sjaak327

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Really? No, I do not think that neither the Thai government or I will see that. In that case you are 100 % right. If it´s logic, though? That´s a hard nut to crack. You see it as logical that many people would make an inter-provincial trip just for getting the hold of and drink alcohol? Seriously? Were you not talking about that all this, according to you, was to see as an action that was not related to alcoholism? I strongly remember that you where on me for using that expression too much. Yeah, I actually believe you mentioned it was boring and totally wrong. So, you do not think that an inter-provincial trip out of the reason people can not get a hold of alcohol in their home province is a clear sign of alcoholism? In that case I suggest you research about the meaning of the word, and how far people generally are allowed to go before they fall in that box.

The reason for the ban is simple. It has nothing to do with people drinking in their homes or not. It has to do with that many people will also break the rules and get together and break the rules. It´s not as easy as you say to just go after all of them, due to that they will have hard to find all. Therefore some people that would have followed the rules, just have to get with the program and make a sacrifice for the safety of all. In other words suffer for irresponsible persons presumed behaviour. That is nothing specific here, it happens with many things for many people all over the world. Really? A ten to 30 day ban can´t be that bad.

Never said that all that likes to drink alcohol is an alcoholic? If so point it out, or stop blaming me for things I not post. I have been saying that it looks and, to me, is an alcoholic behaviour to stock pile an non-necessary product that has no benefits for the human body. Actually it is proven to have negative effects. I also like to drink a beer now and then, sometimes much more than one. I also drink shots, straights and drinks as well as a good bottle of wine. I would never fall as low, and embarrass my dignity to my own person to run stock pile just for a 10-30 day ban of sale.

I am not sad at all. I actually have a wonderful life with my family here in Thailand, during the pandemic. We have more time for each other and finding new jokes as well as new stuff to do everyday. Also, even if many will be, my businesses is not dead. They are blooming, so I have a lot to do there too. With that said, I also always find the time to sit down for a beer or a good whiskey. That alcohol is an unnecessary product is not my belief. Why are you lying and twisting the discussion creating false information? It´s scientifically proven that alcohol is a non-essential and a not necessary product for the human population. You say that it´s not for others. Yeah ok, then we are there again. If alcohol becomes a necessity or a necessary product for a person, then that person is to fall under the classification alcoholist. You just can´t get away from that. All you do is digging yourself deeper in a seemingly bottomless pit for you.

The world history has clearly taught us, you cannot contain or curb people's desires. For sure people will travel to provinces that don't ban the sale during certain hours, that is a given if they have half the chance. In fact someone already suggested doing just that a few posts above yours. And no, it does not mean they are alcoholic. It just means they want to drink alcohol, and they are prepared to drive a little bit further to get it. Nothing more and nothing less. You are in no position to determine wether people that drive a bit further to obtain a few bottles of beers fall into the alcoholism bracket. 

It is just a sign of bad policy that hasn't been tought through at all. Or in other words, utter stupididty. 

For the rest of your drivel, I am not digging myself into anything. I still maintain, that the sale of alcohol will do nothing to curb the virus. And it seems the vast majority of countries seems to agree with me, as in almost no other countries did they include banning of alcohol into the covid-19 related measures. I guess the Thai and you know better right ? Get off your high horse please, that was exactly what the sad remark was referring too. But alas, didn't even understood that.

As to the reason for the ban, you completely fail to see the logic once again, alcohol is not the reason that people break the rules and get together, and even if it was, the logic and efficient approach would be to punish those that break those rules, not punish everyone else. 

Let't ban cars, because some people might break the law and go over the speed limit. It's the exact same moronic reasoning. 

19 hours ago, Matzzon said:

You will stand for the ridiculous part all by your own! We were discussing necessities, right? Eating is necessary, right? Drinking alcohol is not, right? You see how ridiculous your comment was now?

Why would you have a reason to believe that the reported deaths and hospitalized infection cases are fake? Then they will probably be that in more countries too.

