Arun Mai

I don't plan on retiring just yet, but I agree that it is frustrating. Essentially I can't retire as long as this process is ongoing. My file was sent to the MOI in July 2022 and I am still waiting for THE interview. Still, I tend to put it out of my mind and every now and again I come back to check to see if there have been any developments. Happy for @Marcati. Congratulations.

Nothing new, alas. My application was submitted (paid the 5,000 baht fee) in October 2021. I had my NIA interview in March 2022 and my file was sent to MOI in July 2022. Since then nothing. I am prepared for the long-haul. As I have PR already it doesn't make a lot of difference to me at this point in time so I'll just wait. One day I expect to receive notification out of the blue, just as with PR.

rsska..... I think this post from Arkady resolves the mystery. I think you only submit what you have from the list. In my case I have a Thai driving licence whereas I don't have a pink ID card.

Yes, I think that is very likely also.

My docs went to MOI on 1st July 2022. Maybe we're on the same list?

It seems the link doesn't work well. When I click it it takes me to the post shown in the image file. With respect to the driving licence, I don't recall the specifics, but what I can say is that it certainly wasn't one of the essential documents for my application. Good luck at the Embassy with your documents.

You say 'driver's license (Arun Mai reports being asked for this here - I only have an American license)'. I must confess, I don't recall remarking about being required to present my driving licence, which isn't to say that I didn't or that I wasn't. Unfortunately the link doesn't pinpoint the post to which you are referring. If you can pinpoint the post, I'd be happy to comment.

But will that always be the case? During covid, restrictions were imposed on retirees such that many effectively couldn't leave Thailand without jeopardising their rights in Thailand principally because many were unable to obtain health insurance coverage of sufficient value.

I have read with interest the various comments made by naturalised Thais of the injustices they have faced notwithstanding their changed legal status as Thai nationals. My application is still winding its way through the system and it is unlikely to reach a conclusions for at least a year or more. I have been a permanent resident for over 6 years. One of the frustrations of being a permanent resident is that the status seems to be viewed more as a favour than an entitlement; one is accorded no special rights as a permanent resident other than the 'right of abode'. Owning land is still restricted as is the right to work, etc., etc. More to the point, Thais in general have been led to expect that all foreigners in Thailand need to have some sort of a visa. During the pandemic when the country was essentially closed to international travel, I did not renew my Non-Quota Immigrant Visa, of course - why would I, unless I wanted to travel? One time when I checked into a hotel in the south the staff took a long time to search every blank page of my previously unused passport looking for a visa, to no avail needless to say. The major benefit that comes of being a permanent resident is that it deprives the immigration department of discretionary powers as to whether or not to renew your visa annually, as far as I can see. It is also preparatory for applying for citizenship unless one is married to a Thai. I think when one is going to contemplate the injustices that naturalised Thais face living in Thailand it is important to also consider the manifold benefits that come of being granted Thai nationality. It may, therefore, be of value for me to recount one of my most recent frustrations as a Thai PR. I have been looking at interest rates on bank deposits. Most commercial banks in Thailand have 'high' interest accounts to attract and retain customers. As far as I can see, almost all banks have some such offering. Siam Commerical Bank's offering is available to foreigners also, although the high interest rate is only available on the first one million baht. I have enquired of about three or four other banks that similarly offer higher interest rate accounts. They all restrict such accounts only to Thais and upon enquiry they explicitly exclude PRs too, although not naturalised Thais. We can all probably think of occasions when 'foreigners' have been discriminated against in the various countries of our formative years and it would be naive to imagine that discrimination doesn't show up everywhere in some form. It is a very human condition after all. So, in summary, it seems to me that the benefits of naturalising as Thai far out way any 'minor' frustrations that may come along with it.

Actually, my renounciation letter dated 2-Nov-21 issued by the British Embassy was written in English. The SB case officer asked us to provide a Thai translation, which we prepared internally (at our office), which was perfectly acceptable to SB - no special treatment with notaries or anything else. The same is true of the certified true copy of my passport.

Do bother trying to deliver the letters to the British Embassy, they're not interested in them. Just apply for: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#supporting-letter-for-thai-nationality-application And also apply for a certified true copy of your passport from the embassy too.

Just a quick update. I had my NIA interview this morning, so it's still fresh in memory. The lady intervieing me was charming, as Thais are culturally predisosed towards being in my experience. Nothing difficult about the interview. The standard sort of questions about family, work, interests, why I would like to become Thai, how long I've been here, what brought me here originally. She also asked me about my views on covid, how many vaccinations I have received and whether I had side-effects. She was also interested in whether I indended to change my name if I am granted citizenship. She was curious, on a personal note she said, to know the rules and whether or not it is obligorty to change one's name upon successfully being granted Thai nationality. I informed her that it is no longer obligatory to do so. All the sort of questions one might expect perhaps. The interview lasted about 45 minutes and was conducted exclusively in Thai and on a LineApp video call. I installed the Line App on my computer so I could sit comfortably during the interview. The lady conducting it informed me that after this my file goes back to the SB.

She is indeed at the NIA. So I am now just awaiting the interview appointment. Presumably there is a second interview at MOI much later in the process, is that so?

