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Normally, the mods would have locked this thread down already due to it provoking arguments. However, that ship has sailed as the post has now been highlighted on the Thaigher's Facebook page. Therefore, I will give my two cents. 

The reason it appears foreigners are here causing problems is because of the language and culture barriers. Its this way in every country that attracts a lot of expats. Expats would be a lot less problematic here if they learnt the language. That would take care of 80% of these issues. 

Then, as there are tons of tourists that don't understand Thai, that alone makes the problem seem worse than it really is.  In summary, the main issue that makes the OP think like this is communication problems. After 15 years here, I have seen everything. In hind-sight, looking back, most if not all issues were caused by bad communication and misunderstandings.

Then there is Pattaya. This is a different ball game all together. If the OP only has experience in Pattaya and that'e what fueled this post, I would say to the OP that they need to spend time in other parts of Thailand to get the true picture. Pattaya is like it own little play ground for hoodlums and trouble makers due to obvious reasons. Just like any red light district. Things happen out of the ordinary and all people, foreigners and Thais alike act abnormally. 

Why does this post bother so many? I bet the ones it really bothers actually are the ones acting in the way the OP described. Otherwise, why would it bother them to read someone else's opinion? 

The Thai media have also jumped on this bad wagon. There are foreigners everyday in the news being named and shamed for their bad behavior. The bottom line is that the climate towards foreigners is becoming more and more unstable these days.

One thing that expats need to understand is that we are guests in Thailand. SO, no matter what you say, no matter what you think, life will go on the way the Thais decide and not on what we decide. If you don't like it, there are plenty of flights out of Thailand. Believe me, the Thais don't care how much money you spend or think you spend here. There is always another foreigner to replace you. Any one foreigner is nothing special. If you break up with your Thai GF because you think she is not a good person, guess what? She will just find a replacement for you online in a flash. You are nothing special. Foreigners in Thailand are a dime a dozen.    

This would depend on the agreement you already signed. If your money has be returned to you, you only have one choice. That choice is to sue him for any damage this caused you in civil court. For example, let's say because of this, you had to spend money in hotels, transportation and an airbnb, then you could sue him for this costs. The problem is that the court costs and legal fees would probably be more than the damage you wanted to recover. 

18 minutes ago, Moncul said:

They can ask. You can walk away.

Don't see the problem.

The problem is that most landlords won't rent to anyone without getting 2 months deposit. In some areas of Thailand, such as Pattaya, you might not get a place if you don't pay. In Pattaya, tenants are known for trashing condos and landlords have resorted to this because if they don't, they will never receive proper compensation for damages. Further, it's how many agents get paid, from part of the security deposit.  Also, high value property with expensive assets need to be protected when rented out.

Therefore, you can protect that deposit in other ways as I suggested. 

4 minutes ago, SlyAnimal said:

Should also do a pre-rental inspection of the property with the landlord (or their agent) and take photos / video of any existing damage, to ensure that you're not blamed for damage which was there before you started renting the property.

There is no need for that. Go to the property to view it. Then ask for those things be to be fixed before you move in. I never ever do what you are saying, I just don't move in unless the damage is fixed or the landlord agrees in writing on the contract to fix the damage. 

53 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I can go one better: I have never provided a TM30 for my 12 years here on extensions from a non O (retirement) 

That includes annual extensions, certificate of residence, 90 day reports including in person and online. 

Also April renewed pp and for stamp transfer did not require TM30.

MANY trips out of Thailand.

Same address 12 years. 

 

Few current threads running on this topic. Seem mainly to do with online reporting require updated TM30 to sync.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Not confusing anything. I am the house owner, and I have the TM30 receipt.

 

If another report is required, I am the one to make it.  It is my responsibility, as owner of the house

 

Availability of receipt not the issue. 

 

I am aware of the June 2020 guidance.

 

But it seems people are now being told they must file new TM30 everytime they return home after have stayed at a hotel that filed one (which is most hotels). 

