Shawn0000

Just now, lopburi3 said:

Actually you can have mouse anywhere in in message text box area and it will darken - but almost impossible to see if you do not.

Then the contrast setting on your screen needs adjusting.

I was threatened by another member today with a defamation charge, I had mistakenly replied to the wrong poster, and I wrote something about them that therefor was not true.  When challenged on this I explained that is was a mistake, posted what I had thought I was replying to and appologized for the mistake, however they responded with a confirmation that they will actually be prosecuting.  I was wondering what other members think, do they have a case for defamation of their TV alias that was within minutes appologized for and explained for the mistake that it was?

1 hour ago, laochef said:

Back in the '80s, I knew a guy from the UK. What he said, was that over 2 years he bought 2 houses, with land, neighbouring, i.e. 2 Chanotes. Both in the name of his FUTURE Father in Law (He was not officially married to his GF). Then he did get married, and his Father in Law gave him 1 House as a dowry. This was accepted at the Land Department and his name was put in the Chanote as the owner. The Father in Law was deemed wealthy enough, with 2 houses, 2 cars and a healthy bank account, that he could give away 1 house to his Son in Law. Notable is also that he (the farang) was the ONLY owner of the house, his, now, wife was not in the Chanote. (I did see his Chanote at that time)

Has anyone else heard, or know, if this is really do-able ?

I presume it was just the house and not the land it was on.

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Well thats where we will have to disagree..........

 

If you think that corruption in Thailand is "just a bit on the side" then you sadly don't know how it works here because it is the way that the country is operated and those people that "operate it" (the powerful, the rich, the elite, the untouchables) ensure that the corruption network works well because that's how they get their income and power.

 

They don't want it to change and will occasionally pay "lip service" to the international pressure regarding corruption, however they ensure that it continues for their own good. And to give you  a good example, why do you think the military are buying submarines from China? Do you think that Thailand's coastline needs protecting – – not a chance, it's because of the backhander which will be paid to those in power. This and many other examples stand out; the administrators, mayors and police chiefs etc are not promoted to these positions, their families buy them for them because they know how much money will flow into their coffers from the corruption that exists to feed these positions..........and so on. If you've been here long enough you will know this.

 

And as for the "will of the people changing it", well there's very little chance of that happening because in surveys carried out something like 70 to 80% of everyday Thai folk think that corruption is fine provided they get something out of it.

 

So you see the people don't want to change it because that's all they know and it is a way of life here – – built into the processes and positions which run, rule and govern the country to ensure that the people at the top benefit.

 

Anyway as we have agreed, not really the subject of the thread, so we will have to agree to disagree. 

 

 

What you have described is actually just a bit on the side, unlike some countries where the corruption prevents anything from happening at all, in Thailand things continue to function, it is not all that bad here, it's a big issue but when we observe cases around the world, cases that looked completely lost but have turned themselves around, we can see that there is a very good chance for Thailand.

And you may look at that statistic as a lost cause, but I look at it as a need to educate, to turn around the relatively slim difference between the minority and the majority and turn it into the majority who see corruption as a problem, obviously it is doable.

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

 

Oh, you mean tilting at windmills.  

 

It's been going on for millennia, everyone knows it's been going on, so "educating them" is rather arrogant.  Personally, I prefer to be educated myself- by people who grew up and have lived within the system for their entire lives.  They know a little more about it than you or I will ever know.  Strangely, both here and in China, I have usually found a logic to their customs which are so foreign to me.

 

Coming over here with our superior western mentalities causes a lot more problems than learning to live within their existing culture.  Rather than lecturing them- which has a tendency to cause people to bow up and does more harm than good, I try to live my life the best and most honestly I can, and hope to set an example that catches on.  Sometimes I succeed, sometimes I fall short.  

 

Beyond that, I have neither the right, nor ability to change their culture.  My only real choice is whether to stay or leave.  Anything else is folly.

 

I hate that you call corruption culture.

20 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

These are wealthy foreigners and the appear

to have no problems with their local friends

and a considerable population of expats that

they golf, travel and socialize with..They are

Christians. 

And they probably wont.  Those extremist types are probably much more interested in the Malay Christian converts, like who I socialized with, than expats, but they are generally concerned with people trying to convert people and they do have people out scouting around to find them, they may well have checked your friends out, that is quite probable.  I just don't have a lot of faith in the future, it could go different ways, but one of those ways is an increase in fundamentalism, there is a powerful and large core that could gain more control and just generally make it a crappy place to live, otherwise it would be a great choice, beautiful, friendly, modern, clean, efficient, most people seem to speak English, great food, everything about it is great other than the religious aspect, that is actually at present is bearable.

