or above a certain amount of units in a property which would make you de facto a freeholder unless you are a Singaporean citizen or PR.

This is how it was explained to me last week by a Singaporean colleague when we were discussing Thailand and Singapore property options.

He has landed property here and has been looking at Thailand but thinks its a no no.

I do not think the prices are higher here for condo's due to the Thai Only rule - its supply and demand and the demand is much bigger here - many more expats looking for places.

I didn't do my homework on the Singapore ownership rules. But I've heard that prices are maybe 5 times higher for condos there and Hong Kong, campared to Bangkok's typical 60,000-90,000 thb/sm for typical fahlang units. Am I right on this

The property-ownership laws are irksome to us foreigners, but what would the alternatives be?

Anybody can buy property in Spain or Portugal or the UK, and what happened? Price inflation that put so many local and young people out the market that its resulted in a nasty 2-tier society: owners and have-nots.

Spanish property has boomed and boomed, the whole of the coast is now horribly (over)developed, and Florida is a similar story. Would we want Thailand to follow that path? Don't think so.

It is hard that the rich Thais can buy in Switzerland, USA etc. but we can't (securely) buy in Thailand, but that's the price we pay to be here. Many falang residents are (semi)retired males with a Thai partner, and these property laws give her the power. So all you can really do is choose that woman wisely.

If that doesn't suit, you should be making plans to move to Malaga or Ft. Lauderdale.

Steve.

A sound comment. I own property in Los Angeles and here, and I am just as worried about the LA place at a possible bubble 250,000 baht/square meter as Bangkok's 60,000 baht per square meter for condos and a lot less for little shophouse places that can be easily improved. The "Thai only" rule has kept Bangkok prices very low, a small fraction of Hong Kong or Singapore. The market is very slow now, same as US, but the value is still good, with rental returns in the 6-10% range, vs 3% or less elsewhere, and the restated ownership controls are conducive to greater price stability. I for one didn't like the previous situation where questionable foreign developers with questionable local partners were using questionable methods to create a speculative situation in the high-profile resorts -- a creeping disease that was bound to spread and taint the whole property sector.

There are plenty of DVD outlets in BKK but I am looking specifically for documentaries,

I would rather watch "The Fog of War" by Robert McNamara or "Roger and Me" by Michael Moore etc, than "Mission Impossible" type movies.

Can any one recommend a shop

I now order ALL my DVD's from Amazon.com. great quality and fine selection of titles. Just key the title or subject that interests you and a list of available DVDs is returned with prices in US$.

Only drawback is mailing times involved from US to Thailand, but well worth the wait.

In fact I've ordered both of your referanced titles from them amonst many others.

Do you order used ones? Does customs intercept and charge duty? How much wait? Order several at once or one by one?

Thanks for the tip,

Swelters

Our "Black Hole" mosquito trap is yielding a bounty (read dozens) of small black winged insects about 0.5-1 mm in size since the rains began this month. Never saw them before that. May be small enough to be passing through the holes in our screens. Don't seem to bother me but the wife is complaining vigorously of night itches. ANyone have any idea on these critters?

Swelters

Chinese all bury. Also, Muslims.

However, with non-Chinese, non-Muslim Thais it is not unknown but personal preference. My grandfather-in-law requested to be buried when he died. He just didn't like the idea of cremation. And yes, he was buried in a coffin, in a concrete sealed grave at the back of one of my father-in-law's coconut plantations.

I lived in an Isan village 45 years ago, everyone buried in a bamboo thicket outside the village.

SWelters

Very much like Irish wakes as I recall them many years ago.

Just went to an upcountry Thai funeral myself, another young motorcyclist killed, was surprised to see the deceased's sister running around taking snapshots. At the moment of cremation when a drunk uncle noisily asked me for beer money and I stiffly refused, my wife became annoyed with me and asked the same sister, who was just then reviving from from a tearfully dramatic faint, if she could change a 1000 baht note. "Oh she have lot of baht'" she explained.

