wmlc

I have sent you a PM. Our company can sort this out for you at immigration if you still want the extension based on marriage.

You need a lawyer and if you want to everything by yourself, you won’t be able to. The labor officer does not speak English. I went through it already. Hire a lawyer 

What you are saying is not relevant to anything. It is so simple. You are a resident for tax purposes if you have resided in Thailand for 180 days or more whether your visa is tourist, retirement, marriage or you are working. Therefore, you will need to pay tax on all overseas income after 6 months of residency here.

What new rules? The embassies stopped issuing income verification letters and immigration has become less strict now. They issued the new regulation of 12 months of monthly deposits to a Thai bank of 65,000 baht and issued a notice for immigration officials to be lenient and less strict and forgiving. So again, what new regulations are you referring to that have been set up to protect against illegal extensions?

If you can’t afford 209 Baht per month for the subscription which also includes a one drive upgrade on cloud storage to 1TB and 60 world minutes on skype, then maybe you should reconsider your options about where to use your MS word. That’s about 6 USD per month.

They are asking you to certify the agreemenr at the embassy. This is because you are a foreigner. Perhaps next time ask some questions such as “Why do you need it signed by my embassy? What do you need them to verify on the agreement? It baffles me that you just listen to someone saying it needs to be signed. That’s hogwash. It needs to be certified by your embassy. 

Honestly this is a no brainer guys. As long as you replace them before your workmpeemit needs to be renewed, all will be well. Even If l there was an inspection, you would just need to show that this was a recent occurance. Staff resign all the time and it is common sense that you need a little time to replace one after they resign. On the other hand, if there was an inspection and you had not made an effort to replace the staff memeber for an extended period of time, then you would be given a deadline to replace your staff and a fine. Don't worry, just hire a replacement.  Case closed.

My suggestion would be not to go to the markets. Central department store has all the sizes. I'm a size 41 with a wide foot and they carry my size. My mate needs a much larger size and also has no problems. Why don't you shop at Central? Is it an affordability issue instead of a size issue maybe?

Unless you are worried about something you are doing wrong like working illegally or you don't trust your Thai wife, Banks such as Kasikorn Bank are just as safe as any Bank in your home country. On the other hand, if you are still worried then do what most of us do. Keep the majority of your savings in your home country Bank. Whenever you need some, transfer it to your Thai bank via swift code money transfer. Choose a bank that has an account with your home bank so that transfers are completed right away and the money shows up  the next day. For example,  my bank in Canada, TD/Canada Trust has an account with Kasikorn Bank. Via internet Banking, I transfer my funds at 9PM Thailand time and when I wake up the next morning, the funds are already inside my Thai Bank account and I'm notified by SMS. Hope that helps.

2 hours ago, BuckBee said:

Would be interested how that was worked out. Would imagine bending of rules given original situation . Having business in his wifes name would be option but got be bending rules as no one qualified to get permit teaching or a license fo a school . Glad it positive result though ...

No funny business at all or rule bending. You don't need the things you stated no run a tutor centre. 

Your problem is not with Thai people in general, it's 100% solely with your wife. My legal opinion would be to file for divorce. Lol ????????

3 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

I doubt many open a biz with no capital but my understanding of this point makes complete sense. If I am allowed to declare X amount of capital for a fee of 500 per 100k then I would do exactly that and NOT a satang more. Does not mean it is not there or you do not have it just common sense why sink all the cash into a bank account if you do not have to legally. Of course you state it is an offence but surely it's only an offence if the s hit hits the fan and you become liable for something you declared you had but do not.

It would be an offense to declare and register capital that you actually don't have. It does not matter who or where it comes from but you must have it. Simple? I think yes.