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

As foreigners in this country, we have absolutely no input into whether the endemic corruption continues forever, or stops tomorrow.  None.  Zip.  Zero.

 

Our only decision is whether we stay here and accept it, stay here and tilt at windmills (consigning ourselves to misery), or don't stay here.  

 

Of course you have some input, you can not partake in corruption, that is doing your bit, unfortunately many expats do, they bribe officials to handle their paperwork faster and they bribe the police to get off a larger fine, they are actually exasperating the problem, the problem being so many people think that their little bit will make no difference, it does.  The other thing you can do is spread opinion, talk to people about the problems that corruption is causing in Thailand, educate them as to how to avoid paying bribes and encourage them to do the same to their acquaintances.  It may not be a lot but neither is it none, zip, zero, which is just your own uninspired complacency speaking, part and parcel of the problem.

28 minutes ago, Paruk said:

Hiring a lawyer to do that would be the same as asking a notorious bank robber to safeguard your money!

choose your lawyer wisely, they are not all corruptible, mine is a French barrister who regularly takes on cases of corruption, he is not in the game of ripping people off.

9 minutes ago, Paruk said:

You might have missed it because of riding a high moral horse but there is an ombudsman that covers all government departments and you can easily report people that work for the government by using article 157 of the moral code for governmental workers. As a matter of fact, we have used the services of the ombudsman a couple of times and it did wonders. We had several officers of the tax department removed from their post (promoted to insignificant position in some little districts far away) based upon article 157.

 

So enough weapons to go to battle. But most of all, if you live somewhere, you better get to know the rules and laws if you don't want to get screwed all the time. Knowledge is power and ignorance your demise.

An ombudsman that covers all government departments translates to enough weapons to go to war in your mind, in mine it is woefully ineffectual, you only have to work within a government institution to know that no one is ever looking, they give contracts to family and friends, buy supplies from family and friends and funds go missing regularly, where was the ombudsman?

I know it is legally possible to report someone for corruption, unfortunately you must be extremely careful how you go about this and you must have all the evidence, in most counties you can give your testimony and they will investigate, but it not always the case here, they may well just turn it back onto you, and that is making the people too afraid to report people, I am sure you are aware of this predicament.

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I don't accept it by partaking in it and never have done, so I have done my bit and it doesn't seem to have made any difference whatsoever.

 

I think what needs to be understood here is that corruption here starts at the very top and the corruption pipeline goes from the very top to the very bottom and the corruption money is fed into this pipeline and supports just about all and sundry. It supports the very people who make the laws in this country and also unmentionable others, so they have no interest whatsoever in stopping it, because it is their lifeline/lifeblood.

 

Why would the people who benefit most from this corruption want to change anything. That's why nothing has ever changed, because those that benefit from it make the laws and they ensure that the laws can be easily circumvented or overlooked for their own benefit and those above them.

 

In Singapore, they had a leader, Lee Kwon Yu who was not corrupt and who saw what he wanted for his country and because of this he was able to change things, but that's not the way here.

 

Anyway this is off topic, so back to what this thread is really all about.

My last post on this, look into the past corruption in Czech, corruption was running the country, you had to pay boys to enter the train station, the police were not being paid so did not work, instead private insurance companies took over and charged a tax to protect people, there was no justivpce system, only the rough justice of the mafia, the corruption literally was bottom to top, nothing like in Thailand where corruption is a bit on the side.  Yet look at it today, everything is back to normal, it took the will of the people to change it, and change it they did.  The biggest problem with fighting corruption in Thailand is complacency, the people feel they are powerless, they are not, they can change Thailand just like the people have changed countries all over the world, Thailand really is not a special case.

14 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Coming all up in person means no Poa allowed get it?Well u can try ask the crooked lawyer crooked loanshark and crooked fake tenant to stop with their scheme since u not think adjusting the laws will work.

And I said that we need to adjust the laws, not sure where you got this about me thinking that adjusting them won't work.

7 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Coming all up in person means no Poa allowed get it?Well u can try ask the crooked lawyer crooked loanshark and crooked fake tenant to stop with their scheme since u not think adjusting the laws will work.

Oh, I see, well I am sorry but that is plain ridiculous, no way is any government going to bring that in as who would want to waste their life appearing in person every time they need to sign something off? It's not as if everyone has one plot of land, some people have hundreds and are buying and selling regularly, it would simply make it impossible for some businesses, we very much need poa's, that's why we have them.

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

And of course, not wanting to be rude, but that statement is a nonsense. If you live in Thailand you accept it because it is a way of life and has been since time immemorial here.