Indulging, as I do from time to time, in an imaginary view of my own funeral, I find it somehow a little comforting to imagine similar scenes.

Swelters

Recent research from Silpakorn University suggests that Thai people like temperatures of 30 and relative humidities of 80 percent, putting thai thermal comfort in a completely different category from fahlang's.

But based on my experience and my review of the research I have my doubts -- which are expressed in my blog at:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/blog/swelters/index.php?

Considering the several hot days of last month, did you find that your Thai friends were as uncomfortable as you?

.

Swelter,

Thanks for the link. After reading what I think is the relevant part (mostly at the very last of the article) it seems that the effect you describe is a real one but I don't have the background in the appropriate sciences to understand all that they are saying. I googled "hydrologic isostasy" and found some good stuff.

For now...I don't understand where the uplift effect caused by the increased depth of ocean water will occur...not necessarily at or near the shoreline...but I don't know for sure. If its not at the shoreline then it won't halt ocean encroachment. Also, I'm wondering what the time lag is between the establishment of the deeper ocean and the continental uplift. The articles are always talking about long time frames (hundreds of years if not thousands) in their analyses....and....since it is obvious that the increase in water depth due to daily tides does not cause this effect (the land does not undulate noticeably with the high and low tidal cycles) it seems clear that there is at least some time lag between change in ocean depth and uplift...and...since we are talking about uplifting solid rock sitting on stiff lava or magma (I assume) it makes sense to my gut feeling that it may take quite awhile for the uplift to occur after the sea level is established....but I don't really know. This lag might mean that Bangkok would be flooded for awhile (maybe 50 to 100 years...just a wild a55 guess) before the land uplifts to save the day....how long can YOU tread water?

Anyway, interesting phenomena....and from what I have read (not much) it seems that scientists really don't have this one completely analysed yet....if you find some more info please post it.

Chownah

My hunch is that the uplift is greater east and west of the Thai gulf than in the valley, but I don't pretend to have reached any conclusions, maybe this would be a good one to study a bit. I think's it's useful to think of the seemingly heavy rock as a variably dense melange floating on some viscous fluid of even greater density, which makes many land areas want to "bob up" (Eureka!) and if you start walking around or adding weight here and there it's like walking on a bed of floating logs. Teak logs. Many of the sarcastic posters to the early part of this thread were in fact exhibiting naive biblical fundamentalism (Thou art Al Gore, and upon this rock I shall build my Church) If you've ever seen the cathedrals of Mexico City you'll know where this leads.

Swelters

I am an agent (commercial and industrial mostly), I cant speak for other firms but we used to sell individual condo units here but we stopped doing so preferring to act only on behalf of developers in Bangkok, although we still do very nicely out of resales in Phuket.

...........................

Hope this helps and feel free to PM if you want my usual list of suspects who I refer resi business too.

This outline is a real service to those of us in the same position. Much appreciated, quicksilva.

Swelters

Hi, would appreciate any assistance with regard to how to (correctly) size air conditioning units.

I have a 3 bed house and want to install 1 split type system per room - but I'm not sure what sizes to pick. I know my sqm area for each room, but I was told (by a guy in the bar) that I need to factor in sunlight and window gains (?) Could anyone give me any assistance or a rule of thumb guide how to choose the right size units?

Also, if anyone can recommend a good install company in Pattaya area I would be most grateful.

Cheers!

Almost all of the advice you will get will be to oversize units. I think 9000 Btu units are fine for most rooms say 25 square meters or less. try to make the room relatively sealed so outside wet air isn't seeping in and of course if you have roof overhead you should insulate and you don't want sun streaming in directly.

Swelters

works in many cases but we don't know WHAT temperatures at WHAT times of the day "Ungabunga" wants to achieve in the rooms. he mentions three bedrooms. what about living room and perhaps other areas?