You ask for relevant evidence that banning alcohol sales will have a curbing effect on spreading the virus. As well as you have no evidence that it wont, I have of course not any evidence you ask for. However, I have the experience of, and knowledge of Thai people and how they are sharing alcohol and gathering together at those times. That as well as the knowledge of how hard it is to change the rooted behaviour and traditions regarding Thai people, will be taken in as a proof of a higher risk factor with easy access to alcohol. You are the one throwing that logic out of the window. Scary? Not really, but still the reality.

You do not need to mention that you use air. You already mentioned the word countries, which means more than one. I suppose you will not drive across all different borders or walk to work then. I guess hitch hiking will also be out of the question. Sorry, I just took for granted you used airplane.

Yes, alcoholism! If people need to stock pile and rush to the shops and supermarkets for getting enough alcohol, then that will be close to the definition of alcoholism. Going buying a few beers as usual and then wait out the ban, would be a more mature and sensible way of behaviour. Not panic and run to the shop to make sure they are not empty. That´s a clear sign of the feel of need, which also is a clear sign of problem controlling the intake of alcohol which is the start of what is the definition of alcoholism.

 

This whole thread is a big joke, of desperate people that can´t stand the reality of being without alcohol for a couple of days, weeks or month. I am just sad to see humanity deteriorating in such a moronic fashion. Just see too that you have enough in the lockers now. I will not discuss this no more, due to it´s low level of discussing a totally unnecessary product. Cheers!

No, you were talking about necessities. I still maintain that banning alcohol sale does nothing to curb the spread of the virus. In fact since not all provinces have the same rules, it might trigger intra-provincial travel, which might even have a negative effect. But I guess logic is something both you and the Thai government don't see, or refuse to see. 

It is typical Thai, ban the sale of alochol because of drunk driving, instead of actually get the people that do drink and drive. The same here, instead of applying the law, and curb people socializing with or without alcohol, one bans the sale of alcohol, so that no-one, not even people that have every intention to consume alcohol in the privacy of their own homes, can buy it. And then you are surpised many people take issue with this ? 

Why are you surpised people are stockpiling it, in some provinces, the ban is for weeks. To call these people alcoholics quite clearly proves you are confused. Not everyone that likes to drink alcohol is an alcoholic, 

As to a totally uneccessary product, for you it might be, for many others it will not be. Classic how your own believes need to be applied to the rest of us. So incredibly selfish and childish. The world would be a much better place when people stop shoving their beliefs down everyones throat. Live and let live, but I supposed that is just a bridge too far right ? So sad you must be.

1 hour ago, Matzzon said:

Never said that I am against people that wants to drink alcohol in their own homes. What I am talking about is the big thing people make about an alcohol ban.The hords that go stockpiling. Alcohol is not a necessity, but these people and all that complains on this forum and everywhere else is making it look like that.

You say the spread of infection in west can have many reasons, but after that you are sure alcohol have nothing to do with it. Yep, Great Mr Doctor! You know as well as me that Thai people buy booze and get together drinking it. When available nothing can stop that. This is their country and the ban is mostly for their own citizens. However, as a foreigner you have to got with the flow and it can´t be as bad and horrible as so many try to make it. If so, there must be an urge, people are dependant on alcohol or pure alcoholism.

 

Have the fact that people were sent home maximised a spread and have you heard of overcrowded hospitals because of that? No you have not, so they have still taken much better care in Thailand than governments in most other countries. Prove me wrong instead of just empty talk.

I congratulate you, to not have to be in Thailand at this pressing time where you would have to run to the shops and supermarkets just to get the fix for some time. There is no curfew and you can drink alcohol. Great, but I am pretty sure you have more infected people in the hospitals and more deaths, right? Also nice for you to have a work that might make you have the need to travel by air and visit other countries at a time like that. You sound so proud over that they need you and you can make a difference, and you should be. Just hope that you do not have to travel to any of the most infected parts of any country because of your much needed work.

I should spare you the <deleted>, and it´s important to limit and contain the spread of the virus. Yes, there we agree! Eureka!

Anything else in the last paragraph included with the last sentence, is only words to promote the need of a non-necessary product.