 

Nothing that I can do with my attitude can prevent corruption here – – in any way, shape or form. And there are laws governing corruption in just about all walks of life, but they don't work because this place is corrupt from the top down.

No, it isn't nonsense, you should not accept it regardless of how normal it has become, it is holding the country back and so are you if you partake.  And yes, there is something you can do, you can refuse the opportunity to bribe and instead pay the real fine if you are stopped by the police, you can refuse to pay officials who want money to speed things up and accept that it will take longer, you can refuse to partake in any corruption, like everyone should be doing, every little helps.

There are laws, but they are not effective, the laws and the sentencing guidelines need to be changed, we need ombudsmen for every government department, full audits of all government institutions as a matter of course, the introduction of public tendering for government contracts, and we need to be able to report people, at the moment we simply have to accept that it is a very dangerous game to report an official, that law above all others needs to change.

2 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

More effective will be to have law that all parties must show up in person in case of any change in company and titledeed ownership documents.

That would be easily corrupted, it only takes some money to produce a fake power of attorney, happens all the time.  The most effective way will be to tackle corruption as a whole rather than trying to find solutions to each and every little issue as they will just be met with counter solutions by the corrupt 

9 minutes ago, gemguy said:

Yes...and that, in part, is what happened.

He was the first guy to pay attention to the plight of the farmers and address their concerns in meaningful ways while he did not do it for free rather it was also profitable for him ...but, at least he had a plan that created all the more consumerism and spread around the wealth and the money while the spin off effect that happens when relatively large sums of money are funnelled into areas that are undeveloped always has a great deal of benefits and lots of appreciation.... 

The guy was a crook for sure and did everything and more than all the other crooks, but, for all those people that benefited from his policies they can easily forgive and or ignore the fact that he was also raping and pillaging the country like all the others ...but the difference was, he gave to them more than they had ever received before in the form of money and social services and commercial business opportunities to profit from and the means to conduct business and  generate income and move up and out of dire poverty.

All of that which was greedily withheld by the other people in power for so long and by those in positions of wealth and power and positions to share some of the wealth ....but..... they did not...and that is fact...they did not ...but he did....and hence the admiration and loyalty to the man and his politics.

Similar to a good boss verses bad boss or a "Cheap Charlie", greedy boss verses a generous and benevolent boss type of scenario while working at a large wealthy corporation.  

Who would you be inclined to want to work for or work with???

He wasn't actually the first in Thai history, he was just the first to remain in office longer than a couple of months, there were some three or four who tried before him back, I think in the 80's, not sure it was a long time ago that I read about that troubled time in Thai politics, I believe the shortest one only lasted a couple of weeks!  Such a threat to the status quo that empowering the poor truly is in Thailand.

5 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

KL is a extremely smelly conjested place and Penang is a sleeping deadboring village town where all lights are out at 8 pm.I never went back.They have balanced ownership rules yes i admit that.Vietnam why i read here about 99 leases and full ownership maybe fake news?

I do not like either KL or Penang either, but there is a lot more to Malaysia than those two places, Cameron Highlands, Perhentian Islands, Taman Negara, all absolutely amazing places.  But, yes, it is lights out at 8pm, unless you know where to go, there are underground bars in even small towns, but it is very hush hush, you need to be taken to them, you would never notice one from the outside.

Vietnam may have 99 year leases, I don't know, but you cannot own land freehold, of that I am certain, full ownership of one house and it's garden is possible though, just no more land than the immediate garden.

35 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well that hasn't been done and never looks likely to be done, but even if it was you are missing the key point.....Corruption always has and always will be endemic in Thailand and no amount of laws will overcome that, so you are always likely to get screwed over no matter what!

Really, you've just excepted corruption for eternity and don't even believe that it even possible to stop it?  Well, that attitude is the one that Is preventing it being stopped.

Of course a law could stop it, start putting people in jail for curruption, mix up police from different stations everyday, and tell them that sometimes they will be working with an undercover looking for corrupt police, put politicians in jail for long sentences, confiscate all their assets, give rewards to the public for reporting corruption and fines for partaking, and most importantly end this ludicrous defamation law so that we can start making police reports without ending up being charged ourselves.

It has been achieved in other countries, you just need to look at Eastern Europe, how some countries descended into absolute corruption following the end of the union and how most of them have recovered and ended the majority of their corruption to see that is can be done, and those countries had way worse corruption than Thailand has seen.

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

 

Vietnam does not offer land ownership for foreigners, you can own one house as long as it is your main address but not land.