That's a good question, thank you for asking it. No, I am not sure that she isn't from the NIA. I shall ask my PA to call her in a day or two to check that the documents already submitted are all in order and to ask her which office she's from.

????

Thank you for your input too. Alas, I'm not famous, hopefully not infamous either, but certainly not famous, so I guess I'll just have to wait. I think my NIA interview should be more or less within 3 months of submitting the remaining outstanding documents which was some weeks after my interview and finger printing (which was done twice). Thanks for the insights regarding the delays between the NIA interview and the file going to the MOI.

Thanks for your input.

Thank you for your input yankee99. Yes, I shall certainly provide her with the documents she's requesting, to do otherwise would be churlish, but I just thought it was a bit odd when I've already provided almost all documents already. I was curious to know how common my experience was. My original contact is still at SB. We called him to check that it was appropriate to be dealing with this new individual who contacted me out of the blue, although I was expecting to hear something around about now as it's been 3 months since I submitted the last document requested at the outset. Is the process of sending documents to the NIA a milestone along the way to approval?

Is this a common experience? I submitted my application to SB on the basis of PR and paid the fee towards the end of last year. I submitted the remaining documents requested (name reservation +++) in December last year. I was contacted by a new officer on Saturday, a lady with whom I had not previously been in communication, requesting more documents ahead of fixing an interview (with whom I don't know). She said the interview would last no more than 1 hour by video call. Anyhow, the list of documents she is requesting is broadly the same ones that I already submitted at the point of making my original application (there were one or two additional documents asked for - drivers licence and birth certificate). I pointed out to her that I had already submitted all of these documents last year to SB. She said the document had been sent to the National Intelligence Agency. At first I didn't really understand what she was asking for. It seems she wants me to submit copies of more or less the same set of documents that I already submitted to SB which may either be submitted by Line app, email, or post. Upon receipt of the said documents she would then arrange for my interview. Is this common? Has this happened to other applicants? Thank for the input in advance.

I'm in no position to answer that question. What is clear is that part of the process of applying for naturalisation in Thailand is to express an intention to renounce one's existing nationality upon successfully obtaining Thai nationality. I'm not sure what that means for people with, say, two different nationalities, for example. I do know of Americans who have renounced their American citizenship when they have had second or even third nationalities, although that was primarily because of the onerous American tax system. Ultimately, nationality is a legal status conditional on the laws of any given sovereign state. In my opinion, for very many people their nationality forms an integral part of their identity, wheras in reality nationality is nothing more than a social construct. Personally, I gave up BEING British long ago, although that doesn't alter my legal status as British. As for visas, I understand that it was at least once possible to have one's Thai passport endorsed to indicate that the bearer had the right of abode in the UK so that no visa was required to enter the UK on such a Thais passport. Whether or not that is still possible, I have no idea.

I don't check in to this forum that often so I've only just seen this. With respect to the five letters I was given, two were for Chaeng Wattana and they have been dealt with. I have two corresponding letters back from CW. My understanding is that these are in connection with proving my PR status. One letter for the Amphur is for a name clearance - I have to choose a Thai name although I'm not required to adopt it. I shall attend to that this week. That leaves the two letters for the Embassy. Having spoken to the British Embassy and considered their reply (not interested, don't bring them to us, we don't want them), I decided to open them. They were only sealed with a small piece of tape anyway. One letter was requesting documentation to the effect that I had expressed an intention to renounce my British citizenship upon successfully obtaining Thai citizenship. The other letter, however, was a request for verification that my passport is genuine. I have already received the 'intention' letter back from the British Embassy. For the 'verification' letter I understand that I need to obtain a certified true copy of my British Passport. That costs GBP25 and if one wants to do it in person it takes several days before one can book an appointment. I have an appointment later this month to do that. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand#services-we-provide-in-thailand. Good luck

So, the two letters to the embassy comprise of one which seeks to verify my passport is authentic and the other is in connection with expressing my intention to renounce my British citizenship once I have successfully obtained Thai citizenship. I understand that both of these points are addressed under the Thai nationality support letter: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/926913/Application_pack_-_Thai_Nationality_supporting_letter.pdf

Indeed, I'm not unsympathetic towards the embassy. Receiving letters requires filing systems, archiving and eventually destruction of the documents after a prescribed period of time has elapsed. The embassy doesn't need nor does it want the overhead associated with such a burdensome process. Furthermore, as all these costs must get passed on to the users of the various services, I don't want to pay for it either.

Correct, two of the letters are, as I understand it, to verify my PR status. I'm not anticipating any issues arising in respect of them. Though quite why they have to issue two letters to each of Immigration and my Embassy is beyond me. In common with many Thai government departments, their processes are quite anachronistic.

Thank you for your input ubonjoe. Indeed, I also imagine that one of the letters is in respect of a statement of intention to rescind my British nationality, although as they are sealed I haven't opened them and I can't be sure of the content. I'm confident that I won't have any issues with the three letters addressed to Thai agencies. The British Embassy appears on the face of it to be problematic as they have indicated that they won't even receive the letters. Subject to any input from another friend of mine who has been through this process a few years ago, I think I shall just apply for the Thai nationality support letter and keep the letters. I can't see any other way of approaching it to be candid.