 

 

They also eat together, should we ban the sale of food as well. It doesn't get any more ridicolous then this, are you for real ?

you are basing your "taking care" at numbers, numbers that are just that, numbers, the context of those numbers is something you neglect. It is obvious that in crowded areas with a high density of people, the number of infections and deaths are... higher. Hardly rocket science. It's mere logic. Not to mention that this government, is a continuation of a government that rose to power by means of an illegal coup, can we really trust those numbers ? Are deaths that are contributed to the virus not swept under the carpet here ? Do you have any evidence that the numbers are genuine and can be trusted, as considering the source, I have every reason to believe they cannot be trusted. 

Apart from all of that, can you provide relevant evidence that the banning the sale of alcohol has any noticeable effect on the spread of the virus ? You cannot and that is precisely the point. Is that really so hard to understand ? When people shop for "necessary products" they are smart enough to buy those "unecessary products" at the same time, therfore not having any influence on the risk of contracting the virus in the first place. But I get it, you need to vent some steam, by doing so, throwing logic completely out of the window. Scary stuff.

As to my work, I never claimed I am using air, and it's again hardly rocket science, if one observes the social distancing rules, one can be fairly sure not be infecteded or infecting others.

As to your rant about alcoholismn, absolutely crazy, people wanting to drink a few beers, or a few glasses of booze, in the comfort of their own homes are not alcoholist, they are humans. What's the point of all of this if we get a world where pleasure is being curbed, we might as well just die. 

2 hours ago, J Town said:

Just taking issue with this part of your post. Respectfully disagree. There would be people that would violate isolation if under the influence. If just stopping that one idiot saves my life, then I will drink to that (from the safety of my condo in absolute isolation).

If you don't break the cerfew, you can't be infected is the logical conclusion...

7 hours ago, Matzzon said:

The thing here is that you refuse to understand that the government is treating you in the right way. It seems like your urge to drink alcohol gets the upper hand on your judgement.

Yes, there is a curfew, and over 1 000 persons have been breaking it already and will have to stand trial for that. Many of those cases also related to gathering, party and alcohol. Where is minimal now?

 

You have to understand that you have to sacrifice, for others health and wellbeing, as well as a lower amount of deaths. If you look at the numbers of cases, infected and deaths in the western world, your can see where the idiotic part in your discussion is. Thailand has been taking good care of containing the spread of the virus. Maybe you think it´s hard measures, but apparently it is working. Be happy for that. You see how it looks where as you chose to say "governments use their brains".

 

Drinking alcohol often leads to poor decisions made be a large amount of people. One of those can be partying, gathering and breaking the curfew. No apparently there is no fixing stupid, when people can not understand that they have to sacrifice a little to win more. Realize that you are talking about alcohol. A thing that is absolutely unnecessary and have no benefit for anyone. In other words, you are behaving like a child and crying over something totally insignificant. Good job!

 

At last you are repeating yourself. Why didn´t you go back to stay in your home country when it was still time if that is so much better? The answer is very simple, right? You feel safer in Thailand! Then just accept the rules and abide by them until this is over. Then you can get your, as it sounds on you, fix of alcohol again.

My urge to drink alcohol ? Wow  1000 people breached the curfew, out of 68 million, Nowhere was it stated that alcohol was the main reason for those people breaking the curfew. But hey, you can't let people drink a little alcohol out of the comfort of their own homes, the idea !

As to the much higher infection rate in the west, could have several reasons, much higher density of people, better testing, you name it. Banning alcohol has nothing to do with all of this of course, which was the exact point I am trying to make. Why make it even harder for people with no scientific reason whatsoever ? 

This is a government that just three weeks ago, let thousands and thousands of people go back to the provinces, effectively ensuring the virus would spread to the rest of the country. It seems you are completely confused by your remark how good the Thai government has been taking care of containing the spread of the virus. 

Luckily I am not in Thailand, I am in the west, where I can actually drink alcohol, where there is no curfew, and where even in countries where there is a more rigorous regime, I can still enter, because my profession is deemed critical, so I can travel to do my work.

Spare me the <deleted>, yes it is important to break the spread of the virus. But there must be a way to do it without causing more problems than the virus actually is capable of doing. And especially in countries like Thailand, where there is no social security to speak off, the longer this will take, the more non virus death will happen, people have to eat and drink to survive. 

In any case, banning alcohol does nothing to stop the spread of the virus. 