True enough, but he didn't want to go to the trouble of doing the calcs. A room with a hot in roof at noon on a sunny day would deliver maybe 10,000 watts of heat and you prbably couldn't find a big enough machine. A room that is well insulated and sealed with two people excersizing vigorously in bed would need about 500 watts of cooling, maybe a 3000 BTU unit. Since 9000 BTU is the smallest available, that's what I suggested. One of these days I'll try to develop a short checklist o help with the refined calcs.

Swelters

Hi, would appreciate any assistance with regard to how to (correctly) size air conditioning units.

I have a 3 bed house and want to install 1 split type system per room - but I'm not sure what sizes to pick. I know my sqm area for each room, but I was told (by a guy in the bar) that I need to factor in sunlight and window gains (?) Could anyone give me any assistance or a rule of thumb guide how to choose the right size units?

Also, if anyone can recommend a good install company in Pattaya area I would be most grateful.

Cheers!

Almost all of the advice you will get will be to oversize units. I think 9000 Btu units are fine for most rooms say 25 square meters or less. try to make the room relatively sealed so outside wet air isn't seeping in and of course if you have roof overhead you should insulate and you don't want sun streaming in directly.

Swelters

Well, some folks just don't want to get it, they must just love Al Gore too much. But for those interested there's a good paper on this at:

http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewconten...text=ees_papers.

Swelters

This link seems to not be working....I'm wondering if it contains the information I'm looking for.

Chownah

Try this:

http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewconten...text=ees_papers

(a pdf file, takes a little time) or google: horton malay-thai holocene

The "bowing effect" indicated in my previous is not the general rule, I don't know it's relative impact on Bangkok per se, but it has a variable and significant effect on certain areas of the Gulf of Thailand shoreline. That's what the Thai guy's paper was all about. But why spoil the discussion by actually reading it?

Swelters

Perhaps they'll mint a new amulet that will metaphysically raise the surrounding land mass in direct proportion to rising water levels. And while we're at it; another amulet that lessens the pull of the moon

Well, some folks just don't want to get it, they must just love Al Gore too much. But for those interested there's a good paper on this at:

http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewconten...text=ees_papers.

Thanks LadPrao for the very interesting story on the 1983 flood, I knew 1983 was very hot and a big El Nino but didn't know it was a big flood. I'd like to look into this more.

Swelters

Meanwhile........

Bangkok gets that sinking feeling

BangkokPost.com from Reuters reports

Thailand's best known disaster prognosticator said on Wednesday global warming will put Bangkok a metre under water in less than 20 years, adding: "You will need a motorboat instead of a car."

Smith Dharmasaroja, head of Thailand's National Disaster Warning Centre, told the Reuters news agency that rising seas and natural sinking will put Bangkok under water by 2025 - unless work starts now on a huge dyke to protect the capital.

"If nothing is done, Bangkok will be at least 50 centimetres to one metre under water," Reuters quoted Mr Smith as saying during an interview in Bangkok.

Mr Smith gained notoriety 12 years ago when he predicted Thailand was in danger of being hit by a tsunami. Largely dismissed as a crackpot and retired from government service with the Meteorological Department, he was brought back as a disaster expert after the 2004 tsunami, which killed more than 5,000 people in Thailand alone.

The problem, he says, is two-fold.

The city is subsiding at a rate of 10cm per year, partly due to excessive pumping of underground water.

Global warming is causing seas to rise and there is evidence of severe coastal erosion just downstream from Bangkok.

To avert disaster, Smith said, the city needed to construct a massive dyke to protect it from rising seas and increasingly violent storms.

"The system has to be started right now. Otherwise it will be too late to protect our capital city," he said.

Mr Smith, as usual, was scathing when asked about how authorities are facing the threat.

"The government does not pay any attention at all."

Over to you Swelters ?

OK, Smith is right about subsidence in Bangkok, groundwater pumping induced, it's been a problem of interest to none other than HM here for many years. I haven't followed the recent trends, I'm not sure about the 10 cm per year or the current projections for the future. It likely varies from place to place in the city.