16 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

I have a visa based on marriage and I am about to start up a small family "tutoring" business to obtain a work permit.  Checked with the work department and have the all clear and so my wife went to the business registration department today who offered her a list of companies who would take care of all the relevant paperwork.  The advisor of one of these companies has quoted us a price of 12,000 bht which covers all the paperwork, services, a rubber stamp with company logo, the paid up capital and to move us to the head of the queue. There will also be an additional 5,000 bht to be paid for business registration.

 

My wife initially told her that we wanted to open the business as sole owner/or partners with 1 additional thai employee (as instructed by the work department) and that we could show 1 million baht in the bank but the lady advised us that this was not easy as I would have to prove were the money in the bank originated from.  She has said that she can open a small family business with my wife as owner and 2 other thai employees and me as an additional employee.  We would have to pay social fund payments and as long as we earned under the tax threshold we would not pay any tax.

 

My question is this, the 1,000,000 registered capital I could show has been lying dormant in my 2 bank accounts for over 5 years so why would I have to prove where it came from?  I would prefer to only start a business with my wife and I with an additional employee so what is it that prevents me from doing so?  Secondly, is 17,000 bht all inclusive a fair price to pay for business paperwork and registration

 

Cheers guys

 

JAF

That is a very cheap price. Our firm charges 25,000-40,000 baht. If the lawyer has a good reputation then you should go for it.

13 hours ago, khunPer said:

I'm afraid Ubon Joe is extremely correct, as this was common practice during many years – everybody was surprised when I insisted on all capital should be paid in, when I established a Thai Co. Ltd. as it was very unusual; but as the shareholders are liable up to their nominal shareholder capital, it's much easier just to pay it cash into the company's bank account. Lately, to avoid proxy shareholders, the Thai shareholders may need to show proof of fund, and I'm not sure if you still can avoid paying anything into the company upon registration.

I'm sorry but you and Ubon Joe are dead wrong. The capital must be real and many companies are being inspected for this very thing now. The only thing that happened was the Thai authorities were too lazy to ask for proof of the capital in the past and you know why? Because who in their right mind would open a business with absolutely no capital? If you do, your just asking for failure. All will be revealed anyways when the Revenue dept and other agencies come a calling for answers. It is extremely bad advice on the part of Ubon Joe to suggest you can open up a company using fake or no capital. This is very unlike him because his advice is normally very sound. I'm finished with this topic now. Please advise members accordingly to the law and stop trying to show the loop holes in the system. It will always come back and bite you in the ass if you operate under these grey areas. I've seen it many times in our law firm with our clients. 

Finally, please don't message me for legal advise. I will only from time to time reply to some posts. I'm in no way way or have the time to take new customers from this forum. I have sent a couple of members the number of our Thai lawyer and it was just a complete waste of time. The reason why is because members come here for free advice and have little to no means to hire a lawyer. For this reason I will just try to help when I can. I suspect this is the reason why our legal questions thread has disappeared. Because Siam Legal did not get much business from it. Good day to all.

14 hours ago, Longstaff said:

OK. having been through all of this in the past 2 years, and again only a month ago, my understanding and experience is as follows:

 

1. If you are married to a Thai then setting up a simple Thai family business (not a Ltd Co) is the easiest way to go. You can get a visa based on marriage (with the required 400K in the bank), and a work permit based on having sufficient staff registered on social security. For sure you can work in your family cafe / bar /  restaurant (but you can't be a bartender). The business does not need to be VAT registered.

2. A limited company must have shareholders and the value of their shares must be declared and registered with BDB. If the shareholders are all Thai, the registered capital does not need to be proven, and can be 1 million. Thus the liability of the limited company is limited to 1 million.

3. If you set up a new Ltd Co with a farang shareholder/s (maximum 49%), then everyone's capital must be proven through their bank records, and 2 million is required

4. A farang may become a shareholder of a Thai company with their shareholding duly registered with BDB (up to 49%). This process does not require proof of capital contributed.