I wouldn't say that Malaysia is just a boring country though. it has some of the best natural sites I have ever seen, there is little night life though if that's what you are after, it does have som but it is phenomenally expensive and illegal, but its there, its much like the hiso karaoke scene here.  But the beaches are incredible, as are the National parks, it's a very clean and well managed place, I do like it but I probably wouldn't live there again, and I only did last time for a couple months, not  enough time to really know the place.

38 minutes ago, the guest said:

This is Thailand, there is no freedom of speech in this country, its not allowed.

If you are truly concerned that which term is used by a news provider to describe disabled people will limit your freedom of speech you simply can't be suffering the problems that freedom of speech is designed to prevent.  Freedom of speech is about preventing governments from silencing their opponents and creating dictatorships, you seem to think it is about your right to be offensive.

12 minutes ago, Krenjai said:

I want to make one addition to my earlier post. Although I am not a lawyer in my opinion I think the safest way in all of this if people go into a lease contract with renewal options they must make sure they also get control of the land owning company. Even if the land owning company always needs to be 51% Thai owned, it can be structured in such a way that the other 49% has control of the company voting rights and therefore controls what happens. This is not circumventing the law!  And is different than creating a separate Thai company with 'fake' Thai nominees to 'own' the land, that is officially illegal.

 

By the way: this 50 year lease is just a BS pitch, as soon as this is possible I am sure we will see everywhere sprout up like weed:

 

• 50+50
• 50+50+50 (LOL!)

 

Presumably the simplest way would be to own 49% and have two other Thai owners, one owning 26% and the other owning 25%, that way you have the majority share, but perhaps one could sell to the other and get the majority that way?

49 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You can never be sure when leasing anything in Thailand that the person/company you are dealing with is not only legitimate but has actual title to whate they are selling. The only way to be sure is to do the investigation yourself and that is very difficult even if you can read Thai.  You need someone who has real experience in land sales and contracts who can go to land offices and find the documentation and verify details. That is why banks verify every detail before granting a mortgage. 

If you as a foreigner are unable to do this or able to have a trusted family member do this- I would never buy ......there are situations that occur involving land/condo sales in this country that are beyond one's belief....yet they happen.

Wuldnt you just hire a lawyer to do that for you?

2 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

Two friends from Australia have chosen Malaysia because of

home ownership as well as Visa requirements.....beautiful,new

homes for approx.  (in Baht) 12M...  they are quite happy!!

 Quite a lot of money, you get one hell of a house in Thailand for that much, what sort of property are we talking, and where?  I do like Malaysia, not sure I trust their politics though, I knew a group of Christians there who lived in constant fear, many of their acquaintances had been taken in by the religious police and interrogated as to whether they were planning to convert from Islam and they felt that they were constantly under surveillance, I think it would be a concern being a Christian living there, you can put other people at the risk just as well as yourself being accused of trying to convert people, people don't realise just how many fundamental Islamists there are in Malaysia and just how influential they really are.

30 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Does Mr P think that you will not get killed as easily in a pre-2012 car? T I T.

We have the same rule in the UK, you don't need to wear a seat belt in cars made before seat belts were compulsory and they weren't fitted as standard, which means cars pre 1966, in the US it is 1964, in Thailand 2012.

2 hours ago, hansnl said:

Old farts spending their own savings, spending their own pension, enjoying their life, you mean?

Where do you get the idea you have a right to get an inheritance?

You did not work for your parents money, they did.

Actually, during your early years they did already spend a lot of their money on you.

Did you pay that back?

A very western mindset you have, and the very mindset that will one day see the west beaten by the east.

And what leads you to assume that everyone's wealth has been earned by them, some of our families have been handing on inheritance for hundreds of years, for one generation to stop that cycle and instead blow it all on themselves would be beyond their rights.

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sea ice makes no difference to sea level when it melts.

It wouldn't if the sea was fresh water, but seeing as it has salt in it, it does effect the level, try it if you don't believe me, put some salt in a glass of water, add an ice cube, mark the level and watch the water rise as it melts.  This is because salt increases the density of water, so as the ice melts, which is fresh water due to the brine rejecting effect of freezing, the density is lowered and the volume increases, the mass remains the same, but the volume increases resulting in an increased water level.  In sea water, the volume of meltwater is 2.6% larger than the displacement of the ice, but then there is the offset incurred by the temperature of the water being reduced by the melting ice which will increase the density of the water, but not by as much as the decrease of the added fresh water, the level will still increase, and much more so over time if we lost the ice cap entirely as then the water temperature would increase and decrease the density of the water further increasing its volume.