16 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, with your post you confirm that the government should treat people like children. Not pay taxes, tit for tat. Really childish comment. ????
 

You have never considered that alcohol does two things with people:

• Make them do stupid things and gives the feeling of being invincible (Not a good combination together with a virus outbreak and a curfew)
• Lower peoples health, immunity and defense system (Not a good combination together with a virus outbreak and a curfew)

I sincerely hope that puts your feeling of being treated like a child, into a more realistic perspective.

No, not really of course. A childish and absolutely unnecessary measure like this indeed warrents a tit for Tat, if the government refuses to treat me in the right way, why would it expect me to not treat them in the exact same way ? It is hardly rocket science. 

There already is a curfew, so the chance that people are acting stupidily outside of their own homes is minimal.

The government needs to understand that it asks a great sacrifice from their citizens, and that these sacrifices are not exactly enshrined in the law (quite the opposite). it is therefore idiotic to ban the sale of alcohol, and typcially it is not done anywhere in the west. There governments actually use their brains. 

The ban on alcohol sale does absolutely nothing to curb the spread of the virus, and has the potential to achieve the opposite effect, you cannot fix stupid. 

And yes, I put the feeling being treated as a child into perspective, maybe if governments the world over put a little bit of trust in people actually observing social distancing, the economic shutdown of whole societies for that extra 5% security would not be needed. But hey panic was never a good way to make decisions....

4 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Yes, it´s probably going to hurt many expats in Thailand. It might even improve their health. God forbid! How horrible and cruel.

It hurts everyone, nobody likes to be treated as children, and selling alcohol or not has no influence whatsoever on the spread of the virus. The curfew would be more than enough. Sick and tired of governments treating people like little children. And sick and tired of people actually applauding this ! Maybe if the government treats us as children, we refrain from paying any taxes ? Tit for tat.

39 minutes ago, Virt said:

There is a slight increase of countries recommending that it's best to wear a mask if sick or not, but i still have to see a solid study that actually shows it helps.

I understand that if you have symptoms a mask will somewhat prevent you from spreading it because it's not airborne, and i understand that in some asian countries prior to covid 19 it's common to use a mask if sick.

 

How about a proper study that actually shows if they work or not, instead of each country following their advice of their so called experts.

Plenty of experts all ready proved wrong during this outbreak, so lets get some facts instead of this "lets spin the bottle"

There is another problem, back in the west there is a shortage of masks, and rightfully the masks should be reserved to people that are actually working in hospitals coming into direct contact with people that actually have the disease, the rest should practice social distancing, which would already be effective to a large degree.

18 minutes ago, Almer said:

All governments will know that social trouble is only a stones throw away, The people of the Los are rightfully questioning this as it appears under control, it might pay   the thai government to run some clips of what is happening in the rest of the world, like, this is what it could be like, if there were 500/600 a day passing maybe just maybe they would be taking more  notice.

Well, I am quite worried about Thailand, I mean some of those western countries can sing it out for some time (by throwing massive amounts of money around) but I am scared about the ability of the Thai government to do the same. Then it might be that the real killer isn't the virus, but other reasons.

28 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Yes there is a reason. They won't and don't do it. Case in point the last batch from Korea.

 

Thais no matter rich or poor think the law is for everyone else to follow. The fact that they couldn't at least go with the police and then after testing and maybe a day or so plead their case. Just proves it again.

 

No one respects the law and it starts at the highest levels of government.

So what you are basically saying is that these people (whom I presume, you don't even know) do not have the discipline to self quarantine, and therefore these measures are needed ?

I disagree, also because to even have been allowed on the plane, they had to hand over a covid-19 free certificate, no older than 76 hours, as the requirements to even get on the plane into Thailand dictated. 

Nothing worse than a government treating their citizens as children. No wonder these people were angry.

50 minutes ago, swbaggies said:

many countries are making it punishable to disobey these type of rules. 

 

As someone said if this was the Philippines they probably would have been shot. 

 

In the UK you will be fined for disobeying the orders without reason. People are going to prison for coughing on people and telling them they have the virus. 

 

You do realise that there are more new cases everyday don't you? So whilst they may have benefited from doing it earlier they are doing it now to stop future cases. 