Who is telling some people they need to provide a new TM30 receipt in what situation? The IO in some cases is simply asking for a TM30 receipt to do a visa extension and does not mean a new one needs to be filed. That is what you are confused about. They just want it as part of the supporting docs. How do I know this? I will tell you how? Counter N at immigration division 1 are asking for the TM30 receipts only and not asking for a new TM30 to be filed. They can see it was already done in the system but still insist on having a copy of the receipt for the file. Why? Because they are cracking down on foundation visa extensions. That’s the reason and a true to life example. It does not mean a new TM30 needs to be filed. 
 

I didn’t need a new TM30 filed after coming back from Canada. I didn’t need one after I changed passports? I didn’t need one when I stayed in a Pattaya hotel for a weekend when returning to Bangkok to my permanent residence and after doing a 90 day report or a visa extension. Just needed to show the original TM30 receipt. Yes, maybe my online 90 day report was rejected, but doing it in person only required the original TM30 receipt and not a new one filed. Clear ? If not clear then I can’t help you any more, as it seems to be a never ending conversation.

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I have both returned from abroad and stayed in other houses/hotels many, many times since last TM 30.

 

So the question is, am I now required to do another TM30?

The new regulations only require property owners and hotel operators to register a foreigner when they arrive at a property for the first time. The update was published in the Royal Thai Gazette on 16 June 2020, and has been in full effect since 30 June 2020.

Expats living in Thailand embarking on short-term travel will no longer need to be reported by their landlords when returning to stay at the property they were originally staying at within the validity of their re-entry permit..  This contrasts to previous requirements where foreigners temporarily traveling outside Thailand or staying overnight in another property had to be reported to the immigration by the property owner or hotel operator. 

So the short answer to your question is "no"

You are confusing the showing of your TM30 receipt to the IO if he asks when you extend your visa and doing a TM30. They are not the same. If you are asked to show your TM30 by the IO, you ask the house owner to give you the receipt and show it to immigration. Most get this receipt when they first move in, so it should be as simple as going into your little folder of receipts and getting it out to take to immigration. However, doing the TM30 is not your  responsibility. It is the responsibility of the house owner. End of story.  

If the house owner can't provide you with the receipt or won't do your TM30, you have two choices. Number 1, hire an agency to get it for you. Number 2, find new accommodation where the house owner follows the rules. Never rent a place without knowing if they will provide you with a TM30 receipt or not. 

On 6/16/2024 at 10:45 AM, Sheryl said:

Thanks for that (though not sure all IOs will be same in this regard).

 

Online 90 day report not possible with my IO in any case. They refuse to accept any but in person, and that for  a "fee". 

 

My main concern was upcoming extension. 

Supplying a TM30 when doing a visa extension was not the topic of the thread. Either was doing an online 90 day report. it was only whether our not you have to ask the house owner to do another TM30 when you come back to the residence after traveling abroad or staying in another house or hotel within Thailand. 

What you are after will depend on the local IO you are dealing with. Some ask for a TM30 and some don't. 

10 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Except that we are now being told the opposite here

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1329800-my-90-day-online-report-was-rejected-due-to-the-hotel-in-bkk-that-i-stayed-at-last-week/

 

All it does is force you to do your next 90 day report in person in some cases. When I have done that, I presented them with the original TM30 I did online from when I first moved to that address and not a new one. Then my next 90 day report done online was not rejected.

3 minutes ago, Almer said:

Yes ningnong I am aware, that is why I asked the question, Why, when you are returning to the house you have lived in for 16 years and every renewal every 90 day is recorded to that house, Why, do you have to, as I posted I know it's the requirement, but Why. 

Read this: 

The new regulations only require property owners and hotel operators to register a foreigner when they arrive at a property for the first time. The update was published in the Royal Thai Gazette on 16 June 2020, and has been in full effect since 30 June 2020.