5. The 49% shareholding farang may be the sole director of the business.

6. To get a work permit in a limited company, the company must be VAT registered.

 

As stated previously and by seancbk above, seek legal and accounting advice...the cost of this is relatively small compared to the overall cost of establishing a business. Other TV members will happily recommend suitable advisers in their region I'm sure.

 

Doing something you have never done before is an adventure. If you are up for the challenge then get stuck in, but don't underestimate the hassles you will encounter in terms of getting through the bureaucracy and dealing with people providing services to you (especially tradesmen). Anticipate everything costing double your best estimate and taking at least twice as long as you think. Don't get blindsided by things like signboard tax after already erecting a 8 meter by 4 meter sign over the front of your shophouse!

 

Once again, good luck and best wishes for your venture.

Aha someone with a little more time than me was kind enough to elaborate further. Thanks so much for that, I did not have time to go into so much detail. Cheers

31 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I can assure you many people have gotten a work permit without showing a satang of capital.

This topic is not about a large existing company and getting a work permit.

This topic is about opening up a company and getting a work permit period. All this discussion is warranted. However, I better hush up now or I will be in trouble.

17 minutes ago, seancbk said:

You missed my followup post where I explained that the Paid-up Capital can be accounted for in the company accounts by issuing it as a loan to the directors.   This effectively puts them on the hook for the 1 or 2 million should the company go bust.

The idea is that you can start a business without the 1 or 2 million sitting in the bank and once you have a legally registered entity, and have the requisite staff for the business to qualify for a foreign WP, then you can apply for a WP.  

 

I did also say that anyone thinking of setting up a business should consult with experts in the current rules and regulations (and loopholes).    

Frankly speaking, as a foreigner I can't see the point of setting up a small coffee shop or similar little business for the purposes of getting a work permit.  Fair enough helping your wife/GF (if you have one) with a small business of their own for some extra money in their name, but no need for a limited company with you involved in that case.      The only time I would recommend a foreigner get involved in having a limited company is if they plan to build a business with loads of outlets like Cafe Amazon with hundreds of staff..... something that has projected revenues of multiple millions.  

Not one little shop that might make an extra 50,000 baht a month.

I also wouldn't advise going into a business you know nothing about. So unless you've previously owned and operated restaurants or cafes (for example) then steer clear.   They are hard enough in your home country, and way harder here in Thailand.    The same goes for any business (anywhere really).

 

I didn't miss it but I would not advise that as well, since if an inspection happens, there is no actual money that was loaned. Just a fake loan agreement.

14 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Used to be the case that the money did not have to exist. On the balance sheet there was a corresponding loan to the owner, on which some nominal rate of interest was charged.

 

Things have tightened up, and now they want to see that the Thai owners, often previously nominees,  have actually paid money into the company. Although there are probably ways to avoid that.

Thank you very much. I was waiting for Ubon Joe to come up with this answer and he could not because he has no idea about this subject. If the company has no capital provided by the share holders or owner, the director will be in a heap of trouble. What Ubon Joe also does not know, is that inspections by the ministry of Labour and immigration are done for this purpose alone. You must have the capital! It is illegal to register capital you don't have and very bad advice to suggest to anyone it can be done. 

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I can assure you many people have gotten a work permit without showing a satang of capital.

This topic is not about a large existing company and getting a work permit.

So what you are saying is you can open up a company, register 2 million baht of capital by paying the 10,000 Baht fee without having any of that 2 million in capital and then get a work permit? Is that correct? Yes? Or no?

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

There is a special clause in the ministerial regulations for those married to a Thai that the registered is one million baht.

You did not post a source for what you quoted. It is evident that is for a large company. There a lot of clauses that can be applied for different companies.

A startup company certainly would not have 3 years of tax payments to show.

2 hours ago, wmlc said:

 Ubon Joe,

 

What do you mean about the capital not needing to be in cash? Does this mean you can use property? This needs to be clearer because I think you are wrong in what you say.  Here is the law for all to see. Fully paid up registered capital to me means cash cash paid into the business. Also 1 million is not just ok by some Labour dept offices. It clearly states the reason why in this law. It's about the amount of corporate income tax paid for the last 3 years.