 

Its proactive as well as reactive. If those big words go over your head this may help. 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/

 

 

Yes I am not an idiot. I do take exception at people being treated like criminals just because they arrived from abroad. the Thai authorities have handled this badly. There is no reason why these people couldn't be left in self isolation in their own homes like many other countries are doing. But no, they were forced to go to a government facility, quite frankly a bad move and not necessary at all. But I do get it, let's just all call these people everything under the sun. After all people that are afraid and in panic, often don't actually use their better judgement. 

8 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Crawl back in your hole, life will go on as it has. This isn't going away any time soon, so give it a rest. Accept what you apparently can not. It wont change what's happening all over the world.

there aren't many countries that are issuing arrest warrants for people that were suddenly forced to go into quarantine in another place as their own home. Pray tell, why the urgency now ? Why not two months ago, when it could actually have made a difference. I suspect this remark will go right over your head...

3 hours ago, SkyFax said:

According to the BP as of 7 AM 5APR20, of the 152 out of 158 who absconded from the airport, 134 had turned themselves in to relevant authorities and arrest warrants have been issued for the 18 at-large.

Arrest warrants, the world has gone raving mad. Unbelieveable being arrested for suspicion of having a virus. Most likely none of them even contracted the virus. What a difference two weeks make hey ?

I know someone will complain, but whatever you say, this is way over the top. Illogical panic. 

Just now, liddelljohn said:

Another humiliation for the Thai Government  ,, seriously they should have  just arrested any of those passangers  who refused isolation in Sattahip   and thrown them into a normal prison ,,that would be a reality check for the selfish  prima donnas

 

I would like to see them do just that, after all, there is panic apparently. No reason to follow the law, no reason to adhere to basic human rights. Throw all of that out of the window. The prima donnas are the fear mongers. 

Yeah, let's just hunt down people like dangerous criminals. For crying out loud, have people all lost their minds ?

22 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

No, because these idiots are endangering a lot of people by their selfish actions and delaying the end of the emergency.  It's no different than if they went out there with guns or knives, except that they could kill more people with the virus.

If you really believe that to be true, I guess further discussion is useless. Maybe just re-read and really think about what you just said. As I said, crazy and scary. 

Since a cerfew is already in place, they would not endangering a lot of people. Whenever is taking exception at being deprived of freedom without due process or reason being selfish ?

4 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

Actually, yes, such a certificate is required. BUT: Arriving on a plane of whose passengers three proved to have a high fever automatically invalidated that certificate and everybody on the plane became subject to the obligatory 14 days of quarantine. So, in this instance the health authorities at the airport acted correctly for once. Just because one has a certificate doesn't mean one has become immune to the virus.

 

Nevertheless, things got really messed up. Firstly, you just don't let 3 feverish passengers "disappear into the crowds". And secondly, for the sake of everybody, you don't let the remaining passengers dictate to you how and where they should be quarantined. 

Sure, a virus let's completely throw civil rights out of the window. The panic really clouds the judgement here. Self quarantine in their own homes would have been more then sufficient. But no, the government wanted to put these people in some sort of forced quarantine away from their own homes. Do not blame the passengers, they were absolutely right. Panic and sheer angst could never be a reason to suspend basic human rights. They could and should have handled this better. 

1 minute ago, emptypockets said:

I guess one good thing about all of this is that Governments will make their decisions not based on internet forum opinion.

Sure, many of those governments don't make their decision based on extensive testing either, because with all of our might, we seem to be unable to do just that, with the exception of South Korea.

Just now, emptypockets said:

Where is the irony?

Who said isolation will make the virus go away? Not me.

The purpose of isolation is to slow the spread of the infection to give the medical community a fighting chance to save lives and not allow the system to be overloaded to the extent that we have seen in Italy, Iran and now Spain.

Read some of the things Italian doctors have been saying about having to decide who lives and who dies when a decision is made about who gets to go on the ventilator.

Yes, and no-one can escape this. The point is simple, slowing the spread of the virus is logical, but allowing just a very tiny percentage of the population to get infected will eventually ensure the cycle will repeat. It is a combination that is the answer.