Expats living in Thailand embarking on short-term travel will no longer need to be reported by their landlords when returning to stay at the property they were originally staying at within the validity of their re-entry permit..  This contrasts to previous requirements where foreigners temporarily traveling outside Thailand or staying overnight in another property had to be reported to the immigration by the property owner or hotel operator. 
 

Clear ?

3 minutes ago, itsari said:

One problem is when you want to stop using the agent if you never qualified for the funds as the immigration will demand to see you had the funds . 

Only way if possible is to use the agent one more time using the required funds and the following year apply your self at immigration.

I tend to disagree with this as they will evaluate each individual application. I have never seen or heard of an example of this happening. Here is one good example. You want to use the income method for your retirement visa. However, for the first time, you can't show 12 months bank statement. So, for the first one you use an agent. Then during that year, you prepare to do your next extension by yourself using the income method. You can now show the 12 months of deposits via your bank statements. The guys do this all the time. 

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Not sure of the point of your thread.

Mind you think for "use an agent" you left out one important reason.

That being opportunity cost of maintaining 800k + on very low interest Thai bank account. 

The point is many people ask me this. I was already adding that before your post. Cheers though. 

I thought of writing this after reading a gazillion recent posts in ASEAN Now/Thaigher. So here goes:

Use an agent 

1. You don't qualify so you need an agency to facilitate it
2. For visas that require a fixed deposit, you prefer to keep your money elsewhere invested 
3. You don't want to wait in line
4. You would rather spend your time doing something more productive
5. Time is money
6. Its easy
7. Most charge reasonable rates
8. You can't be bothered with all the red tape that comes with doing it yourself.   
9. The good ones offer great customer service
10. They can recommend multiple options, as the good ones are knowledgable

Not use an agent 

1. You hate the idea of somebody earning a living for something you can do yourself.
2. You can't afford it
3. You don't mind waiting all day 
4. You are the resident visa expert and you would lose face if you hired an agent 
5. You love to brag about your knowledge and expertise on the Thai immigration system
6. You are afraid of getting scammed 
7. You just hate to see lawyers and visa  agents in Thailand being successful, so you won't use one or promote the use of one as you will be miserable seeing them successful. 
8. They are all scammers. ALL OF THEM!!!!
9. You are retired, you have lots of time, and would rather spend the money (saved by not spending the money on agent) on a good dinner with friends.

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Earlier I asked ......

 

"During this current extension did you maintain the financial requirements? 

That's a yes or no."

OP Reply.......

 

"No I did not"  

 

You forgot the other option of just staying silent lol 

Just now, charleskerins said:

Respectfully you do   

So, tell us why you don't want to do the extension here before traveling????? What is stopping you? The money is not in the bank yet? I will say that the cost of the agency compared to doing all that travel might be similar or less.  

14 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The OP is very unclear. 

Confirmed that current extension was agent assisted (didn't meet financial requirements) 

Perhaps does not realize that an agent can obtain another extension.

Mentions is OP mentions 800k in Thai bank. 

Perhaps aim is to provide the financials and do it all himself.

If that's the case he would need start over.

Who knows

 

Yes, who knows. Sometimes people use agents just to skip the line, get the bank letter, and do their paperwork. Not always because they don't have or don't want to put the 800K. They can also used if you have the money, but its not in the bank enough time before the extension.  Anyways, he seems to want to crack on in his own way. 

On 6/11/2024 at 2:00 PM, KhunHeineken said:

How do you think it will happen, with a particular focus on possible compliance / enforcement, or do you think it will be repealed and just go away? 

 

I've put forward some ideas how I think the Thai government MAY try to get this to work, efficiently, or otherwise. 

 

Happy to listen to others about what they think will happen.  

They don't have the people or systems in place to make it work. Further, the budget as well. I think something will get passed maybe but it will never become law because the senate will reject it. Why? Because implementation and organization. I will go you one better, they will just approve the law with no enforcement regulations like they did with the Jan 2024 law. Then everyone will just carry on as they normally did prior to the law being passed. I can only go on the info and experience I had prior to all this and that's what I predict will happen. However, who knows. Maybe the new generation of Thais can make these things work. 