 

• "The company must have a fully paid-up registered capital of 2 million Baht to hire one foreigner, plus one person for every additional 2 million Baht (to a maximum of 10 people). 
• If the registered capital of the company is less than 2 million the company can hire one foreigner if its total corporate income tax payment had been at least 5 million Baht for the past three years."

 

So please clarify for us all. Thank you.

 

Here's the exceptions:

The Labour Department may also issue or renew work permits regardless of the above criteria when the foreign individual falls into one of the following categories:

-employed as an international trade representative inspecting product quality, purchases or conducting market surveys
-employed as an investment or management technology adviser or internal auditor
-a tour representative bringing foreign tourists into Thailand
-employed in an international financial institute endorsed by the Bank of Thailand
-employed a non-profit organization on a temporary basis
-employed as a contractor on projects for state agencies or public enterprises
-employed in a business that mainly required the use of local raw materials
-employed in the Thai export sector
-employed in a business introducing and transferring technologies to Thailand
-employed in a sector where qualified Thai employees cannot be found
-married the cohabiting with a Thai national and has an honest employment.

There is actually no indication of any capital being required ( 1 million) if the ministry of Labour issues a work permit under any of these exceptions. It is up to the descretion of the officer and most officers lower it to 1 million.

58 minutes ago, seancbk said:

The important part is the "registered capital'  when you form the company you have to 'register' the capital that is held by the company, this capital is supposed to be to cover debts that the company might incur so that *if* it goes bust the creditors will have at least some chance of getting their money.   

For a Private Limited Company there is a fee of 500 THB which is paid per 100,000 THB of registered capital (a fraction of 100,000 is considered as 100,000).   So the fee to 'Register' two million THB of capital is 20 x 500 = 10,000 THB.

You pay that 10,000 THB and your company has 2 million THB of registered capital.    

Hope that helps.

Much more info available here - http://www.boi.go.th/index.php?page=setting_up_a_business

Sure that is directly from the BOI website which is great. But you actually must have the 2 million baht in cash. You can't just pay the 10,000 Baht baht to register capital you don't have. Ridiculous to think otherwise.

39 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is a special clause in the ministerial regulations for those married to a Thai that the registered is one million baht.

You did not post a source for what you quoted. It is evident that is for a large company. There a lot of clauses that can be applied for different companies.

A startup company certainly would not have 3 years of tax payments to show.

The source is the ministry of Labour and code of foreign workers act as well as BOI- Board of foreign investment. I'm still waiting for the answer about whether or not the capital can be put up in other options other than cash. But I suspect you don't know. Thanks but I'm going with the law on this one. Again it is ridiculous to think you can pay the 10,000 Baht fee to register 2 million baht of capital without having the money. Ludicrous and justly unfounded advice.

On January 1, 2017 at 0:06 PM, ubonjoe said:

If married to a Thai the company or partnership only needs to have registered capital of 1 million baht and at some work permit offices only 2 Thai employees.

Registered capital is just number used when registering the company it does not have to be in cash.

 Ubon Joe,

What do you mean about the capital not needing to be in cash? Does this mean you can use property? This needs to be clearer because I think you are wrong in what you say.  Here is the law for all to see. Fully paid up registered capital to me means cash cash paid into the business. Also 1 million is not just ok by some Labour dept offices. It clearly states the reason why in this law. It's about the amount of corporate income tax paid for the last 3 years.

• "The company must have a fully paid-up registered capital of 2 million Baht to hire one foreigner, plus one person for every additional 2 million Baht (to a maximum of 10 people). 
• If the registered capital of the company is less than 2 million the company can hire one foreigner if its total corporate income tax payment had been at least 5 million Baht for the past three years."

So please clarify for us all. Thank you.