Now returning to the original issue here, I don't know just what the best evidence is on the relative impact of sea level rise on Bangkok itself. My previous criticism of the cynical commentary here was based on the fact that the commentators all implicitly assumed that the Thai shoreline remains at constant elevation as sea level rises, whereas in fact the increased weight of the sea tends to bow the land adjoining the Gulf of Thailand upward, so the land rises as the sea level rises. In some areas this more than compensates for the sea level rise. Odd, but true.

The Thai scientist that started this whole discussion actually wrote a thoughtful scientific paper on this, but no one took the trouble to look at it, rather chose to mock a poorly written press summary as a typical blunder that the commentators clearly thought was characteristic of any Thai action.

Rise in sea level relative to the urban land area, if it occurs, will require improvement of the lower Chao Praya levee system, which is also being stressed by upstream influences. Last winter's high water made this clear enough. It can and probably will be done, at some considerable cost. But a purely random huge flood such as occurred in Bangkok in the 1920s might be a much worse scenario, much worse than New Orleans. This is what I would really worry about.

OK, we've reached the point where we think maybe we can cool night air from it's excessive 32 degrees by allowing it to be exposed to the underside of an uninsulated roof which is a radiator with say a temperature of 28 degrees.

However cooling the air at constant moisture content also raises its humidity from say 70 percent to about 80 percent, and people even at rest don't seem to like such "heavy" air, I can say myself that it produces a kind of unpleasant suffocating feeling. It's the same thing that often happens at sundown, it gets cooler but "muggier." And if you engage in any physical activity the 80 percent air is going to be less 35% effective at evaporative cooling.

You can look at this by plotting the change on a psychrometric chart as I've done above. It appears that by cooling from the locus of the red dot to the blue dot you are moving within a zone of discomfort without any movement across the gradient of improvement.

Conclusion: In the tropics, cooling the evening air may not help much. What you would really like is drier air more than cooler air.

The radiant cooling directly from 28 degree roof underside to your 34 degree body will however presumably help some.

According to my calculations, the longest day with the most solar energy in Bangkok (no shadow at noon) should be Sunday April 29.

You would imagine that the earth temperatures, which warm the air, would lag a bit behind, just as the greatest heat is usually measured at 3 pm, not noon. More on this at:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webblog/vi...52&bid=2047

The record suggests that the hot season might break at various times between April 1 and May 15, see below.

Swelters

O.K. boys, time to get back to class and take out those blue books. Today's examination has only two questions:

2. What would be the effect of an addition of 20 cm of water (e.g. from a global sea level rise) in the Gulf of Thailand on the elevation of the mountains of the Malay-Thai Peninsula?

Swelters

how does anyone know the melting of the ice caps would only add " 20 cm of water " in the Gulf of Thailand ? and I think people should be more worried

about the effects on low-lying areas in Thailand ( where all the wealth is ) than the " mountains of the Malay-Thai Peninsula "

Ok, you can answer the question substituting "however many cm you want" for 20 cm. Also, you should be worrying about the low-lying areas because you didn't answer question 1 about coastal archaelogical sites that are higher now than they were when sea level was lower.

Swelters

Can it be exploited? I think so. I believe I remember some indegenous people making ice in covered pits which they opened to the night sky every night and closed up during the day...probably in a desert region. My comment was to try to indicate what might be done to improve the efficiency. My guess that a flat horizontal plate with a few centimetres of water on it, no glass cover, and an insulated bottom, built high enough to get a clear view of the sky and with reflectors to block any view it might have of ground based items (buildings and trees) might work as a "cold collector"......but you would have to keep it from getting hot during the day probably...... at least that is what I would try first if this was a project I wanted to be active with...I've thought about this alot but I'm really busy with my organic farming and I also live in an area where the heat is not sooooo bad (northern Thailand)...

The reason I think it would work is that the reason it cools off at night is heat radiation to the night sky...isn't that right?...and it just seems like studying the effect should lead to some enhancement....don't you think?

Chownah

Organic farming sounds more interesting, but you can find some tools to figure night radiation at:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webblog/vi...52&bid=2537