On 6/11/2024 at 1:52 PM, charleskerins said:

If I go to  Laos  and start over why do i need the agent ?   Deposit 800k wait 2 months then apply at IO in Phitasanulok  -no?

The point we are all asking is why do you want to start over? Why can't you apply for an extension here? There must be a reason. It must be because you don't qualify on your own now. If so, that's why some of us recommend an agent to do it. May I ask the burn g question you don't seem to want to answer? Why can't you do the extension here? Then get a re entry permit if you will make travel plans?

29 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Very sarcastic, but I appreciate your humor. 

 

Those with considerable money to lose, probably should vacate Thailand before the 27th June 2024, in the same way high net worth individuals seek out the cheapest tax jurisdiction for their money, and sometimes for them personally.  Eg.  Monaco.

 

As for hiring extra staff, it will be more like they contract some IT guys in, or re-task their current IT section to have the data bases in the departments communicate with each other. 

 

The immigration data base can be tweaked to calculate the amount of days inside Thailand each calendar year.  This would be based on your passport / face / fingerprints entering / exiting Thailand.  Just some coding for some geeks.  No big deal.  

 

Also, probably ramp up their online tax reporting portal for different languages, higher bandwidth, uploading documents etc to cater for foreigners.  Yes, like 90 day reporting, it will crash, throw you out, can't register yourself, can't sign in etc etc.   They will probably extend from 8th April 2025 the cut off time to cater for foreigners, but ultimately, because they will be turning a baht out of foreigners, they will get something in place.  

 

In my opinion, there will be chaos, but after announcement after announcement, I just can't see all of this going away.  It tells me they are working on it.  Too much easy money involved, either legit, or through "agents."

 

Maybe the best to hope for is the policy is postponed until 1st January 2025. 

You are really paranoid. Have you bought your ticket yet?

36 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

Here's my story sad but true about a girl I once knew       Anyway    I am on a year retirement visa expires  9/19  .

I was going to do  a border bounce to Laos  as you experienced lads call it       

 exit Thailand prior to expiry of your current permission of stay WITHOUT a reentry permit. 

 then reenter Thailand and are given a 30 day visa exempt entry stamp.

You then go to your immigration office and apply for a Non O based on retirement. 

Requires 800k in bank.  - Credit to Dr Jack  

 

Now I am considering returning to the US for 2 months   exiting Thailand around 9/15   returning after Thanksgiving     What would I need to do that and get another one year retirement visa?  Reentry permit?   

Or just do the border bounce before 9/15 follow steps in first scenario even if I decide to go to US. 

I am guessing I need 2 months of bank statements showing 800k in bank correct ,proof of address ,passport and do I need the bank book?  IO  would be Phitsanulok .

Constructive responses are appreciated    negative ,smarmy ,arrogant ,pompous responses will not be appreciated but read anyway. TIA !

 

I assume you have reasons why you can't just do a simple extension so here goes. You are wasting your time and money even thinking about all this nonsense. Just go to an agency and get it all sorted with no hassles. About the girl, well.....................................

I really don't think this will happen the way people are saying.

3 minutes ago, xeniv23 said:

I can easily imagine a Thai universe in which I am sitting across from the Thai IO at my annual extension interview and the IO says "Where are your tax documents proving that you have filed and paid taxes in Thailand on your worldwide income?"  Game over at that point.  In addition you just never know how the IO you are sitting in front of will interpret the law.  Arbitrary and capricious are a couple of words that come to mind.  

Just like you can use an agent to do your retirement visa if you don't have the 800 K or you don't have 12 months of bank statements showing 65,000 Baht per month, I am sure you will be able to use an agent on the off chance what you are describing happens. Don't imagine too much though lol.